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Grail Seeker wrote:
I think roadmaps are becoming less and less common as fanbases prove themselves unable to handle them.

So many times a company will produce a roadmap, come back later and say the roadmap has changed or is delayed

So it's the company that's unable to handle them, then?

Grail Seeker wrote:
I think roadmaps are becoming less and less common as fanbases prove themselves unable to handle them.

So many times a company will produce a roadmap, come back later and say the roadmap has changed or is delayed and then the "fans" go on the warpath.

Its a lot of risk without a lot of upside.

Sorry but that sounds like bs to me. The key is communication, GOOD communication, not trying to lead on the fans. The vast majority of fans understand that various factors can throw things into disarray and can deal with a delay here and there. A few people might complain, but the vast majority of people get it, mistakes are made, suppliers fail to deliver, ships sink, whatever, we get it, gak happens.

Legions Imperialis is a great example of communication but bad communication that is borderline so bad that they might be better off not communicating at all (which is not a great alternative!).

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Grail Seeker wrote:
I think roadmaps are becoming less and less common as fanbases prove themselves unable to handle them.

So many times a company will produce a roadmap, come back later and say the roadmap has changed or is delayed

So it's the company that's unable to handle them, then?

Case in point, people want to treat a roadmap like a binding contract.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Grail Seeker wrote:
I think roadmaps are becoming less and less common as fanbases prove themselves unable to handle them.

So many times a company will produce a roadmap, come back later and say the roadmap has changed or is delayed and then the "fans" go on the warpath.

Its a lot of risk without a lot of upside.

Sorry but that sounds like bs to me. The key is communication, GOOD communication, not trying to lead on the fans. The vast majority of fans understand that various factors can throw things into disarray and can deal with a delay here and there. A few people might complain, but the vast majority of people get it, mistakes are made, suppliers fail to deliver, ships sink, whatever, we get it, gak happens.

Legions Imperialis is a great example of communication but bad communication that is borderline so bad that they might be better off not communicating at all (which is not a great alternative!).

You really can't think of an example of a company communicating regularly and the fanbase getting angry over it. Really?

The Total War team - Warhammer adjacent, at one time were very communicative about what was going on. They received a lot od praise and their community lead did talks about how they were able turn around a community that was largely considererd hostile and toxic.

They started pulling back from communication (prior to their other issues, mind. This was still during TW:Wahammer 2) when their staff starting getting harassed, threatened, and even followed home from work.

The problem is fans treat a roadmap as promises and reality is that most firms have to deal with the ups and downs of development and budget changing what appears in the roadmap.

Or if not what then when.

It's doubly a pain when its things outside of the firm's control







THAT said I think honestly what a lot of people into miniatures and wargames want when they ask for a roadmap isn't necessarily the specifics of what is coming (that's nice to get) but a sense that the army/faction/game is getting long term support from the parent company.
Ergo that the game is envisioned ot be a long term thing not a "oh yeah we cancelled that after 6 months."





As for less common, GW never really did them before. The most is 3 months projection from preview events. Everything else is uncommon.

I think the other factor is updates on the roadmap. Fans are MUCH more accepting when you say "here's the roadmap and X isn't coming now because of Y reason and Z is being delayed because of Y reason as well".
If its just a roadmap and then silence until a different roadmap appears; that annoys people.

I suspect that a roadmap that projects too far into the future encourages customers to save their money for far future release rather than buying whatever the new hotness is. The marketing folks probably want people to focus on the latest releases.

Bah, roadmaps. Either they reveal to much, or they dont reveal enough.
Nobody want to be told there is no Goblin sky pirates for at least another 6 months.

It's definitely a marketing decision as that will help drive success or failure for the game but at least we know O&G are next...Just wonder when we are getting foot knights and the rest of the Bret/TK ranges.

Hopefully Gdubs has figured out their production issues. Stores here in Texas (DFW area) are running low on inventory besides their flagship store in Grapevine.

 nathan2004 wrote:
It's definitely a marketing decision as that will help drive success or failure for the game but at least we know O&G are next...Just wonder when we are getting foot knights and the rest of the Bret/TK ranges.

Hopefully Gdubs has figured out their production issues. Stores here in Texas (DFW area) are running low on inventory besides their flagship store in Grapevine.

Perry miniatures has awesome men at arms that'd fit the bill more than apptly.

I came to this forum because GW refused to show their hand of what was coming down the pipe until it was practically enroute to the store. Meanwhile, TSR/WotC was putting out catalogs that were 6 months to a year out.

It would not kill GW to be more open about what's in the works, but they're gonna do their own thing.

but this is what GW is thinking, that nobody would impulse buy stuff (or start a new faction) if they knew that the box/faction they actually wanted is coming next month
and with people just buying what they want/need they won't make any profit

and now we can debate if GW would make more or less money if they do things differently
but for now it works, and people on the web are saying that this kind marketing is healthy for the game, because GW games are the most popular ones

 Stormonu wrote:
I came to this forum because GW refused to show their hand of what was coming down the pipe until it was practically enroute to the store. Meanwhile, TSR/WotC was putting out catalogs that were 6 months to a year out.

It would not kill GW to be more open about what's in the works, but they're gonna do their own thing.

Also, WotC hasn't updated their D&D website for over a year. Did you know that Spelljammer is forthcoming for August 16, 2022!?!?!? Better pre-order now!

Grail Seeker wrote:
You really can't think of an example of a company communicating regularly and the fanbase getting angry over it. Really?

Of course I can, I even gave you an example, Legions Imperialis

I'm still waiting for the "sooner than you think" drop pods to come out

The Total War team - Warhammer adjacent, at one time were very communicative about what was going on. They received a lot od praise and their community lead did talks about how they were able turn around a community that was largely considererd hostile and toxic.

They started pulling back from communication (prior to their other issues, mind. This was still during TW:Wahammer 2) when their staff starting getting harassed, threatened, and even followed home from work.

I don't follow CA enough to know what you're referring to, but I'd question whether staff getting harassed had to do with a decision to clearly communicate.

Communication can be done badly, CA in recent months is a perfect example of how to communicate badly. I don't know if they were doing that stuff back in the time period you were talking about, but yes, if a company can't figure how how to communicate, maybe they shouldn't, but that doesn't inherently make communication bad. I do remember CA at one point was doing these long unnecessary blog style posts, is that the time period you're talking about?

It's not really that hard, you say what your roadmap is, when things go wrong, you put out a post saying "sorry, due to unforeseen circumstances, this product has been delayed, we want to make sure it's right and if we tried to release it on that date it wouldn't be, we can't give a new timeline right now, please bear with us and we'll let you know when we have a new date locked in!"

If there is a specific circumstance that led to the delay that can be shared, then share it (I appreciate sometimes the delays can't be shared for one reason or another, especially for a publicly traded company, but often they can).

What you don't do is "sooner than you think", "coming out this month" followed by two weeks later "coming out later this year".

One mistake you often see companies make, is when something is delayed, let people know, but then they keep talking about the product when it's better to shut up and wait until their timeline is shored up before continuing to market it. Trying to keep the hype train rolling through bad news is a minefield.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

One mistake you often see companies make, is when something is delayed, let people know, but then they keep talking about the product when it's better to shut up and wait until their timeline is shored up before continuing to market it. Trying to keep the hype train rolling through bad news is a minefield.

The other is saying there's a problem once or not saying anything at all and waiting until you have positive news.

Keeping the hype train going normally comes from a constantly shifting or unknown deadline that ends up extending the hype machine way beyond where it can be effective.

However similarly going dark/silent is even more damaging. You ;might be working darn hard every day but your fans see nothing and that leads them to speculate and go wild with theories and ideas and before you know if you've whipped up a storm of complaints and disgruntled people and so forth. Some will even question if the whole thing has been cancelled and that might mean they sign off your entire company not just switch to another product in the lineup (if you've got that of course).


So yeah saying the wrong things is bad but so too is saying nothing at all.

 Overread wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

One mistake you often see companies make, is when something is delayed, let people know, but then they keep talking about the product when it's better to shut up and wait until their timeline is shored up before continuing to market it. Trying to keep the hype train rolling through bad news is a minefield.

The other is saying there's a problem once or not saying anything at all and waiting until you have positive news.

Keeping the hype train going normally comes from a constantly shifting or unknown deadline that ends up extending the hype machine way beyond where it can be effective.

However similarly going dark/silent is even more damaging. You ;might be working darn hard every day but your fans see nothing and that leads them to speculate and go wild with theories and ideas and before you know if you've whipped up a storm of complaints and disgruntled people and so forth. Some will even question if the whole thing has been cancelled and that might mean they sign off your entire company not just switch to another product in the lineup (if you've got that of course).


So yeah saying the wrong things is bad but so too is saying nothing at all.

I think if a company is clear about the delay then dialling back the marketing works fine.

Again to use Legions Imperialis as an example, when the August date fell through, they should have just said there's been a delay and they can't give more info on a new date just now. But instead they said something vague (I don't remember what it was now, was it "later this year" or something like that?) so people were on tenterhooks with each new announcement wondering if it's just about to launch until finally the last release window of the year when it finally dropped. They kept the hype going but at the cost of making a chunk of fans unhappy.

And then they couldn't keep it in stock anyway so realistically they probably should have pushed it to Jan, which would have been fine to do if they had originally just said "we can't give you an updated release date right now" instead of "later this year".

Games Workshop are in the enviable position of demand outstripping supply so far that it doesn't matter if they fumble all the time, even if they reduce the pool of people who want to buy it significantly, enough people still want to buy it that it sells out, lol.

Let's take this discussion to a topic of its own and let this thread rest until actual Old World news arises, shall we?

Do we have anything more about the rumours about new minis for The Empire? Remember reading a rumour about new knights and militia.

 The Green one wrote:
Do we have anything more about the rumours about new minis for The Empire? Remember reading a rumour about new knights and militia.

That was the Hasting rumor about Empire coming with new Empire knights and a cannon but that rumor got debunked with the claim that TK they're getting a new chariot & "sand mummies" & O&G New boar chariot

Honestly with how thing are going along i simply just see them put out two resin heroes like they did with the Orc and Goblins since they're one of the faction that have the bulk of their army in plastic

I'm interested to see what they'll do with Wood Elves considering a lot of the range is part of AoS.

I'm wondering if we will see new Dryads and such.

We can pretty much rule out redone Dryads. They're still sold for AoS and angry sticks aren't even a neglected faction. If GW thinks they're serviceable for their main fantasy game, they're not going to make new ones for Old World. Best case is that AoS gets new ones down the line and the old models become Old World exclusives.

For now it's best to assume that if it's a plastic kit, there's zero chance for it to get remade for Old World. So far we got centerpiece characters and a new unit for Bretonnians that filled a gap in the army. There's a case to be made for Empire to get a similar treatment if GW wants to play up the three emperors thing, but the game is very low investment for now and the most pressing new releases alongside getting all the old stuff back into circulation are period accurate characters, most likely in resin.

Indeed, in the case an existing kit gets "locked" into AoS, we're more likely to see a return to old metals for the ToW version than a second plastic kit.

And it looks like ToW is dead on arrival in my area, I talked to the WHFB grognards yesterday and I'm more likely to try it than they are.

 Olthannon wrote:
I'm interested to see what they'll do with Wood Elves considering a lot of the range is part of AoS.

I'm wondering if we will see new Dryads and such.

They removed all of the actual Wood Elf range. Dryads and the Treelord are the only things left from the range in AoS.

 Olthannon wrote:
I'm interested to see what they'll do with Wood Elves considering a lot of the range is part of AoS.

I'm wondering if we will see new Dryads and such.

High Elves are on my radar. I know there has been talk here about the feasibility of a MTO for Isle of Blood and that some of the model range survived for a while in Cities of Sigmar. My High Elf army from 8th is incomplete (basically a set of Isle of Blood + Dragon Princes + a box of spearmen), and I'd really like to flesh it out, especially with some Silver Helms, Phoenix Guard and a chariot.

(And Vampire Counts, of course. On the latter, with all the models still up on the website - even if most are "temporarily unavailable" - it's obviously pure spite that they've made this a legacy faction).

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Indeed, in the case an existing kit gets "locked" into AoS, we're more likely to see a return to old metals for the ToW version than a second plastic kit.

And it looks like ToW is dead on arrival in my area, I talked to the WHFB grognards yesterday and I'm more likely to try it than they are.

Interesting it's alive and well here in the Dallas, Tx area with fairly large numbers coming out for open gaming events.

Well, interesting article on WarComm about the Warhammer World anniversary with an interesting picture:



https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/02/19/its-the-warhammer-world-anniversary-next-month-and-weve-got-reveals/

Calling it now, the return of Lumpin Croop's Fighting Cocks*.

Something to do with Old World and the Moot anyway.

*Yes, I know that's a goose and not a rooster, but I think the Halflings are not that picky about their mascots. Or could be multiple fowl.

The cap on his head kinda looks like one of the original leather caps for football, so my guess is the goose is bloodbowl related.

Ughh Haflings - yuck

If it's feet were carrying a bomb i'd be tempted to say empire pigeon bombs. But the bird isn't really a pigeon so that probably isn't it. Probably something goofier like halflings or Blood Bowl.

Does anyone know if the new beast of nurgle models fit on the 50x75 mm bases?

 nathan2004 wrote:
Does anyone know if the new beast of nurgle models fit on the 50x75 mm bases?

Easy for sure, they come on 60mm rounds with loads of room to spare

SgtEeveell wrote:Calling it now, the return of Lumpin Croop's Fighting Cocks*.

Something to do with Old World and the Moot anyway.

*Yes, I know that's a goose and not a rooster, but I think the Halflings are not that picky about their mascots. Or could be multiple fowl.

As if there would be a Halfling alive in the entire Old World who would get within 100 feet of a Canadian goose.