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There was a huge thread on the custodes acting like morons in a short story about them reflexively labeling 200 primaris traitors and massacring them.

I'm sure not as many people read "war in the museum" so this thread won't be as long, but hopefully it won't become a flamefest like the custodes thread did.

Was trazyn being a mechanized douche in WitM?

On one hand sure, he implied he'd free those people from his museum when he said he wouldn't return them to the exhibits he had them in. So he stuck them in a new one.

But those sisters of battle were followers of vandire. What would have happened to them if he'd released them? Yeah, up in smoke. Also he let them know that vaidire had been judged a heretic and traitor.

He did leave the AM magos conscious so his systems could collate data as he wished, and apparently let him send reports to the AM now and then.

Personally I think that Orikan was the real donkey cave in the story, but that's just my view.

All in all it made me interested in seeing the new novel "The infinite and the divine" despite the crappy cover art, and I guess that's what it was meant to do. I admit I'd never really seen trazyn and orikan as enemies before, but given trazyn's obsession with the past and orikan's obsession with the future it did make them opposites, and going from opposites to enemies isn't that big a leap

I don't think either of them came out covered in glory but we are dealing with 2 ancient, slight demented robots with conflicting cases of OCD. But it was an entertaining story and it helped give a bit of character to these guys.

No. He's basically a senile old man which applies to most of the Necron characters.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Was trazyn being a mechanized douche in WitM?

When was he ever not a mechanized douche? lol. it's what makes him hilarious. You should see his dialogue in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2. He helps the necrons protect their world engine from the imperium of man by telling the imperium of man of the world engine so they launch a full scale all out attack on it. His reasoning? You get to engage them on favorable terms.

Which story is this?

Anyone got a link?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Which story is this?

Anyone got a link?

War in the Museum (eShort) - Black Library.

Thanks dude

https://www.amazon.com/War-Museum-Warhammer-40-000-ebook/dp/B084P7TQ3R/ref=sr_1_1?adid=082VK13VJJCZTQYGWWCZ&campaign=211041&creative=374001&dchild=1&keywords=War+in+the+Museum&qid=1589400671&s=books&sr=1-1

I just read it. It retconned a few things. I like the retcons.

Most importantly Tyranids did NOT avoid Solemnance. They DON'T avoid Necron worlds. Trazyn used "deep space lures" to divert Hive Fleet Behemonth from Solemnance. It did NOT avoid Solemnance.

It also explained how the Tyranids escaped. Shadow in the Warp also ****s up technology and that's how the Tyranids break out of their exhibits.

7th ed says Tyranids broke out mulitple times so War in the Museum is just the first.

Wat. How does the shadow break technology?

What retcons were there? Newcron retcons sound lovely.

pm713 wrote:
Wat. How does the shadow break technology?

What retcons were there? Newcron retcons sound lovely.

"‘Tyranids project a psychic energy, Trazyn. A shadow in the warp. Especially Hive Fleet Kronos. You artificials can’t feel it, but it disrupts more than psychic patterns. Technology, arcane devices, even languages can come under its effect. And what remains of my organics tell me that the shadow has fallen on Solemnace.’

Rath, Robert. War in the Museum (Warhammer 40,000) . Kindle Edition. "

I told you the retcon. Tyranids did not avoid Solemnance. Trazyn avoided the Tyranids.

Wonder who Orikan was wanting to see?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wonder who Orikan was wanting to see?

It's definitely a Necron

"The great sleep had damaged his engrammatic matrices, and he could no longer remember information unless he wrote it. " - Talking about a Necron Cryptek

"Her engrammatic matrices are of historical import, which is why she’s here. But she’s broken." - "Engrammatic Matrices" so definitely talking about a Necron Cryptek

roboemperor wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Was trazyn being a mechanized douche in WitM?

When was he ever not a mechanized douche? lol. it's what makes him hilarious. You should see his dialogue in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2. He helps the necrons protect their world engine from the imperium of man by telling the imperium of man of the world engine so they launch a full scale all out attack on it. His reasoning? You get to engage them on favorable terms.

While there is a lot I do not like about newcron fluff, I do have to say that getting Trollzyn out of it has been an absolute joy.

One should read Fabius Bile : Clonelord for more Trazyn. It deals with an early encounter, M34 or so, between Bile and Trazyn, before the Necron emergence, before anyone even really knew the Necrons were out there or what they were. Bile ended up trading him an interesting trinket to get away...

 totalfailure wrote:
One should read Fabius Bile : Clonelord for more Trazyn. It deals with an early encounter, M34 or so, between Bile and Trazyn, before the Necron emergence, before anyone even really knew the Necrons were out there or what they were. Bile ended up trading him an interesting trinket to get away...

Just love how Bile thoroughly gaks his pants when doing a bit of mental jousting with him.

"Are you the being you were, before you were poured into the metal sarcophagus , or are you merely the ghost of who and what you once were?" Fabius turned slowly, keeping the pacing metal figure in sight.
"The same might be said of you- are you even yourself, or are you merely a copy of a copy of a copy, a faded imprint of a thing long dead?" Trazyn said.
Fabius froze.
"Yes, I know all about you Fabius Bile."

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

roboemperor wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Was trazyn being a mechanized douche in WitM?

When was he ever not a mechanized douche? lol. it's what makes him hilarious. You should see his dialogue in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2. He helps the necrons protect their world engine from the imperium of man by telling the imperium of man of the world engine so they launch a full scale all out attack on it. His reasoning? You get to engage them on favorable terms.

While there is a lot I do not like about newcron fluff, I do have to say that getting Trollzyn out of it has been an absolute joy.

Am I the only person on this planet that doesn't like Trazyn....

pm713 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

roboemperor wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Was trazyn being a mechanized douche in WitM?

When was he ever not a mechanized douche? lol. it's what makes him hilarious. You should see his dialogue in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2. He helps the necrons protect their world engine from the imperium of man by telling the imperium of man of the world engine so they launch a full scale all out attack on it. His reasoning? You get to engage them on favorable terms.

While there is a lot I do not like about newcron fluff, I do have to say that getting Trollzyn out of it has been an absolute joy.

Am I the only person on this planet that doesn't like Trazyn....

Yes. And you're wrong.

In all seriousness, he's a FUN character. That doesn't work for everyone in 40k (see everyone who hates Orks) but for a lot of people, there's a strong appeal.

 JNAProductions wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

roboemperor wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Was trazyn being a mechanized douche in WitM?

When was he ever not a mechanized douche? lol. it's what makes him hilarious. You should see his dialogue in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2. He helps the necrons protect their world engine from the imperium of man by telling the imperium of man of the world engine so they launch a full scale all out attack on it. His reasoning? You get to engage them on favorable terms.

While there is a lot I do not like about newcron fluff, I do have to say that getting Trollzyn out of it has been an absolute joy.

Am I the only person on this planet that doesn't like Trazyn....

Yes. And you're wrong.

In all seriousness, he's a FUN character. That doesn't work for everyone in 40k (see everyone who hates Orks) but for a lot of people, there's a strong appeal.

I think he's quite refreshing as far as character archetypes go, as in terms of warmongering tyrants, raiders, generals and top duelists, 40k already has them in spades. Trazyn is one of the few characters where their motivations don't lie with expanding their empire or running off to beat everyone in personal fights, he's much more removed from all the overarching warfare in wanting to just to have the ultimate historical collection in the galaxy. I think it's also on the nose with how most 40k players are in wanting the new shiny that gets released by GW and constantly expanding our repetoire of plastic crack.

 Grimskul wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

roboemperor wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Was trazyn being a mechanized douche in WitM?

When was he ever not a mechanized douche? lol. it's what makes him hilarious. You should see his dialogue in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2. He helps the necrons protect their world engine from the imperium of man by telling the imperium of man of the world engine so they launch a full scale all out attack on it. His reasoning? You get to engage them on favorable terms.

While there is a lot I do not like about newcron fluff, I do have to say that getting Trollzyn out of it has been an absolute joy.

Am I the only person on this planet that doesn't like Trazyn....

Yes. And you're wrong.

In all seriousness, he's a FUN character. That doesn't work for everyone in 40k (see everyone who hates Orks) but for a lot of people, there's a strong appeal.

I think he's quite refreshing as far as character archetypes go, as in terms of warmongering tyrants, raiders, generals and top duelists, 40k already has them in spades. Trazyn is one of the few characters where their motivations don't lie with expanding their empire or running off to beat everyone in personal fights, he's much more removed from all the overarching warfare in wanting to just to have the ultimate historical collection in the galaxy. I think it's also on the nose with how most 40k players are in wanting the new shiny that gets released by GW and constantly expanding our repetoire of plastic crack.

Well Trazyn’s motivations in his own mind are quite noble.

“You pluck open flesh, to learn its secrets. I do the same with time. I chop out the mechanisms of occurrence and study them at my leisure. This history of this galaxy is an open book to me, and my collection is the story of everything.’
Fabius turned slowly, taking in the ghostly images as they drifted thick upon the air. ‘And what is the point of recording such a story, if there is no one to appreciate it?’
‘Yet.’
‘What?’
‘No one to appreciate it yet.’ Trazyn’s metal fingers tapped against his staff. ‘I am no more unique in this universe than you. We are outliers, true, but not the whole of the species. And when my folk awake from their slumber of aeons, I shall have a story to tell them.”

 JNAProductions wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

roboemperor wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Was trazyn being a mechanized douche in WitM?

When was he ever not a mechanized douche? lol. it's what makes him hilarious. You should see his dialogue in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2. He helps the necrons protect their world engine from the imperium of man by telling the imperium of man of the world engine so they launch a full scale all out attack on it. His reasoning? You get to engage them on favorable terms.

While there is a lot I do not like about newcron fluff, I do have to say that getting Trollzyn out of it has been an absolute joy.

Am I the only person on this planet that doesn't like Trazyn....

Yes. And you're wrong.

In all seriousness, he's a FUN character. That doesn't work for everyone in 40k (see everyone who hates Orks) but for a lot of people, there's a strong appeal.

That's the thing. I LOVE Orks because they're fun. One of my favourite things in all 40k is the Ork who time travelled backwards and proceeded to kill himself for two of his favourite gun.

But Trazyn isn't funny to me. He just seems lame and sad especially comparing him to how much better Necrons could be.

What would you prefer Necrons be?

Because, for me personally, I like the Newcrons more than Oldcrons. Since Oldcrons were basically metallic Tyranids.

 JNAProductions wrote:
What would you prefer Necrons be?

Because, for me personally, I like the Newcrons more than Oldcrons. Since Oldcrons were basically metallic Tyranids.

Oldcrons with a bit more character in the high ups.

I've always been annoyed by people saying that. It's like saying that Chaos are Space Marines with spikes.

pm713 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
What would you prefer Necrons be?

Because, for me personally, I like the Newcrons more than Oldcrons. Since Oldcrons were basically metallic Tyranids.

Oldcrons with a bit more character in the high ups.

I've always been annoyed by people saying that. It's like saying that Chaos are Space Marines with spikes.

Imperial Marines are staunch defenders of humanity, cruel and merciless, but devoted to keeping the Imperium safe.
Chaos Marines are despoilers of the galaxy, lusting after nothing but their own desires and, for some, the worship and sacrifices for their god.
They're mirrors of each other-and that's part of the point.

Oldcrons and Tyranids are not meant to be mirrors of each other, but one is an extragalactic menace that desires only to consume everything, and the other is ancient galactic menace that desires only to destroy everything.

I'm simplifying it, of course, but they feel way too similar, to me, at least. You're free to feel different (as you clearly do) and considering it's the story of toy soldiers, I think we can agree to disagree on this peacefully.

pm713 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

roboemperor wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Was trazyn being a mechanized douche in WitM?

When was he ever not a mechanized douche? lol. it's what makes him hilarious. You should see his dialogue in Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2. He helps the necrons protect their world engine from the imperium of man by telling the imperium of man of the world engine so they launch a full scale all out attack on it. His reasoning? You get to engage them on favorable terms.

While there is a lot I do not like about newcron fluff, I do have to say that getting Trollzyn out of it has been an absolute joy.

Am I the only person on this planet that doesn't like Trazyn....

I know how you feel, look at my tagline.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
What would you prefer Necrons be?

Because, for me personally, I like the Newcrons more than Oldcrons. Since Oldcrons were basically metallic Tyranids.

Oldcrons with a bit more character in the high ups.

I've always been annoyed by people saying that. It's like saying that Chaos are Space Marines with spikes.

Imperial Marines are staunch defenders of humanity, cruel and merciless, but devoted to keeping the Imperium safe.
Chaos Marines are despoilers of the galaxy, lusting after nothing but their own desires and, for some, the worship and sacrifices for their god.
They're mirrors of each other-and that's part of the point.

Oldcrons and Tyranids are not meant to be mirrors of each other, but one is an extragalactic menace that desires only to consume everything, and the other is ancient galactic menace that desires only to destroy everything.

I'm simplifying it, of course, but they feel way too similar, to me, at least. You're free to feel different (as you clearly do) and considering it's the story of toy soldiers, I think we can agree to disagree on this peacefully.

I think the imperium and necrons are mirrors of each other. Masses of effectively insignificant drones with no voices ruled by an aristocracy of insane, petty, selfish elites in the name of a divine ruler that has been long absent and more a myth than anything else to most.

I've always seen the tyranids as 40k's version of Lovecraftian horror: A vast godlike intellect that is utterly indifferent to humanity and is seemingly unstoppable. Something that is only aware of humanity in the sense of it being a food source, with nothing like a human mind to relate to. Like cthulhu, yog sothoth, etc. Humans are nothing to them but something to use, consume and forget.

If you want to look into other ways the tyranids are sort of lovecraftian in nature, read "The shadow over isnnsmouth" (Freely available online) and compare the story to a genestealer cult.

 JNAProductions wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
What would you prefer Necrons be?

Because, for me personally, I like the Newcrons more than Oldcrons. Since Oldcrons were basically metallic Tyranids.

Oldcrons with a bit more character in the high ups.

I've always been annoyed by people saying that. It's like saying that Chaos are Space Marines with spikes.

Imperial Marines are staunch defenders of humanity, cruel and merciless, but devoted to keeping the Imperium safe.
Chaos Marines are despoilers of the galaxy, lusting after nothing but their own desires and, for some, the worship and sacrifices for their god.
They're mirrors of each other-and that's part of the point.

Oldcrons and Tyranids are not meant to be mirrors of each other, but one is an extragalactic menace that desires only to consume everything, and the other is ancient galactic menace that desires only to destroy everything.

I'm simplifying it, of course, but they feel way too similar, to me, at least. You're free to feel different (as you clearly do) and considering it's the story of toy soldiers, I think we can agree to disagree on this peacefully.

We can. It would be boring if everyone thought the same after all.

There are certainly elements of newcron fluff I like, namely adding more depth of character to them beyond the old 'want to destroy everything' vibe. But I feel they went too far, and I do not like what they did with the C'Tan.

I'd definitely keep the ability of Lords to have more characters if I rewrote Necrons. But it would definitely have more similarities to Oldcrons than Newcrons.

What exactly do you prefer in oldcrons? I would personnaly stand on th newcron side as I find more delight in in-depth written characters and backgrounds.

To my mind, since 40k is all about imagining the adventures of your toy soldiers in the far-flung future, I find that you get much more room in this sandbox to make up your sagas with the newcrons, who are in a way a mirror to the Imperium (btw first time I stumble on this remark, but I find it just great), with internal rivalries, secrets, complex sociaty, divergent schools of how to bring back the necron dominion...

The oldcrons feel a bit restrained as legions of genocidal soulless robot.

Oldcrons were shallow, but much more cooler/deadlier/scarier.

Newcrons have depth, but they're just slavers now. Like the white man invading the new world and taking native americans as slaves back to europe. They're literally no different than humans other than having higher tech. They don't even have the Tau's greater good or blanket mind control going on.

I liked old crons and thought they were different from 'nids in the same way I did for their two original inspirations; namely the Terminator and Alien/Starship troopers.

When Newcrons came out, it literally felt like they went 'What if we turned them into Tomb Kings in space?'. Suddenly there were Egyptian references everywhere, the Lords were 'Dynasties', and they all squabbled in an extremely human way. Whether you liked oldcrons or not, newcrons are just really really human. Which absolutely destroyed any horror/menace aspect to their concept. You could change the artwork to people instead of robots and absolutely nothing would change in how you write their modern lore.

Don't get me wrong, I like Trazyn. But I like him how I like the Primarchs. They're theoretically not human, but they're written as if they are. And whilst that's great from a reading and character perspective, it sucks from a lore one.

When I look at Orks, they're not human. They don't pretend to be. They prioritise differently, they socialise differently, in every way that counts, an Ork is not a human.

Eldar are a bit trickier. GW talk a lot about how much more complex and alien their languages and society are in the lore, but often the poor writing means that they end up being humans in space. Still, there's been a very deliberate lore decision to push them as 'alien', whether it's always pulled off or not. Lots of humans wandering around talking about how imponderable the Eldar are, how weird their decisions are, and so on. They just about make the jump in lore from being humans in space, even if they often fail in execution (bad writers gonna write).

Tau? Ehhh...someone at GW thought that making them super-communists and mildly racist equalled 'alien'. Which....it doesn't really. They're humans in space. Attaching a human political philosophy only humanises them more.

Hrud? Pretty alien in the few depictions I've seen. Which isn't many. Same for the Kroot.

Then there's the instectoids, who are the easiest to make alien with the least explanation. Vespid, Megarachnid, and the big bugs themselves, Tyranids.


But newcrons? Nope. Just Egyptian humans in space.