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After the white scars master of snares captain that autoexplodes flyers comes the sequel... "the iron hands warlord who is untouchable..."

STUDENT OF HISTORY
When this warlord consolidates, they can move up to 6" instead of 3", and do not have to end this move closer to the nearest enemy"

That means said warlord could charge, fight and run away from the enemy model / unit he charged but not killed without retaliation...

What have they done again ? Where is the rules question ?

Well, the Iron Hands are known for their swift hit and run tactics. This is also why their land speeders and attack bikes are much better than those of less mobile chapters such as White Scars.

I hope there's some hidden intent there like ability to move to any enemy not just closest, since only similar ability I know costs 1CP for detachment and 2CP to activate.

eparedes0785 wrote:
After the white scars master of snares captain that autoexplodes flyers comes the sequel... "the iron hands warlord who is untouchable..."

STUDENT OF HISTORY
When this warlord consolidates, they can move up to 6" instead of 3", and do not have to end this move closer to the nearest enemy"

That means said warlord could charge, fight and run away from the enemy model / unit he charged but not killed without retaliation...

He's not untouchable, especially if you charge him [or trap him].

Basically, as long as you activate before he does you'll be able to thwack him, and there's always just blowing him and the guys around him to pieces with guns.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

eparedes0785 wrote:
After the white scars master of snares captain that autoexplodes flyers comes the sequel... "the iron hands warlord who is untouchable..."

STUDENT OF HISTORY
When this warlord consolidates, they can move up to 6" instead of 3", and do not have to end this move closer to the nearest enemy"

That means said warlord could charge, fight and run away from the enemy model / unit he charged but not killed without retaliation...

He's not untouchable, especially if you charge him [or trap him].

Basically, as long as you activate before he does you'll be able to thwack him, and there's always just blowing him and the guys around him to pieces with guns.

He charges, slaps you, then consolidates away from your remaining troops. That's what people are having issues with - he's retreating from combat immediately.

Assuming he charges in with some pals, you could always just lay into them with your CC attacks. If he came alone, all he did was save you from having to Fallback. In either case, it's a very risky maneuver for him to try, cuz a Warlord within 6" of an enemy unit on their turn is a Warlord who's probably about to die.

nekooni wrote:

He charges, slaps you, then consolidates away from your remaining troops. That's what people are having issues with - he's retreating from combat immediately.

Except doing that isn't really all that.

Odds are, assuming he wants to be in melee, whatever he fights wasn't going to survive him anyway, except a knight or something. He'll be making like 6 Thunder Hammer attacks on the forward swing. If he doesn't take first activation, then activate for 2CP and whack him before he goes. Basically, falling back out of melee doesn't add a whole lot of protection assuming he's attacking infantry units; and most vehicle units can't fight back anyway and will die on your turn so he'll be free to charge again anyway. It's really basically just retreating away from knights.

And of course, he's still not that far away from you, so you can counter-charge him with something else and kill him on the charge.

At the very least, he's not as scary as a jetbike shield captain or a smash captain.

Better on a Levi Dread if you're worried about it getting tagged.

If you're using this to run away with a melee character, you're using it wrong. The strength is its capacity to get into your opponents units, not away from them.

 Crimson wrote:
Well, the Iron Hands are known for their swift hit and run tactics. This is also why their land speeders and attack bikes are much better than those of less mobile chapters such as White Scars.

Damn I hate this new fluff.

I expect all the upstanding citizens of dakka who have allowed their hysteria to cloud their judgment will have the gumption to admit they have made a mistake once their doomsaying be proven false.

 Eldarain wrote:
Better on a Levi Dread if you're worried about it getting tagged.

Yeah this strikes me as the best use. 1cp to make it a character then 1cp to give it a warlord trait and bam you have a powerhouse unit that can fallback and shoot no problem whatsoever. The entire strategy of "tag it and laugh" just does not work unless you take it prisoner.

Sterling191 wrote:
If you're using this to run away with a melee character, you're using it wrong. The strength is its capacity to get into your opponents units, not away from them.

I'd say yeah, this is a way better case than bouncing out of melee. 6" forward and towards the target of your choice is pretty sweet. And since it's every time you consolidate, you can charge a bunch of guys, fight one, consolidate forward since a bucket of thunder hammer attacks should trivially clear the way, pile into another unit you charged, maul that one, then consolidate another 6" into a tank or something. And since you can go any way you want, you don't have to worry about having enough attacks to kill all those guardsmen that you charged to open the way.

Then you bounce on their turn, if they didn't fall back and blow you away, and repeat the process of charging units anew.


I think this trait's best feature is allowing you to not get tarpitted by crappy infantry in volume that wouldn't ordinarily threaten you, and make sure you can get your guy into what you want, where you want him.

How are you attacking after consolidating in the same turn? Do Iron Hands have some other ability to allow that?

nekooni wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

eparedes0785 wrote:
After the white scars master of snares captain that autoexplodes flyers comes the sequel... "the iron hands warlord who is untouchable..."

STUDENT OF HISTORY
When this warlord consolidates, they can move up to 6" instead of 3", and do not have to end this move closer to the nearest enemy"

That means said warlord could charge, fight and run away from the enemy model / unit he charged but not killed without retaliation...

He's not untouchable, especially if you charge him [or trap him].

Basically, as long as you activate before he does you'll be able to thwack him, and there's always just blowing him and the guys around him to pieces with guns.

He charges, slaps you, then consolidates away from your remaining troops. That's what people are having issues with - he's retreating from combat immediately.

I remember when Dante gave his whole unit the ability to retreat from combat the same turn they charged back in 5th. Good times! I wish they'd bring it back for him.

 Stux wrote:
How are you attacking after consolidating in the same turn? Do Iron Hands have some other ability to allow that?

Isn't Honour the Chapter a basic Marine stratagem that would let you fight twice? Pile in 3", attack, consolidate out 3", fight again to pile in, attack, and leave a second time!!! Blimey that's stupid(ly awesome if I played Iron Hands).

 Yarium wrote:

 Stux wrote:
How are you attacking after consolidating in the same turn? Do Iron Hands have some other ability to allow that?

Isn't Honour the Chapter a basic Marine stratagem that would let you fight twice? Pile in 3", attack, consolidate out 3", fight again to pile in, attack, and leave a second time!!! Blimey that's stupid(ly awesome if I played Iron Hands).

Oh sure, that would do it. Costs 3cp though, so not worth it just to double consolidate normally.

 Stux wrote:

 Yarium wrote:

 Stux wrote:
How are you attacking after consolidating in the same turn? Do Iron Hands have some other ability to allow that?

Isn't Honour the Chapter a basic Marine stratagem that would let you fight twice? Pile in 3", attack, consolidate out 3", fight again to pile in, attack, and leave a second time!!! Blimey that's stupid(ly awesome if I played Iron Hands).

Oh sure, that would do it. Costs 3cp though, so not worth it just to double consolidate normally.

Generally not. I've done it with my Genestealers though. SUPER cruel trick; kill a unit with Genestealers that charged, use Overrun (1CP) to have them full out move (and advance!) instead of consolidating, ending surrounding an enemy they didn't charge. Activate them again with Adrenaline Surge (3CP), piling them into the closest enemy unit that they can't fight. Pin a unit like this. You now will likely kill them on your opponent's turn while being totally safe from shooting.

This isn't quite as good, since 1 model cannot pin units, but sometimes that extra 12" from so many consolidations can simply win a game all on its own.

He also foot walks.... so GL getting him anywhere important lol

nekooni wrote:

He charges, slaps you, then consolidates away from your remaining troops. That's what people are having issues with - he's retreating from combat immediately.

Or he gets charged, fights and then "consolidates" back.


Yeah, I get that it's more entertaining for the "gW dErPeD!1!!" brigade to pile on about this crap...but come the hell on.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
He also foot walks.... so GL getting him anywhere important lol

Bike Captains are still a thing.

 Stux wrote:
How are you attacking after consolidating in the same turn? Do Iron Hands have some other ability to allow that?

Space Marines have a stratagem that allows that. It's expensive, but it's an option that could prove decisive since you get effectively 9" out of using it.

I like that being a student of history let’s you recklessly charge into something, realize you screwed up (again) and be like, “Oh gak! I’m ou-dee!” Then run away.

Like, seriously. You need to be a student of history to realize that not letting someone hit you back is a key to victory?

No wonder the Imperium continues its downward spiral.

 greatbigtree wrote:
I like that being a student of history let’s you recklessly charge into something, realize you screwed up (again) and be like, “Oh gak! I’m ou-dee!” Then run away.

Like, seriously. You need to be a student of history to realize that not letting someone hit you back is a key to victory?

No wonder the Imperium continues its downward spiral.

Fluff-wise, it reminds me of back in 5th edition when Ultramarines could choose to fall back without having to make a check, but in practice it seems like it'll get cheesed a lot more than it'll be used the way I'm assuming it was intended.

Lemondish wrote:
I expect all the upstanding citizens of dakka who have allowed their hysteria to cloud their judgment will have the gumption to admit they have made a mistake once their doomsaying be proven false.

Nope, SM are already topping tournaments with WS and UM, according to FLG the IH would be stronger and that seems true on the surface. If you think the release has been and is going to continue being balanced you'll be in for a rude awakening, especially if psychic awakening doesn't do a much larger thing all other armies than codex compliant Astartes. Because wow, between a metric tonne of okay to strong Stratagems instead of the small handful of okay stratagems, the good to insane relics and traits and a couple of free rules, there is no way this ends in anything but tears. I know SM were bad, but it seems very excessive from my perspective but I've played a grand total of 1 game with Astartes this edition and I got my face punched in, but I think I might have been playing against the full power 25-man Loota bomb with a flyer list.

 vict0988 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
I expect all the upstanding citizens of dakka who have allowed their hysteria to cloud their judgment will have the gumption to admit they have made a mistake once their doomsaying be proven false.

Nope, SM are already topping tournaments with WS and UM, according to FLG the IH would be stronger and that seems true on the surface. If you think the release has been and is going to continue being balanced you'll be in for a rude awakening, especially if psychic awakening doesn't do a much larger thing all other armies than codex compliant Astartes. Because wow, between a metric tonne of okay to strong Stratagems instead of the small handful of okay stratagems, the good to insane relics and traits and a couple of free rules, there is no way this ends in anything but tears. I know SM were bad, but it seems very excessive from my perspective but I've played a grand total of 1 game with Astartes this edition and I got my face punched in, but I think I might have been playing against the full power 25-man Loota bomb with a flyer list.

a note here that lootas are no longer very good. mob up no longer applying to anythign buy boys and needing to reroll number of shots when using the shoot again strategy among other things.

They're still alright. Just not the powerhouse they once were.

 vict0988 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
I expect all the upstanding citizens of dakka who have allowed their hysteria to cloud their judgment will have the gumption to admit they have made a mistake once their doomsaying be proven false.

Nope, SM are already topping tournaments with WS and UM, according to FLG the IH would be stronger and that seems true on the surface. If you think the release has been and is going to continue being balanced you'll be in for a rude awakening, especially if psychic awakening doesn't do a much larger thing all other armies than codex compliant Astartes. Because wow, between a metric tonne of okay to strong Stratagems instead of the small handful of okay stratagems, the good to insane relics and traits and a couple of free rules, there is no way this ends in anything but tears. I know SM were bad, but it seems very excessive from my perspective but I've played a grand total of 1 game with Astartes this edition and I got my face punched in, but I think I might have been playing against the full power 25-man Loota bomb with a flyer list.

I actually would like the winning White Scars lists Linked. I'm very curious what people are doing with them and could serve as inspiration for my Minotaurs.

yeah I'm sure white scars have some fun tricks but none leap out at me as obvious, I suspect it's all about clever use of stratigiums.