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Made in dk
Fresh-Faced New User




Heya

So, I've been thinking about Forgeworld, GW and The Horus Heresy game. With the discontinuing of many of the legion upgrade kits, Rhino doors, Betrayel of Calth, Prospero Burns etc. Do you think they are considering an exit strategy from the game after the next book drops? Personally I hope this isn't true, but I can't stop looking at the reality of what GW is doing.

/Discuss

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




No. Ditching marines that are available in plastic is to be expected, box deals usually vanish eventually and removing doors is not the end of things. Last time they executed a game they hyped it up and made a huge campaign for it.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept




United Kingdom

No. The death of Alan Bligh and the re-launch of Specialist Games have caused some re-organisation, but that's it. They've previewed release coming over the next 3-4 months, and there're rumours about what's coming after that.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine





There's been a slow down but, no matter how the internet screeches, it's just had a small run of bad luck between the passing of Bligh, re-organisation for Specialist Games, resources allocated into 8th Edition 40k (at least for a few months after the games release), etc.

New stuff it coming, it's just not front and centre right now.

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Abel





Washington State

What everyone else has said. HH is not dead.

Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience  
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Southeastern PA, USA

Not dead, but not on the path it was either.

I think the real test will be what happens after Malevolence is released.

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Been Around the Block




 gorgon wrote:

I think the real test will be what happens after Malevolence is released.


Indeed it will be a true test.
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine




Seattle, WA

 gorgon wrote:
Not dead, but not on the path it was either.

I think the real test will be what happens after Malevolence is released.


It's not dead, but it's certainly in a vegetative state. All the models that are being released have been announced a long time ago. In our local area we went from 3 stores that consistently had 30k games to 1 store where there's a 30k game once every couple of weeks. The big local event that used to draw 20+ people had 5 people show up. I'm hoping that the pulls of items and the quiet regarding when Malevolence comes out is a sign that big changes are coming, but I worry that's it's just negligence.
   
Made in us
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





LA

MK II armor is no longer available in any form, and it's one of the 3 most distinct heresy armors. I would never consider starting a HH army without this armor available. It is featured heavily in betrayal/massacre and the early heresy. mk III is nonsense as it's just an up armored version of MK II that should only see use in assaults/siege and boarding actions.

I definitely think HH is in some trouble. But I don't think it's going anywhere for a couple years at least. I hope they consider doing more heresy stuff in plastic, and ditching the 7th edition rules in favor of 8th, or an entirely new ruleset altogether.

 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





Nottingham

I think it's in a hiatus that will end in its demise. Too long waiting for entries (i.e. Dorn) whilst previously unknown units have been shoehorned in, reduction in range, poor quality publications, 7th ed rules that didn't do enough to resolve some of the editions faults, lack of an affordable intro box now calth has gone, and a preference for the bigger primaris marines have all halted sales of a range that has seen a substantial drop in quality anyway. Given the position FW are in, they may well have been collapsed back into the main studio before too long anyway. I'd rather be wrong on this, but I can see it becoming just a couple more books and models (i.e. primarchs and Emperor) released as and when they are done, with no real momentum or coherency between them.

Have a look at my P&M blog - currently working on: Tempestus Scions/Primaris Howling Griffons

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Made in us
[DCM]
Potent Grey Knight Librarian





Fort Worth, TX

I feel like the death of Alan Bligh has left the Horus Heresy as a rudderless ship in becalmed waters without her captain.
Calth and Prospero are gone, making it costlier for new players to get into it. Inferno had...problems...with its rules, some of them still not fixed/clarified in the new FAQ. We've seen many kits get dropped, and while we can assume this is because they were redundant due to plastic versions, has Forgeworld bothered to really even confirm that themselves? They had a real opportunity to make their 7.5 edition rulebook really good by fixing problems, and possibly cherry-picking some of the best ideas from previous editions,...but they didn't. And, of course, there's the new prices...
Forgeworld really needs to come up with a plan and a roadmap, and share them with us to alleviate our fears and worries.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in dk
Fresh-Faced New User




Some great answers from you guys. I partially agree with most of you. Especially that FW feels like a leaderless mess at the minute. Honestly, and I will probably get some flak for this, the best way to keep the game moving would be to update all the rules to 8th once the last primarchs and legions get their rules. Reason being is that I think it will broaden the playerbase, even though I know a lot of people is invested in 7th edition, but in regards to new players, I think 8th is the way to go.

 
   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






HH lacks accessibility and price
All the people who play HH around here either have more money than sense, or parents footing the bill.
If I want the full rules, I gotta go buy 3 100$ books.
Why are the rules not available for cheap?

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Made in fi
Fixture of Dakka





Ummm...100$ books? Which are those?

Checking right now US prices 50$ for army list books, 62$ for rulebook, 86$ for combo pack of the marine legion books. And digital versions are from 29$ to 45$.

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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Made in dk
Fresh-Faced New User




tneva82 wrote:
Ummm...100$ books? Which are those?

Checking right now US prices 50$ for army list books, 62$ for rulebook, 86$ for combo pack of the marine legion books. And digital versions are from 29$ to 45$.


Even at that, it's expensive. I got the two red books which are now outdated, kinda hurts ones wallet.

 
   
Made in gb
Ferocious Blood Claw





Glasgow, Scotland

For what it's worth, I was at the Horus Heresy Campaign Weekend last weekend at Warhammer World and it was absolutely packed. I definitely encountered a player or two that wished they were just playing 8th, but for the most part everyone seemed really enthusiastic to be there and playing Heresy.

I can't speak to what ForgeWorld has planned for Heresy, but I don't think it's on the way out, only taking a backseat for a little while like Middle-earth did for a long, long time. The Middle-earth people kept their game alive in the community, and I suppose we will have to also.

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Made in fi
Fixture of Dakka





sempthegreat wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Ummm...100$ books? Which are those?

Checking right now US prices 50$ for army list books, 62$ for rulebook, 86$ for combo pack of the marine legion books. And digital versions are from 29$ to 45$.


Even at that, it's expensive. I got the two red books which are now outdated, kinda hurts ones wallet.


Whopping 10$ more for rulebook than codex for 40k is. Rulebook is whopping 2$ more expensive. It's not like 40k rules are cheap either. And in terms of production value FW books are generally better(and you need less to have complete game rules than 40k. How many codexes 40k has anyway? 19 + 2 coming in this year still as a minimum...That's soon 840$ to get all the 40k codexes.

(btw as far as "Calth&Prospero taken out! GW must be planning to shoot down HH completely". Well so is Imperial knights: Renegade. Does that mean GW is purging Imperial Knights from their product line? No it just means they got rid of discount box they usually do eventually. These were unusually long standing as it was. And with GW not producing all the contents on their own not surprising. Minimum orders could be rather large...)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/13 09:23:20


“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

~12200 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights
 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Southeastern PA, USA

As long as there are FW fanatics willing to buy things like Warlords, Thunderhawks and Mastodons...FW will keep kicking out more stuff for HH. However, I suspect that the future of HH will be about serving the fanatics and existing diehards...maintenance instead of growth. Their moves to cut armor types, certain Legion-specific gear, and the boxed games already point that way.

Like I said, what happens after Malevolence will be interesting. I think that some work had begun on it at the time of Mr. Bligh's passing. After they release it (after two years in development), will they really recommit resources to developing the *next* 300+ page coffee table book, given all the demands at the FW studio? They don't need to make black books to release rules for new models. They don't even need another black book to introduce Dark Angels. That could be done in a red book update.

Stay tuned.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/13 19:10:47


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Made in gb
Morphing Obliterator





I went on FW the have a good browse and window-shop, dreaming of the day I finally win the lottery and am able to actually buy anything... and was extremely saddened to see that there is now ONLY Raven Guard upgrade kits available (the proper ones with Legion-tailored torsos) and the MK II armour (one of the best-looking) - and I'm sure a bunch of other stuff that I can't remember - are just... gone.

RIP the HH, I guess...

Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
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Made in gb
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine





The hyperbole from some of you is unreal. The only way HH will 'die' is if you keep saying it's 'dead'.

 
   
Made in pl
Been Around the Block




 BroodSpawn wrote:
The hyperbole from some of you is unreal. The only way HH will 'die' is if you keep saying it's 'dead'.


Morale of the players is quite low.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine





Morale of a subset of them on the internet is low for whatever new reason this time, and people like to complain on the internet.

But the Heresy train is still going on: Heck FW just put a tank up for SA this week, they've regularly released models over the last few months (Scoria and Krole are good examples of that), have previewed a couple of large pieces as well as the BA specific Leviathan in recent memory (over the last month iirc). A couple of discount bundles going that are likely to be replaced/repackaged into a more normal starting box and parts that weren't selling going LCTB doesn't mean the Heresy is dying or dead. It's just currently back in the same place it was before the 2nd big plastic push.

 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





Nottingham

@broodspawn it isn't just about them releasing things, it's the lack of logic behind those releases. Yes SA have had a couple of tanks recently, but right after their transfer sheet vanished, and their medicae went lctb, leaving many SA collectors uninterested in adding anything new. Yes we could potentially be seeing a wave of legion specific leviathans, but we still have primarchs outstanding, and legions that need fully developing. Dark Angels were the focus of the 6th novel in the series, and yet have little more than a head upgrade set available. How many DA, BA and WS players have lost interest in waiting, and won't be drawn back with the current pricing? Most of the bundles have gone, Calth and Prospero are gone. I doubt we'll see anymore plastic armour types, and it is new products that drive sales higher than trickles. New entry offers need to be better than 11 models for £125, and if it's plastic, FW aren't getting the money on their sales.

We've still got armies missing entry units (i.e. IW havoc's) loads of characters still to do, basic upgrades that you can only buy third party (i.e. a squads worth of combat shields) three legions to flesh out, dark mechanicum to do, Daemon Primarchs to add, and the Emperor. I really don't think that they have the momentum to do all that, or the customer relations to maintain interest and engagement whilst they try.

I want to be wrong. I want HH to thrive and do well. I want to be able to use my IWs for years to come, and to want to add more. I just don't think that the writing on the wall is in its favour.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/14 09:11:00


Have a look at my P&M blog - currently working on: Tempestus Scions/Primaris Howling Griffons

Previous projects
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Full first company Crimson Fists
Zone Mortalis (unfinished)
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Forge World for reasons mentioned earlier in this thread seems to be a mess in general. We're what a year and a half into 8th and not a single new IA book has been dropped and they have been purging inventory left and right. I don't think HH is dead so much as FW needs to get it's **** together.
   
Made in us
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor





They are already dropping hints of covering the immediate crusades that occurred after the battle of terra. They'll just roll the HH ruleset and plot forward.

Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.


 lolman1c wrote:
The ork train has no breaks mothersquiggor!
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Potent Grey Knight Librarian





Fort Worth, TX

*sigh*
The pretty little Carnodon tank is now available. For $106, and, yes, that's US dollars, not Australian. It's like they don't want people to buy it.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





Nottingham

 ChargerIIC wrote:
They are already dropping hints of covering the immediate crusades that occurred after the battle of terra. They'll just roll the HH ruleset and plot forward.


I think they need to wrap up the present holes and campaigns before promising anything extra. Promising more than they can deliver is a big part of the current decline in interest.

Have a look at my P&M blog - currently working on: Tempestus Scions/Primaris Howling Griffons

Previous projects
30k Iron Warriors (11k+)
Full first company Crimson Fists
Zone Mortalis (unfinished)
Classic high elf bloodbowl team 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





GW is currently dismantling 30k bit by bit.

The internal love affair for HH died with Alan I guess.

You can see and feel it.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




Pancakey wrote:
GW is currently dismantling 30k bit by bit.

The internal love affair for HH died with Alan I guess.

You can see and feel it.

Citation needed to say the least.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in gb
Morphing Obliterator








Like the video says; they'd barely finished putting the Legion upgrate kits out (Space Wolves), and they haven't even done all the Primarchs yet (Lion, Sang), yet they've pulled all the Legion torsos, a bunch of armour including all the MKII stuff... I know they're theorising it's because GW will release them in plastic instead, but I don't know about that. One commenter says they rang them up and were told it was a simple matter of not enough sales/profits - well here's a suggestion then, FW; how about you don't make them so extortionately expensive to begin with, eh!? As if they didn't see this problem coming when GW started doing plastic 30K kits, two branches of one company shooting each other in the foot.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/15 21:19:41


Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek) 
   
 
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