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If you grew into an immature adult in the 90s and early 2000‘s, you probably remember the clerks, mall rats, chasing Amy, dogma and Jay and silent Bob series. I did. I loved it, even though it was a movie about stoners and I have never touched marijuana in my life. I still found the characters fun. Since this was on Prime, I decided to watch it because I grew up with these characters. I wanted to see where they were at. The movie starts off absolutely terrible, making fun of reboots and restarts and made this a terrible version of Jay and silent Bob strike back. It was essentially the same beginning with a slightly different premise, which they of course made fun of with mocking reboots. I thought I was going to hate it. However, very quickly into the movie you find out that Jay is actually a father, having knocked up Shannon Elizabeth in Jay and silent Bob strike back. The movie quickly derails from it’s terrible plotline and becomes a story about growing up and becoming a responsible parent, meeting friendly old faces along the way who have grown up and become parents themselves, like Holden McNeil. Now, this is still a Jay and silent Bob movie, so there’s ton of inappropriateness, including his daughters burgeoning sexuality and drug usage herself. It’s there. It doesn’t get skipped, again this is one of those movies. But the message about growing up and being better than you were was astounding. I have to give Kevin Smith props, I thought I was going to turn it off a few minutes in with how bad it was, but that was an act. It showed its true colors once it became about family, and I’m very glad that I finished it.

I love Mallrats, Chasing Amy and Dogma as much as the next guy (Clerks too, to a lesser extent). I gave Kevin Smith a pass when he made Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back, as I felt he was just trying to wrap up their story.

What Smith has done since then only proves that he's run out of ideas. No better example of that exists than this reboot. It just felt like Kevin Smith was trying to give his daughter a platform to start her acting career.

Clerks 2 was solid. I thought this had some really strong moments, and the end was a lot of fun, but it was pretty terrible getting there. My first reaction from the Mini-Movie Review thread:

Free with Prime. Sadly, this is pretty awful. Loaded with lampshading that the movie is basically an acting credit for his daughter with a cast mostly made up of friends doing a favor after his brush with death, which.... fair, but doesn't make it good. Leans a lot on Mewes to carry the film which goes about as well as you'd expect. Act 3 is actually pretty okay. Lots of comic/film industry jabs with the right actors to make it appropriately self deprecating. Pretty low effort affair.

There seems to be quite a bit of movies/media about the need of growing up and the responsibility of being a parent made recently.
God of War, Last of Us, Stranger things S2, Jay and Silent bob Reboot.
The cynic in me makes me think it is targeted at my and others generation that we never grew up and we are not responsible(and maybe targeting people who dont have children about the responsibility to have children? IDK)
But it makes me wonder if something bigger is going on, or something, about how as society we never really grow up and become responsible to the fullest extent we need be.
Still, however, but Jay and Silent bob Comeback was that episode of The Flash.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

But it makes me wonder if something bigger is going on, or something, about how as society we never really grow up and become responsible to the fullest extent we need be.

It's likely more the opposite of this. Culturally, being a good, involved father is far more of the norm than its ever really been and the flip side of that is a lot more dads are finding joy and meaning in their relationships with their kids and that naturally becomes the focus of the stories they tell. The idea of the "daddening" of games has been going on for a while, and I think it just comes down to the people making this stuff writing what they know. 20 years ago, Smith was writing stories about his insecurities in dating and deciding what to do with life. Now (and realistically for a while) he's writing about the struggles of raising kids.

Shrug. Well, I enjoyed the idea of “everyone has to grow up sometime”. And the idea that it leaned heavily on Mewes...well, duh! He’s the one who talks. Incessantly. Even if you don’t want him to. Of course he’s going to take a huge front seat. A lot of these “immature” actors ARE growing up! And they want to focus on what makes them passionate now. Not stick with how immature they were 20-30 years ago. Who can blame them?

Right, but Mewes has always been a limited actor at best. He's got a gimmick and all, but that makes him a great side character. Smith's films have always needed better actors to carry them, which I suppose is a big part of the reason the movie improves once Smith's daughter joins the cast.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Shrug. Well, I enjoyed the idea of “everyone has to grow up sometime”. And the idea that it leaned heavily on Mewes...well, duh! He’s the one who talks. Incessantly. Even if you don’t want him to. Of course he’s going to take a huge front seat. A lot of these “immature” actors ARE growing up! And they want to focus on what makes them passionate now. Not stick with how immature they were 20-30 years ago. Who can blame them?

Im personally always kinda wary of "Everyone has to grow up sometime" narratives, mostly because when i have had that thrown to me, it was by peoples whose definition of it was pretty much "Let go of what you like, get this hobby, and be miserable the rest of your life"
Now granted, The movie was more of a "You gotta get your life together for your kid" kinda stuff.
But im just always wary of the "Grow up" Narratives.

In this movie, growing up is being a big enough person to let your daughter have the last joint, so....

 LunarSol wrote:
In this movie, growing up is being a big enough person to let your daughter have the last joint, so....

Dude, it’s Jay and silent Bob. You knew that was gonna happen. The point is, he put his daughter before himself. As messed up as it was, he thought of her first. It was always going to have inappropriate stuff in it. Please tell me you at least got the message. It wasn’t deep, but it was good. The whole point of it was putting his daughter first. There are some messed up points along the way, but he did his best to put her before himself.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Shrug. Well, I enjoyed the idea of “everyone has to grow up sometime”. And the idea that it leaned heavily on Mewes...well, duh! He’s the one who talks. Incessantly. Even if you don’t want him to. Of course he’s going to take a huge front seat. A lot of these “immature” actors ARE growing up! And they want to focus on what makes them passionate now. Not stick with how immature they were 20-30 years ago. Who can blame them?

Im personally always kinda wary of "Everyone has to grow up sometime" narratives, mostly because when i have had that thrown to me, it was by peoples whose definition of it was pretty much "Let go of what you like, get this hobby, and be miserable the rest of your life"
Now granted, The movie was more of a "You gotta get your life together for your kid" kinda stuff.
But im just always wary of the "Grow up" Narratives.

Gotta agree with you there, it always feels a little too preachy IMO, which typically detracts from the purpose of the majority of movies, which is entertainment. It reminds me a lot of C.S. Lewis' take on maturity, when he says,

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."

I personally feel is a good approach towards the concept of growing up, considering we're on a forum that is largely about playing with toy soldiers

My personal definition for maturity is “knowing when it is an appropriate time to be immature.“ That said, I appreciate series closers like this one and American reunion for the American pie series. Both are ridiculous comedies that I grew up with as a teenager that I can continue to relate to as they grow up with me. I see them the same way as I see Green Day and blink-182.

Using voice text, so apologies for titles not having appropriate capitalization

There was an American Pie reunion/finale? Not the one with the wedding?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
There was an American Pie reunion/finale? Not the one with the wedding?

There was. It was called “American Reunion”, and had ALL the characters from the first two movies (except Jim’s mom who passed away in the story). All of them had grown up, most had kids, and Stiffler was the only one unable to move past highschool for most of the movie. Hijinks still ensued. I expected it to be like Wedding, not that good. But it was a great send off for the series. Only place left they could go is “American Funeral” with somebody dying and them doing old people hijinks.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
My personal definition for maturity is “knowing when it is an appropriate time to be immature.“ That said, I appreciate series closers like this one and American reunion for the American pie series. Both are ridiculous comedies that I grew up with as a teenager that I can continue to relate to as they grow up with me. I see them the same way as I see Green Day and blink-182.

Using voice text, so apologies for titles not having appropriate capitalization

I tend to agree with that idea of growing up.
Its like the people i work with, I never tell them they cant like barney or other such things. just when is appropriate to bring it up(I wish my colleagues would feel the same TBH, it makes them like you so much more and not get kicked knee when you do)
But like i said, i tend to be wary of the "You need to grow up" things quite a few tell others just because it was never framed as anything other than "Go get a different hobby and job and join the real world"

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
In this movie, growing up is being a big enough person to let your daughter have the last joint, so....

Dude, it’s Jay and silent Bob. You knew that was gonna happen. The point is, he put his daughter before himself. As messed up as it was, he thought of her first. It was always going to have inappropriate stuff in it. Please tell me you at least got the message. It wasn’t deep, but it was good. The whole point of it was putting his daughter first. There are some messed up points along the way, but he did his best to put her before himself.

That wasn't a criticism. That was a response to the post above about how movies about growing up are often about giving up what makes you happy to be miserable. Very much not the point here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
My personal definition for maturity is “knowing when it is an appropriate time to be immature.“ That said, I appreciate series closers like this one and American reunion for the American pie series. Both are ridiculous comedies that I grew up with as a teenager that I can continue to relate to as they grow up with me. I see them the same way as I see Green Day and blink-182.

Using voice text, so apologies for titles not having appropriate capitalization

I do feel they already did this with J&SB Strike Back. They even had God close the book at the end.

I know Clerks 2 happened after (which I should watch again. I remember quite liking it at the time) but it didn't really open things up to the point where I felt the need for another wrap up.