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Made in de
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot




Stuttgart

Wow, I really dig the new Shaltari and Scourge walkers
   
Made in ca
Rebel_Princess




Austin, TX

Owen Roberts mate, you havin' a stroke or something? Because jesus tapdancing christ, this is a new low for a company already known for their terrible writing. You sound like an Ali-Express knockoff company.

From the Scourge box description:



Edit: Bonus, 2021 leaked versions of the Jackal and Dingo, for comparison's sake



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/03/10 14:12:53


 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







Space magic repair cement! Love it

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

Those are some attractive sets. The heavy armor groups are more my jam, but for a decent savings, each of these will end up on my list.


Someday.

   
Made in gb
Gavin Thorpe




Yeah, these are, uh...
Not great.

The quality of the text is worth a rant in of itself. Let's just leave it as "the writer needs a second pair of eyes to read these over before publishing" and leave it there. Yikes.

Onto the actual rules:
UCM transitioning from the utilitarian straight-man of the setting into spraying ACME-branded miracle cement is certainly interesting. There are a lot of questions here: who thought that building repairs were a missing gameplay niche, who thought that paying 30pts per unit was a good price to do so, and who thought that UCM of all people should be the ones to do it?
The Jackal continues the trend of units designed to fight infantry in scenarios that don't exist and is thus never going to see play. 50pts is a silly price and I don't know why it fills a Heavy slot. These feel more like they are here to fill a release slot and continue the DZC arms race rather than being serious designs and can join the Flail on the pile of joke units.

Scourge get a 6" laser weapon and a device to summon bees. Rolling D6 hits per unit under the template to fish for 6s isn't particularly engaging. I also want to point out that any claim of the box being usable on its own are clearly wrong unless you plan to walk from your board edge to within 6" of the enemy.

PHR get the Luna which should never have been released at this price point and its incredibly obvious to anyone who's ever played the game. This unit is obnoxious. It is Erebus-levels of broken. Congratulations to PHR who are once again blessed with a unit so OP that it will ostracise anyone using it, even in good faith. God help you if you want to use multiple. We can enjoy some more months of requiring players to make a conscious decision not to ruin the game by spamming these in every competition.

Shaltari get some interesting ideas, executed badly. The new walkers are the only Shaltari armour not to have shields which I assume must be in error, but then I don't know if the Ev is a typo or deliberate. The Widow strikes me as totally inferior to the Tarantula despite existing in the same slot and at the same cost. The Recluse is genuinely interesting although I have concerns about stacking Ev and shield boosters into a brick playstyle that does not suit Shaltari at all. I do question if Shaltari really need 7 Standard options, especially since 2 of those feel far more appropriate as Supports.
On the other hand, the Zion is simply broken. As in, the rules don't work. What happens to the rest of the squad if I teleport one unit away? What happens if they are holding an objective? Why do Shaltari need a tool to hit and run without any return fire being possible? This needs a longer text to explain the edge cases, or standardisation.

Finally, Resistance get the Atilla. This thing feels very fragile for 30pts and the gun option feels useless. Unloading a hovercraft full of clamps has some meme value but it's very kamikaze and a similar niche to the Bomb Bus.

I feel like this release is continuing a downward spiral for a setting that I am very invested in and that a lot of these issues were avoidable with just a bit more care.
I also dislike the trend of FOC slots becoming meaningless, with weird niche units popping into Standard slots being a real bugbear. It's not unique to this release but it's certainly becoming more widespread.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/12 12:40:46


WarOne wrote:
At the very peak of his power, Mat Ward stood at the top echelons of the GW hierarchy, second only to Satan in terms of personal power within the company.
 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

FYI:

TTCombat wrote:Event miniatures are going live tomorrow! This includes the PHR Aristaeus Hellion and the other 32mm Commander Universe miniatures.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

The 32mm miniatures vary quite a bit in size. The Hellion looks okay next to historical minis, for example, while the resistance dude is massive even next to GW minis.

   
Made in us
Rebel_Princess




Austin, TX

Dave talks about Dropnoun - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLLfEPl1Zdk

But most importantly, v3 may finally happen and save this game.

Sky here. Effectively I have been asked to collect data and feedback on all versions of the rules, and fan addendums as well. As such, I am trying to facilitate as much as possible by putting the different versions of rulesets I was asked to focus on out there for the community. Hence the addendum to 2.0, and also the 1.5 Beta. Other folks addendums and homebrew stuff is good for testing too, I just need feedback and testing info to be clear and balanced so I can put it all together for review at an unspecified time later in the year. Part of this is awkward because there is no NDA, just a pre collection of feedback and testing before we (Dave himself) go to outlining the next step, and we then test that a little before we probably make an big change. That and I don't want any of this to seem like it in any way invalidates the current rules, but just helps determine what the DZC community loves and doesn't.

So to be safe and not take away TTC's ownership In deciding when to make official announcements, we stay unofficial, but with a very official purpose and reporting to the source of our dropverse. Probably enough careful and vague word salad lol"

"Effectively do a lot of pros and cons of the different elements of the systems. As per Dave, it is a lot harder to get info on what is good than it is to get info on what is bad. Also, specific breakdown would be good; as in show what happens when there aren't open transports, vs. when there is, and how that impacts the objective game and AA usage. Whatever feedback you out together just email it to gophermafia@gmail.com and I'll keep compiling it all. No amount is to little to be appreciated, but for the sake of completion we need some empirical examples not just lists of complaints. And again, we need the good things too! Now, there is an indeterminate amount of time for all this, but you'll know we are getting close to the end of me compiling when I start putting out polls for questions I want more data and feedback on. Hope that helps, we are all in this together!"

So, by request of Dave/TTC, but being done by Gopher.


   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

NEW RELEASES!
The PHR, Shaltari, & Resistance all have new Space Stations available to pre-order today in the TTCombat website!
The PHR Small Space Station can be built as either the Orbital Picket or Orbital Outpost. Armed with Neutron Missiles, the Picket is best suited to close action combat whilst the Outpost's Triple Supernova Laser will Burnthrough enemies ships with ease.
Always leading the technological races, the Shaltaris new small Space Stations can be built as either the Gatestation or Grav Hook. Whilst the Gatestation has the benefit of Voidgates, the Grav Hook will prove difficult to tackle.
Finally, the Resistance has engineered a pair of new Medium Space Stations. The Grand Station is heavily armed with a Heavy Vent Cannon and a pair of Mass Driver Turrets. Whilst not as heavily armed, the Astrobotanical Outpost retains the Vent Cannon but offers a 'Signature Bloom' you'll want to exploit.
These products are available now:
https://ttcombat.com/collections/dropfleet-commander










Automatically Appended Next Post:
Those Resistance ones look far too much like ships...

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/04/07 11:16:57


 
   
Made in ca
Rebel_Princess




Austin, TX

Resistance is a whiff, but the Shaltari and PHR ones are fine. Like I get the concept of 'converted ship', but it doesn't look converted enough.

I'd have much rather seen a Resistance upgrade pack to add to the plastic station kit. They need to look like space Kowloon, and despite it trying, that model just doesn't go far enough.

Shame the station rules, like the general ones not specific stats, suck balls.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/07 14:16:08


 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

Monorail! Monorail! Monorail!

All aboard the Monorail! A popular form of transport from the Human worlds and a common sight among city streets, in past times citizens used these vehicles as a part of their daily lives. Now they're being employed by the various factions found in the Commander Universe.
The Monorail will be shuttling onto the TTCombat website this Friday:
https://ttcombat.com/


   
Made in ca
Rebel_Princess




Austin, TX

Am I crazy, or did they break their scenery when setting up the monorail for that shot? Look at the snapped off fence, the unpainted breaks where the posts were in the ground, the broken posts around the base of the pylon.

And I can't tell what the hell is going on with the bottom of the pylon on the far left. It looks like bad photoshop, or AI correction gone bad?
   
Made in us
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





Affton, MO. USA

slyphic wrote:
Am I crazy, or did they break their scenery when setting up the monorail for that shot? Look at the snapped off fence, the unpainted breaks where the posts were in the ground, the broken posts around the base of the pylon.

And I can't tell what the hell is going on with the bottom of the pylon on the far left. It looks like bad photoshop, or AI correction gone bad?


Of course the scenary broke, this is the first showing of DropRail, The new expansion where you drop your monorails on an unsuspecting city to relieve street congestion for those more populated warzones.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

Isn’t that a rerelease of the old monorail kit they had put before the acquisition…?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Civilian one yes.

Military one is new.
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

From FB:
The Spider Drone is a tiny four-legged walker, the like of which is not seen in the employ of any other race. Operating far from Scourge lines, Spider Drones are a terrifying sight for any enemy and are now no longer restricted to 10mm wargames!


(There's a video on FB but it won't link...)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/19 11:26:32


 
   
Made in ca
Rebel_Princess




Austin, TX

Apparently TT shutdown all non-FB interaction. Weird to go all only-advertise-to-the-existing-player-base-on-closed-platforms but it's probably not even the dumbest thing they've done this week.

   
Made in de
Servoarm Flailing Magos




Germany

slyphic wrote:
Apparently TT shutdown all non-FB interaction. Weird to go all only-advertise-to-the-existing-player-base-on-closed-platforms but it's probably not even the dumbest thing they've done this week.



With what they're putting online this year it might be a boon to their enterprise if the lowest possible number of people actually saw it... they seem to have blown out all engines and are in terminal descent, just like the creators had lost all interest in it and was just letting it all crash and burn.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

slyphic wrote:
Apparently TT shutdown all non-FB interaction. Weird to go all only-advertise-to-the-existing-player-base-on-closed-platforms but it's probably not even the dumbest thing they've done this week.



Last time I saw a firm do that kind of thing it was PP shutting down most of their forum (they kept it alive but gutted most of the sections/content and mods). It - it did not help growth!

Now granted perhaps TT haven't got someone on staff who is 100% dedicated to social media management so perhaps some of their other channels were simply being used randomly or being forgotten all the time. So it could be a move to simply consolidate to make the workflow easier and then perhaps expand out again if they can get staff time to make sure things are managed properly.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Using Object Source Lighting







Tsagualsa wrote:
slyphic wrote:
Apparently TT shutdown all non-FB interaction. Weird to go all only-advertise-to-the-existing-player-base-on-closed-platforms but it's probably not even the dumbest thing they've done this week.



With what they're putting online this year it might be a boon to their enterprise if the lowest possible number of people actually saw it... they seem to have blown out all engines and are in terminal descent, just like the creators had lost all interest in it and was just letting it all crash and burn.


Have not followed but what is going on?
TT is mostly a MDF company that Purchased some games, Carnevale and Dcommander and has the rumbleslam. Is all that underperforming?

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I'd argue both Dropfleet and Commander are underperforming compared to where they should be considering that for quite a while now they've had zero active competition in their respective markets.

There isn't a single space fleet game on the market right now. Firestorm Armada is dead in the water and whilst it is coming back its slow; meanwhile Battlefleet Gothic is no where to be seen.
The only others are niche games that have been around for decades or that open fleet one that has rules but no real formal product line and is mostly supported by random fleets and 3D printing stuff and such.


DF Commander is likewise basically alone in its market right now.


Considering both had mature product lines and a firm behind them and all they really should have done a lot more.
I just feel that both games should have capitalised far more on the market situation than they have and seem to have stalled in some way/form even though they've kept getting additions and such.




A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in ca
Rebel_Princess




Austin, TX

 NAVARRO wrote:
Is all that underperforming?

Can't speak to Carnevale or Rumbleslam, but Dropzone and Dropfleet are doing terrible. And it mostly seems to be due to lack of effort.

As was stated, they have no functional competitors in their genre. None. They should be expanding like mad if the product managers had two brain cells to rub together.

But as we learned from the drama they started with that kickstarter base dude, the owners of TT are really, I mean reeeeeally, dumb and bad at business. And as the old adage goes, dumb people hire even dumber people to work for them so they don't feel as stupid.

Dave Lewis has to feel miserable having to kowtow to the two clowns that own TT. Seeing them squander opportunities left and right for 4+ freaking years now. They've come out the other side of the pandemic with lower engagement than when the game was literally dead and you couldn't buy models! That's insane.

They had 2, T W O, total people sign up for the Dropzone Tournament at Adepticon. And I guaran-godamned-tee you half the reason they've gone 100% FB is because it's really easy to silence criticism (and the mods are gleefully happy to do so) so they don't have to hear how thorough and terrible a job they've done with the game. Two People.

Just two.

   
Made in gb
Using Object Source Lighting







Maybe the market after Xwing explosion is not demanding for more? That would explain the lack of competition and not too much investment on DC.

I think we are currently at a very strange point in the industry where the typical/old companies and way of selling products seems to be shifting.

   
Made in de
Servoarm Flailing Magos




Germany

 NAVARRO wrote:
Tsagualsa wrote:
slyphic wrote:
Apparently TT shutdown all non-FB interaction. Weird to go all only-advertise-to-the-existing-player-base-on-closed-platforms but it's probably not even the dumbest thing they've done this week.



With what they're putting online this year it might be a boon to their enterprise if the lowest possible number of people actually saw it... they seem to have blown out all engines and are in terminal descent, just like the creators had lost all interest in it and was just letting it all crash and burn.


Have not followed but what is going on?
TT is mostly a MDF company that Purchased some games, Carnevale and Dcommander and has the rumbleslam. Is all that underperforming?


People noticed an extreme drop in quality of promotional material they put out - photographs of new models suddenly looked sub-tabletop-standard, miniatures were apparently sprayed with decayed spraypaint to the point it looked like a bad 3d print or re-painting after an unsuccesful attempt to strip an old paintjob, there were rules/pdfs with glaring errors, runaway sentences, half-sentences missing etc., last week there was a promo shot with bad photoshop artifacts and what looked like they slammed the thing they were promoting so hard into terrain that you could see broken parts etc... not at all a good look.

IIRC the main creator has talked about having mental health issues in the past, i sincerely hope that they are well and it's not related to that!
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I think the only major market shift is that smaller firms are more able to direct sell to customers than in the past because of the internet.

Otherwise if you've got setup with production workflows it doesn't really matter if you're making them with injection moulding, casting or 3D printing - your method of production doesn't matter so long as you can produce them at a rate the buying market wants and get them into shiny boxes and into peoples hands.

The fully 3D print market is strange and tricky nad hasn't found its feet yet. Pandemic era and the Patreon model created a bonkers race to the bottom for the value of an STL and the volume of output is honestly insane. It's a very niche market with an insane load of product after only 3 or so functional years and customers who have been in that market for that length of time can easily own very big collections and burn-out. Once you've got 5 armies and 50 dragons you hit a point where you really don't need more.

At which point its more about loyalty and supporting a creator and that fizzles quite easily for many people.



So I'd argue the way of selling products is still very much the same. Successful games want products mass produced and directly sold in hand because the vast market is still buying physical models. And most of that market doesn't really care how its made, just as long as its high quality.
Meanwhile GW spent so long and so much pushing "the hobby" as a market element that the "its all mostly if not fully built" 3D print angle isn't a huge issue over models you have to build yourself*


Honestly I can agree its more that TT have not managed what assets they've got in the right way to leverage the massive market potential they've got. They got handed a market with open hands - GW pulled out of Epic ages ago and BFG as well; Spartan Games imploded also.

The Drop series of games had high grade models; great paintwork; solid systems and should have had a field day with the whole market to themsleves and the only mature game with marketing, products, production and established name.




*if anything I'd argue 3D printing doesn't do enough parting and smart parting with models for better print quality

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in ca
Rebel_Princess




Austin, TX

 NAVARRO wrote:
Maybe the market after Xwing explosion is not demanding for more? That would explain the lack of competition and not too much investment on DC.

Nope, the opposite! X-Wing/Armada players were literally clamoring for a replacement game by a better company after they got moved to Atomic Mass Games. And Dropfleet saw a few waves of mass player migration as whole groups tried the game. They just haven't kept many of them because of all the lack of effort I mentioned.

It's worth noting, those players mostly didn't go back to X-Wing, they dispersed and moved on to entirely different games.

It's not enough to just be the only player in the market, or to have stock or new models released. A successful game absolutely has to be well written, well published, and supported by the publisher.

And TT just isn't good enough to do that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/19 15:29:49


 
   
Made in gb
Using Object Source Lighting







I see I see thank you guys for keeping me up to speed since I totally lost track of the game and minis. I remember when this game landed for the first time at Salute and it was a huge show stopper, probably the best new range reveal at the time but it was mostly a one man show. It got almost like a huge community support.
After a few years the game was sold to TT since creator felt overwhelmed but he assured that he would still be helping in the background etc.

This is where I lost track and covid happened.

I just find it really strange that all competition vanished and TT not doing a good job ( almost like its a range supported only with the bare minimums).
I will take a peek this Saturday at Salute to see what they are doing with it.

I just hope its one very specific case of poor handling rather than something else, like market interest actually shrinking for this type of game.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Yeah I recall when these models appeared and they really blew everyone away; then they also moved to a hard plastic pretty early on as well and retained high quality.

They did a lot of the right things early on. I know the kickstarter they ran for it hit trouble in that it overloaded the creator if I recall right and they branched out to getting help from TT. Which honestly made a lot of sense - small operations do sometimes need investment/outside help and TT had the bonus of established income from other sources. So in theory they'd get the support and investment and grow.


And then it just -- didn't.


I can't help but feel one aspect is that they never did rules or market heavily as a stright space fighting game; but even so it really should have grown.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in ca
Rebel_Princess




Austin, TX

 NAVARRO wrote:
I just find it really strange that all competition vanished and TT not doing a good job ...
I just hope its one very specific case of poor handling rather than something else

Realized I was vagueposting. I wrote up the drama TT got into, because it was amusing to me. I don't think anyone that reads those receipts can come to any conclusion other than TT is owned and operated by idiots.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/540/789169.page#11402472

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/570/789169.page#11422720

There may or may not be market segment shrinkage, but I'm abso-posi-lutely sure TTCombat is to be blamed first and foremost.
   
Made in gb
Using Object Source Lighting







Oooooh thats right! It was actually TT against Justin thing and also remember now they also got Warmill MDFs ( I wonder if they got them just to close competition?)

Yikes lots of weird vibes there. Justin was always great to work with, so I do have good memories of those times and a shame he had to close shop.

Seems like there are a lot of issues we dont know about here. The game had all that it needed to be quite successful, good design good quality and everyone was onboard since day one. Hopefully they will pick up the slack.



   
 
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