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Can some one help me a little. If I charge with a trygon how many attacks do I get. Do the talons lose attacks because of the tail weapons. Also as the effectively have 5 close combat weapons? I guess just how do they work?

Is there any restriction on the direction you have to retreat from combat?

If not Hierodules make screens a joke.

They can:

Shoot the screen
Assault the screen
Force the screen to pile in
Leave combat and move over the top of the screen models towards your opponents table edge
Assault and shoot something else

Hierodules are allowed to move over enemy non Titanic models when falling back and can shoot + assault even if they fell back in the movement phase.

You can fall back in any direction, but nothing forces you to pile in though.

Wich is the BS of a barbed hierodes if it move during the moviment phase ?


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Give me your opinion, what you think about this list ?

1 malanthrope
3 exocrine
2 barbed hierodule
1 scythed hierodule

7 command point

 997Turbo wrote:
99.9% Sure you cannot take IG and Tyranids together.

IG & GSC or Tyranids & GSC....not all three.

I'm looking at the rules for GSC and it says that you literally just ignore the faction of Astra Militarum when you're creating an army that includes AM and GSC models in separate detachments. A little wonky but I think it works

 luke1705 wrote:

 997Turbo wrote:
99.9% Sure you cannot take IG and Tyranids together.

IG & GSC or Tyranids & GSC....not all three.

I'm looking at the rules for GSC and it says that you literally just ignore the faction of Astra Militarum when you're creating an army that includes AM and GSC models in separate detachments. A little wonky but I think it works

That's kinda awesome. I'm strictly bugs here but its sick that we will be able to see a lot of flavor for Nid armies now.

I have been for a long time and I still am for normal games. But guard models (wyverns, heavy quad launchers, etc) really shore up the weakness we have (clearing out chaff units at range beyond 18"). So in a competitive setting, I think that's what I'm going to wind up running

Wyverns look great for us. What is the Heavy Quad Launcher in 8th?

Imagine if the wyvern was T7 but with less wounds, a slightly worse save and slightly cheaper, and with a gun that was slightly higher strength but lost shred. Then you'd have the quad launcher


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I mathed it out and the durability is somewhat of a wash (slightly favors the wyvern). Shred is obviously better than a marginal increase in strength, and the only reason it's more expensive is because the wyvern has to take a heavy bolter. The wyvern does degrade (the quad launcher doesn't) but the launcher's crewmen could potentially be sniped out (this chance lessened with multiple launchers). On the whole, I think either choice is pretty solid, but the wyvern is probably slightly better just due to shred. Hate to say it, but I think I need some of them. Really, I'd love to have some sort of cool conversion for use with my Nids

Are spores viable at all in this edition? I like the concept of them & think it might be fun to drop as a distraction right when things are getting crazy, but have 0 experience. Are they fairly useless and thus, not that fun in an actual game? Thoughts?

Math says Devilgants are double as effective per point invested at killing Infantry.

Of course, there is more to it than just paper stats, and Terms can't apply it from 48" range and likely remain safe doing so to let them do it turn after turn, but I also think you guys should consider having a squad or two of Termagants coming out of Trygon tunnels to alpha down some infantry

 luke1705 wrote:
I have been for a long time and I still am for normal games. But guard models (wyverns, heavy quad launchers, etc) really shore up the weakness we have (clearing out chaff units at range beyond 18"). So in a competitive setting, I think that's what I'm going to wind up running

If you play 2000 pts with a detachment GSC and a detachment AM, will you really have any Tyranids left on the table? You could try to make an examplary list and see if it is at all Tyranid any more.

I've been thinking of a Patrol of GSC of a Magus, and a Throng, and a AM/ Cult of the 4 armed Emp with a couple of Sqds with Missile launchers, a Company Commander to hold the table, and provide long range support, The Nids for the strike force...it seems like a workable build....

Battalion, Patrol x2....8 CP not too shabby...

What is our solution to Stormravens? We can't assault them with most of our units and they're a devil to shoot down. I'm not talking about just 1 or 2... apparently these things are being spammed and winning tournaments.

 Astmeister wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
I have been for a long time and I still am for normal games. But guard models (wyverns, heavy quad launchers, etc) really shore up the weakness we have (clearing out chaff units at range beyond 18"). So in a competitive setting, I think that's what I'm going to wind up running

If you play 2000 pts with a detachment GSC and a detachment AM, will you really have any Tyranids left on the table? You could try to make an examplary list and see if it is at all Tyranid any more.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/730638.page

^^my most current iteration of a tournament Nids list. Less than 400 points aren't Nids

I'm rolling the dice by taking Auxiliary Support detachments (the -1 CP one) for both AM and GSC, bringing me down to 4 CP. I'm not super sold on the GSC portion of it (20 neophytes) because I'd rather have my screen be natively fearless (gants), cheaper per model (conscripts) or both. However, they do have a lot of shots hitting on 4's, and in games that they don't NEED to be a screen, they can cult ambush and either take on the role of the Rippers or come down turn 1 and lay down supporting fire to clear out my opponent's screen. So I guess that's worth the sacrifice of fearless and 3 or 4 points per wound. Also they actually get a 5+ save, unlike the gants. WHY ARE CONSCRIPTS SO CHEAP

What do people think of mawlocks? 105 points seems like a great buy for the wounds. Can pop up anywhere. That is all good.

But it has.only regular scything tallons. Very hard to kill dedicated mellee units (powerfirsts/rending) with it.

Would.love your thoughts!

If the Mawloc is in melee, that's because your opponent assaulted him, not the contrary. You never want your mawlock to be in melee, he should be going up and down every other turn,

For 105 points a model that inflicts a good deal of mortal wounds when he arrives, and must be put in melee or he is going to take a lot of mortal wounds home, is a really good bargain.

 Zimko wrote:
What is our solution to Stormravens? We can't assault them with most of our units and they're a devil to shoot down. I'm not talking about just 1 or 2... apparently these things are being spammed and winning tournaments.

Assault with flyrant - bye bye birdy.


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 Niiai wrote:
What do people think of mawlocks? 105 points seems like a great buy for the wounds. Can pop up anywhere. That is all good.

But it has.only regular scything tallons. Very hard to kill dedicated mellee units (powerfirsts/rending) with it.

Would.love your thoughts!

Hard for me to justify taking it over a trygon. A trygon brings a whole unit with it. Thats a unit that isn't going to get shotup before it does damage + the trygon which is a beast. most my games are over in 3 turns anyways - units like the trygon need a long time to do their damage.

 Zimko wrote:
What is our solution to Stormravens? We can't assault them with most of our units and they're a devil to shoot down. I'm not talking about just 1 or 2... apparently these things are being spammed and winning tournaments.

Flyrants, or mass amounts of hive guard and or biovores. I'm running 6 biovores and I hardly blink at flyers anymore. Even when I miss with Biovores, I basicly still hit do to the flyers auto movement and turn arcs.

 Zimko wrote:
What is our solution to Stormravens? We can't assault them with most of our units and they're a devil to shoot down. I'm not talking about just 1 or 2... apparently these things are being spammed and winning tournaments.

Exocrine should be able to shoot it down in 2 rounds.

Hive guard have a hard time hitting them, but shock cannons simply own vehicles. Biovores are great all the way around.

The problem is spam. 1 Stormraven is not hard to beat, 4-5 can cause a serious problem.

Fragile wrote:
Hive guard have a hard time hitting them, but shock cannons simply own vehicles. Biovores are great all the way around.

The problem is spam. 1 Stormraven is not hard to beat, 4-5 can cause a serious problem.

Indeed - it will be hilarious if Nids turn out to be the same army all over again. Hive tyrant spam.

I go away for a day and the thread keeps exploding! Keep it up guys! Great conversations.

 SHUPPET wrote:

You might wanna check some of your maths here. By "potentially 9" you also mean "potentially 3", you can count that as 6 shots since that's the average, so yeah its still just 24 shots just like the Dakkafex. They are S6 not S5 as well which is relevant against GEQ. Also, that unit of Warriors is 255 points, as opposed to 2x Dakkafexes at 194 points (61 points more expensive), which is over 30% increase of cost. and btw Warriors have the same BS as Carnifexes do unless you bring a Prime, which is even more points. Basically, Dakkafex's will outshoot that Warrior squad and be MUCH more tanky, and are also faster, and thats assuming they were the same points, when the Fexes are actually significantly cheaper.

Are you sure that my math is that bad? I believe the VC is S8 and not 6. That's also 36" range which would be twice that of a Deathspitter. I believe 2x Dakkafexes are 228 pts. That's 67 base + 2x 2 Deathspitters 40 + Thresher Scythe 7 = 114pts x 2 = 228.

The whole point is to run warriors with the Alphas making them that more effective if I'm foot slogging across the board. And I don't buy the whole "tanky" argument considering the Carnifex is more likely to draw fire of the higher wounding -AP weapons than the Warriors will. I'll take the 27 wounds at T4 over the 16 at T7. With the added flexibility of the warriors to either ride in a sweet sweet drop pod festooned with guns or buddy up with the Trygon, I think clearing the "bubble wrap" (new term for me) is more of a task for the Warriors than the Carnifex.


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Fragile wrote:
Hive guard have a hard time hitting them, but shock cannons simply own vehicles. Biovores are great all the way around.

The problem is spam. 1 Stormraven is not hard to beat, 4-5 can cause a serious problem.

I think that's true for most, if not all units in 40K.

Like my old Chapter Master used to say, "If you SPAM IT, they will come!"


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 Niiai wrote:


The fact that we are discussing warriors vs carnifexes in an indication that the codex currently has a very good internal balance.

I second this notion.

GSC have some units that can help us ?

Hive tyrant spam is no longer viable. Storm raven spam apparently is the new flying circus. If you're smart, you may be able to force it into hover mode, but that's tough with such large move values. It is aided by the fact that they can no longer leave the table and still only have 90 degree turn arcs.


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At the end of the day, however, exocrines are still our best shot at beating them. Flyrants could possibly kill them in assault, but it would take at least 2 turns per storm raven. And even then, that's it a likely outcome. Don't depend on flyrants to kill more than 1 flyer

 luke1705 wrote:

 997Turbo wrote:
99.9% Sure you cannot take IG and Tyranids together.

IG & GSC or Tyranids & GSC....not all three.

I'm looking at the rules for GSC and it says that you literally just ignore the faction of Astra Militarum when you're creating an army that includes AM and GSC models in separate detachments. A little wonky but I think it works

People also forget that if you don't mind losing a Command Point, you can even "cheat" the GSC tax by taking one Auxillery Detachment of one Sentinel. You'll lose 1CP, but essentially get carte-blanche to run IG/Nids together.

This weekend at a medium sized tourney i'm running the standard competitive 'Nids with a FW Gunline. I think Quad Mortar Batteries are the secret-sauce to punch through chaff and let 'Nids charge the juiciest targets.


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 luke1705 wrote:
Imagine if the wyvern was T7 but with less wounds, a slightly worse save and slightly cheaper, and with a gun that was slightly higher strength but lost shred. Then you'd have the quad launcher


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I mathed it out and the durability is somewhat of a wash (slightly favors the wyvern). Shred is obviously better than a marginal increase in strength, and the only reason it's more expensive is because the wyvern has to take a heavy bolter. The wyvern does degrade (the quad launcher doesn't) but the launcher's crewmen could potentially be sniped out (this chance lessened with multiple launchers). On the whole, I think either choice is pretty solid, but the wyvern is probably slightly better just due to shred. Hate to say it, but I think I need some of them. Really, I'd love to have some sort of cool conversion for use with my Nids

To be fair, the Quad Mortars are a LOT easier to hide, and can be taken as units to make for fewer drops if you're bidding for first-run, or +1 roll for first-turn.


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 Astmeister wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
I have been for a long time and I still am for normal games. But guard models (wyverns, heavy quad launchers, etc) really shore up the weakness we have (clearing out chaff units at range beyond 18"). So in a competitive setting, I think that's what I'm going to wind up running

If you play 2000 pts with a detachment GSC and a detachment AM, will you really have any Tyranids left on the table? You could try to make an examplary list and see if it is at all Tyranid any more.

Min detachment of GSC can be 40-60pts, and then three Quad Mortars and crews are less than 250pts. So yes, you're still 85% 'Nid.

Hey guys.

I finally put together my first draft 8th edition list. I wanted to go shooty, and devil Guants have always been my favorite work horse unit. Here it is;

Battalion Detachment
Hq
Tervigon w/ st,ss
Tervigon w/ st,ss
2 Malanthrope
Troops
30 termaguants w/ 20 dev
30 termaguants w/ 20 dev
3 rippers
3 rippers
Elite
2 hive guard w/ ic
2 hive guard w/ ic
2 hive guard w/ ic
Heavy
Exocrene/ pl, bpc
Exocrene/ pl, bpc
3 biovores
Total: 1998

I only have Impaler Cannon Hive guard at the moment, though I am not opposed to swapping in the other variants. The rippers are for burrowing objective grabbing. Malanthropes will split apart to give me max coverage. Let me know what you guys think.

Oh, @Luke, I meant to add... Don't forget in your math that Quad Mortar Batteries count as Infantry and Vehicles, whereas Wyverns are just Vehicles.

That means a 30pt Company Commander can issue re-roll 1's to Mortars versus Wyverns who cannot. This also means you don't lose a 2nd CP as you can take a dirt-cheap HQ and three separate Mortars if you're so inclined.

It really puts the two, mathematically at pretty close to even across the board.

Unless I am mistaken, I do not believe you can run GSC with nids. Your entire army must have at least one faction keyword in common, GSC and Tyranids share none if I remember correctly, since tyranids only faction keyword is tyranids. GSC and AM can be in the same faction, even though they dont share a faction keyword as they have a special rule that allows them to do so...

Did GSC have tyranids faction keyword as well? I dont remember seeing it?

I have a bunch of carnifex models from over the years so I'm thinking of trying something like this:

Spearhead Detachment

HQ
Old One Eye

Heavy
Stonecrusher Carnifex with Flail
Stonecrusher Carnifex with Flail
Carnifex with Sything Talon and Crushing Claw
Carnifex with Sything Talon and Crushing Claw

Troop
30 Hormugaunts
30 Hormuguants

Spearhead Detachment

HQ
Malentrhope
Malenthrope

Heavy
Carnifex with 2 Scything Talons
Carnifex with 2 Scything Talons
3 Biovores
3 Biovores
3 Biovores

Troops
3 Warriors with 1 venom cannon
3 Warriors with 1 venom cannon

Fortification Network
1 Sporocyst
1 Sporocyst

Should be exactly 2000.

Basic idea is to use the sporocysts to try to mess with the enemies movement along with the biovores while the gaunt squads move in to try to clear up chaff units and generally get in the way so the carnifexs will have time to reach their targets. Warriors sit back and babysit the biovores. 2 Malenthropes should be able to keep the carnifexs and gaunts buffed.