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Made in nl
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





Segmentum Solar

 kirotheavenger wrote:
It's not the fact that the options are there, it's that it all needs to be after turning up but before the game (it's after you generate mission as well).
Sure you can not use the rules, but if that's tempting that just proves it's a bad rule.

But isn't that having your cake and eating it too? I'm not saying you don't use the rules themselves, just that you don't have to use them only after you actually turn up at the location where you'll play the game - you could do so earlier.

You either customize your team to the opponent and the mission you'll play, or you don't. Seems to me that's up to you and your opponent (unless you play pick-up games). I don't see what's bad about that.

I note quite the same is happening in Necromunda (which a lot of people are comparing this too): you either draw or hand-pick your crew from your full gang for the mission, and you will also need to draw/pick tactics. So there's also pre-game choices to make.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 13:55:30


 
   
Made in gb
Enginseer with a Wrench




Bath

Given the nature of the point less, fireteam based list building, their is a strong possibility that most factions basically have only one build they can put in the field so it's kinda a moot point. For a matched play game you just show up with your squad. For a campaign/narrative game you have the extra steps of filling out the fire team from a larger roster but it again, most of the time you already know what guys you will want to play this time anyway.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts
 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

of course you don't need to use the rules GW provide and can just play something else

ignoring all the rules you don't like and there is no point in paying GW for a rulebook or say that you play KT

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

I wish I had a group close enough I could just make up the rules as we went along.

But I don't, so I'm playing by the rules, which make the rules very relevant to me.

I also think if your intention is to not use the rules, you shouldn't be bringing that to a discussion about the rules.
   
Made in nl
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





Segmentum Solar

 kodos wrote:
of course you don't need to use the rules GW provide and can just play something else

ignoring all the rules you don't like and there is no point in paying GW for a rulebook or say that you play KT

Obviously you'll be playing something else, if all these responses come down to is:

- "There's not enough options for choice when building your KT, I don't like that!"
- "I need to make choices before I get to plonk my models on the table, I don't like that!"

Why discuss this game at all when there seems to be nothing about it (whether it's known or unknown, optional or mandatory) that you like?

Using a general "you" here, by the way, and I don't want to imply anyone should be forbidden from engaging in the discussion, but I don't think this is leading anywhere, and will now bow out.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 14:00:42


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Insane Ivan wrote:
In a campaign you need to earn such equipment as rewards for battles fought, but there's also more "Rare" options available, such as Auto-loaders and Arc units.

I like it. I assume this is also how stuff like Haywire Mines, Shock Grenades, Grapnel Guns etc. is implemented. Hopefully lots of options for customization, certainly beyond just the regular weapons the models can take!
The new Kill Team is trying ever so hard to convince us that their wheel is a better wheel, but even I can admit that this aspect sounds interesting.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Sneaky Lictor





London

This seems a step back from plausible WYSIWYG, which is a shame in my opinion.
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 The Phazer wrote:
This seems a step back from plausible WYSIWYG, which is a shame in my opinion.


GW's accountants say otherwise.
   
Made in fi
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






Ahh so now we do have (Equipment) points?

This game seems to have a lot of things in it. I can only hope the end result will not become a kludgefest where an almost infinite number of "simple rules" make for a painfully cumbersome whole in practice.

At this point, I can't see KT2 as turning out be a very beginner-friendly game tbh

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 The Phazer wrote:
This seems a step back from plausible WYSIWYG, which is a shame in my opinion.


Don't you worry! I'm sure GW will be releasing all sorts of upgrade kits we can use to kit out all our models with.. And would wager that anything else might even be unofficial for tourney play sooner or later

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 15:34:00


 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





So, gonna go out on a limb here and say that each fire team is actually based on a cost of 50 points from the previous version. I'm thinking that the options of special/heavy weapons are averaged by the available choices for that fire team. This means that each kill team will roughly be cost as much as previous kill teams--with completely different rules to play with.
   
Made in fi
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






Nope, the weapon loadouts choices for any given fire team are dictated by the contents of the model kits. You're overthinking things.
   
Made in us
Torch-Wielding Lunatic





Sweden

According to the latest video by Glass, preorder will be on the 14th, two week preorder, £125.

This space is intentionally left blank. 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

Whats the 125GBP pricepoint translate to in American? $160? I'll take 3 boxes.

NOTE - Not asking for the exchange rate, I'm asking for the corresponding standard price point that has been used in the past?

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Torch-Wielding Lunatic





Sweden

Probably $199. Dominion for AoS is £125/€155/$199.

This space is intentionally left blank. 
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Collabirator



Dayton, OH

From social, Stikkbomb [2 EP]
The operative is equipped with the following ranged weapon for the battle:
Stikkbomb A4 BS3+ D2/4 SR Rng (pentagon), Limited, Blast (circle), Indirect
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





 tauist wrote:
Nope, the weapon loadouts choices for any given fire team are dictated by the contents of the model kits. You're overthinking things.


Funny, most of these kits come with 10 models not seven. And that's the part I'm getting at. Seven Guard, four Dire Avengers, three Deathguard...all just a bit below 50 points with some room to tool them up. Two fire teams will be basically similar to a 100 point kill team from the previous edition, just no more Guard with more plasma than lasgun.
   
Made in us
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





I sometimes feel like the only person who thinks plasma spam was not a big enough issue for this. Plasma spam is annoying, but the issue was that you circumvented a rule about limiting special and heavy weapons by mixing guard, scions, and having plasma be too available. All you had to do was cut the availability in half, either by halving guardsmen gunners, special weapon gunners, and special weapon scions, or just not letting you add scion or guard special gunners if they're taken by the other, or taking them out of special weapons.

I'm also still worried about 10 guardsmen vs. 10 kommandos, and hope they balanced it well enough for it to not be another paraiah's nexus.

Setek: "My people shackled the stars, and broke mortality when the species you sprang from had barely left the slime pools it spawned in. Our wars burned reality, and the dominion of our kings is without limit. The ground you tread on is not yours; it is ours. "

Ahriman: "The Necrontyr; the sleeping ones"

Setek: "That name is not ours. Why give a name to totality?" 
   
Made in fi
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






 Chairman Aeon wrote:
 tauist wrote:
Nope, the weapon loadouts choices for any given fire team are dictated by the contents of the model kits. You're overthinking things.


Funny, most of these kits come with 10 models not seven. And that's the part I'm getting at. Seven Guard, four Dire Avengers, three Deathguard...all just a bit below 50 points with some room to tool them up. Two fire teams will be basically similar to a 100 point kill team from the previous edition, just no more Guard with more plasma than lasgun.


I was mainly talking about the weapon options. I'm pretty sure GW doesn't mind if you'll end up with redundant basic troopers.

Speaking of the price, I kinda thought the box would end up @ 155€. The price of the separate rulebook & compendium will make or break this one for me, if they'll end up costing close to a hundo I'll go all in on the box instead.. unless GW offers digital books this time round!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 19:39:44


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

So $200. Wonder if the core book will be $60. And the compendium is needed on top of the core unless you’re playing krieg or kommandoes, right?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Insane Ivan wrote:
 kodos wrote:
of course you don't need to use the rules GW provide and can just play something else

ignoring all the rules you don't like and there is no point in paying GW for a rulebook or say that you play KT

Obviously you'll be playing something else, if all these responses come down to is:

- "There's not enough options for choice when building your KT, I don't like that!"
- "I need to make choices before I get to plonk my models on the table, I don't like that!"

Why discuss this game at all when there seems to be nothing about it (whether it's known or unknown, optional or mandatory) that you like?

Using a general "you" here, by the way, and I don't want to imply anyone should be forbidden from engaging in the discussion, but I don't think this is leading anywhere, and will now bow out.


Welcome to Dakkadakka.

Anyway, I do like this system. The thing is, even in KT 1.0, few people used the Roster system, even though it was AMAZING at helping the game balance.

Let's look at the guardsmen Fire Team for example, and how a Roster might look that would maximize the use of it. This will be assuming a few things, for example that the options in the box will reflect the fire team options and so on:

The Fire Team:

Spoiler:


The Roster:

Spoiler:


You've got Seven (7) Guardsmen in a Fire Team and you can take two Fire Teams in a Kill Team.
Of those 7 Guardsmen, any of them can be Troopers. 3 of them can be chosen from Comms or the various Gunner options, and of those, you can only include one of each (ie, one Comms, one Gunner Plasma gun, one Gunner Sniper Rifle). Then, you can also select a Sergeant instead of a Trooper, So an example Fire Team will look like this:

Sergeant - Bolt Pistol + Chainsword
Comms Alpha
Gunner - Flamer 1
Gunner - Meltagun
Trooper 1
Trooper 2
Trooper 3

Your second Fire Team might look like this:

Comms Beta
Gunner - Flamer 2
Gunner - Plasma Gun
Trooper 4
Trooper 5
Trooper 6
Trooper 7

Since you already have the Sgt in one Fire Team, and that's your leader, you won't be able to take one for your second Fire Team.

Already we can see quite a few models that will need to be listed in your Kill Team Roster of 20 models. Let's put them into a Roster and then see how many we have to work with. This will be done without assigning any specializations to any models, just using the Fire Teams:

1. Sgt - Bolt Pistol + Chainsword
2. Comms Alpha
3. Comms Beta
4. Gunner - Flamer 1
5. Gunner - Flamer 2
6. Gunner - Plasma Gun
7. Gunner - Melta Gun
8. Trooper 1
9. Trooper 2
10. Trooper 3
11. Trooper 4
12. Trooper 5
13. Trooper 6
14. Trooper 7

As you can see, each Trooper will need to be its own model so we can fill out the Fire Teams, so we'll want enough 'chaff' to be able to fill them out. Other than that, we have 6 more slots to add in other options that we can hot-swap into our Fire Teams to tailor them towards our opponent. In the Fire Teams above, we took two flamers, a melta, and a plasma, probably a good range of options for most enemies. But what if we're going up against Custodes? We'll likely want more hard-hitting AP weapons, like an extra Melta gun or an extra Plasma Gun. Let's also throw in a different loadout for our Sgt too:

1. Sgt - Bolt Pistol + Chainsword
2. Comms Alpha
3. Comms Beta
4. Gunner - Flamer 1
5. Gunner - Flamer 2
6. Gunner - Plasma Gun
7. Gunner - Melta Gun
8. Trooper 1
9. Trooper 2
10. Trooper 3
11. Trooper 4
12. Trooper 5
13. Trooper 6
14. Trooper 7
15. Gunner - Plasma Gun 2
16. Gunner - Melta Gun 2
17. Sgt - Plasma Pistol + Power Weapon
18. Gunner Sniper Rifle
19. Gunner Grenade Launcher
20. Sgt - Laspistol + Power Weapon

With enough Troopers to fill out whatever two Fire Teams we want, and then filling out extra Gunners so that we can take what we need depending on the fight, we now have our 20-man roster. This means we can make Fire Teams using a wide combination of weapons, and three Sgt options give us different levels of hitting power depending on the situation. Even if you think you'll only use one sgt (plasma pistol + power sword) you can just swap the other sgts for multiples of the Grenade Launcher and Sniper Rifle Gunners to make your Roster.

Now, it gets a lot more complicated when you consider that a Kill Team can be made up of 2 Fire Teams of EITHER Guardsmen OR Tempestus Scions, which means suddenly those options become much tighter, since you'll likely want multiple options for your Scions too.

The balancing factor, however, is the 20-man Roster. People underestimate this. Yeah, you could just roll up and custom-make your Fire Teams out of EVERY OPTION available, but that becomes imbalanced. By creating your Roster, you're actually leaning further into balance by forcing yourself to make tough decisions between what you should bring to fill out what Fire Teams. You won't have enough space to make Fire Teams of all the combinations available (2 Gaurdsmen AND 2 Scion Fire Teams, for example) and will have to figure out what exactly you want to lean towards ahead of time. A Kill Team Roster of 1 Scion and 1 Guardsmen Fire Team will look very different than a Roster that uses ONLY Guardsmen or ONLY Scions.

I wrote up an essay in the past of why Plasma Spam Guardsmen wasn't as bad IF YOU USE THE ROSTER SYSTEM a long while ago. The long and short of it is that you can't suddenly swap in a different option if ALL YOU HAVE on your Roster are Plasma Guns. Going up against swarms of Hormagaunts? Suddenly those plasma guns aren't so useful. If you're not using the Roster system, your opponent would be none the wiser to all the flamers your army suddenly has, but if you are using the Roster system, your opponent can take advantage of your lack of flamers, or vice versus.

That's what makes this system so compelling, and it gets even MORE limited when you consider the specialisms and equipment point systems! When you plug in Specialisms, suddenly your options become MORE limited, if they stick with the previous 'One Specialism per Kill Team' method. For example:


1. Sgt - Bolt Pistol + Chainsword
2. Comms Alpha - Zealot*
3. Comms Beta
4. Gunner - Flamer 1
5. Gunner - Flamer 2
6. Gunner - Plasma Gun - Sniper*
7. Gunner - Melta Gun
8. Trooper 1
9. Trooper 2
10. Trooper 3
11. Trooper 4
12. Trooper 5
13. Trooper 6
14. Trooper 7
15. Gunner - Plasma Gun 2
16. Gunner - Melta Gun 2
17. Sgt - Plasma Pistol + Power Weapon - Zealot*
18. Gunner Sniper Rifle - Sniper*
19. Gunner Grenade Launcher
20. Sgt - Laspistol + Power Weapon

Notice where I placed the Zealot and Sniper specialisms (this only being two of the available). If you take your Comms Alpha, then you cannot take your Power Weapon sgt as well, since you can only have one Zealot. Similarly, even if you want to take 2 plasma guns and 2 sniper rifles, the fact that you have Sniper on a Sniper Rifle and on a Plasma Gun means that those two operatives are going to be mutually exclusive. Spread out the other specialisms across your team and suddenly, gasp, you have limitations! Limitations in this regard are what separate the good players from the great players, and what keeps the game balanced IF YOU USE IT.

90% of the time, the people that didn't like Kill Team 1.0 NEVER USED THE ROSTER SYSTEM. I was able to convert a number of people to using the Roster system and, lo and behold, suddenly they were having a much better time because they understood the balance of it.

It is, hands down, THE most UNDERRATED system GW has produced.
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







I'm not paying Dominion price bracket for two 10 man squads, some low effort terrain and a zero effort ruleset.

Posters on ignore list: 34

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

Given the precedent set by the last KillTeam box, the actual Kommando and DKoK squads being "scalped" on eBay roughly 3 seconds after relase will be cheaper than the eventual stand-alone relase. At least that's something to look forward to, aye?

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Man it's entirely possible that KT 2.0 ends up sucking but calling it a "zero effort ruleset" is just completely divorced from reality

Scrapping the design philosophy of the previous edition and starting over without the assumption that the game must feel like 40k can't even be described as low effort
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

 privateer4hire wrote:
So $200. Wonder if the core book will be $60. And the compendium is needed on top of the core unless you’re playing krieg or kommandoes, right?

Correct. The Octarius book that's included in the box, in all likelihood, is going to be strictly those two and all of their options plus a campaign or something of that ilk.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Man it's entirely possible that KT 2.0 ends up sucking but calling it a "zero effort ruleset" is just completely divorced from reality

Scrapping the design philosophy of the previous edition and starting over without the assumption that the game must feel like 40k can't even be described as low effort


It's a zero effort ruleset because it won't be a full ruleset, but only the parts necessary to play DKoK and Kommandos.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
Man it's entirely possible that KT 2.0 ends up sucking but calling it a "zero effort ruleset" is just completely divorced from reality

Scrapping the design philosophy of the previous edition and starting over without the assumption that the game must feel like 40k can't even be described as low effort


It's a zero effort ruleset because it won't be a full ruleset, but only the parts necessary to play DKoK and Kommandos.

??? The rules for other factions exist, they just got separated out to another book. I fully agree that that sucks but I doubt anyone who had anything to do with the rules design was involved in that decision.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

 Arachnofiend wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
Man it's entirely possible that KT 2.0 ends up sucking but calling it a "zero effort ruleset" is just completely divorced from reality

Scrapping the design philosophy of the previous edition and starting over without the assumption that the game must feel like 40k can't even be described as low effort


It's a zero effort ruleset because it won't be a full ruleset, but only the parts necessary to play DKoK and Kommandos.

??? The rules for other factions exist, they just got separated out to another book. I fully agree that that sucks but I doubt anyone who had anything to do with the rules design was involved in that decision.


I'd call just cutting out a part of a bigger ruleset and plopping it separately and deciding you're done a pretty zero-effort type of action.

"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm not paying Dominion price bracket for two 10 man squads, some low effort terrain and a zero effort ruleset.


Plenty enough will buy at that price to not miss your money nor mine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 privateer4hire wrote:
So $200. Wonder if the core book will be $60. And the compendium is needed on top of the core unless you’re playing krieg or kommandoes, right?

Correct. The Octarius book that's included in the box, in all likelihood, is going to be strictly those two and all of their options plus a campaign or something of that ilk.


Thank you. I wasn’t a million percent sure on compendium being required to play.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 21:59:27


 
   
Made in gb
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Scotland, but nowhere near my rulebook

drbored wrote:


Anyway, I do like this system. The thing is, even in KT 1.0, few people used the Roster system, even though it was AMAZING at helping the game balance.

Spoiler:


Let's look at the guardsmen Fire Team for example, and how a Roster might look that would maximize the use of it. This will be assuming a few things, for example that the options in the box will reflect the fire team options and so on:

The Fire Team:

[spoiler]


The Roster:

Spoiler:


Spoiler:
You've got Seven (7) Guardsmen in a Fire Team and you can take two Fire Teams in a Kill Team.
Of those 7 Guardsmen, any of them can be Troopers. 3 of them can be chosen from Comms or the various Gunner options, and of those, you can only include one of each (ie, one Comms, one Gunner Plasma gun, one Gunner Sniper Rifle). Then, you can also select a Sergeant instead of a Trooper, So an example Fire Team will look like this:

Sergeant - Bolt Pistol + Chainsword
Comms Alpha
Gunner - Flamer 1
Gunner - Meltagun
Trooper 1
Trooper 2
Trooper 3

Your second Fire Team might look like this:

Comms Beta
Gunner - Flamer 2
Gunner - Plasma Gun
Trooper 4
Trooper 5
Trooper 6
Trooper 7

Since you already have the Sgt in one Fire Team, and that's your leader, you won't be able to take one for your second Fire Team.

Already we can see quite a few models that will need to be listed in your Kill Team Roster of 20 models. Let's put them into a Roster and then see how many we have to work with. This will be done without assigning any specializations to any models, just using the Fire Teams:

1. Sgt - Bolt Pistol + Chainsword
2. Comms Alpha
3. Comms Beta
4. Gunner - Flamer 1
5. Gunner - Flamer 2
6. Gunner - Plasma Gun
7. Gunner - Melta Gun
8. Trooper 1
9. Trooper 2
10. Trooper 3
11. Trooper 4
12. Trooper 5
13. Trooper 6
14. Trooper 7

As you can see, each Trooper will need to be its own model so we can fill out the Fire Teams, so we'll want enough 'chaff' to be able to fill them out. Other than that, we have 6 more slots to add in other options that we can hot-swap into our Fire Teams to tailor them towards our opponent. In the Fire Teams above, we took two flamers, a melta, and a plasma, probably a good range of options for most enemies. But what if we're going up against Custodes? We'll likely want more hard-hitting AP weapons, like an extra Melta gun or an extra Plasma Gun. Let's also throw in a different loadout for our Sgt too:

1. Sgt - Bolt Pistol + Chainsword
2. Comms Alpha
3. Comms Beta
4. Gunner - Flamer 1
5. Gunner - Flamer 2
6. Gunner - Plasma Gun
7. Gunner - Melta Gun
8. Trooper 1
9. Trooper 2
10. Trooper 3
11. Trooper 4
12. Trooper 5
13. Trooper 6
14. Trooper 7
15. Gunner - Plasma Gun 2
16. Gunner - Melta Gun 2
17. Sgt - Plasma Pistol + Power Weapon
18. Gunner Sniper Rifle
19. Gunner Grenade Launcher
20. Sgt - Laspistol + Power Weapon

With enough Troopers to fill out whatever two Fire Teams we want, and then filling out extra Gunners so that we can take what we need depending on the fight, we now have our 20-man roster. This means we can make Fire Teams using a wide combination of weapons, and three Sgt options give us different levels of hitting power depending on the situation. Even if you think you'll only use one sgt (plasma pistol + power sword) you can just swap the other sgts for multiples of the Grenade Launcher and Sniper Rifle Gunners to make your Roster.

Now, it gets a lot more complicated when you consider that a Kill Team can be made up of 2 Fire Teams of EITHER Guardsmen OR Tempestus Scions, which means suddenly those options become much tighter, since you'll likely want multiple options for your Scions too.

The balancing factor, however, is the 20-man Roster. People underestimate this. Yeah, you could just roll up and custom-make your Fire Teams out of EVERY OPTION available, but that becomes imbalanced. By creating your Roster, you're actually leaning further into balance by forcing yourself to make tough decisions between what you should bring to fill out what Fire Teams. You won't have enough space to make Fire Teams of all the combinations available (2 Gaurdsmen AND 2 Scion Fire Teams, for example) and will have to figure out what exactly you want to lean towards ahead of time. A Kill Team Roster of 1 Scion and 1 Guardsmen Fire Team will look very different than a Roster that uses ONLY Guardsmen or ONLY Scions.

I wrote up an essay in the past of why Plasma Spam Guardsmen wasn't as bad IF YOU USE THE ROSTER SYSTEM a long while ago. The long and short of it is that you can't suddenly swap in a different option if ALL YOU HAVE on your Roster are Plasma Guns. Going up against swarms of Hormagaunts? Suddenly those plasma guns aren't so useful. If you're not using the Roster system, your opponent would be none the wiser to all the flamers your army suddenly has, but if you are using the Roster system, your opponent can take advantage of your lack of flamers, or vice versus.

That's what makes this system so compelling, and it gets even MORE limited when you consider the specialisms and equipment point systems! When you plug in Specialisms, suddenly your options become MORE limited, if they stick with the previous 'One Specialism per Kill Team' method. For example:


1. Sgt - Bolt Pistol + Chainsword
2. Comms Alpha - Zealot*
3. Comms Beta
4. Gunner - Flamer 1
5. Gunner - Flamer 2
6. Gunner - Plasma Gun - Sniper*
7. Gunner - Melta Gun
8. Trooper 1
9. Trooper 2
10. Trooper 3
11. Trooper 4
12. Trooper 5
13. Trooper 6
14. Trooper 7
15. Gunner - Plasma Gun 2
16. Gunner - Melta Gun 2
17. Sgt - Plasma Pistol + Power Weapon - Zealot*
18. Gunner Sniper Rifle - Sniper*
19. Gunner Grenade Launcher
20. Sgt - Laspistol + Power Weapon

Notice where I placed the Zealot and Sniper specialisms (this only being two of the available). If you take your Comms Alpha, then you cannot take your Power Weapon sgt as well, since you can only have one Zealot. Similarly, even if you want to take 2 plasma guns and 2 sniper rifles, the fact that you have Sniper on a Sniper Rifle and on a Plasma Gun means that those two operatives are going to be mutually exclusive. Spread out the other specialisms across your team and suddenly, gasp, you have limitations! Limitations in this regard are what separate the good players from the great players, and what keeps the game balanced IF YOU USE IT.

90% of the time, the people that didn't like Kill Team 1.0 NEVER USED THE ROSTER SYSTEM. I was able to convert a number of people to using the Roster system and, lo and behold, suddenly they were having a much better time because they understood the balance of it.


It is, hands down, THE most UNDERRATED system GW has produced.


Really interesting post, drbored. I would suggest that the roster used in this way is more of a limit on "low value" troops like Orks and Guard, and some teams could therefore be better limited by a roster size below 20 (Marines, Custodes, Necrons etc.)
   
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Gathering the Informations.

 privateer4hire wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
 privateer4hire wrote:
So $200. Wonder if the core book will be $60. And the compendium is needed on top of the core unless you’re playing krieg or kommandoes, right?

Correct. The Octarius book that's included in the box, in all likelihood, is going to be strictly those two and all of their options plus a campaign or something of that ilk.


Thank you. I wasn’t a million percent sure on compendium being required to play.

My understanding is that the Compendium is a complete list of all the Kill Teams themselves, separated out from the main rules.
   
 
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