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Made in gb
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker





Luton, England

HI all, just a quick question about how you would feel playing against the following Forgeworld Recon marines as Counts as Eliminators?


I've nothing against the actual Eliminator model, they are great looking sculpts, its not price either as these are likely more expensive for less options.

I've got a complete space marines army, by that I mean I have at least one of every unit in the book (alot more of some) not including primaris marines.

Its not that I don't like Primaris models, some of them are awesome. I'm admittedly not a huge fan of the fluff but I could get around that if I needed to.

Their are two main reasons for me not wanting to get any Primaris, first up is space/financial. I have a full marine army and don't have space for or want to spend the money on a whole other very similar force. The second is that they look silly next to my old marines, which look silly is down to personal opinion but I know my OCD wouldn't let me play both on the field or have both next to each other in my cabinet.


Which bring me to the counts as. Most primaris units are updated (generally slightly better) versions of regular marines, this is fine I'm happy to use my normal marines. Thing is I'd really like a decent sniper unit (scouts are not good snipers!) and I really like the rules for the Eliminators. So I plan of running the recon marines models as counts as Eliminators, I'll call them Sternguard Marksmen and make sure they are mounted on 32mm bases and just use the standing up poses to make them a similar size to the kneeling Eliminators. They have a Bolt sniper rifle, camo cloak and other do-dads to make them look appropriate.

So would you be happy facing the Sternguard Marksmen?
[Thumb - Warhammer-40k-Space-Marines-Blood-Ravens-Forgeworld-Recon.jpg]
Recon Mariness

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/12 07:42:36


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Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

Absolutely, in a friendly why not?

Expect salt and turned up noses at a tournament, where people are trying to wring any advantage they can get. Dakka pretends 90% of games are at tournaments so thought I should add that bit in.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 JohnnyHell wrote:
Absolutely, in a friendly why not?

Expect salt and turned up noses at a tournament, where people are trying to wring any advantage they can get. Dakka pretends 90% of games are at tournaments so thought I should add that bit in.

Competitive players are the least likely to care about a Counts As compared to the casual that insists you use everything exact. Nice try though.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Using Inks and Washes




U.k

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Absolutely, in a friendly why not?

Expect salt and turned up noses at a tournament, where people are trying to wring any advantage they can get. Dakka pretends 90% of games are at tournaments so thought I should add that bit in.

Competitive players are the least likely to care about a Counts As compared to the casual that insists you use everything exact. Nice try though.


I’m with Johnny. You got this twisted about.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





I imagine so long as they where on the same base size there would be no issue.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Hanoi, Vietnam.

I've nothing to add to the competitive/casual debate, as I really have no experience with tournaments, but as the question was would I be happy playing against your "Sternguard Marksmen," then the answer is absolutely, yes! I can probably speak for everyone at my friendly local and say that they would too.
   
Made in ca
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





British Columbia

No problem here. Sniper Marine is Sniper Marine.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
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Made in gb
Mysterious Techpriest




United Kingdom

 WisdomLS wrote:
make sure they are mounted on 32mm bases

IIRC Eliminators are on 40s.

 WisdomLS wrote:
So would you be happy facing the Sternguard Marksmen?

Probably yes - you seem to be doing it to fit in with the rest of your army rather than modelling for advantage.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/12 08:30:08


 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Absolutely, in a friendly why not?

Expect salt and turned up noses at a tournament, where people are trying to wring any advantage they can get. Dakka pretends 90% of games are at tournaments so thought I should add that bit in.

Competitive players are the least likely to care about a Counts As compared to the casual that insists you use everything exact. Nice try though.


Except competive ones are the ones likely to go nuts over MFA. These would have advantage in game over official models so...

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/08/23/tneva82-isengard-vs-last-alliance/ <- lotr painting blog

11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Perfectly happy to play vs them.

As a tournament player I can't imagine anyone else having a problem with them either. There are plenty of "particular" individuals who play 40k but in my experience there is no correlation with how competitive they are. A tournament player might insist on base size being correct when determining how many units can attack in combat, but you would have no problem here.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Norway.

you did work on them, and I can see what they are by glancing at them. So unless you got similar capes on other marines on the board, then no problem whatsoever. Bonus points for looking cool.
But to avoid any waac players, always send pictures for approval before a tournament

-Wibe. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Only issue I could see with people is base size and model size. The eliminators are basically Ogres in armour on a 40mm base. They actually look a little ridiculous (especially the kneeling one)
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Do you know what datasheet you are playing them as? Are you consistent with your utilization of said datasheet, and dont get them confused with other units/models on the table?

If yes, I dont care one whit what they look like. Throw the dice and have some fun.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/12 13:04:44


 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






i mena as long as they are the only in power armor snipers with cloaks then no problem.

now is you had identical squads of (not sure if this is even a thing anymore for rules but) this squad is marine recon fw models and this squad is the new primaris snipers and they look the same then... i would still play it but be confused probably at some point

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Made in it
Regular Dakkanaut




Absolutely.
   
Made in gb
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker





Luton, England

Thanks for all the reply's, it would seem that most people would be happy to play against them in a pickup game as they are armed correctly and don't look like any of the other units that maybe on the field.

My only concern now is model size, I had assumed that a kneeling Eliminator would be about the same height as a space marine if not shorter but if they are on 40mm is seems they maybe somewhat larger :-/

Does anyone have an eliminator and a regular marine side by side pic so I can see a comparison?

I don't really want standard marines on 40mm as they would look silly, may have to use some tactical terrain to bulk out the bases.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





As long as they're not anywhere close to anything else in your list. If you had a bunch of Sternies and Sniper Scouts and whatever else, but this one squad is really Eliminators, but that other squad of cloaked marksmen are Sternies, and that other squad are Sniper Scouts, etc... things get weird.

But most people will look at those models, first think "Wow, those look cool!". Their second thought will likely be "Sniper Scouts, but in Power Armor? What are you running them as"? The only difference between competitive and casual players is how quickly they respond with that second thought.

You'll only really have problems if they don't look different enough from your other doods, someone is being extra salty, or someone is trying to ruleslawyer you for advantage.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

I'm doing something similar with Marine Sniper Scouts. I originally got 1 set of Shadowspear Elimiators, one for me and one for each of my boys.
They've been sitting unpainted since we got them, but with Eliminators being so good now, I bought a set of Snipe Scouts, put them on bigger bases with rocks for height and slapped some Marine power packs to their backs (as Scouts don't have those, but Eliminators do.

Using the kneeling Eliminator as the unit Sgt, the other 2 squad members stand just a bit taller. Cheap and easy way for them to each get a complete unit.

-

   
Made in gb
Council of 13 Runner Up






My main issue is the sheer size difference.

Eliminators are big boys.

So whilst I'm not adverse to counts-as, that could be interpreted by troublesome opponents as an attempt to model for advantage.

If you model up their base to raise them up to approximate height, you do away with most basis for accusation. But just be aware there's always TFG who'll 'call you out on it', or kick up a fuss after the fact.

I mean, TFG will do that at the drop of a hat anyway, because that's just what TFG does.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Tyrant of Badab






HATE Club, East London

I'd be fine with you using them as long as you weren't then arguing the toss over every little borderline thing as the game goes on (especially stuff that involves them). If you are fun to play against, no problem. If you are a bit of a gamey douche, then no

Though my guards may sleep and my ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire. 
   
Made in es
Death-Dealing Devastator



Madrid, Spain

Well, I'm one of those "suspension of disbelief" guys.
These models have regular marine size, but two wounds? Why? Do you have any "in character" explanation?
For me it's important.
   
Made in ca
Focused Fire Warrior




Canada

If you changed it to 40mm base at a tourny or if we counted them as having 40mm bases in a casual game sure
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






 JohnnyHell wrote:
Absolutely, in a friendly why not?

Expect salt and turned up noses at a tournament, where people are trying to wring any advantage they can get. Dakka pretends 90% of games are at tournaments so thought I should add that bit in.


I still don't see a problem here, even for a tournament. I've been to LVO three times and seen WAY more sketchy "counts" as attempts.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I run my SG with "counts as" powerfists all the time at events.
   
Made in gb
Road-Raging Blood Angel Biker





Luton, England

DanielFM wrote:
Well, I'm one of those "suspension of disbelief" guys.
These models have regular marine size, but two wounds? Why? Do you have any "in character" explanation?
For me it's important.


That is important for me too, one of the reasons for not wanting three random primaris marines in my force of old style marines :-)

My fluff explanation is that they are the best of the best Sternguard, given the best weapons and gear available. They are veteran, veterans and hence have the extra wound.

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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





Modelling for advantage...I don't get it. They're going to want to shoot stuff right? If they're too short to be shot at behind something, they're too short to shoot over it.
I'd be fine playing against these dudes.

Take a look at what I've been painting and modelling: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/725222.page 
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





I love the models and the concept works. Be sure that there are no other units they could be confused with (I don't think so).
Additionally, you could perhaps mount them on a slightly more elaborated base (say, the cork that models rocks), in order to make them slightly taller, at the level of the models they are supposed to represent.
In that way, you have (1) a nice base to paint (2) no risk of accusations of modelling for advantage.
You should in no way think this is mandatory, just a thought.
EDIT: I just realized Doc already suggested that. Oh well.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/12 16:01:14


"One must have chaos in oneself to give birth to such heresy" - Nietzsche 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gig Harbor, WA

Eliminators are on a 40mm base. Those look like 25mm, which is way too small.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'd be cool with it, but would understand why someone might not.

 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 argonak wrote:
Eliminators are on a 40mm base. Those look like 25mm, which is way too small.
Arguable, only the kneeling Elims should be on 40mm. The standing ones would look just fine on 32s, which is the route I've taken for my Scout conversions.

But for "purists", GW has them all on 40s. And I'd recommend 40mms with some basing that elevates the Marines for anyone using the OP's suggested models.
Although it may not be needed since most of the GW Eliminators are kneeling, which standing non-Primaris Marines are the same height or taller than.

-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/12 16:28:01


   
 
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