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 Geifer wrote:


The Imperial Guard is focused on a defensive role, in which a stable firing platform benefits the performance of heavy weapons, while it's all about redundancy and having plenty of soldiers to take over in case the gunner gets shot, so weapon teams are a thing.

Whereas gangers are in it for themselves, rely on themselves and may have to do a fair bit of traveling through narrow passageways and up and down ladders, so they need something a single guy can carry and operate.

A bit like light and heavy machine guns. The gun's the same, but the latter is mounted for stability and the former kept light for mobility.

Would be nice if the big heavies in Necromunda (las cannon, H plama gun, etc.) were toned down a bit in Necromunda to reflect the home built nature of the guns and the rarity of ammo/powerpacks.

T

timd wrote:

 Geifer wrote:


The Imperial Guard is focused on a defensive role, in which a stable firing platform benefits the performance of heavy weapons, while it's all about redundancy and having plenty of soldiers to take over in case the gunner gets shot, so weapon teams are a thing.

Whereas gangers are in it for themselves, rely on themselves and may have to do a fair bit of traveling through narrow passageways and up and down ladders, so they need something a single guy can carry and operate.

A bit like light and heavy machine guns. The gun's the same, but the latter is mounted for stability and the former kept light for mobility.

Would be nice if the big heavies in Necromunda (las cannon, H plama gun, etc.) were toned down a bit in Necromunda to reflect the home built nature of the guns and the rarity of ammo/powerpacks.

T

I can easily see some of the genestealer cult weapons being used, like the mining laser.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
How so? They had one model with a heavy plasma gun and one with a plasma pistol, but so did Van Saar. Looking at the "old Underhive" rulebook, Delaque also had plasma guns and heavy plasma guns in their weapon lists. Nothing in their background mentioned anything about any Houses having a preference for different weapon types.

Flanderization is how.

They had a (very small) heavy Plasma Gun and one chick had a Plasma Pistol. Add a couple of decades and boom, they're the Plasma Gang. Happened with the Dark Angels as well.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
How so? They had one model with a heavy plasma gun and one with a plasma pistol, but so did Van Saar. Looking at the "old Underhive" rulebook, Delaque also had plasma guns and heavy plasma guns in their weapon lists. Nothing in their background mentioned anything about any Houses having a preference for different weapon types.

Flanderization is how.

They had a (very small) heavy Plasma Gun and one chick had a Plasma Pistol. Add a couple of decades and boom, they're the Plasma Gang. Happened with the Dark Angels as well.

And Death Guard, to some extent. Mortarion preferred Melta and Flamer for his Legionnaires, but the models featured a Plasma Gun, so for some reason everyone thinks Death Guard should use Plasma and that's even reflected in the latest minis.

Vorian wrote:
Not really sure how that simplifies vs a D3

'cause it covers of both multi shots and ammo check "needs".

I'd like to see say 2x sustain fire dice for a heavy stubba and a double jam = out of ammo or weapon destroyed. A # + jam = # shots then a jam to clear. You spend the next round either clearing the jam OR you push through firing 1 die and if it jams than it suffers the out/destroyed.

You could incorporate the same with 1 hit weapons. Roll a sustained and only the jam symbol matters when shooting. This adds more "reality" rather than saying a good shot can screw you over.

Besides it means GW can sell more dice! Tracking wouldn't be that bad either as you would need not that many per side, due to gang size.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
How so? They had one model with a heavy plasma gun and one with a plasma pistol, but so did Van Saar. Looking at the "old Underhive" rulebook, Delaque also had plasma guns and heavy plasma guns in their weapon lists. Nothing in their background mentioned anything about any Houses having a preference for different weapon types.

Flanderization is how.

They had a (very small) heavy Plasma Gun and one chick had a Plasma Pistol. Add a couple of decades and boom, they're the Plasma Gang. Happened with the Dark Angels as well.

I assumed that was the reason; I was just surprised, because master of ordinance said it like it was common knowledge, and that's the first I've heard it.

On another note, the new minis look a little closer in feel to this picture, which can only be a good thing.

Anything based on Gibbon's work is fine with me.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


They had a (very small) heavy Plasma Gun...

Very, very small. As in, after I used the heavy for my leader conversion, the heavy plasma gun eventually wound up as a plasma gun for one of my marines, as it was a more-or-less perfect match for the 3rd ed Marine plasma gun.

Most of the time I used it as a plasma gun. Never bothered with the heavy version.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Most of the time I used it as a plasma gun. Never bothered with the heavy version.

Same here.

I'm really optimistic (perhaps recklessly) for this. I love Necromunda and the new models for the Goliaths and Escher look great and much in line with their previous aesthetic. I hope they can do the same with the other gangs also. Except Van Saar, those models looked goofy as hell. I love the idea of a tech focused gang, but giving everyone a squared off haircut, chuck Norris beard and a body suit just looks silly. I hope we see them with more cybernetic modifications and have them look actually "techy."

 insaniak wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


They had a (very small) heavy Plasma Gun...

Very, very small. As in, after I used the heavy for my leader conversion, the heavy plasma gun eventually wound up as a plasma gun for one of my marines, as it was a more-or-less perfect match for the 3rd ed Marine plasma gun.

That's because the non-Heavy Plasma Gun was clearly skinner. I think the metal IG use that version, whereas the Escher have the Heavy PG. Then the 3E SM Devs added a MUCH bigger Plasma Cannon.

The Heavy Plasma Gun already existed prior to the Escher one. Both in 1st and 2nd Ed 40K.

Does anybody know of a good company that sells sci-fi shanty town buildings? I already have a fair deal of GW's new industrial terrain for this upcoming release, but I'd also like to build a sumptown or the like for showdowns there.

I mean, I already have more than enough non-ganger minis to populate an entire town, I just need a town now.

I have Thunder Chrome on my to-buy-list, they sell 3d printed terrain

https://www.collisionthegame.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/code-orange-games-collision-boat-paint-2-762x1024.jpg

http://thunder-chrome.com/


There was a kickstarter, too

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thunderchrome/thunder-chrome-3d-printable-post-apocalyptic-scene





Automatically Appended Next Post:
And

http://www.wargameterrain.co.uk/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=9

http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/index.php?id_category=38&controller=category

The Thunder Chrome links are rather useless, seeing as I don't have a 3D printer and they only sell the designs for their terrain, unless I'm missing something here.

They print, too, based on this

Thunderchrome on MWG

Some months ago we started our dream to design wargaming scenery for 3D printers. We founded a successful kickstarter and now we have been able to open our own webstore. There you can buy the files to print them at home if you own a 3D printer.

If you don't own one, we also offer our models printed and ready to paint. Just take a look at our catalogue and then write us an email to info@thunder-chrome.com with the models you'd like to buy and we will answer you ASAP with the cost and shipping time.

The prices in the web store are for the 3D models, for printed models prices write us!

I was following their thread on Miniwargaming, thought their terrain looks promising and bookmarked it for future purchase

http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=118501





Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is also the Junk Town MDF terrain from Wargames Tournament

http://www.wargamestournaments.com/product/junk-town-outer-wall-gatehouse/

It is modular so it shouldnt be hard to make all kind of buildings out of it, like hutts and shops

If Necromunda returns I am in full force. I love this setting and will even play at the games workshop.

Best game they ever made in my opinion (and BFG).

Do they still do the made to order stuff on older figures? Maybe they will for Necromunda, as many of the characters like Mad Donna and Karloff Valois reach silly money on eBay.

They did some bloodbowl teams recently so I should think we'll see some Necromunda after the new one comes out (if they've still got functional moulds)

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
On another note, the new minis look a little closer in feel to this picture, which can only be a good thing.

I'm going to disagree because of GW's weird belief you can get pony tails the size of...actual pony's tails from a mostly shaved head. Yes Sisters of Silence, I'm looking at you. I'm all for root girls in leather pants and para-military bikini tops, but for the love of doG can some one send GW sculptors to a hair salon for half a day.

The terrain is what GW need to focus on to keep the game going. The aren't going to sell loads of minis but new and exciting terrain is what will keep the tills pinging for necromunda!

Never occured to me that the Escher plasma gun was actually a heavy one. It looked so much smaller than the Van Saar one to my judgment.

Also, NEW NECROMUNDA! Not the best designed game GW released (Warmaster probably would get that title, perhaps BFG) but certainly my favourite. Will pay avid attention to future releases.

I always felt that Necromunda was a terrible game system that was immensely enjoyable because of its unique capacity to tell stories of individual, more or less regular people just struggling to survive in 40k.

The rules were a random hot pot of everything the devs thought was cool thrown together in one afternoon over some beer.

If they keep the narrative power but actually craft the rules following modern design principles and with some plan in mind this time, it could be their best game ever.

GW were never strong on rules and was always worse when campaign was involved.

I think Necromunda hit randomly many good chores and sang well to the community, something the other GW campaign games even when technically better never managed to do so.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I always felt that Necromunda was a terrible game system that was immensely enjoyable because of its unique capacity to tell stories of individual, more or less regular people just struggling to survive in 40k.

The rules were a random hot pot of everything the devs thought was cool thrown together in one afternoon over some beer.

If they keep the narrative power but actually craft the rules following modern design principles and with some plan in mind this time, it could be their best game evewr.

They weren't really. It was largely the second edition rules used straight and an adaption of the blood bowl progression system, with a few rules for gun jams and a couple of other things.

'Modern design principles' always worries me when I see it, since I never know what hack theory of games design people are currently reading. But it seems very unlikely that GW is reading the same thing.

Yeah, I don't like talking about "modern" game design either, game systems aren't cars, they don't automatically improve over time. As an examplke, people like to tout alternate activations as an example of modern design but it has advantages and disadvantages just like IGOUGO.

So does chess follow modern design principles? Because that game has been around for ages. What exactly is a modern design principle? Its a bit of a vague term, tbh.

I do not think the Necromunda rules were bad, they just were not great. However, they were good enough for the campaign system to work pretty well. Incredible background, good (if not massively balanced) gang development, excellent scope for modelling miniatures and terrain, plenty of scope for story telling. Add in rules which were not brilliant but largely worked and you had a classic.

As for modern vs old rules... A lot of modern games have some innovative elements which you could argue (admittedly, only argue) are superior to old GW rules. However, a lot of modern games seem designed for a more casual audience which I am really not a fan of. Something tells me that after AoS (which as I understand was eventually a success) the new Necromunda will be more casual than the old one.

 Samsonov wrote:
I do not think the Necromunda rules were bad, they just were not great. However, they were good enough for the campaign system to work pretty well. Incredible background, good (if not massively balanced) gang development, excellent scope for modelling miniatures and terrain, plenty of scope for story telling. Add in rules which were not brilliant but largely worked and you had a classic.

As for modern vs old rules... A lot of modern games have some innovative elements which you could argue (admittedly, only argue) are superior to old GW rules. However, a lot of modern games seem designed for a more casual audience which I am really not a fan of. Something tells me that after AoS (which as I understand was eventually a success) the new Necromunda will be more casual than the old one.

Well, the old rules will still be around so you and your gaming group can obviously choose which one youd rather play. I think thats a good thing, though I am looking forward to seeing what these new rules will be like, particularly if theyre 8th ed inspired (though apparently someone who spoke to the FW designers said they werent) :s