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[TLDR] Would you pay £55 for this model?

So I would like some advice as I have been out of the gaming scene for some time and mostly been painting old OOP models I had from when I was younger. I grew tired of there being a lack of 28mm Space Elves on dinos so this led me to having my own commission made with original concept artwork too.

The costs:

£300 Original Concept Artwork

£1500 for sculptor

£12/16 per cast

£5 per box

The main problem I have is, I am not sure if this model is desirable at all, but the cost would have a large impact on that I am sure.

So I figured I need to charge £45 and sell 80 to break even. This of course is ideally a business venture so that I can take any "profits" and invest in more space elves. Then put the retail price up to £55 after the initial Pre-Sale

No. I can’t think of any miniature I’d spend 55 pounds on, but especially not a model that I could kitbash from the finest plastic bits on the market* for less than 55pounds.

However, there are elements of the miniature I would pay money for. Depending on how you break down the mini, the rider and/or his weapon would be of interest, presuming it is much cheaper. The harness, if it can be cast as an additional bit sized to fit on some common dinosaur model or toys, like a Bones or Papo dinosaur, would be of interest. You might be able to sell ‘upgrade’ packs to exodite players.

Have you scanned the miniature to make an STL file so it can be 3D printed?


*Results may vary.

Thanks very much Bob. Lol ye this will be the question for me, if people can kitbash would I break even by lowering the price and hope to sell double.

Interesting idea to sell the parts separately, tbh the only part that you could sell would be the dragon or the rider itself. Even though would seem a stretch needing it to be sold for maybe 15/20. The saddle is part of the model though.

3D? No? I have no real idea what that is or how I would go about that ha

The first thing that came to mind was, perhaps the question of was it financially feasible should have come before getting it sculpted? (but for a passion project then cool, I wish I could do that lol). I know cost/quantity and all that but £5 for a box seems very high. Charge less for it but take longer to break even? 80 does seem like a good number to shift for a first product.

To answer the question tho, It seems like people do spend that sort of money on similar scale miniatures, like ones from Mierce. The GW Carnosaur is in that ballpark also.
I like the concept art a lot, the sculpt seems pretty close to it as well.

Do a Kickstarter and see if you find enough potential customers.

If you do cast copys - I'd pay 45€.

I wouldn't spend money on it as I feel that overall there aren't enough elements in the sculpt that would tell me this is an Exodite, especially with the wealth of conversion parts and potential GW have with their own Aeldari/Drukhari/Aelf ranges to create my own kitbashes that are distinctly Eldar.

You also have to bear in mind that there is no obvious parallel to Craftworlds or Drukhari for this to be a game piece, which devalues it significantly in my eyes. A model of this size cannot be used as an Autarch Skyrunner and with no howdah or similar it cannot be used as a transport.

I think the sculpt is good enough (and large enough) to warrant that price in resin

but i'm more inclined to orks & death guard than elves so I wouldn't personally buy it

(oh and if possible cut it for casting so you have the dino separate from the rider, you could probably sell it as a riding beast alone too)

It's good... I quite like it... but I wouldn't rush to buy it... in the £20 - £30 zone? maybe....

A few thoughts

1) As a sculpt it looks good, detailed and nicely proportioned and designed. That you've got some very nice concept art as well is to your benefit. After that I'd hope to see a cast version assembled and then pro-painted to further sell the model. Right now its all black and white or green - adding colour makes a massive difference as does people seeing the model "finished" in resin.

2) On its own it looks good, but that's a problem. It's on its own. It's one model. For a one off passion project its perfectly fine and heck better than a lot of KS I've seen doing passion projects.
That said being one model on its own it suffers because many gamers can only envision purchasing this as a creative/show model. That's not bad and if you advertise and market months in advance and then run a Kickstarter and get the word out you should be able to sell enough to at the very least break even if not profit.

3) Being on its own any project suffers, what you might want to consider is having more artwork comissioned to show off a model range. Ergo design and make an Exodites style force that would work on the tabletop.
That can make a big difference because then people can see an army that they can field - a range of models with a united asthetic and design approach. It makes a difference over a one-off.*


Honestly I'd say the real question is how far down the rabbithole you want to go with this. Do you want a single passionproject model cast up and made; or do you want to consider a passion project army.
Furthermore some costs that you get now for a single one-off might be higher than if you start to consider a larger range release. Things like packaging and boxes can come down in price per unit when you start to order in more volume; or source from the manufacturer as opposed to going through more retail channels.
Of course the further down the hole you go the more upfront cost its going to require; the more planning you'll need; the more investment etc... It becomes a BIG thing all on its own. So its some serious considerations to take into account; keeping in mind that a lot of KS start off as passion projects; promise the world; get a boatload of cash and then fail as they overload themselves with too much (sometimes adding to many stretch goals bloats things to the point where they become unprofitable and unproduceable within the projects targets).


You've put a lot into this already and got a very professional level start to things; a gain better than quite a few KS that I've seen. It's really your choice how much further you want to go.



Edit - a note on price - At £50 I'd wager you'd be looking to sell this as one per customer. You're into the "hero/leader/special" price bracket at around £50. If you instead priced it at £20 or even 30 you'd be closer to the elite troop price where someone might be three or four IF they had rules/reason to use them. Of course being as the sculpt looks like you've gone for a single pose single option kit leader would make sense so £40-50 isn't too bad a price bracket in resin. If you had actual resin to show off and parted models to show the joins and also overall casting quality and a scale shot showing how bit it is next to regular models those would all help justify prices to gamers. Well cast, well parted and good scaled models will sell far more so.

*An example from myself; I disliked the Genestealer Cults rockbreaker vehicle when I saw it when they launched the range. The problem was it was a very repurposed mining vehicle in a faction which, at the time, was basically Imperial guard with a few extra arms/heads bolted on here and there. So the rockbreaker really stood out as abnormal against an army that was otherwise taking regular IG tanks and such.
However when GW added a light vehicle, bikes, buggies and more warriors - ergo made them into the "uprising miners" suddenly it all pulled together. The Rockbreaker became more attractive as a purchase because now it fit into the theme of the army.

While I admire your goal and could spent 45-55£ on a centerpiece model, the execution leaves much to be desired. The biggest problem for me is that this is a squad member level of detail on a way to large model. I get that Cold Ones based kitbashes make riders look as if they were riding donkeys, but the end result is in a typical bike/cavalry size category, reflecting the gameplay usage of the model. My ideal size of a cavalry dino is somewhere around 1.5 of a Cold One - a horse not an elefant instead of a donkey. The proportions on the artwork are way better than in the sculpt... The second problem is that there are no details on the dinosaur that add futuristic or Eldar accents to it. It is basically a fantasy Elf with two sci-fi weapons, the smaller of which requires a resculpt because the way that pistol is handled - a way to „sassy” grip, it does not look as being fired, but as being held by a fashion model...

But to be constructive in my criticizm - personally I would hold my horses with the production just yet and resculpt the rider to be an Exodite Dragon Lord instead of a common Knight - think Fuegan on a mount instead of Kabalite on a mount. Then add some plating on a dino, maybe a psychic harness on it’s head and controll unit behind the saddle to make it less Elfy and more Eldary. Make it so that the result screams „HQ”. I know this adds to the cost, but IMHO increases the „must have” quality of the model and thus increasing the pool of potential buyers. Just my two cents.

Wow guys, I never expected such amazing feedback thank you!!!

I have had a logo designed:


and I do have a few other things on the go for the "company" but I think I have 3 models and then I am finished lol

https://www.dragonheadmodels.com But if anybody is/was interested in things I have going on here, please check it out If you are feeling seriously generous maybe lend me ur money until i give you some resin :p

tumblebomb wrote:The first thing that came to mind was, perhaps the question of was it financially feasible should have come before getting it sculpted? (but
....
seems pretty close to it as well.

Heh yes, this would have been the smart option, however this was completely a passion project, but I quickly realised it might be "ok" and there are enough Eldar players who might also enjoy it. Then it developed into something a bit more. The original plan had been to make the scale larger, around 54mm/75mm. But I just didn't have the funds for this. Ye I agree 80 feels very "out there"

von Hohenstein wrote:Do a Kickstarter and see if you find enough potential customers.

I have looked at kickstarters since you suggested it. It seems they take 10%, but the exposure alone might well be worth it. I spoke to a few guys who have done one and apparently the amount of sharing on social media they had to do almost killed them. I wonder if I do this `pre-order` and then if its failing try kick starter?

Tyranid HordeMade wrote:
....
not be used as a transport.

This was actually an extremely conscious decision. I did not in any way want it to be an item that was coming under IP theft as I was going to "sell" these properly. I kind of assumed if people wanted to use them as eldar it would be very easy to convert as its resin. I would have liked to separate the saddle, but it was impossible in the end.

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:(oh and if possible cut it for casting so you have the dino separate from the rider, you could probably sell it as a riding beast alone too)

Overread wrote:A few thoughts

1) As a sculpt it looks good, d
.......
he army.

Now these points are so fantastic I almost cannot give you enough thanks and information to reply to them.

1: You got me thinking and I am now looking at getting some troops for him now, some lower cost then the 1500 for a single model. But really I will need some more concept artworks done.
2: yes, as soon as I get the sculpts I will be painting it up myself and crossing my fingers :p, the problem is some of the worlds best are expensive. See attached I had my other model painted and it cost £1500 again to have professional painted. But yes, after `pre-orders` I will be selling with a box art one way or another
3: Ye, I think I want to see how this goes behind I jump straight into the rabbit hole lol But it is sorely tempting to just do it ALL!!!! I do very much love Space Elves and dragons/dinosaurs. Humm its a hard point to be in.
4: I would love to do a KS and I think with a simple model with no stretch goals, I could be in a good place. I guess I would need to research, but would people really just buy 1 model without the rest?

nou wrote:While I admire your goal and could spent 45-55£ on a centerpiece model, the execu.....ntial buyers. Just my two cents.

I think you are very right with many of your points, some I cannot change now as its off to be cast but otherwise, my main competition will certainly "I can just kit bash that, the b*stard "

Great cuts sites on the dino,

means it could be ridden by whatever humanoid the buyer wants, whether that's imperial rough riders, a mount for an orc warchief or something totally different (plenty of smaller RPG could have riding dinos)

Honestly that pro painting is REALLY great - that said for selling a model its terrible.


Look at what GW produces for its models, the paint schemes are good, but they are tabletop to hobby level quality in general. Good and clean, but nothing like the colour blending or detail going on in that model painting.

When you show a model like that the actual details and quality of the model gets lost in the skill of the painter painting it. You actually show and advertise a product that the vast majority will NEVER spend the time learning painting to be able to emulate.


Instead you want a really clean and tidy paint scheme. By all means it should be good, its just don't have to be £1500 worth of good on a single model.

A few companies go further, Infinity and Hawk Wargames come to mind as two that use what I'd consider a higher grade of painting skill. Of the two though Infinity takes an edge because their artist will often add detailing through the paint to the faces, things that aren't as visible or aren't even part of the physical model. Hawk (Dropfleet/zone) show high grade, but much of it is highilghting fine details on the model themselves.


What you want with a product photo is to sell a model to a customer, not sell them a work of art. You're after something they can envision emulating and wanting to own and paint up themselves and put on their own table to play with.




As for a KS for one model I would say it really depends.
First up a LOT of KS fail because the person running it doesn't really start marketing until the KS starts. That's the wrong time. Ideally you want to be marketing your model well in advance. The idea being that come launch day you've got a fanbase ready to pledge right at the launch - perhaps even getting you funded in a day (getting funded in the first few days is really important). By the start of the KS marketing should be in full swing, customers should be begging for the launch day and ready to have you take their money. That means you'll have to do basic ground work - that means advertising on community webpages; blogs; podcasts etc.... Having an active company Facebook page to interact with the new fans etc...

Doing all that for one model or for a hundred makes the same effect, you're building your interest base. If you start on the same day as the KS it might take a month for the info to filter out to the community, your KS will just get steam under it by the time it comes to a close.



As for one model that really depends how you present it. People certainly love to buy into models just to paint up. That said going for "more" you want to display some kind of future for your "company". That might mean producing a whole army or it might mean producing a selection of boutique models over time that might not fit a single theme or focus. Ergo show them there's a future even if the KS is only to fund the first model into production (any excess is now ready to be re-invested into the company). Remember to treat KS backers a bit more like investors than customers - they want some background detail; they want to hear progress and know the basic numbers for costs and such. They want to see that what you offer has quality, practical chances to succeed etc...

If you can show them a future for your firm - concept art (it doesn't have to be top rate, just ideas to show that you're wanting to take it further).

For an exodites model if you can show a handful of models that you're taking forward then people will have far more reason to pledge because now you're not just showing them a show-model; you're showing them a game model that will fit into a fully fledge and fleshed out army for them to use in their games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Great cuts sites on the dino,

means it could be ridden by whatever humanoid the buyer wants, whether that's imperial rough riders, a mount for an orc warchief or something totally different (plenty of smaller RPG could have riding dinos)

A very good point indeed! One thought is if its possible to cast dino and rider in their own casting block then you can leave the door potentially open to making other riders for the dino in the future. Even if you've no variable parts for the dino at this stage. IT also means you can expand. Consider how GW does its Adpeticus Titanicus models. They've got weapons on one sprue cast; frame on another and armour on another. They can then release expansions for any one of those 3 parts to expand the model.

For a mount and rider you might have a mount sprue; a rider sprue; then have optional armour upgrades/addons for the model on their own.

Whilst separate sprue to cast with means more cost to cast, it saves money in the long run. If you make 3 alternate riders that gives you 4 total riders. If each one has its own sprue that's 4 smaller rider sprue and 1 mount sprue. If you make them all in one you've got to have 4 large sprue.


Of course there are other ways to do this, its just a thought for the potential future to consider.

Interesting points about the painting of the model and also good to give examples. This model you see is 22cm tall, but tbh with the IP not being mine, I was not selling these models rather just trading or with friends. But what you are saying really is that I paint it myself as I do not have the level to paint as the above painter does, not even close


Well sirs you have given me enough to think about for the next year let alone month befor emy first casts are returned lol I will need to think hard about the KS then also, as it does sound like something that is worth while doing tbh. As I do have more plans with the space elves and ground troops. If you see in the dragonhead website you will actually see the space elf on dragon concept that I am currently having sculpted by joaquin palacios. That will be 54mm so a completely different market to the 28mm one I currently have in the mix. Also I believe that 54mm scale is a tricky one as few people actually care about that scale.

You give me a great idea, i can have other riders and other heads sculpted for the dino! True old school GW style

If that's your painting quality there then that's perfect for advertising a model. Decent clean quality.

By all means if you have really top rated painted models you can show them off, but that one in red above would be just the kind of level that could advertise a model for sale. Show that alongside a bare-resin and you've got yourself a good starting point for what could be used to advertise a product for sale.


Note with "bare resin" or metal lighting is often the most important thing. Some also use a very light wash of a neutral colour just to give the edges something to catch on to raise the details up a bit. In theory you can achieve this with proper photography and light angles as well.

It's certainly a nicely done sculpt, but for me, £55 feels too high. £45 would be pushing it, but I would probably still pass as is, as right now it's just a space elf on a random T-rex. I would suggest getting some more elfy bling added to the dinosaur to tie the rider and mount together.

 insaniak wrote:
It's certainly a nicely done sculpt, but for me, £55 feels too high. £45 would be pushing it, but I would probably still pass as is, as right now it's just a space elf on a random T-rex. I would suggest getting some more elfy bling added to the dinosaur to tie the rider and mount together.

I just want to point out that laser helmets are a very good idea for dinosaurs!

lmao!! Laser hat!! I hadn't considered. I sort of see this model as a test model... just a bloody expensive one lol.

Its very rare to get the majority of things right first time round.

But as I develop this brand, I can certainly add things like this. Multi Part kits, troops on foot etc etc

Thanks Overread too, that is my painting and ye, I would certainly enjoy painting a "box art" the lighting is a great point, I will give it a play as I have a 2 lamp setup which helps allot with photos. Though I have never taken `bare` before.

Type "dino riders" into google and look at the images for some further inspiration. A "hat" for a rax would be closer to a harness/bridle and with lasers might position them on the cheeks aiming forward rather than on the forehead (you're not Dr Evil with sharks )


I do agree that the reptile in your version would benefit from additional weapon/shield/armour general tech display on it. One benefit to what you have now is you could construct armour to bolt onto it as it is now. So you'll have this one which is a more "feral" version or bare bones and then a more heavily armoured version.

Of course you're still dealing with one pose on a model priced at leader level rather than say four or five at a cavalry level. Though you might aim for what GW did with varanguard - a trio or so of varied poses and upgrades.



Like I said before, a lot of this depends how far down the rabbithole you want to go. Ask gamers and "idea" wise we'll take you all the way and further. So in the end a lot has to be what you want from this.


What many might be thinking is along the lines of this
https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/550283648192481273/?lp=true

or other Exodites conversions/concept art that is floating around.