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 ClockworkZion wrote:

I'm hoping they'll put her in the Start Collecting box at minimum. It's annoying that we have a Canoness whose wargear was unique to that kit but then she's unavailable.

Then again Games Workshop never did release that power fist Primaris captain to the wider audience so I probably shouldn't complain too much.

At least converting with plastics is much easier.

I made a plasma/fist captain out of the Bladeguard box. Not sure what the bits situation is in the Sister’s range, but you should be able to make something work for the canoness.

 Nevelon wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

I'm hoping they'll put her in the Start Collecting box at minimum. It's annoying that we have a Canoness whose wargear was unique to that kit but then she's unavailable.

Then again Games Workshop never did release that power fist Primaris captain to the wider audience so I probably shouldn't complain too much.

At least converting with plastics is much easier.

I made a plasma/fist captain out of the Bladeguard box. Not sure what the bits situation is in the Sister’s range, but you should be able to make something work for the canoness.

True, it is easy. I just hate unique models with special wargear combos not being released to the general public but getting codex entries.

All the major order convictions are shown on today's WarCom article: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/04/faithful-serenity-pure-rage-or-just-plain-ol-fire-pick-the-holy-order-thats-perfect-for-your-adepta-sororitas/

Seems quite nice improvements across all orders to me. I'm pleased with what I'm seeing. Only thing I will miss is the Ebon Chalice full hits stratagem for flamers. I really like that they can pick 2 sacred rites though.

Surprised bloody rose wasn't affected more. Pistol ap lost and +1 to wound stratagem nerfed a bit though not a lot.

No big changes for me. Playing will be faster with loss of 6+++ for non-mw's

Just a slight nerf for Bloody Rose, but the loss of +1 To Wound is a massive nerf to BR Repentia. I can see why they got a point reduction.

On the other hand, the other orders are looking more attractive, although Valorous Heart was nerfed also. Funny that they stole part of Ebon Chalice's conviction from the 8th Edition codex.

Argent Shroud looks possibly most improved, full counts as stationary now and a reroll - run and gun a multi melta on every unit. Looking good that Bloody Rose/Valorous Heart are not quite auto picks.

 alextroy wrote:
Just a slight nerf for Bloody Rose, but the loss of +1 To Wound is a massive nerf to BR Repentia. I can see why they got a point reduction.

On the other hand, the other orders are looking more attractive, although Valorous Heart was nerfed also. Funny that they stole part of Ebon Chalice's conviction from the 8th Edition codex.

Bloody Rose and Valorous Heart where the auto-pick options to the point that they were almost always seen in lists, even when said lists was primary another order (I recall a podcast ep about an OoOML army that was half Bloody Rose for example). A lot of good rules clarifications, and slight tweaks all around. GW did good on these.

For VH, reducing AP-2 by 1 even when not in Imagifier range at least partially makes up for losing the 6+++. Makes for faster games too.

SR still trash tho...

 alextroy wrote:
Just a slight nerf for Bloody Rose, but the loss of +1 To Wound is a massive nerf to BR Repentia. I can see why they got a point reduction.

On the other hand, the other orders are looking more attractive, although Valorous Heart was nerfed also. Funny that they stole part of Ebon Chalice's conviction from the 8th Edition codex.

I’m annoyed that we lose bloody rose having enhanced seraphim when lockdown means I never actually got to play a game with them. Two bolt pistols is kind of a joke on their own after all.

Asmodai wrote:For VH, reducing AP-2 by 1 even when not in Imagifier range at least partially makes up for losing the 6+++. Makes for faster games too.

Agreed. It's cleaner, it's arguably better since you don't need to sprinkle Imagifiers around to get a benefit against AP-2, and generally I am all for faster games.

Lammia wrote:SR still trash tho...

I'd say it's better. It traded a no longer relevant Overwatch mechanic for a 50% more Miracle dice per game, and their Stratagem was changed to all ranged weapon attacks in the shooting phase instead of bolt weapons in the shooting or overwatch phase.


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changemod wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Just a slight nerf for Bloody Rose, but the loss of +1 To Wound is a massive nerf to BR Repentia. I can see why they got a point reduction.

On the other hand, the other orders are looking more attractive, although Valorous Heart was nerfed also. Funny that they stole part of Ebon Chalice's conviction from the 8th Edition codex.

I’m annoyed that we lose bloody rose having enhanced seraphim when lockdown means I never actually got to play a game with them. Two bolt pistols is kind of a joke on their own after all.

As someone who played Seraphim for years without any kind of order bonuses, you can still do a decent amount of damage with weight of dice with them, but they'll probably get more out of other armies now like Sacred Rose who can give their shooting exploding 6s to hit.

 alextroy wrote:
Just a slight nerf for Bloody Rose, but the loss of +1 To Wound is a massive nerf to BR Repentia. I can see why they got a point reduction.

On the other hand, the other orders are looking more attractive, although Valorous Heart was nerfed also. Funny that they stole part of Ebon Chalice's conviction from the 8th Edition codex.

You sure? Vs t8 they would do 9 wounds with 24 attacks. Now 8. Not that massive nerf.

Also heaven forbid us if that's their justification for point reduction,

tneva82 wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Just a slight nerf for Bloody Rose, but the loss of +1 To Wound is a massive nerf to BR Repentia. I can see why they got a point reduction.

On the other hand, the other orders are looking more attractive, although Valorous Heart was nerfed also. Funny that they stole part of Ebon Chalice's conviction from the 8th Edition codex.

You sure? Vs t8 they would do 9 wounds with 24 attacks. Now 8. Not that massive nerf.

Also heaven forbid us if that's their justification for point reduction,

I suspect they're not going to be Core limiting the units that can buff them to just the Repentia Superior.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Asmodai wrote:For VH, reducing AP-2 by 1 even when not in Imagifier range at least partially makes up for losing the 6+++. Makes for faster games too.

Agreed. It's cleaner, it's arguably better since you don't need to sprinkle Imagifiers around to get a benefit against AP-2, and generally I am all for faster games.

I’m gonna miss threatening the Sisters’ player with Snipers though.

I feel like a shoe hasn't dropped thanks to incomplete info. Bloody Rose is vaguely intact, and other Orders look better, meaning I expect Repentia and/or Retributor nerfs to break their viability.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I feel like a shoe hasn't dropped thanks to incomplete info. Bloody Rose is vaguely intact, and other Orders look better, meaning I expect Repentia and/or Retributor nerfs to break their viability.

As I mentioned a couple posts ago, I assume Repentia won't be Core.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I feel like a shoe hasn't dropped thanks to incomplete info. Bloody Rose is vaguely intact, and other Orders look better, meaning I expect Repentia and/or Retributor nerfs to break their viability.

As I mentioned a couple posts ago, I assume Repentia won't be Core.

I'm expecting the priest changes to kick them.

Also, I'm expect changes to Missionaries and Preachers that we haven't seen.

Repentia are good, but their usefulness has only gone backwards with each codex release

Martyrd lady nerfed...for some reason, valorous heart either modestly nerfed or massively nerfed depending on how tale of the stoic works now.

That nerf to bloody rose is actually massive. BR units are now essentially useless if they don't charge AND don't get the pistol bonus. Stratagem is significantly worse. Roughly a 5% nerf on anything that doesn't get rerolls. Warlord trait is still really bad but it was never the trait you used anyway.

Ebon chalice trait buffed (VERY slightly) at the expense of a significant nerf to their in built stratagem (3 mortal wounds and +4 inch range is NOT as good as guaranteeing 6 shots.)
Argent Shroud trait got better but its stratagem and warlord trait are still terrible. There's no version of reality where I want to be in combat with an argent shroud character, having a trait that gets me into combat faster with no damage buff at all is the exact opposite of what I want to do.

Sacred rose is still by far the worst trait but they have a very good stratagem. The WT is meh. Not many sisters units in a Sacred Rose list that are CORE are going to survive a turn in combat, so retreat and shoot will actually have very limited use.


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Lammia wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I feel like a shoe hasn't dropped thanks to incomplete info. Bloody Rose is vaguely intact, and other Orders look better, meaning I expect Repentia and/or Retributor nerfs to break their viability.

As I mentioned a couple posts ago, I assume Repentia won't be Core.

I'm expecting the priest changes to kick them.

Also, I'm expect changes to Missionaries and Preachers that we haven't seen.

Repentia are good, but their usefulness has only gone backwards with each codex release

Are you talking like codexes in general or SoB codexes? Because the last one was the first codex where they were useful. Also, core means very little for repentia. Assuming they still get some kind of offensive buff from repentia superiors, it's honestly only a couple of percent loss to take those instead of imagifiers or preachers

The bigger issue is that if they're nerfing Order of Our Martyrd Lady, a darkhorse pick at BEST, that sets the tone that EVERYTHING in the codex is being nerfed in some way or another. So far it's only been small nerfs but who knows what's lurking deeper into the book?

ERJAK wrote:
Martyrd lady nerfed...for some reason, valorous heart either modestly nerfed or massively nerfed depending on how tale of the stoic works now.

That nerf to bloody rose is actually massive. BR units are now essentially useless if they don't charge AND don't get the pistol bonus. Stratagem is significantly worse. Roughly a 5% nerf on anything that doesn't get rerolls. Warlord trait is still really bad but it was never the trait you used anyway.


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Lammia wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I feel like a shoe hasn't dropped thanks to incomplete info. Bloody Rose is vaguely intact, and other Orders look better, meaning I expect Repentia and/or Retributor nerfs to break their viability.

As I mentioned a couple posts ago, I assume Repentia won't be Core.

I'm expecting the priest changes to kick them.

Also, I'm expect changes to Missionaries and Preachers that we haven't seen.

Repentia are good, but their usefulness has only gone backwards with each codex release

Are you talking like codexes in general or SoB codexes? Because the last one was the first codex where they were useful. Also, core means very little for repentia. Assuming they still get some kind of offensive buff from repentia superiors, it's honestly only a couple of percent loss to take those instead of imagifiers or preachers.

The bigger issue is that if they're nerfing Order of Our Martyrd Lady, a darkhorse pick at BEST, that sets the tone that EVERYTHING in the codex is being nerfed in some way or another. So far it's only been small nerfs but who knows what's lurking deeper into the book?

9e codexes in general

changemod wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Just a slight nerf for Bloody Rose, but the loss of +1 To Wound is a massive nerf to BR Repentia. I can see why they got a point reduction.

On the other hand, the other orders are looking more attractive, although Valorous Heart was nerfed also. Funny that they stole part of Ebon Chalice's conviction from the 8th Edition codex.

I’m annoyed that we lose bloody rose having enhanced seraphim when lockdown means I never actually got to play a game with them. Two bolt pistols is kind of a joke on their own after all.

The bigger issue is the special weapons. Bolt pistols have always been almost completely useless, but now hand flamers are complete garbage (especially with the point bump) and inferno pistols can't instagib something 2+ or 3+ in cover anymore.

Martyred Lady was nerfed? You’re going to need to explain that to me. They seem pretty decent with side grades rather then nerfs.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Just a slight nerf for Bloody Rose, but the loss of +1 To Wound is a massive nerf to BR Repentia. I can see why they got a point reduction.

On the other hand, the other orders are looking more attractive, although Valorous Heart was nerfed also. Funny that they stole part of Ebon Chalice's conviction from the 8th Edition codex.

Bloody Rose and Valorous Heart where the auto-pick options to the point that they were almost always seen in lists, even when said lists was primary another order (I recall a podcast ep about an OoOML army that was half Bloody Rose for example). A lot of good rules clarifications, and slight tweaks all around. GW did good on these.

I mean...unless your goal was to win games.

The flexibility of choice between Orders is better, that's absolutely true. It comes at the cost of a significant drop in the ceiling of what the best orders can do, though. So yes, people who play argent shroud are going to win more games relative to people who play bloody rose, but NEITHER are going to win as many games as the bloody rose player was winning before.

Obviously other rule changes in the book can bump that ceiling back up to where it was (though outlook is suspect here) but considering the codex creep that's been going on it's probably not great that step 1 of the new book was to make the good stuff worse.

Yeah, they look better balanced mainly because they're all equally mediocre now. I don't think that's necessarily a problem, though. It'd be a nicely refreshing change if SoB ends up not being another DE or Ad Mech monstrosity of a book.

 alextroy wrote:
Martyred Lady was nerfed? You’re going to need to explain that to me. They seem pretty decent with side grades rather then nerfs.

OML loses the +1 bonus if you res back up to full. Honour the martyr is slightly better because it doesn't conflict with canoness rerolls anymore but it's still not a stratagem you're likely to use even across several games. The warlord trait doesn't matter. It's not as good as +1 miracle dice or +1 to invul save so the only way you'd use it is if the generic traits took nerfs, which would end up being a net nerf even though your consolation trait isn't bad.

It's not a huge nerf but it's definitely a downgrade.


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yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, they look better balanced mainly because they're all equally mediocre now. I don't think that's necessarily a problem, though. It'd be a nicely refreshing change if SoB ends up not being another DE or Ad Mech monstrosity of a book.

Translation: It would be good if they were bad.

Gotta tell ya, having had terrible codexes 4 out of the last 6, I'm kind of over Sisters not being good. Personally, I would have been perfectly content to stick with the old book forever.

ERJAK wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Just a slight nerf for Bloody Rose, but the loss of +1 To Wound is a massive nerf to BR Repentia. I can see why they got a point reduction.

On the other hand, the other orders are looking more attractive, although Valorous Heart was nerfed also. Funny that they stole part of Ebon Chalice's conviction from the 8th Edition codex.

Bloody Rose and Valorous Heart where the auto-pick options to the point that they were almost always seen in lists, even when said lists was primary another order (I recall a podcast ep about an OoOML army that was half Bloody Rose for example). A lot of good rules clarifications, and slight tweaks all around. GW did good on these.

I mean...unless your goal was to win games.

The flexibility of choice between Orders is better, that's absolutely true. It comes at the cost of a significant drop in the ceiling of what the best orders can do, though. So yes, people who play argent shroud are going to win more games relative to people who play bloody rose, but NEITHER are going to win as many games as the bloody rose player was winning before.

Obviously other rule changes in the book can bump that ceiling back up to where it was (though outlook is suspect here) but considering the codex creep that's been going on it's probably not great that step 1 of the new book was to make the good stuff worse.

Sisters of battle were top 1 army only superseeded by Drukhari. Of course they'll receive nerfs in their stronger stuff and buffs on the weaker, like marines. If they buffed the stronger Sister options they would become even more insane from what they really are.

For me just putting geminae back with Celestine has won me over this codex.

ERJAK wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, they look better balanced mainly because they're all equally mediocre now. I don't think that's necessarily a problem, though. It'd be a nicely refreshing change if SoB ends up not being another DE or Ad Mech monstrosity of a book.

Translation: It would be good if they were bad.

Might I suggest you apply for a translator job with GW? With skills like that...

I want a nice, balanced book that doesn't immediately ratchet up the codex creep yet another notch. If that's "bad" in your book, sigh me up, I guess.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, they look better balanced mainly because they're all equally mediocre now. I don't think that's necessarily a problem, though. It'd be a nicely refreshing change if SoB ends up not being another DE or Ad Mech monstrosity of a book.

I guess that can be refreshing, but in my meta it just means I should expect to lose games. :-p 40k in some communities is just a hellish arms race, so if Sisters get a decent book only, they go back on my shelf for a year.

Yeah no one wants their army to be 'okay'. They would like their army to be competitive and competitive does not mean 'okay". Drukhari were an outlier, though they have been swiftly adjusted. Outside of them (and whatever admech does), there were about 4-5 armies winning tournaments; sisters were one of those. They weren't winning all of them, but they were a top tier army. If they are nerfed, particularly after two armies have come out which are stronger than them (drukhari and admech), then they will be bumped down. Why would you want that if they are your army?

If their top tier (Bloody rose) is lowered and then other orders are brought up to that new lowered state...then they will be overall nerfed. Given that they aren't the top of the heap (drukhari/admech hold that) but are pretty even with the top tier armies...that's actually a perfectly reasonable place to want to stay. If they lose power they slip to middle of the pack and...who wants to be there?

Mind you, we don't have the whole picture. Too early to tell. But overall I think sisters are in a great place; they aren't horribly oppressive and they are really good. That's where you want your army to be.

yukishiro1 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, they look better balanced mainly because they're all equally mediocre now. I don't think that's necessarily a problem, though. It'd be a nicely refreshing change if SoB ends up not being another DE or Ad Mech monstrosity of a book.

Translation: It would be good if they were bad.

Might I suggest you apply for a translator job with GW? With skills like that...

I want a nice, balanced book that doesn't immediately ratchet up the codex creep yet another notch. If that's "bad" in your book, sigh me up, I guess.

Putting out bad books is just pushes codex creep from the top down instead of the bottom up. The OP books end up being EVEN MORE OP by comparison. You're essentially advocating for Admech and Drukhari to be the only competitive factions in the game for the forseeable future.


The most powerful book in a given era automatically becomes the baseline by which all books are judged. Books that are in parity with it are good, books that are weaker than it are bad. Drukhari are the most powerful book currently so the ideal is for all other books to go 'price-is-right' on it. (i.e. get as close to as good as that book as you can without ending up better.)

Books that go over that line are failures and represent powercreep(which is bad). Books that are significantly worse are trash(which is also bad). The old SoB book was close enough in power to post-nerf drukhari that it's considered a 'good book'. Reducing it's power level creates a bad book.

You're essentially advocating for Admech and Drukhari to be the only competitive factions in the game for the forseeable future.

The other way to see it is: it's easier to tone down 2 books than 2+N books (via FAQs, erratas, reprintings, index PDFs, etc)

So if Sisters is a fine book, but weak compared to those two, and that's a continuing trend across codices, there are ways to fix Admech and Drukhari without ramping up power for everything else.