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What would be your reaction to this? Say GW put out complete army boxes like they do for blood bowl teams or Necromunda games, with monster/monstrous arcanum kits sold separately?

My own take: id prefer this route vs 28mm scale and am crossing fingers that this is the direction they take it.

This has been my theory/preference since the announcement. IMO, rank n file games work better at smaller scales with more minis on the table. As much as I love ASOIFs gameplay, the low model count in units really detracts from the drama of the background.

I don't like the game mechanic of Warmaster. At all. If it was standard play, the only difference would be tiny hard to paint models. Pretty sure which way I'd err.

Probably just ignore it as I have enough hobby stuff to get done without adding a new game.system. we'll see how much this changes in the years

Could certainly work. I would like old Warhammer back though (at it's best), so we'll see.

I feel it's gearing more towards a Horus Heresy/30K version for AoS (so a subgame set in the past), probably still at 28mm scale.

If they were to do that, they need to pull monsters and giants out of the game proper and leave them in Epic/Warmaster scale. Right now there's no incentive to Warmaster unless you really really REALLY want 144 person regiments.

It'd make no sense, considering they've hyped up the announcement with classic square bases.

Honestly I think if we see a warmaster scale game return it will

1) Be AFTER Epic returns for 40K - with GW having soft tested that with both AT and AN game releases to steadily build interest in that game scale through other game products.

2) Be with AoS not Old World.

GW has said quite openly that the new Warhammer game is going to be to AoS what Horus Heresy is to 40K. Furthermore they showed off regular 28mm square bases. They are clearly going to pitch it at the 28mm scale which is FAR more popular than 6-15mm games.


Indeed GWs Epic and Warmaster games have never been big sellers so it would make very good sense that if those games return; GW will focus them on their core market and core product narratives - so 40K and AoS.

A change in scale means the system is a non-starter for me and I continue to stick with 8th.

I highly doubt we will see warmaster scale return.

It was never that popular.

The selling point of epic was that it was full of god machines and huge engines of war that you just couldn't see on the table at 40k. When GW did away with having sensible sized 40k models, Epic became pointless. Warmaster was just WFB with a different ruleset & scale. There is nothing you can have in warmaster, that you couldn't see in WFB at this point. When it came out, it offered nothing you couldn't already get in WFB.

They will have a tough time selling small scale on a returning game when a lot of people want to use existing models/armies at 28mm.

I'd love it to be small scale- As much as I love building and painting 28mm scale, small scale has always been my preference. I'd probably buy a small(ish) goblin army if they brought back warmaster, just for the joy of painting it. But it would be a hard sell for me, as I'm already in way too deep with 6mm fantasy.

Actually for AoS you can introduce GodBeasts. There's also dragons and legions of other fantasy creatures you can add. The Lore is already full of beasts the size of mountains.

GW has been pushing bigger models in AoS and whilst I don't think they'll ever make Warlord sized models for AoS, I think that Warmaster scale can certainly work for that. Plus it gives you a rank and file system that feels far more epic in scope than you can get with 28mm.


That said the older 6mm never did sell all that well; at the same time there IS a market for it and GW appears far more eager now to hold whatever markets they can rather than simply focus on maximising one market. It could be a region that they expand into. Plus if they can makeit work its ripe for the picking. Whilst there's a good few model ranges for the 5-15mm block they are mostly passionate one-man-bands who tend to be smaller setups. So its a region GW can push into with reduced competition at the large scale (plus heck GW pushing in might actually do the others some good in so much as opening many newer gamers eyes to that whole scale of battle)

They could certainly do it, and with todays technology the models would look better than what we had back then. Still, other than for "you can do HUUUGE battles" the range is a bit odd, since the individual models will look like crap anyway. If the attempt is to cash in on TW:W, I think they might go down that path - I just hope they do not.

15mm instead maybe? It's a compromise between "mass battle game" and "individual models are still recognisable".

In the end I hope for a "proper" WHF reboot though.

Not interested. I want somethign pretty close to old WHFB or I ignore the new trash and stick to my old stuff.

Not interested either, the value of this is to atract previous customers.

Warmaster should be a specialist games thing on the side.

Total indifference and ££ saved in my pocket?

No Sir, I don’t like it.

I’ve nothing against Warmaster. But, I have been promised Warhammer Fantasy Battle, so Warhammer Fantasy Battle I shall have.

Not interested.

Just bring back Warhammer Fantasy. Close to 8th, but clean up some rules.

Also, release updated plastic models for all the old core units in the game like the entire High Elf army for example.

Don't worry though. I think we will get WHFB, let me explain why.

1. Total War: Warhammer is revitalising interest in the background. The teaser article even admitted as such.

2. The miniatures are already there, they just need square bases (or new AoS books if it is AoS in an older setting - though I hope this isnt the case).

3. WHFB was not a major seller but those into it payed big. Want a Skaven army, expect it to set you back £200 minimum, and people did play Skaven.

4. There was a saying "40K is how GW makes its money, but WHFB is what the studio staff actually plays". Not entirely true but there is a lot of love for the old bacground and many in the company protested the End Times and resultant business model change.

5. All GW need to sell are a rulebook, army books and square bases. The outlay is relatively small.

6. GW used to have a business model of releasing unbalanced rules, this was according to a senior insider quite intentional as it drove edition creep and resales. This was before Gw lost market share to other companies, let alone Kickstarter. A three year load time will give GW a perfect opportujity to release all the books ofr 9th edition playtested and balanced. Meanwhile they can import ideas from fan continuations such as T9A and 8.5, as they are based on WHFB anyway GW can 'steal them back' without any recourse.

7. A number of old GW staff are now in Creative Assembly and making lots of money from it. I would not be surprised if they knocked heads and are working together. In fact it would be a good way of creating official backing for new factions.
Would you buy a Vampire Coast army? If not someone would..

It a win-win frankly, and I am surprised it has taken this long.

It would kill Warhammer the Old World immediately.

 Mallo wrote:
I highly doubt we will see warmaster scale return.

It was never that popular.

The selling point of epic was that it was full of god machines and huge engines of war that you just couldn't see on the table at 40k. When GW did away with having sensible sized 40k models, Epic became pointless. Warmaster was just WFB with a different ruleset & scale. There is nothing you can have in warmaster, that you couldn't see in WFB at this point. When it came out, it offered nothing you couldn't already get in WFB.

Big 40k models did not make epic pointless. You don't get EPIC battles wth same ruleset and just up the points. And frankly who has 20'x16' or the kind board to play that 40k scaled models would require for truly big battles?

Ditto for fantasy. IF you want big epic armies clashing over 28mm models and FB don't rule. You could play 100,000 pts per side 8th ed FB battle and guess what? That wouldn't give you big battle feel and experience. And would require ridiculous board not many can play. How you are going to even move models from center of 20'x16' board?

 Orlanth wrote:
Not interested either, the value of this is to atract previous customers.

Warmaster should be a specialist games thing on the side.

THIS is going to be a Specialist Game on the side.

I'd love it but i doubt they're going that route. Its hard to focus on the model side of things at that scale.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Not interested either, the value of this is to atract previous customers.

Warmaster should be a specialist games thing on the side.

THIS is going to be a Specialist Game on the side.

I disagree. This is a main studio production, not FW or Specialist Games.

I think its impossible for us to know what kind of game it will be. What internal team makes it doesn't really matter as much compared to what GW makes of it and how they market and sell it through their stores.

Though its likely that they are going to make it plastic no matter what team designs it. Resin is a great material, but price prohibitive for a game aiming for rank and file mass troop use on the tabletop. Not just for people buying into it, but also for the production side of things too - esp when you deal with the size of customer base that GW works with.

Indeedy.

Plus, the majority of the old models are plastic, and that's just a case of digging out the moulds and getting them ready to go once again.

I really don't expect them to mess with the model scale for that reason. It keeps pre-production costs to an absolute minimum, and means they can instead focus on plastificating stuff that was previously metal or finecast (example? DE Harpies, Shades and Bolt Thrower).

That in turn will be critical to the profitability and sustainability of the game. If they can get this up and running for a mere percentage of AoS, then the sales pressure on the range is reduced.

And tweaking the scale of the models risks pretty serious backlash - and a justified one. Right now, us Nerds are chomping at the bit and dusting off existing armies. Some might even be planning updating some of their models in preparation.

If they suddenly say 'and now it's 15mm scale'? That's not gonna wash.

Eh traditionally anything that isn't 28mm scale has a hard time selling in the wargame market outside of historical games. Heck its even to the point where one or two companies trying to make self-contained product and rules lines actually get looked down on in that market where otherwise you might have rules from one place; models from two or three or more others and such - all of them being "garage companies" ergo small operations.

At technically is 6mm however it sort of gets away with it because all its models are either 28mm warrior size or bigger (at present).

I really doubt that the main line will be anything but 28mm/32mm. This of course would not rule out another set of rules in warmaster scale. A single plastic sprue could be enough for a large variety of units. A lot of warmaster armies only had 6 or so units (not including characters and monsters), so a single sprue per army could might be able to cover most them (with multiple variant stands per troop type).

Personally, the ideal scale for me is 3mm (i.e. for Celts and Romans https://www.picoarmor.com/product-category/ancients/). It is difficult to exaggerate how much money I would put into WFB at that scale. Near unimaginable to think that they would do this but if they want to make something in a scale which does not already have loads fantasy options (like they did with AoS) then 6mm, 10mm, 12mm and 15mm are already taken.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Not interested either, the value of this is to atract previous customers.

Warmaster should be a specialist games thing on the side.

THIS is going to be a Specialist Game on the side.

I disagree. This is a main studio production, not FW or Specialist Games.

Which is why they had the head of FW do the teaser talking about how he wanted to do a Horus Heresy style game for AOS?

Oh well that's 100% conclusive, and not possibly just part of the lulz.

Seriously. They've said there's a dedicated team within the Warhammer Studio. That's not FW. That's not SG.

The studio also wrote the rules for Necromunda, Blood Bowl, and pretty much every other Specialist Game out currently. Having a team in the studio doesn't mean it's a main game anymore.