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Thoughts on the apocalypse boxes
https://youtu.be/rEsIPuGqUik

what do you guys think about them and what one do you think is the best

Hmm, let me just scroll down to the Dark Eldar one...

...oh.

The knight box is just buy a do minus get 2 helverins. So I'm kinda glad I held off on getting one

I have no official GW release yet, as a Custodes player, BUT, they do have a rules set. Which baffles me. But also scares me.

A squad of Castellan Guard, our basic troop, can laugh off a round of shooting from a knight and then drop 6-10 wounds on it.

Pre-ordered the Chaos one. I need more CSM for my 30k Alpha Legion army and I get a free Lord and some bikes out of the deal. Not sure what I'll do with the bikes but I can probably figure out something.

Tyranid box looks good fun to my eye if someone wants a block of big bugs to throw down on the table. The price of it basically means that you get a the carnifex for free, so that's a very solid deal considering fex are solid toolbox choices (even more so if you magnetize the arms).

Meanwhile you've got trygon/mawlock; swarmlord/hive tyrant/winged tyrant; tervigon/ tyrannofex all in the box too. That's a wealth of model choices to construct.



I agree with the video that many are not for beginners, but then Apoc is just not aimed at beginners at all. It's aimed at people who have big collections and vast numbers of models or at groups of people who are pooling their clubs models to create a mega battle.
I see the boxes as a nice discount option for their respective armies. They are somewhat random, but then at this kind of market target (experienced collectors/gamers) then there are way more choices that are desirable; because people start to approach army building differently.


The Tyranid box is also historically interesting because in the past Tyranids did have a mega box army deal which was basically all gaunt focused, so its nice to see one that is heavy on the monsters instead.





Now if GW made those bio/pyrovore and lictore/deathleaper kits in plastic we could have a really chock full of fun "elites/support" boxed set one day

That being said, take a look at the new Sly Marbo ruleset!

He can threaten anything on the board, at any time.

They're okay deals...much better if you can snag one online from a retailer ($144 USD w/ free shipping).

The Eldar one just serves to highlight the poor condition that range is in, but Wraith units are cool, so...a nice way to get those sorted if you don't have them. Unfortunately those components are available in other areas for as-cheap.

 Elbows wrote:

The Eldar one just serves to highlight the poor condition that range is in, but Wraith units are cool, so...a nice way to get those sorted if you don't have them. Unfortunately those components are available in other areas for as-cheap.

The Eldar box sets often do, but this one perhaps less than most - I mean, these Apocalypse boxes seem to mostly be built around spamming one particular unit or theme, so a box spamming Wraithguard and Wraithlords fits in with the rest of them.

Anyway, on the whole I like these boxes, though the spammy nature of a lot of them perhaps slightly reduces their wider appeal than if they had a broader range of units. Generally I'm happy with any box that provides a discount because I barely play, so I'm just happy to get a load of cool models for cheap, as opposed to the folks who care more about how useful the models will be for their army.

Of most interest to me are the Eldar - because I've got a huge Eldar collection and I find it difficult to turn down new Eldar models, regardless of the fact that I've already got plenty of Wraith units. I already have the Spiritseer, but I'd like at least one more for kitbashing, so if I was going to buy that model separately anyway, the discount on the wraiths starts to look even better (at super-discounted FLGS prices of course). Also the Knights, because I've got Renegade (still on sprue) as the start of my Knight house, so a box containing a Castellan and two Armigers is an almost tailor-made expansion to two Questoris.

I like the units in the Ork and Tyranid boxes. Both are factions that I'd be interested in collecting, but I've got far too much stuff to do to even contemplate buying into a new faction.

The Necron one is pretty good for a beginner, and pretty terrible for apocalypse. Lightweight fast attack units again, really? How about a CCB, 2 Monoliths and a T-C'tan? (with actually good rules). Or a T-Vault and 2 Doomsday Arks?

My complaint with this is the same complaint I have every time they release these types of cost saving kits... they are often good for little more than allowing players to start a Marine army.

There isn't a Dark Eldar one, but we all know that if they did get one it would be nothing but 2 ravagers, 2 raiders, 2 talos, and 2 kabalite kits. Unless they get something in their article, they don't have anything to give them any 'oomph' in Apocc.

Eldar are a waste because their Apocc box is effectively just a few of their pre-existing start collecting box. So Eldar players likely don't need anything in this box. Orks are kinda the same because their start collecting box has a dread and their kans are easy to get. Necron are probably the only Xenos range that's a good buy.

GW really needs to expand their Xenos lines. Especially Eldar and Dark Eldar. Armies without an apocc worthy unit (like Dark Eldar) should get one. And these kits should be doing more to push alternative army builds instead of just pushing Marines. An Apocc formation for Eldar that didn't include Wraith units for example. I realize that's impossible though because nearly their entire model line needs to be redone.

Thing is what is the ideal box for any army?

Ask casual gamers and you'll get a myriad of random answers mostly based on what they want and think is cool that they don't own yet.

Ask meta-game players and you'll get a slightly smaller random list based on both what they see as the "meta powerful options" and "what they don't currently own in their collection".

That's remembering that there is no single meta and that often as not debate on it can go in circles with some armies. Plus the fact that these are focused on Apoc - a rules system that currently (under these new rules) has no meta. So its mostly running on the 40K apparent meta concepts right now.






GW can make boxes with anything in and some people would not like them. Heck they could even put one of everything in the box and some would still dislike them.

In the end they are all very good discounts on the models, even more so if bought from 3rd parties; but even from GW central they offer a good saving on cost. So if you like the army and want them go for it. If not then hold back and you won't miss much.

Asides for which remember this is Apoc anyway and things are a little different and a little nuts; there is no end-game points cap like there is with standard play where it tends to focus on 2K points. Apoc can be 5K, 10K, 20K, 30..50.100K!

The one knock I will give them, which I forgot to mention is that they cross over the Start Collecting boxes a bit. The nice thing about some of the previous Christmas Battleforces were that they explicitly didn't duplicate the Start Collecting boxes --- and thus were a more expensive "next step" which I thought was cool (and is something GW should keep in production permanently). You bought the $95 starter box....now here's the $150 next step with more units you don't own.

These don't follow that premise, and while understandable (aimed at Apoc) it's a bit unfortunate. Would have been a nice deal sweetener for some new players. 40K is not a particularly cheap game but if you could recommend a new player to invest around $220 (with discounts) to get a playable army of around 1200-1500 points it's an easier sell.

God I am glad I play this game for fun....jesus....I would hate to see what my blood pressure would look like like if I were like so many others on the forums. :-)

The ork box is bloated by two characters (the basic mek is objectively bad value). Real shame that you end up sinking a lot of value into overpriced character models when a box like this could of been good for building a walker army.

The Tau box sets are generally always good value propositions and this one is no exception. That said with start collecting being a good way to get cost effective XV8, Fire Warriors (and make your own XV8 Commanders) it seems like a bit of a missed opportunity with another box set having loads of crisis suits.

As much as they aren't a half bad value, I don't think I will be getting any of them as they are kind too much stuff for me who already has too much backlog.

As someone currently building a Primaris only space marine army I could use about half the contents (a squad of Intercessors, the Captain and Dreadnought at most). I already have 18 Intercessors and another 30 is just way too many for me at this point. Similarly, the Chaos Space Marine box would be nice, but I already have 20 of the new marines (that I still need to finish painting) and like 30-40 of the old ones. At this point, I am simply getting too bogged down in stuff I have to paint to take on that volume of stuff. Especially since summer traditionally is when I slow down on my painting.

But that doesn't make them bad sets. I just would either split a box with someone or just buy the kits I want down the road when I can actually get around to building/painting them.

I think the best kit is probably the knights. That one seriously tempted me since I don't have any, and I think they would work as okay terrain pieces/narrative objectives in addition to allies. Not to mention, it has been a good long while since I painted a non-infantry model. I don't think I will pick it up since I don't have a direct use for them at this point. Instead, I think I will be getting the repulsor executioner which does appear to fit quite well into my Primaris army that was both wanting anti-armor and a vehicle.

Again, I am just not in the position to take in such a large serge of models that they sets have at this point. I think they are pretty good but a little overly repetitive in the models included, but that makes sense given they are to support Apocalypse.

Nvs wrote:
My complaint with this is the same complaint I have every time they release these types of cost saving kits... they are often good for little more than allowing players to start a Marine army.

There isn't a Dark Eldar one, but we all know that if they did get one it would be nothing but 2 ravagers, 2 raiders, 2 talos, and 2 kabalite kits. Unless they get something in their article, they don't have anything to give them any 'oomph' in Apocc.

Eldar are a waste because their Apocc box is effectively just a few of their pre-existing start collecting box. So Eldar players likely don't need anything in this box. Orks are kinda the same because their start collecting box has a dread and their kans are easy to get. Necron are probably the only Xenos range that's a good buy.

GW really needs to expand their Xenos lines. Especially Eldar and Dark Eldar. Armies without an apocc worthy unit (like Dark Eldar) should get one. And these kits should be doing more to push alternative army builds instead of just pushing Marines. An Apocc formation for Eldar that didn't include Wraith units for example. I realize that's impossible though because nearly their entire model line needs to be redone.

except that for starting a marine army it's kinda "eh" it;'s a captain, 30 intercessors, and a dreadnought, it'd be a lot more intreasting a deal if it was 20 intercessors and 10 hellblasters.

No Daemon one so...whoopdeedo.

The CSM line feels good to me starting Black Legion from fresh. I kinda wished it was included with havocs instead of bikers though. Especially since havocs and csm kits are interchangeable. Either way, I will be looking forward to use this chance to start some CSM stuff.

Havok kits are CSM kits are less interchangable then you might think. the arms and stuff are yeah (which admittingly is whats important) just be aware havoks are a lot bigger then CSMs and have a bigger base size so no more "buying a pack of havoks to be a quick "drop in heavy weapon as needed" for a CSM squad

BrianDavion wrote:
Havok kits are CSM kits are less interchangable then you might think. the arms and stuff are yeah (which admittingly is whats important) just be aware havoks are a lot bigger then CSMs and have a bigger base size so no more "buying a pack of havoks to be a quick "drop in heavy weapon as needed" for a CSM squad

Thanks for that, its good to know the bodies can't be swapped as I didn't know that. But yeah as long as the weapon swaps fine it should be alright.

Vyrullax wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Havok kits are CSM kits are less interchangable then you might think. the arms and stuff are yeah (which admittingly is whats important) just be aware havoks are a lot bigger then CSMs and have a bigger base size so no more "buying a pack of havoks to be a quick "drop in heavy weapon as needed" for a CSM squad

Thanks for that, its good to know the bodies can't be swapped as I didn't know that. But yeah as long as the weapon swaps fine it should be alright.

yeah you might be able to use the Havok bodies for some things though, I considered using Havok bodies to build my aspiring champions. and Maybe an Exaulted Champion, make them stand out a bit.

 Elbows wrote:
The one knock I will give them, which I forgot to mention is that they cross over the Start Collecting boxes a bit. The nice thing about some of the previous Christmas Battleforces were that they explicitly didn't duplicate the Start Collecting boxes --- and thus were a more expensive "next step" which I thought was cool (and is something GW should keep in production permanently). You bought the $95 starter box....now here's the $150 next step with more units you don't own.

These don't follow that premise.

Eldar aside, they largely do. Chaos and primaris aren't fighting with a start collecting kit at all. Tyranids are probably the next worst after eldar since the trygon is a big chunk of the start collecting, but the rest diverges heavily. Tau share a battlesuit squad, but that's all (and that isn't a bad thing to have two of for a tau army). Orks go in a completely different direction, the only downside to AdMech is that fething Dominus that gets into everything. Necron box is entirely unrelated to the start collecting. Guard adds an additional Russ, but fills out beyond that with command, transport and Heavy weapons. Knights are, of course, just get free Mini-Knights with a standard Castellan.

Most of these ARE a good next step. Unless you don't want the specific units in your army, but that's a different issue.

The eldar one is a problem though, but it's a problem of GW gakking the range and apparently being terrified to produce anything that isn't wraith or guardian related. That they felt they had to toss in an exclusive model strikes me as a bad sign. It was once one of the most popular armies, but they've let e central premise (Aspects) rot for far too long.

Eldar are clearly in the firing lines for a new big model update at some point - the big issue is GW simply fitting such a big release in. Whilst they've shifted production to allow them to do more releases through the year they still have roughly the same cap on their capacity to produce full army sized releases. So Eldar are stuck waiting but I'm sure GW wants to push them through to modern plastic designs - many of their non-wraith plastics are super old whilst their specialist troops are all finecast - a material GW wants out of their system when they can

The Eldar and marine boxes have the same problem. Too similarly aligned/duplicative to a recent starter set. I already have a ton of Intercessors between Dark Imperium, and Wake the Dead

Guard one is fun. If I buy it I’ll convert the Chinera into a Salamander Command Vehicle to buff my superheavies.

I like them, but I have a massive pile of shame as is so I won't be adding to it any time soon (that's a lie).

I really like the big nids box.

Breton wrote:
The Eldar and marine boxes have the same problem. Too similarly aligned/duplicative to a recent starter set. I already have a ton of Intercessors between Dark Imperium, and Wake the Dead

although if you missed wake the dead the marine one isn't bad for multipart full set models.

liking too many of these. Definitely after the Chaos one, as I want some of those new CSM, and a free set of bikes is good for me, as is the free Lord/Sorc. I'm gonna snag a box of Havocs to bulk out the Heavy Weapons options, and have a few options to convert some more chaincannons coming.

the Guard one is great, I'm just unsure if I'm going to convert them to GSC or Traitor Guard/R&H. Maybe be cheeky and do some non-specific conversions that should work for both.

The Tau one would round out the suit selection I've had in my head for a while, but the Knight one is very appealing as I've been fancying building a big boi lately. Again, might be able to work it up in such a way that it'd work as either an Imperial or Chaos one...we'll see.

They are all good for Apocalypse, as is their intent.