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 Coyote81 wrote:
I'm not saying you have to have it now, but having nothing that represents the BA uniqueness is really not a BA army is it?

No chapter but BA (and its successors, of course) can take inferno pistols.

Or perhaps you didn't know enough about BA to know that?

Looked like a BA list to me; I don't think I've seen a vanilla list with a Sang. Priest. Also has assault marines, transports, flame/melta. Looks plenty fluffy to me. I didn't realize there was such a pissing match amongst the fan base over what constitutes "real" Blood Angels. No wonder so many people complain that GW can't figure out the chapter's identity; the fanbase has multiple ideas of what their theme and identity should be. Glad I'm not writing the book.

 Melissia wrote:

 Coyote81 wrote:
I'm not saying you have to have it now, but having nothing that represents the BA uniqueness is really not a BA army is it?

No chapter but BA (and its successors, of course) can take inferno pistols.

Or perhaps you didn't know enough about BA to know that?

That is like bringing an army of devestators and a single bike captain. It's a White Scars army. I brought a single bike, yea White Scars!

Stop nit picking the little things d look big picture. Example: What do you think of when you think of Dark Angels? Space Wolves?

Angst and Vikings, respectively

Bremon wrote:
Looked like a BA list to me; I don't think I've seen a vanilla list with a Sang. Priest. Also has assault marines, transports, flame/melta. Looks plenty fluffy to me. I didn't realize there was such a pissing match amongst the fan base over what constitutes "real" Blood Angels. No wonder so many people complain that GW can't figure out the chapter's identity; the fanbase has multiple ideas of what their theme and identity should be. Glad I'm not writing the book.

Anytime you get a group of people together there will always be those who wish to express their purity to the cause. Thus in their own mind making them better than the rest of the rabble.

 Coyote81 wrote:
Stop nit picking the little things d look big picture.

Funny, that's what I'm saying about you. All you're doing is furiously picking nits trying to belittle people for not playing the game how you want. That list is perfectly fine for BA. You can whine all you want about how they're not playing BA the way you want them to, doesn't change that the lore of the game supports them playing differently. And ultimately, that's all I give a damn about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another "basic" BA list I've been mulling about.


Captain w/Combiflamer, Power Sword
Sanguinary Priest w/Chainsword, Combiflamer
Tac Squad w/Heavy Flamer, Combiflamer
Tac Squad w/Heavy Flamer, Combiflamer
Tac Squad w/Heavy Flamer, Combiflamer
Dev Squad w/Lascannons, Armorium Cherub
Razorback w/Assault Cannons
Razorback w/Assault Cannons
Razorback w/Assault Cannons
Razorback w/Lascannons

For 1k points; six lascannons for anti-tank/monstrous creature duty that give seven shots turn one (and thus 2 shots made at 2+ turn one, three at 3+), six assault cannons, three heavy flamers, five combiflamers, and assaulting at S5 after the flamer/rapid burst due to the priest while rerolling 1s Four drops for deployment. Plenty of room for expansion off of this, making it, I feel, a good starting point for a new BA player, though converting/buying all those combiflamers might be annoying.

 Coyote81 wrote:


FYI http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Knights_of_Blood

...I just commented it wasn't very BA-like, you can play them that way, it's fine, I was only offended when you tried to act like your way is the way BA truly are, even though history and lore say otherwise.

Sweet, thanks for that link. I decided to use my computer to look at it instead of my phone, that sight always has crap tons of pop-ups on my phone and runs like crap. But even then, it still doesn't say that they are always crazed, all the time. Yes, they love them some close combat, and tend to lose themselves in the heat of battle, but they are still loyalists who use tactics and not Khorne Berzerkers. The way the army is built still does match the way the Knights of Blood would operate: small squads due to their depleted numbers, using a lot short ranged weaponry and transports to get close with the enemy, their Sanguinary Priest and Chaplain leading the charge to work them into a fervor, Dreadnoughts charging in while using Melta weaponry and fists (instead of Lascannon and Missile Launcher). Even I use Devastators, the Knights of Blood still need to use that thing called tactics to support a charge into the heart of the enemy with covering fire.

And, I never said that my way was the only way that Blood Angels truly are, I was talking about that there are many ways to run Blood Angels (who are intelligent Space Marines, that while loving close combat, will still bring the tools required to complete the job) besides spamming Baal Predators, Jump Pack marines and Death Company.

Indeed. That's the important distinction for Blood Angels. Yes, they're bloodthirsty due to the Red Thirst and the oncoming Black Rate... but they cling to loyalty and to the Codex Astartes to fight this corruption off.

Now that this identity crisis of what makes BA BA has passed...

How have people used Sanguinary Guard this edition?

Thinking of picking up a box for Elites for Tale of Many Gamers (don't think my 1k list had elites).

Banner, 2 Swords, 1 Axe and 1 PF? All with Angelus Boltguns I presume?

If all the non-exclusive BA unit options "weren't BA" they wouldn't be in the book to begin with. Red Devastators with blue helmets, to me, is one of the most BA things in the book. That they monitor new inductees for weakness as Devastators seems fluffy and is a reason to include devs; they're rookies and the chapter is nearly decimated; there's likely going to be a large influx of new blood.

No one harasses any UM list that doesn't include Centurions or Thunderfire cannon or other things that not every chapter has access to, so I don't see why we should nitpick. We have a few different tools in our toolbox; just because we have a bigger hammer that happens to be red doesn't mean we should use it to try to turn screws.

Melissia, that flamer/razor rush list looks like it could steamroll up a flank pretty consistently, and has plenty of troops and mobility for grabbing objectives. I could see that sort of template being what my modest force grows into.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Banner, 2 Swords, 1 Axe and 1 PF? All with Angelus Boltguns I presume?

I haven't. IDK, I just feel death company are more useful for cost, and easier to convert to boot (you can convert boltgun BA tacs in to DC by putting some sheathed chainswords or power swords at their hips, bam, you now have a unit of pretty damn good assaulters)

Bremon wrote:
Melissia, that flamer/razor rush list looks like it could steamroll up a flank pretty consistently, and has plenty of troops and mobility for grabbing objectives. I could see that sort of template being what my modest force grows into.

Amusingly enough, it's inspired by how I would play sisters of battle in previous editions. Only instead of exorcist, it's devs and an LC razor, and instead of immolators with twin flamers, it's the far superior twin assault cannon razors. And instead of dying to assault, they're actually decent at it. You'd want to assault after blasting away with the flamers, taking advantage of that S5 against orks or marines.

I use my Sanguinary Guard together with the Death Company. The DC are shock troops and the SG are character/monster killers. The DC screen the SG and punch through the enemy lines. Then the SG can then attack the auras. Combined with a Chaplain and a Librarian it is a very powerful force that can handle most problems. I go against traditional wisdom and deploy them late to get the best choice of setting up on the table or deep striking. The rest of the army is a mobile fire base.

SG will get their angelus buffed for sure, atm i would say PP + AXES/FISTS with lord of war archivist.

 Frozocrone wrote:
How have people used Sanguinary Guard this edition?

Thinking of picking up a box for Elites for Tale of Many Gamers (don't think my 1k list had elites).

Banner, 2 Swords, 1 Axe and 1 PF? All with Angelus Boltguns I presume?

SG are in a bit of an awkward spot right due to the Angelus being priced at a truly ludicrous 9 points. I honestly cannot see how they justify that price when a Storm bolter is only 2 points. Anyway the practical upshot of that is that it is currently best to arm SG entirely with plasma pistols as these are only 7 points making them 2 points cheaper than ABGs and a lot deadlier since they can be fired in CC. Inferno pistols are also heavily overpriced so do not bother at the moment.

SG also get to reroll any misses when they are close to the Warlord which means you can overcharge them for minimal risk as long as your Warlord is there to hold their hands. Best Warlord to accompany them is probably the Sanguinor as his +1A buff works very well on a squad with lots of expensive weapons and he is also an awesome beatstick. SG do not need the rerolls provided by Dante or a Captain as they get their own anyway.

The next best character for SG is a Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack. He can patch up wounded models and gives the whole squad +1S which is a really nice boost. If you are feeling lucky, he can even try and resurrect dead SG. He only needs to roll a 4+ twice in a game to make his points back, and that is before the buffs he brings.

Lastly, if you have slots, a Sanguinary Ancient (banner bearer) is a nice option. Rerolling 1s to wound helps and ignoring Morale is nice but less important on small elite units like SG.

So for accompanying characters my choice would be:

1. Sanguinor
2. Sanguinary Priest
3, Sanguinary Ancient (banner bearer)

For CCWs, that depends on whether you have a priest with the squad. You see on the new to wound chart for 8th edition, S5 is a bit of a sweet spot. It provides and effective +1 to wound against T4 and T5 models (most of the infantry you are likely to encounter in the game) and also just manages to wound T8 stuff like Knights and Land Raiders on a 5+ instead of a 6. For this reason, you want to get your squad to S5 if you can but the benefits of going to S6 are much smaller due to the fact that there are not too many T6 models in regular use and it gives no benefit against T7 which is where the majority of vehicles and MCs sit.

If you have a Sanguinary Priest in the squad to give a +1S bubble then I would equip the squad with Glaives. If you do not have a Priest, I would go with all Axes. A power fist may come in handy for dealing with tough targets but it is even more important for the squad to hug the Warlord in this case for rerolls since he will only be hitting on a 4+

This may all change when our codex drops though. Even if Chapter approved gives us access to 12 point power fists like other Codex chapters, they will be a better choice than Encarmine weapons as long as you have a reroll.

I'm still kinda sold on death company even after reading htat. Sang Guard do look a bit better in my eyes now, though.

Actually, I wonder if death company will get lightning claws. With a chap and priest, they'd get 4 S5 AP-2 attacks on the charge, with rerollable to-hit and to-wound, which sounds fairly impressive against MEQ (they'd average 10.535 MEQ kills per five-man squad on the charge, enough to kill any T4 squad-- including five-man intercessor squads-- in one charge, and put some serious hurt on even against TEQ). Against GEQ you'd not need to add the priest, and you'd get 15 kills on the charge.

Though I guess vanvets can kinda do that with claws, just not as good as they don't get +1 to attacks on the charge. Could give them the BA librarian buff though to get a similar result.

DC with lightning claws has been my wet dream since I started playing this army 3 years ago

Bremon wrote:
Are heavy bolter sponsons worth it on a standard predator? Seems like the sort of dakka marines can get multiple other places. I'm leaning towards getting some "start collecting" boxes and Razorbacks, then swapping assault cannon to the Razors and twin lascannon to the Predator. Seems more economical than buying Crusader sprues. Is autocannon generally preferred with its consistent damage? I'll also have to get some sponson lascannons if heavy bolters are mediocre..

I wouldn't say Autocannon is preferred, but I've used both and I kinda like it better with Lascannon sponsons. Gives me a bit more flexibility and the auto 3 damage is really solid.

I appreciate the tips, my next add on from the Dark Imperium set will be a dreadnought and predator I think. Lascannons likely my choice but autocannon may yet happen in the future. So far, in my limited number of games, the Intercessors provide a fairly reasonable amount of dakka. The Inceptors die fairly quickly, and I hate the flying stick on the minis so I'll likely be ditching them soon.

When I initially came back to the idea of BA I really didn't realize how many units in the vanilla book the BA miss out on; I don't remember the discrepancy being as large back in 3rd. It's nice for the purpose of making them different but when our unique stuff is so mediocre at the moment it hurts. Lack of a Ven Dread seems especially glaring, and the Furioso is embarrassing compared to an Ironclad.

Blood Angels seem to have had a poor showing at NOVA

I switched from White Scars too as I love Jump Infantry too much...

Still, can't say I'm surprised, Codexes get cream of the crop and the winning list was Conscripts, some other good AM stuff and Celestine + good stuff Imperium

Hello fellow Angels,

Thought I would pop this in here.

I find myself having an army that has baal + 2 standard preds, 2 rhinos and a big flying thing.

I also have three marines on bikes from the last box set (so they are Dark Angels I think, whatever, they have silly looking wings on the back). I'm minded to cut the wings off, paint them red and put a few claw like things sticking up from the back of the marine and play them as tech marines on bikes.

Anyone had much experience of running tech marines in games, do they die too soon, or can they keep a vehicle firing a turn or two more?

Cheers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh, yes.. forgot to mention, 4 Razorbacks too..

Would include a Techmarine or two for a Vehicle Heavy list.

I haven't used one myself (I much prefer Jump Infantry hence Blood Angels over White Scars).

But as an Ork player in addition to BA, my Big Meks and Meks have been crucial in keeping my Dread Mob alive. I can't see why it would be different for SM lists.

I'm going to try a techmarine on a bike for a vehicle heavy list in the future. Here are my thoughts : https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/738338.page

I think tech marines can be good if you have enough vehicles, have your reroll auras taken care of, and need a cheap HQ. Otherwise, healing a couple wounds on a vehicle each turn really doesn't seem that helpful to me. Most of the time my vehicles just die, or barely get hurt at all, so i can't think of many times i wish i had a tech marine.

 gkos wrote:

Anyone had much experience of running tech marines in games, do they die too soon, or can they keep a vehicle firing a turn or two more?

It depends more on the type of vehicles than the number of them. Each wound repaired on a Rhino is worth 7 points. Each wound repaired on a Land Raider is worth >20 points. My feeling is a Techmarine is only of value if he is patching up a vehicle worth around 200 points upwards. As for survival, the Techmarine is a Character and so cannot be targeted if he is standing behind the vehicles he is repairing.

A techmarine can do much more than just repair vehicles.

Sit a techmarine with conversion beamer near a couple quadlas preds and he can help them destroy the enemy's anti-tank. It's an extra eight points, but frankly it's more useful than the servo-arm if the techpriest is sitting back and repairing.

Well, my terminators performed pretty well today. Two wins, not bad all things considered. I hope BA gets their reduction in price soon...

 Melissia wrote:
Well, my terminators performed pretty well today. Two wins, not bad all things considered. I hope BA gets their reduction in price soon...

I hope a lot of the BA specific equipment gets a price drop soon. A lot of it feels very overcosted. Has anybody heard any rumors on when our Codex might drop?

One thing I have noticed, is that my Knights of Blood perform much better in objective based games versus Killpoint games. Has anybody else had that experience?

Haven't heard a thing. Likely we'll get a drop early next year is my guess.

I found an interesting topic on another site (don't know if I can post the link in here) where there's a guy who collected all the battle report he found concerning blood angels: 74 matches played and just 16 wins. Overall not even 25% win rate xD. I compared this result with my poor 2-11 record and I'm doing even worse. I will probably wait until the release of the codex and if I'm not happy with it I'll just change army. I'm sick of loosing