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Inspired by this trainwreck, I'm curious as to what the general value people place on having painted models.

Please do NOT repeat the rudeness and rules-breaking of that thread. Keep it civil and tolerant.

Painting is a basic requirement for playing the game. No painted models, please do not show up and expect a game. So in that context this thread doesn't make much sense. It's like asking how much you value assembled models or knowing the rules or whatever, even people who don't specifically enjoy assembling models or studying rulebooks can value those things highly and consider them mandatory requirements for participation. So my answer that fits the intent of a poll as a rating scale, the strongest "painting matters" response, is not true as-written for me. It isn't the entire hobby, but it is of maximum importance.

 Peregrine wrote:
Painting is a basic requirement for playing the game. No painted models, please do not show up and expect a game. So in that context this thread doesn't make much sense. It's like asking how much you value assembled models or knowing the rules or whatever, even people who don't specifically enjoy assembling models or studying rulebooks can value those things highly and consider them mandatory requirements for participation.

Why do you say that? I can perfectly well understand you saying "I will not play you if you don't have painted models," but to say that as a universal seems pretty presumptuous.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why do you say that? I can perfectly well understand you saying "I will not play you if you don't have painted models," but to say that as a universal seems pretty presumptuous.

Because unpainted models look like , and there's no excuse for bringing them into a public gaming space. It's like having a bunch of bases with space marine legs on them proxying as an AOS army. The whole reason we play a miniatures game instead of using cardboard tokens on a map grid is for the aesthetic value of the miniatures, and bringing miniatures ruins that aesthetic value. And TBH even if two players agree to use unpainted models it still gives the hobby a bad reputation to have that kind of thing happening in public. So I'm all in favor of stores/clubs/whatever having a policy that unpainted models are banned.

(And before one particular poster shows up, yes, reasonable accommodations can be made for someone who has a legitimate disability that prevents them from painting. But the vast majority of unpainted armies are the result of laziness, not disability. Their owners don't care about painting and refuse to do it even though they are entirely capable of it. The disability argument is nothing more than an attempt to divert the discussion onto an irrelevant tangent and provide excuses for the not-disabled majority.)

That's an opinion you have. I'd appreciate you not presenting it as a universal truth.

Again, you're free to refuse to game against someone who hasn't painted their models. But to say it's your way or the highway demonstrates a lack of understanding of other viewpoints, or possibly a lack of caring.

To be clear here, this thread is asking about your personal opinion on painted miniatures.

If we could all try to avoid making sweeping statements that suggest that our own opinion is the only valid way to play, that would be helpful.

LOL.....oh that made me laugh. A Store banning unpainted models.....Hahahaa! Oh my, tears down my cheeks!

Oh mah garsh that was a good one......more please?

 JNAProductions wrote:
I'd appreciate you not presenting it as a universal truth.

And I'd appreciate it if people stop bringing unpainted models.

Again, you're free to refuse to game against someone who hasn't painted their models.

I will do exactly that. I will also advocate for stores/clubs/etc to ban the use of unpainted models.

But to say it's your way or the highway demonstrates a lack of understanding of other viewpoints, or possibly a lack of caring.

It's a lack of caring. I don't care about excuses for why people don't want to meet the basic standards of playing the game, just like I don't care what excuses someone has for not bothering to learn the rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Da-Rock wrote:
LOL.....oh that made me laugh. A Store banning unpainted models.....Hahahaa! Oh my, tears down my cheeks!

What's so wrong with that? A major reason to have in-store gaming space is to take advantage of customers who are willing to provide free advertising for the products you sell. A game with two nicely painted armies does a good job of selling the game as an enjoyable experience and getting customers to stop and look. A "game" with a bunch of random space marine legs on bases, broken gray plastic everywhere, etc, does not do this and likely convinces potential customers to stay away from the hobby. Take away the free advertising and what are you left with? Paying to provide gaming space for people who bought most of their models years ago and just keep coming in for the free tables?

I personally prefer painted games. I played my first game at a local store recently and they have a everything must have three colors rule. I thought it a bit elitist and offputting to new players but after thinking about it I think it fosters a better community and showcases the products on sale far better.

I think it might be helpful for people to embrace Perigrines more hardline stance. The addictive hoarding so many players partake in would at least be lessened if they couldn't get any games in until fully painted.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Inspired by this trainwreck, I'm curious as to what the general value people place on having painted models.

Please do NOT repeat the rudeness and rules-breaking of that thread. Keep it civil and tolerant.

Glad i inspired you. I didn't mean to come off as rude, just trying to take a tougher stance to encourage more people to stick to tradition.

 Da-Rock wrote:
LOL.....oh that made me laugh. A Store banning unpainted models.....Hahahaa! Oh my, tears down my cheeks!

Oh mah garsh that was a good one......more please?

I'm not sure what you find funny about it, too be honest. I couldn't say where it's all at these days, but it used to be not that uncommon.

Most tourneys and some gaming clubs have had similar rules.

The reception of this rules has always been somewhat varied, but ultimately if you're playing in someone's space, you follow their rules.


For myself, I prefer painted models for games, and will generally only use what I have painted unless it's just to try something out, but I'd rather play the game than stress about how much paint is on my opponent's models.

I don't care that much. I suck at painting so I can't do it, and it's expensive to get them painted. I spend enough on the models, I'll get around to having someone paint them one day.

Frankly if someone told me that didn't want to play with me because my models aren't painted, I would look at them and straight-up say I wouldn't want to play with someone like that because of how petty they are.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
I don't care that much. I suck at painting so I can't do it, and it's expensive to get them painted. I spend enough on the models, I'll get around to having someone paint them one day.

Frankly if someone told me that didn't want to play with me because my models aren't painted, I would look at them and straight-up say I wouldn't want to play with someone like that because of how petty they are.

Do you feel happy knowing you are actively contributing to the destruction of the tradition ?

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Frankly if someone told me that didn't want to play with me because my models aren't painted, I would look at them and straight-up say I wouldn't want to play with someone like that because of how petty they are.

So wanting to have a more enjoyable game experience is now "petty"? Is it also petty to expect my opponent to use appropriate models and not a bunch of space marine legs on bases?

 Stormatious wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
I don't care that much. I suck at painting so I can't do it, and it's expensive to get them painted. I spend enough on the models, I'll get around to having someone paint them one day.

Frankly if someone told me that didn't want to play with me because my models aren't painted, I would look at them and straight-up say I wouldn't want to play with someone like that because of how petty they are.

Do you feel happy knowing you are actively contributing to the destruction of the tradition ?

Tradition is simply the way something was done before. That doesn't make it good.

I'm sure we can all think of many examples of things people used to do that isn't done anymore and that's for the better. I certainly can, but I can't really say them due to forum rules.

 Stormatious wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
I don't care that much. I suck at painting so I can't do it, and it's expensive to get them painted. I spend enough on the models, I'll get around to having someone paint them one day.

Frankly if someone told me that didn't want to play with me because my models aren't painted, I would look at them and straight-up say I wouldn't want to play with someone like that because of how petty they are.

Do you feel happy knowing you are actively contributing to the destruction of the tradition ?

It's a game, you're supposed to have fun with people. That's the only tradition there is.

 Peregrine wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Frankly if someone told me that didn't want to play with me because my models aren't painted, I would look at them and straight-up say I wouldn't want to play with someone like that because of how petty they are.

So wanting to have a more enjoyable game experience is now "petty"? Is it also petty to expect my opponent to use appropriate models and not a bunch of space marine legs on bases?

Peregine, again-there's nothing wrong with your standards being "Painted or GTFO."

But to insist everyone have the exact same standards... Well, that's just rude. I mean, how would you feel if I told you you had to have every single rule memorized to play a game with me? No referencing books at all. And I demand that standard from EVERYONE, regardless of how experienced they are or skilled they are.

 Peregrine wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Frankly if someone told me that didn't want to play with me because my models aren't painted, I would look at them and straight-up say I wouldn't want to play with someone like that because of how petty they are.

So wanting to have a more enjoyable game experience is now "petty"? Is it also petty to expect my opponent to use appropriate models and not a bunch of space marine legs on bases?

This was about painting, not modeling.

 Stormatious wrote:

Do you feel happy knowing you are actively contributing to the destruction of the tradition ?

Dial down the hyperbole, there. I've been playing 40k for 25 years now, and the number of unpainted armies I saw when I started is pretty much the same as now.

This isn't some new trend.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
It's a game, you're supposed to have fun with people. That's the only tradition there is.

And seeing unpainted models on the table is not fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
This was about painting, not modeling.

But why is modeling any different? Painting a model is just as much a part of finishing it as gluing together all of the pieces, and an unpainted model is no different from a random set of space marine legs glued on a base because "I'll finish it someday".

 Peregrine wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
It's a game, you're supposed to have fun with people. That's the only tradition there is.

And seeing unpainted models on the table is not fun.

For you.

For a lot of people, it doesn't matter.

For me personally, painted is better, but hardly a dealbreaker. I'm 100% happy to play a game of grey minis, it'd just be a little cooler to have paints on them.

 Peregrine wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
It's a game, you're supposed to have fun with people. That's the only tradition there is.

And seeing unpainted models on the table is not fun.

Having fun is in the game, or modeling, or painting. Whatever you enjoy, you should do. But when you try imposing your standard on others, it stops being fun for them.

 Peregrine wrote:

So wanting to have a more enjoyable game experience is now "petty"?

You're perfectly free to play the game however you think best.

It's your continuing insistence that everyone else should go out of their way to accommodate your preferences or get out of the hobby that rubs folk the wrong way.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
It's a game, you're supposed to have fun with people. That's the only tradition there is.

And seeing unpainted models on the table is not fun.

Having fun is in the game, or modeling, or painting. Whatever you enjoy, you should do. But when you try imposing your standard on others, it stops being fun for them.

What about some thing else like i don't know, any thing.... If you don't have the main requirements usually people wont allow you to participate in alot of "insert what ever hobby"

Hobby being / Racing cars / playing sports etc etc etc

 JNAProductions wrote:
But to insist everyone have the exact same standards... Well, that's just rude.

You know what is rude? Playing with unpainted models in a public space.

I mean, how would you feel if I told you you had to have every single rule memorized to play a game with me? No referencing books at all. And I demand that standard from EVERYONE, regardless of how experienced they are or skilled they are.

That's not a reasonable comparison at all. Painting to a basic tabletop level is within the abilities of virtually everyone and significantly improves the game. Literal perfection in rule memorization is not something most people can do and it adds very little to the game when those rulebooks do exist and it's easy to quickly look up something if you aren't sure. The more appropriate comparison to flawless memorization would be expecting to have every army painted to golden demon winning standard, and that is not something I am asking for. The equivalent to tabletop standard, what I am asking for, would be expecting my opponent to know things like how to roll the basic hit-wound-save sequence without me having to explain that BS 4+ means you need a 4 or better on the die to hit.

 Stormatious wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
It's a game, you're supposed to have fun with people. That's the only tradition there is.

And seeing unpainted models on the table is not fun.

Having fun is in the game, or modeling, or painting. Whatever you enjoy, you should do. But when you try imposing your standard on others, it stops being fun for them.

What about some thing else like i don't know, any thing.... If you don't have the main requirements usually people wont allow you to participate in alot of "insert what ever hobby"

Hobby being any thing - Cars / engines /sports / what ever.

Why is painting a main requirement for a wargame?

That'd be like saying owning your class's spell cards is a requirement for D&D-it's handy, sure. It makes the game better, sure. But it's not needed to play the game.

 Peregrine wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
But to insist everyone have the exact same standards... Well, that's just rude.

You know what is rude? Playing with unpainted models in a public space.

I mean, how would you feel if I told you you had to have every single rule memorized to play a game with me? No referencing books at all. And I demand that standard from EVERYONE, regardless of how experienced they are or skilled they are.

That's not a reasonable comparison at all. Painting to a basic tabletop level is within the abilities of virtually everyone and significantly improves the game. Literal perfection in rule memorization is not something most people can do and it adds very little to the game when those rulebooks do exist and it's easy to quickly look up something if you aren't sure. The more appropriate comparison to flawless memorization would be expecting to have every army painted to golden demon winning standard, and that is not something I am asking for. The equivalent to tabletop standard, what I am asking for, would be expecting my opponent to know things like how to roll the basic hit-wound-save sequence without me having to explain that BS 4+ means you need a 4 or better on the die to hit.

Why is that rude? As a universal, not as a personal thing to you.

And I consider them to be basically equivalent. I'm a bad painter-I struggle to reach basic competence on my models. But rules memorizing is easy-it comes naturally to me.

Basically, Peregine, I have fun with the game because of the game. (Or, perhaps, in spite of, considering the quality of 40k rules. ) The models are secondary. Is that wrong?

 insaniak wrote:
It's your continuing insistence that everyone else should go out of their way to accommodate your preferences or get out of the hobby that rubs folk the wrong way.

I am not terribly concerned with this given the fact that I don't want those people around. If they don't like the expectation of painted models and choose to remove themselves from my presence, well, I'm considering that a win.

 Stormatious wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
It's a game, you're supposed to have fun with people. That's the only tradition there is.

And seeing unpainted models on the table is not fun.

Having fun is in the game, or modeling, or painting. Whatever you enjoy, you should do. But when you try imposing your standard on others, it stops being fun for them.

What about some thing else like i don't know, any thing.... If you don't have the main requirements usually people wont allow you to participate in alot of "insert what ever hobby"

Hobby being any thing - Cars / engines /sports / what ever.

But you don't need paint to play the game.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why is painting a main requirement for a wargame?

It isn't required for a wargame. It's required for a miniatures game. The aesthetic value of the models is the whole reason we're playing a game with miniatures instead of cardboard tokens like many other wargames use, and miniatures are not finished until they are painted. It's like asking why you should have to put models on the table at all and insisting that you're entitled to use empty bases instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Having fun is in the game, or modeling, or painting. Whatever you enjoy, you should do. But when you try imposing your standard on others, it stops being fun for them.

And when I have to see unpainted models it stops being fun for me. So paint your models and have some respect for my enjoyment.

 Peregrine wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why is painting a main requirement for a wargame?

It isn't required for a wargame. It's required for a miniatures game. The aesthetic value of the models is the whole reason we're playing a game with miniatures instead of cardboard tokens like many other wargames use, and miniatures are not finished until they are painted. It's like asking why you should have to put models on the table at all and insisting that you're entitled to use empty bases instead.

I'm sorry, I don't remember anything in the 40K rulebook, or any rulebook saying painting is required.