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Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





Greetings. I wanted to get some more informed opinions on something that I keep thinking when I see a new/rebooted Sigmar army pop up.

Is it me or is GW releasing way more than twice the number of new kits for AoS than it is for 40k? I'm aware that I'm biased, as AoS fluff doesn't really do it for me, so I thought I'd check with the wider community.

I got back into 40k at the dog-end of 7th and since then I've seen Shadespire, a shed-load of Sigmarites, the Deepkin, Daughters of Khaine, Kharadron, Nighthaunt, and now Beast of Chaos, as well as lots of individual models. I mean, a lot of those are wholly new factions. In that time we've had Deathguard and Primaris and, to be fair, some new Knight releases. DG are the closest we've had to a new faction - an amazing reboot of Papa's favourite Astartes.

On top of that, we get quite a bit of AoS seeping into 40k, through things like Daemons & Thousand Sons, but not vice versa.

I know we're getting some new orkz next month, and a Sisters faction reboot sometime next year, which are both awesome pieces of news. I can't help wondering, though, why I'm perceiving this pretty lopsided release schedule, when you bear in mind that 40k is GW's cash cow, and does a lot better than Sigmar.

I've had people point out that Codexes have been dominating releases, and that's why there haven't been many models in comparison. That doesn't realy wash for a number of reasons - first and foremost, Codex release is a great time to release new models too. Secondly, model designers don't write codexes, so the two releases aren't competing for the same resource pool. In fact it feels like GW missed a lot of opportunities, releasing codexes without new models this year, in favour of spamming Sigmar. E.g. I'm not a big fan of Eldar, but why have they been left languishing with 2nd stuff and finecast nonsense when they're one of the biggest IPs in GW's library, for example? Every time a Codex has dropped I've shrugged at the lack of new models alongside them, whilst casting sidelong glances at the Sigmar avalanche.

So am I losing my tiny mind, or are GW slightly neglecting their biggest property in favour of AoS?

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





With the complete overhaul from fantasy to AoS they're most likely just wanting to give it a bunch of support to begin with. 40k didn't really lose anything model wise going into 8th ed. AoS went to new bases, squatted armies, some of which are getting relaunched for AoS and added new factions. AoS needs the support more than 40k does ATM so it doesn't just die after the initial interest dies down. They don't want it to end up like fantasy with no playerbase.
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





Well yeah, I agree, kind of. AoS is into its second edition now, and has been going for three years, so you can't say that it's beginning anything any more.

"AoS needs the support more than 40k does ATM so it doesn't just die after the initial interest dies down." Isn't the reason AoS needs this support because it's less successful than 40k? Because that argument can easily be reversed: 40K is a much more popular game, and should be supported more to reflect that.

It just seems odd that they have this big hit on their hands, lots of players returning, share prices through the roof because of this, 40k competitive is doing a lot better ... and they're piling all their efforts into 40k's less popular cousin.
   
Made in tw
Dakka Veteran





I think 2017 was the opposite- there where 2 big AoS releases, and shadespire if i remember right- and it was painfully dull in the world of fantasy. 40k got its big new edition, and the waves upon waves, upon waves of nurgle stuff kept coming (and indeed, are STILL coming with the release of rogue trader).

This year tipped the scales in the other direction with an AoS heavy year, though 40k has still pulled some big punches with Custodes, Knights, and very soon Orks. (as well as rogue trader giving new models, and kill team bundles opening up new avenues of collecting 40k terrain)

My main hope is that 2019 will see balance between 40 and AoS. At that point both will be settling/ have settled into the current edition, and GW will be pumping out stuff for both. Slaanesh for example is going to be a great time for everybody, AoS, 40k, and specialist games. The only line that I cant think of at least potentially benefiting from the upcoming orgy of Slaanesh releases is Titanicus.

Like wise rumors are leaning hard the the black fortress game is gonna bring new black legionaries (generic chaos marines) to the front, and I'd be willing to bet they are just goin to wet the pallets of players for a big juicy chaos release. (My hope is that fantasy will see a similar release of Darkoath barbarians)

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




I think the big change is in the past a new codex almost always meant at least one new model or unit. With 8th having such a fast release schedule, almost every codex got released with no new models.
   
Made in sc
Regular Dakkanaut





 grouchoben wrote:
Well yeah, I agree, kind of. AoS is into its second edition now, and has been going for three years, so you can't say that it's beginning anything any more.

"AoS needs the support more than 40k does ATM so it doesn't just die after the initial interest dies down." Isn't the reason AoS needs this support because it's less successful than 40k? Because that argument can easily be reversed: 40K is a much more popular game, and should be supported more to reflect that.

It just seems odd that they have this big hit on their hands, lots of players returning, share prices through the roof because of this, 40k competitive is doing a lot better ... and they're piling all their efforts into 40k's less popular cousin.
~3 years for AoS vs ~30 for 40k. It doesn't make sense to move resources from AoS to 40k yet. People have large collections of 40k already, they've spent their thousands and they're invested. The current kits are still selling because of returning and new players too. Many of whom seem to be starting from scratch when they come back.

You can't take the stance of 40k is more popular so they should just throw everything into that in business. They want people buying armies in both ideally. As soon as they stop releasing for AoS interest will die down and there'll be people crying that they're abandoning AoS. It won't be drawing as many people into the game and people there'll be less people making new armies. It takes a lot more to reignite interest once it starts to die down so they need to keep things going until people are invested enough that they feel like they can't walk away.
   
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Right behind you.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I think the big change is in the past a new codex almost always meant at least one new model or unit. With 8th having such a fast release schedule, almost every codex got released with no new models.

There's also the well discussed fact that GW's getting production issues under control. Their production facility in Nottingham was being renovated and because of it they've had to redo wiring and all kinds of crap like that. Not really something they can control with inspections and the like.

That said, AoS is finally 'catching up' to where they seemingly wanted it to be. They were staggering things out via the gated timeline of the Realm Wars series but they've ditched that method, and even with that being done we're not looking at a whole lot of 'new' armies in the game.

We've had Fyreslayers, Kharadron, Idoneth Deepkin, and the Stormcast as the 'new' armies. Everything else so far has made use of existing stuff.
   
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Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Kanluwen wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:
I think the big change is in the past a new codex almost always meant at least one new model or unit. With 8th having such a fast release schedule, almost every codex got released with no new models.

There's also the well discussed fact that GW's getting production issues under control. Their production facility in Nottingham was being renovated and because of it they've had to redo wiring and all kinds of crap like that. Not really something they can control with inspections and the like.

That said, AoS is finally 'catching up' to where they seemingly wanted it to be. They were staggering things out via the gated timeline of the Realm Wars series but they've ditched that method, and even with that being done we're not looking at a whole lot of 'new' armies in the game.

We've had Fyreslayers, Kharadron, Idoneth Deepkin, and the Stormcast as the 'new' armies. Everything else so far has made use of existing stuff.


And it's worth noting that with 8th edition 40ks gotten a number of new armies, Primaris Marines, Death Guard, Custodes, Knights model range was doubled, all within the last YEAR

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BrianDavion wrote:

And it's worth noting that with 8th edition 40ks gotten a number of new armies, Primaris Marines, Death Guard, Custodes, Knights model range was doubled, all within the last YEAR

Yep. Plus new stuff for Orks (any minute now), GsC and a variety of bits and bobs for others. I think we can quite safely file this under “moaning that GW isn’t catering, and exclusively catering, to the tastes of the complainant”.
   
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BrianDavion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:
I think the big change is in the past a new codex almost always meant at least one new model or unit. With 8th having such a fast release schedule, almost every codex got released with no new models.

There's also the well discussed fact that GW's getting production issues under control. Their production facility in Nottingham was being renovated and because of it they've had to redo wiring and all kinds of crap like that. Not really something they can control with inspections and the like.

That said, AoS is finally 'catching up' to where they seemingly wanted it to be. They were staggering things out via the gated timeline of the Realm Wars series but they've ditched that method, and even with that being done we're not looking at a whole lot of 'new' armies in the game.

We've had Fyreslayers, Kharadron, Idoneth Deepkin, and the Stormcast as the 'new' armies. Everything else so far has made use of existing stuff.


And it's worth noting that with 8th edition 40ks gotten a number of new armies, Primaris Marines, Death Guard, Custodes, Knights model range was doubled, all within the last YEAR

Primaris are part of Space Marines.

Effectively the "new" armies for 40k have been Death Guard, Custodes, Genestealer Cults, and Thousand Sons.
Knights are new-ish they just keep getting new sprues added and now the Armigers and the big ol' Knight variant.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Kanluwen wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
HoundsofDemos wrote:
I think the big change is in the past a new codex almost always meant at least one new model or unit. With 8th having such a fast release schedule, almost every codex got released with no new models.

There's also the well discussed fact that GW's getting production issues under control. Their production facility in Nottingham was being renovated and because of it they've had to redo wiring and all kinds of crap like that. Not really something they can control with inspections and the like.

That said, AoS is finally 'catching up' to where they seemingly wanted it to be. They were staggering things out via the gated timeline of the Realm Wars series but they've ditched that method, and even with that being done we're not looking at a whole lot of 'new' armies in the game.

We've had Fyreslayers, Kharadron, Idoneth Deepkin, and the Stormcast as the 'new' armies. Everything else so far has made use of existing stuff.


And it's worth noting that with 8th edition 40ks gotten a number of new armies, Primaris Marines, Death Guard, Custodes, Knights model range was doubled, all within the last YEAR

Primaris are part of Space Marines.

Effectively the "new" armies for 40k have been Death Guard, Custodes, Genestealer Cults, and Thousand Sons.
Knights are new-ish they just keep getting new sprues added and now the Armigers and the big ol' Knight variant.


if we're gonna add GSC to the list of new armies (I was including within the last year) we can also add death watch and admech to the list (I'd say Admech is proably the biggest new addition lately)

and I included Primaris as well not a new army persay although plenty of people are running all Primaris lists, the Primaris are effectively a new range. and it would be missing a big part of the equation to ignore them.

still let's slide back a bit then.. within the last year we've seen Death Guard become a major army (1k Sons got most of their minis just over a year ago so I'm gonna not include them in the list, arbitrary decision is arbitrary) and Custodes have expanded into a full fledged army, Meanwhile Space Marines and Imperial Knights have both had fairly major updates along with their codex, Gene stealer Cults just got a buncha new stuff in the Tooth and Claw Boxed set, and most likely if the forge bane box is anything to go by will see even more new stuff with their codex. Meanwhile we know Orks are also getting a MAJOR update. In terms of other factions, Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves have all gotten a hefty update, by getting access to the Primaris Marines AND their own Special Leuitenant models. Necrons have likewise gotten a new HQ model. 1K sons where given access to new models from the AOS Tzeetch Cultist line And CSMs got a minor update simply by virtue of the new plague Marine Models.Deamons got a massive Nurgle upgrade.

From a new model POV the following armies have come up short: (this doesn't mean the armies are bad, just they've not gotten any new plastic crack within the last 12 months or any confirmation of getting something very soon)

Grey Knights
Imperial Guard
Craft World Eldar
Dark Eldar
Tyranids
Tau
Ynnari.


frankly I don't even include Ynnari as their own faction (although it'd be nice to see them get a massive update that makes them their own) so if we look at this, the game has around 18 or so armies, of those only 7 didn't get ANYTHING model wise in the last year or so


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Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Model wise tyranids really cannot complain, we received a bunch of big monsters out of the blue during 7th and our range is fairly complete. Not to mention that zoans and venoms were passed to plastic and warriors were redone.

Sure we do have some wishes (plastic lictors and 'vores!!!) but we can live with them.
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest




UK

It feels to me like 40k has more consistently released items. AOS seems to get a big hit of kits every so often. Every other weeks sees new 40k, or at least repackaged into cheaper bundles 40k.

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Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





phillv85 wrote:
It feels to me like 40k has more consistently released items. AOS seems to get a big hit of kits every so often. Every other weeks sees new 40k, or at least repackaged into cheaper bundles 40k.


thats my impression too, 40K has a constant drip of releases where as AOS has the more old school "splash releases"

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Made in gb
Council of 13 Runner Up






40k has nearly everything it needs. Most ranges are fully fleshed out.

In the past few years, Imperial Knights, Deathguard, Thousand Sons, Genestealer Cults, Adeptus Mechanicus, Harlequins all got entirely new ranges.

There’s really not a great deal more they can easily do with the remaining ranges. For instance, the Imperial Guard. Whilst new sculpts are always a possibility, what are they actually missing? They’ve got tanks, artillery and infantry all well covered.

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Fixture of Dakka




UK

AoS had a LOT of factions fractured into smaller sub-groupings. Some of these are being put back together, others are being added to and some new factions are being brought out. Basically old fantasy got neglected for years and then AOS launch was a bit of a messy thing (with veyr different objectives under old management).
Meanwhile all that time 40K got a lot of releases - Necrons Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Tau - a lot of models added that bumped them up so that now most 40K armies are very complete toolboxes with most of everything they "need" to work.

AoS still has factions very under-supported with big gaps (not helped by lots of models being stripped out over the years and not being replaced - eg all the Aelf bolt throwers are gone). AoS basically needs these bigger releases to get itself into a position where most armies we well supported.


Consider that Stormcast has 69 listings on its store page whilst the entire Death Grand Alliances has only just over 80 for the entire alliance. So there's huge disparities in the model line that should be bolstered up

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Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Indeed space Marines are a good example of this, we had everything we needed, and the new stuff marines where getting where eaither stuff that where clearly just developed to sell models (Centurions) varients of stuff we already had (the Heresy era armors, contemptor dreads and taratoes and cataphracti terminators) or stuff for entire new roles GW tossed into the game in an effort to allow them to sell more models (fliers and anti-flier tanks)

we still see this with Primaris Marines where GW's new answer to "Space Marines kinda HAVE everything" is "ok new type of space marine"

basicly with a few exceptions the "pre 6th edition armies" for 40k has everything it needs. yeah some armies still have lots of finecast but over all it seems GW isn't prioritizing replacing that(even Space marines have a unit or two in fine cast)

I imagine brand new stuff pretty constantaly outsells old stuff so when GW decides on their priorities...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/16 10:48:24


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Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





 Overread wrote:
AoS had a LOT of factions fractured into smaller sub-groupings. Some of these are being put back together, others are being added to and some new factions are being brought out. Basically old fantasy got neglected for years and then AOS launch was a bit of a messy thing (with veyr different objectives under old management).
Meanwhile all that time 40K got a lot of releases - Necrons Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Tau - a lot of models added that bumped them up so that now most 40K armies are very complete toolboxes with most of everything they "need" to work.

AoS still has factions very under-supported with big gaps (not helped by lots of models being stripped out over the years and not being replaced - eg all the Aelf bolt throwers are gone). AoS basically needs these bigger releases to get itself into a position where most armies we well supported.


Consider that Stormcast has 69 listings on its store page whilst the entire Death Grand Alliances has only just over 80 for the entire alliance. So there's huge disparities in the model line that should be bolstered up


That's a great point that I hadn't considered, not knowing much about the game myself, thanks. Your reasoning seems to imply that every faction should meet the same level of support as Stormcast, however, which might be hard in practice. In 40k it wouldn't be realistic to expect Harlequins to ever have the same range as SMs, for example.

Also, if you take the splintered factions as factions, then AoS has over twice the number of factions that 40k does (60 compared to 29). 60x69 is ... a lot of releases...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/16 11:31:35


 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





The main reason I think we haven't seen as many models for 40k is simply the rate GW are pumping out codex's. They want to get every factions main rule book out to bring everyone up to a similar playing field in 8th and once they are all done then I think GW will switch back to more models and supplements to fill gaps.
   
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Fixture of Dakka




UK

I wouldn't expect every faction to get to Stormcast levels of model support, but I'd expect at least one per Grand Alliance to get a level of that support. Other armies will be hit and miss depending on how GW sees them.

Some are going to be armies that are quite self contained units like Seraphon and Stormcast, others might be self contained (ergo they work solo) but which use allies to draw in other features (Eg Daughters of Khaine at present). There's also a possible chance that some might remain tiny and used either as very niche forces or designed to be part of allied armies.

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Funny. I have read opposite complain on aos side guess if both sldes are unhappy it's even

“Nothing has a definite nature, so people cannot be purely evil. Even so-called evil people will aspire to follow a moral path when they feel a sense of community.” – Kukai

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Both are getting more attention than EVER before, GW has NEVER have this many releases before, it took years, 3-5 years to do what they did in 1 year in each AOS and 40k.

If someone complains they need to take a chill pill.

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 Amishprn86 wrote:
Both are getting more attention than EVER before, GW has NEVER have this many releases before, it took years, 3-5 years to do what they did in 1 year in each AOS and 40k.

If someone complains they need to take a chill pill.


it's amausing how fast we forget isn't it?

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BrianDavion wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Both are getting more attention than EVER before, GW has NEVER have this many releases before, it took years, 3-5 years to do what they did in 1 year in each AOS and 40k.

If someone complains they need to take a chill pill.


it's amausing how fast we forget isn't it?


I started back in 5th so I remember the slow drip release schedule but it also always meant when your turn came you got new units. This was the edition that DE and Necrons got serious reboots, the divergent chapters got a ton of new stuff and guard got a lot of new stuff in plastic.

One thing I'd like to see them do is retire/ clean up some of the older kits for chaos and eldar. In an edition that's supposed to be all about chaos, if you don't play DG or TS then almost two years in you've gotten nothing and going further back to the gather storm serious that did nothing for chaos rules or models wise. That's why as a marine player the primaris releases annoy me so much. The game doesn't need super space marines, it needs more variety.
   
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HoundsofDemos wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Both are getting more attention than EVER before, GW has NEVER have this many releases before, it took years, 3-5 years to do what they did in 1 year in each AOS and 40k.

If someone complains they need to take a chill pill.


it's amausing how fast we forget isn't it?


I started back in 5th so I remember the slow drip release schedule but it also always meant when your turn came you got new units. This was the edition that DE and Necrons got serious reboots, the divergent chapters got a ton of new stuff and guard got a lot of new stuff in plastic.

One thing I'd like to see them do is retire/ clean up some of the older kits for chaos and eldar. In an edition that's supposed to be all about chaos, if you don't play DG or TS then almost two years in you've gotten nothing and going further back to the gather storm serious that did nothing for chaos rules or models wise. That's why as a marine player the primaris releases annoy me so much. The game doesn't need super space marines, it needs more variety.


yup I started with 5th as well and it really was a night and day differance from then and now.

I do agree it'd be nice to see some stuff for chaos, but at the same time I got a feeling that GW is focusing on new lines now rather then bloating old lines..
Space Marines aside, and even then they basicly soft rebooted the line

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Problem is redoing old kits means not every existing player will replace already existing models. New unit means meanwhile everybody is target as nobody has them already.

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SoCal

But redoing old kits may mean a lot more players will take up that old army with the sexy new look. Like Dark Eldar, et al..

   
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New Jersey, State of Perfection

Is it me or is...


It's just you. GW is releasing a lot of new kits for Age of Sigmar, but 40k is still getting the bulk of GWs attention.

I got back into 40k at the dog-end of 7th and since then I've seen Shadespire, a shed-load of Sigmarites, the Deepkin, Daughters of Khaine, Kharadron, Nighthaunt, and now Beast of Chaos, as well as lots of individual models. I mean, a lot of those are wholly new factions. In that time we've had Deathguard and Primaris and, to be fair, some new Knight releases. DG are the closest we've had to a new faction - an amazing reboot of Papa's favourite Astartes.


Beasts of Chaos aren't getting any new kits whatsoever.

Primaris Marines, Deathguard, Custodes (new faction), new Knights, chapter-specific Primaris kits are all new 40k kits. On top of that 40k has had a "shed-load" of new stuff by way of Forgebane, Tooth & Claw, Kill Team: Rogue Trader (including a whole new terrain line), Necromunda, Adeptus Titanicus, etc (if you're counting Shadespire then you have to count these). We know Orks are getting a massive overhaul of their miniature line next month, we know that Sisters of Battle will be released next year with an entirely new line of plastics. We know that they are soon going to be releasing more 40k minis in Blackstone Fortress.

On top of that, we get quite a bit of AoS seeping into 40k, through things like Daemons & Thousand Sons, but not vice versa.


We've had the reverse happen in the past - the Defiler became an Age of Sigmar model.

why I'm perceiving this pretty lopsided release schedule


Because you're misinformed (re: Beasts of Chaos) and excluding a lot of 40k related releases. You're also apparently thrown off by the fact that Age of Sigmar is getting new faction releases (which may or may not involve new models) which is probably causing you to think age of sigmar is over-represented in terms of new stuff vs 40k which is mostly just seeing updates to old factions.

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