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Oh right, the fist of khorne, that would be hilarious if the opponent castles up.

Basically. So if the rest of the army is fully geared to encourage castling, they can't make a good choice

andysonic1 wrote:Wrong. At the start of the bearers shooting phase you can activate it. You can't reposition and fire, but if the enemy kept things close they screwed up.

Latro_ wrote:
https://warofsigmar.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/blogging/picture5/1468/iron_1.jpg

You guyz are right! Seems legit than. Especially with all those knights and gladiuses around.

 Latro_ wrote:
Anyone tried the IW Cranium Malevolus out yet? it seems pretty sweet on a character in a rhino/LR?

Its the any vehicles within 2d6 in the shooting phase get a haywire hit...

Assuming you'd measure from the hull of a rhino...

Its a bit pricey but seems like it could be hella fun

It is a good counter to Gladius but you'd have to make points for it.

 Roknar wrote:
Oh right, the fist of khorne, that would be hilarious if the opponent castles up.

Actually it would be completely useless since most castles have bubble wrap. The whole point of bringing anything besides assaulting units is to remove the bubble wrap before the assaults, not turn assaults to 11 and then break off the knob. Turn one deep striking meltas, novas, or what-have-you will remove the wrapping paper so you can get to the goodies inside with your axes.

The claw does both. It can crash into their bubble wrapped vehicles, hit them with D then be move the minimum distance, aka outside the bubblewrap. The eye of night doesn't care about bubblewrap so hits whatever you want it to and then the termies and raptors can clear the bubblewrap for the zerkers. Alternatively keep the zerketrs inside if there is a lot of squishy stuff for the S6 nova attack.

Can you drop the claws and fit a warband instead? Fore more reliable wrapping paper removal? After all you have a 20 strong zerker unit charging turn 1 already, no hiding from them.

*edit* Actually nvm the warband, no reason to castle up in the first place if you go with the warband.

That would work, if you could ensure you landed on the enemy vehicles, which you can't. Regardless, the 79 AP- attacks from the zerkers if you choose not to multi-charge are still AP-. You can give the champ something hefty like a Powerfist and cross your fingers that his five attacks carry the day. You're also still relying on everything not scattering far from where you want it to go. I'd say 50% of your games with a list like this will turn out the way you want them to.

Or ap4. .. I'll get my coat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There are ways and means to link in other characters for a bit more oomph. Speartip raptor talon could work...

WATCH OUT GUARDSMEN HERE COMES THE CHAINAXE TRAIN CHOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOO oh wait they're in their metal boxes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit to your edit

Yes, you can always slingshot your lords in IF they are on foot and able to reach your pod, which with the way you can conga line 20 guys shouldn't be an issue. However you'd be better off using WE lords since they will definitely get to the conga line.

AND EVEN THEN, even slingshotting lords in all day, you still need to remove the bubble wrap. Can you fit a Fist of Khorne, a WE Butcherhorde, and a BL Spear Tip in a list?

Well you can't have ... Everything. But you can fit some characters and some close range shooting if you try.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Well you can't have ... Everything. But you can fit some characters and some close range shooting if you try.

It just feels like you're (not YOU, just the general you're) stretching the army too thin trying to fit in a Fist.

...anyways, I think WE + IW as someone else suggested might work more synergistically.

Oh its totally me. Can't afford a Kharybdis tho.

WE +IW is a fine idea.

So I think I'm finally happy with my list once and for all. I suppose if I replaced the Scrolls & Familiar w/ the Script of Erebus, I could add an extra cultist to each unit, add extra CCWs to the Marines and buy a Disc or ML 3 for the Herald. Ultimately I'm happy with Scrolls though. Planning to test this tomorrow.

++Word Bearers Grand Host [Primary]++
+Chaos Warband+
Sorcerer of Nurgle on Palanquin w/ Force Axe, ML 3, The Malefic Tome - 190 [Warlord]
Tzeentch Lord on Disc w/ Lightning Claw/Powerfist, Sigil of Corruption, Scrolls of Magnus and Spell Familiar - 235

5 CSM: 1 Bolter, 1 Meltagun/Extra CCW, 2 Bolt Pistol/CCW, Champion w/ Combi-Melta - 97
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade & Dirge Caster - 45
5 CSM: 1 Bolter, 1 Meltagun/Extra CCW, 2 Bolt Pistol/CCW, Champion w/ Combi-Melta - 97
-Rhino w/ Dozer & Dirge Caster - 45

3 Terminators w/ Combi-Plasma and Power Axe - 112
3 Terminators w/ Combi-Plasma and Power Axe - 112

3 Bikers of Slaanesh w/ 2 Bike-Mounted Meltaguns and Champ w/ Lance - 111
3 Bikers of Slaanesh w/ 2 Bike-Mounted Meltaguns and Champ w/ Lance - 111

Helbrute w/ Multimelta - 100

+Spawn+
2 Spawn - 60
2 Spawn - 60

++Helcult++
Helbrute w/ Multimelta - 100
20 Cultists, 2 Flamers - 100
20 Cultists, 2 Flamers - 100

++Daemon Ally Detachment++
Herald of Tzeentch w/ ML 2, Paradox, and Exalted Locus of Conjuration - 120
11 Blue Horrors - 55

Total: 1850

it looks pretty good but i have a couple of questions/comments:

Why nurgle on the sorc?
3++ is not that desirable for the lord unless you want him for the disc, other than that i say you throw MOS or no mark and put him with the bikes

i would run the cultists barebones and use the 10 points elsewhere like melta bombs

why would you use power lance? I would rather use a power sword since you have MOS, but i think nurgle would be better for the bikers

i think you should drop some ccw on the marines, because at the end of the day they are still marines and there are only 5 of them. i also think you are investing too much in your rhinos, if they are meant to push up the board then they shouldn't have havoc launchers

with the extra points i say turn that allies of daemons to a cad. GL

 andysonic1 wrote:
That would work, if you could ensure you landed on the enemy vehicles, which you can't. Regardless, the 79 AP- attacks from the zerkers if you choose not to multi-charge are still AP-. You can give the champ something hefty like a Powerfist and cross your fingers that his five attacks carry the day. You're also still relying on everything not scattering far from where you want it to go. I'd say 50% of your games with a list like this will turn out the way you want them to.

Well if there are vehicles, you're almost certain to hit them given the ginormous size of a kharybdis. It's roughly 10 inch in diameter, but this is assuming you can pick a spot to deepstrike without having to set down the kharybdis first as opposed to scattering onto them. It's allowed here, but I keep forgetting that it's a houserule.

Either way though, any list including a fist of khorne is more for fun than anything. 20 Zerkers are just too expensive and inefficient imho.
Nevermind banking on your opponent castling up. But it sure would look awesome when the dice gods are on your side.
The same is true for the speartip in general. To make good use of it requires a lot of deepstriking units, which is gamble at best.
Fluffy and it should be pretty devastating if it works out, but it's not exactly a reliable strategy.

 -v10mega wrote:
it looks pretty good but i have a couple of questions/comments:

Why nurgle on the sorc?
3++ is not that desirable for the lord unless you want him for the disc, other than that i say you throw MOS or no mark and put him with the bikes

i would run the cultists barebones and use the 10 points elsewhere like melta bombs

why would you use power lance? I would rather use a power sword since you have MOS, but i think nurgle would be better for the bikers

i think you should drop some ccw on the marines, because at the end of the day they are still marines and there are only 5 of them. i also think you are investing too much in your rhinos, if they are meant to push up the board then they shouldn't have havoc launchers

with the extra points i say turn that allies of daemons to a cad. GL

The Palanquin of Nurgle adds 2 wounds to the Sorcerer. Gives him some leeway when summoning, since he's not a Daemon and will suffer from Perils otherwise! Also, Lore of Nurgle is now actually a really neat support discipline, with 3 really neat blessings: I can either heal a character for D3 wounds, get a power that's either like Enfeeble or a reverse Enfeeble, or give a unit Poison attacks. Imagine 20 Zealot Cultists with Poison 4+ attacks on the charge for a moment.

The Lord is Obsec. The Disc adds another attack and gives the option to split off to cap an objective or jump over an enemy unit. Scrolls are so he's a backup caster (I wanted 2 Psykers in my Warband). Last game, he killed 2 Arena Champs, a Sybarite and Solarite with a Sunburst and got to make 8 rolls for Chaos Boons!

Marines have their loadout so I have flexibility, for shooting or melee. For shooting before assault/assault itself, the Bolter Marine gets to do grenade duty.

Cultists are pretty neat when 100% fearless, when they also get Crusader. Plus 20 models and 2 flamers for 100 is rather nice.

Lance is +1 Strength on the charge. Combine with Voice of Lorgar or Curse of the Leper, that's S6 on the charge.

The Rhinos have Dirge Casters, not Havocs. This lets them shut down Overwatch.

 Roknar wrote:
It's roughly 10 inch in diameter, but this is assuming you can pick a spot to deepstrike without having to set down the kharybdis first as opposed to scattering onto them. It's allowed here, but I keep forgetting that it's a houserule.

Houserule Schmouserule . Deep strike say place your model where you would like it to arrive, and the Meteoric Decent lets you land on building or vehicles (but.. not anything else) without mishap.

Quick question guys, with the black legion, wich one is better: 9 chaos bikes with mark of nurgle or 10 chosen with 4 melta in a rhino? Bikes are more resilient but the chosen give me Objective Secured and they are a bit better at shooting and in melee

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
It's roughly 10 inch in diameter, but this is assuming you can pick a spot to deepstrike without having to set down the kharybdis first as opposed to scattering onto them. It's allowed here, but I keep forgetting that it's a houserule.

Houserule Schmouserule . Deep strike say place your model where you would like it to arrive, and the Meteoric Decent lets you land on building or vehicles (but.. not anything else) without mishap.

You're playing a little fast and loose with the rules there. The BRB wording for deep striking says:

"First, place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position where you would like it to arrive, and roll for scatter to determine the model's final position."

You are required to place the model on the table. You cannot place models on other models. Therefore, you cannot place deep striking models of any kind on any other models. The Meteoric Decent rule does NOT let you land on buildings or vehicles, it tells you what happens if you happen to scatter onto them, whereby you deal a D strength hit and then move the model to a place where it can land. You cannot, unless you are Nids, deep strike on top of other models. You would have to houserule being able to place the pod on units. Being able to do so would make it much more powerful than it currently is.

Yea, it's def a houserule, in this case for the kharybdis in particular. The RAW definately doesn't allow it, but mirroring the nid thing seemed more appropriate in this case.

 Roknar wrote:
Yea, it's def a houserule, in this case for the kharybdis in particular. The RAW definately doesn't allow it, but mirroring the nid thing seemed more appropriate in this case.

I 100% agree that you should be able to purposefully land the thing on enemy units since the formation has rules that specifically intend that outcome.

 andysonic1 wrote:

"First, place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position where you would like it to arrive, and roll for scatter to determine the model's final position."

You are required to place the model on the table. You cannot place models on other models. Therefore, you cannot place deep striking models of any kind on any other models. The Meteoric Decent rule does NOT let you land on buildings or vehicles, it tells you what happens if you happen to scatter onto them, whereby you deal a D strength hit and then move the model to a place where it can land. You cannot, unless you are Nids, deep strike on top of other models. You would have to houserule being able to place the pod on units. Being able to do so would make it much more powerful than it currently is.

Meteoric Decent does not mention scatter at all (fast and loose indeed!). The intent of the rule is perfectly clear. The placement thing I agree with in principle, except where the rule requires it to function. Not everything has to be rules lawyered to death.

Also, as per the new FAQ
Q: If a flyer which is forced to move 18" forwards due to an
Immobilised result ends its move over an enemy unit, does it
‘Crash and Burn!’?
A: No. Use the ‘Wobbly Model Syndrome’ rule, clearly
indicating where the model’s actual position is on
the table

So there are examples where models can be placed on models if the situation demands it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 piratepizzadog wrote:
Quick question guys, with the black legion, wich one is better: 9 chaos bikes with mark of nurgle or 10 chosen with 4 melta in a rhino? Bikes are more resilient but the chosen give me Objective Secured and they are a bit better at shooting and in melee

I think the mobility and durability of bikes probably wins out. The rhino could give away easy first blood (IF you aren't using rhino's anyway). I guess it depends on the makeup of your list therewith. e.g. MSU or using the cabal to death star up.

What are peoples opinion on a DG Terminator Annihilation Force? Is it worth the points?

If so, should you also pick termies as a tax unit in a chaos warband?

saruon wrote:
What are peoples opinion on a DG Terminator Annihilation Force? Is it worth the points?

If so, should you also pick termies as a tax unit in a chaos warband?

Most DG units are pretty good. It's a fair old chunk of points tho.
With 3 terminator units already I don't see why you'd take a fourth. DG chosen are a solid option.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

"First, place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position where you would like it to arrive, and roll for scatter to determine the model's final position."

You are required to place the model on the table. You cannot place models on other models. Therefore, you cannot place deep striking models of any kind on any other models. The Meteoric Decent rule does NOT let you land on buildings or vehicles, it tells you what happens if you happen to scatter onto them, whereby you deal a D strength hit and then move the model to a place where it can land. You cannot, unless you are Nids, deep strike on top of other models. You would have to houserule being able to place the pod on units. Being able to do so would make it much more powerful than it currently is.

Meteoric Decent does not mention scatter at all (fast and loose indeed!). The intent of the rule is perfectly clear. The placement thing I agree with in principle, except where the rule requires it to function. Not everything has to be rules lawyered to death.

Also, as per the new FAQ
Q: If a flyer which is forced to move 18" forwards due to an
Immobilised result ends its move over an enemy unit, does it
‘Crash and Burn!’?
A: No. Use the ‘Wobbly Model Syndrome’ rule, clearly
indicating where the model’s actual position is on
the table

So there are examples where models can be placed on models if the situation demands it.

You're right that the Meteoric Decent does not mention scatter. However, your example is not related to the topic. In my example, Mawlocs are explicitly allowed to deep strike on other units to deal their deep strike damage. If this was the intention of the Fist of Khorne, it would have been explicitly written. You could argue that GW are just terrible at making sure all the rules of the formations actually work together or keeping rules consistent, but that's another argument. While the intent of Meteoric Decent may seem like you should be allowed to land directly on enemy units, there is no explicit rule or FAQ that allows it. It's not rules lawyering, it's rules as written.

As with all things "rules as intended", just talk to your opponent or TO before attempting. It would certainly make the formation many times more powerful if it was written to allow you to land on enemy models, but it does not.

I've had a game with a khorne warband with 10 footslogging termies + lord, alpha legion lost and the damned + iron warrior couple oblis and sorcs cad VS white scars with 2 grav cent squads in pods with an ignore cover chapter master, sister of silence formation with 6 squads carrying ap2 swords and some other stuff. Termies won by a large margin via maelstorm. Was a fun game.

Nice. How did the Terminators fare as far as being an in-game threat?

Didn't get a game in but hopefully will soon. The more I think of I5, the more I like the idea of a "mixed loadout" for min CSM:
-Bolter Marine
-2 Pistol/CCW Marines.
-Meltagun/Pistol/CCW Marine.
-Combi-Melta Champ.

This let's me either fire 2 bolters from a Rhino, Melta/combi, do 15/10 attacks in CC. And if I really wish to take pot-shots before assaulting, the Bolter Marine gets to do Grenade duty. Half the reason I'd even do a loadout like this is "4 points leftover" though (two 95-point squads become 97 pts instead), as it feels amusing overall.

I just won a small event using a Nurgle warband with 3 units of terminators. Gave them all combi plas, 2 power fists, and 1 power axe per unit. They did prove very durable even against units of black knights shooting and charging into them. I had 1 in each game die to overheats and several mishaps, but my luck on saving throws was a lot better. They also proved to be great objective grabbers with the ob sec. I don't really see the need for the terminator annihilation force though. I'd just take the number you need from the warband slots.

I don't even bother with the Fists. Axes are just enough.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Nice. How did the Terminators fare as far as being an in-game threat?

They fared surprisingly ok vs an army with 90% stuff being ap2. They're really fuelled by a talisman juggerlord. I also ran an alpha apostle with mindveil which helped out in the right moment.

Termies scouted forward and multicharged 3 units of sisters 1-st turn, i lost 3 termies and lord suffered 3 wounds but wiped 2.5 units. Than as they were still locked in combat, grav cents had to choose another target and wiped all my mages and bikes - that i separated from the main deathstar cause sisters of silence get stronger vs units with mages and deny all the buffs anywayz. Than termies got charged by another unit of sisters of silence and due to positioning and their ini5 attacks, they killed another 3 termies before i could strike back - but when termies and lord did strike back, they wiped all but one lucky sister. Than mindveiled 11" towards centurions with a fist chapter master. Charged them wiping the squad - lord did most of the power lifting. Termies did kill a centurion beforehand with combi-meltas and bolters, so it helped out. Than the second centurion squad came from reserves and finished off terminators, however, apostle and lord managed to survive - each of them having 1 wound. They than teamed up with havoks and almost wiped the centurions in mellee - sarge still managed to hit and run with the last wound and than grav away 4 out of 5 havoks. Got finished off shortly after. In the meanwhile oblis were doing ok vs his vehicles, cultists were running around scoring, flaming marines and the rest of the sisters of silence - even managed to kill a couple in mellee. Though, it was an odd dice game. One turn i got 8 ones in a row - including when i needed to charge 3" with cultists, 4" with marines - re-rollable and pass 2 2+ saves with termies vs centurions in mellee. However, it evened out by amazing 4++ with apostle vs grav and the most important 5++ of the termie champ that somehow survived a challenge vs fist chapter master. By the end of the game, there wasn't much left on board on both sides but chaos got so many vp in the 1-st and 2-d round that it was a safe solid victory in the end.

Things that i'd change - meltas for bikes. Were not worth it in like every game i fielded them. I'd rather have an extra body or squeeze some extra pts for a spawn. Not really sure about the cultist formation but the mindveil was golden and i guess 110 pts over for the ability to resurrect from time to time is not a high price to pay for an allready ok unit of cultists with a flamer. I'm still not sure what to do with regular marines. On one hand, bp+ccw seems logical with all those mellee buffs. But it's not the first game where they didn't do anything at all in mellee cause they either couldn't get there or were killed without doing anything - like when 2 sister squads charged them in this game. However, they tend to shoot bolt pistols and throw grenades most of the time. I guess they could really go with bolters still remaining ok in mellee with 3 attacks instead of 4 - and the champ can still have his bp + ccw just in case.

As for termie's performance, they kinda made their points back by tanking wounds with 5++ and dealing a couple ap2 blows here and there but they'd never work without a lord. In this very matchup khornedogs would have been significantly better as deathstar meat for the lord and mages. But termies still have their merits. A chainfist is great vs knights, potential 4 s6 ap2 attacks with hatred per base can even be brutal - especially when it's not unheard of fighting vs 2+ re-rollable - and it's gona be even more often now with all the new imperial moneygrab releases. Dogs are still better overall due to grav and all the ap2 floating around and the fact that dogs get 4 5++ wounds for the price of 1 termie and they can be cheaper. But the fact that new rules have made termies even remotely a considerable option is great on it's own.