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So, after a big second place GT win after crushing 2 Space Marine armies ( Ultra Marines, Blood Angels ), how do Ork players feel about the current meta? Are you happy that Orks are strong in 8th/9th edition? Are you glad the green tide is strong right now? How many Space Marine armies have you killed at your local meta? I honestly am considering ebaying my Primaris in favor of Orks atm, the PA book and codex look amazing, and I honestly cant wait to see what the 9th edition codex brings to the green players since 8th/9th has proven they are already an amazing army to play, especially in objective games.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 06:39:04


 
   
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8th edition?
....... Did you miss the last 2 months?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 06:38:01


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BrianDavion wrote:
8th edition?
....... Did you miss the last 2 months?


Sorry had a few beers, corrected ; )
   
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Flukes happen. If Ork players cannot replicate the same success they're not to be taken seriously, just like in 8th.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Flukes happen. If Ork players cannot replicate the same success they're not to be taken seriously, just like in 8th.


So I guess take the Ork codex seriously, but not the players?
   
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I think the issue there is that playing orks, to some extent, requires that you take things less seriously!

I've been winning more than losing with my Orks in 8th/9th, so I'm quite pleased with how things are going. I'm happy as long as it feels like a fight and not a slaughter, though, so I'm not too fussed about the win or lose as I am about trying to win!

Maybe I've fallen too far into the ork mentality...

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 Alwrath wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Flukes happen. If Ork players cannot replicate the same success they're not to be taken seriously, just like in 8th.


So I guess take the Ork codex seriously, but not the players?


More like let's wait for consistency at the top tables before decrying Orks a 9th edition competitive success. That's at least how I took Slayer's comment.

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Now, hold on, I need to look up the stats for my squad sergeant's neovolkite chargeblast annihilator, it's got a different statline to the regular occularium boltlaunch chadrifles the rest of the squad is equipped with. Am I in specularis doctrine this turn or shadenfreude doctrine, I don't remember, it makes my AP better for wepons with 'bolt' in the name and my Steel Sharks chapter can reroll 1s to hit and 3s to wound while they're in shadenfreude.
 
   
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Italy

Orks are not like SM that can field whatever they want and worst case scenario they'll end up with "just" a solid list.

Orks MUST play with optimized lists otherwise they're trash. Some optimized lists are also boring as hell to play with, starting with the green tide. Which by the way gains a lot in games with time limitations, don't trust data about GTs without analyzing them. Top tables results are based on very different games than the average ones, that the majority is playing, based on lots of skew lists that aren't common at all.

Overall orks look solid at them moment, far from being overpowered but with multiple builds that work. I'm quite happy with their current state.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 10:34:34


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Where are these winning Orks lists.
MY Orks are Zero from three in 9th :(
   
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When green tides become the only competitive build for orks, everyone loses. It's usually a sign of a highly unhealthy meta where infantry skew manages to eek out wins because everyone is gearing towards another big bad.

Most ork players don't enjoy playing green tide lists, especially not at tournaments. Moving and transporting that amount of models is cumbersome, especially when you move, charge and pile-in 30 models to kill one and a half primaris marines.
A game using the green tide mostly revolves around removing models and standing in the right places while doing little to no damage to your opponent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
keithandor wrote:
Where are these winning Orks lists.
MY Orks are Zero from three in 9th :(


We have 4 top 4 placements so far, two were running tide variants, one buggy list and one buggies with massed trukkboys.

Lists can be found at the end of the first post in this thread: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/790345.page

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 11:44:15


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 Mixzremixzd wrote:
 Alwrath wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Flukes happen. If Ork players cannot replicate the same success they're not to be taken seriously, just like in 8th.


So I guess take the Ork codex seriously, but not the players?


More like let's wait for consistency at the top tables before decrying Orks a 9th edition competitive success. That's at least how I took Slayer's comment.

Bingo. Random lists will top time to time, but that doesn't mean everything is cheeky when it comes to balance or army consistency.
The fact that the OP would sell their current army in favor of Orks because of a couple of tournaments really says more about the OP wanting Orks to be good rather than them actually being good.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Bingo. Random lists will top time to time, but that doesn't mean everything is cheeky when it comes to balance or army consistency.
The fact that the OP would sell their current army in favor of Orks because of a couple of tournaments really says more about the OP wanting Orks to be good rather than them actually being good.


I would even add to this that, even in an established meta (which we don't have yet), Orks are known for throwing up the occasional odd-ball list that has great success at a major tournament and is never heard from again. For example in 8th, when everyone said green tide was the only competitive list, there was that Australian player who won a tourney using nothing but MANZ in vehicles. Basically an "elite" style army, but no one else was really able to make that work. Orks are weird like that.

Our Ork players kind of like 9th so far. Hordes took a small hit, but morale is significantly more forgiving (since they made it even less meaningful than it was in 8th), and they've had a lot of success on the smaller board size. They've been able to screen people out of reserves, and encircle objectives easier.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Bingo. Random lists will top time to time, but that doesn't mean everything is cheeky when it comes to balance or army consistency.
The fact that the OP would sell their current army in favor of Orks because of a couple of tournaments really says more about the OP wanting Orks to be good rather than them actually being good.


Shush.
We need meta-chasers to believe that they can get easy wins by switching to orks and then fail miserably so people really interested in orks can buy painted ork boyz for cheap on ebay.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 15:39:18


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Climate change is real
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I am going to suggest the reason we are seeing non marine armies doing well is that Marines have not adjusted their lists for 9th.

Marines are still doing well despite often playing the game like its 8th edition.

Specific ork lists are doing well because they are playing 9th edition in 9th edition, they are swarming objectives for primary and are scoring most of their secondaries from board table based objectives.

Marine shooty/gunline lists are just as kill now as in 8th, but they need units that can go up and start on objectives.

Once we start seeing people taking 3-4 units of incursors or infiltrators as their core with some of the warsuits to support where they start in control of the middle objectives and have hard hitting units designed to clear and hold where the other player pushes up on them we will see SM on top a lot again, this of course could all change again in 1 month when the new SM codex comes out if there are points increases to SM.
   
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Lot of delusional people desperately trying to come up with excuses for why orks are nearly consistently placing in top tables.
   
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Edit: Nah don't worry about it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 17:47:18


The Qarnakh Dynasty - 1010pts
W-L-D:
the_scotsman wrote:
Now, hold on, I need to look up the stats for my squad sergeant's neovolkite chargeblast annihilator, it's got a different statline to the regular occularium boltlaunch chadrifles the rest of the squad is equipped with. Am I in specularis doctrine this turn or shadenfreude doctrine, I don't remember, it makes my AP better for wepons with 'bolt' in the name and my Steel Sharks chapter can reroll 1s to hit and 3s to wound while they're in shadenfreude.
 
   
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 Jidmah wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Bingo. Random lists will top time to time, but that doesn't mean everything is cheeky when it comes to balance or army consistency.
The fact that the OP would sell their current army in favor of Orks because of a couple of tournaments really says more about the OP wanting Orks to be good rather than them actually being good.


Shush.
We need meta-chasers to believe that they can get easy wins by switching to orks and then fail miserably so people really interested in orks can buy painted ork boyz for cheap on ebay.

Oh don't get me wrong, I want Orks to be good, but there's nothing to suggest they are.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
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 Alwrath wrote:
So, after a big second place GT win after crushing 2 Space Marine armies ( Ultra Marines, Blood Angels ), how do Ork players feel about the current meta? Are you happy that Orks are strong in 8th/9th edition? Are you glad the green tide is strong right now? How many Space Marine armies have you killed at your local meta? I honestly am considering ebaying my Primaris in favor of Orks atm, the PA book and codex look amazing, and I honestly cant wait to see what the 9th edition codex brings to the green players since 8th/9th has proven they are already an amazing army to play, especially in objective games.


They were "crushing" victories...maybe in points but not in killing, and that is the point. The Ork lists are geared towards taking and holding objectives and scoring secondaries. This benefits players who know how to use their armies and maximize strengths, this is in contrast to a lot of SM players I have fought who see the game as a shooting gallery where the only goal is killing everything as fast as possible, if you don't table your opponent was it even worth playing?

There is also the fact that a lot of players are gearing their lists towards anti space marine/vehicle. So lots of elite killing firepower and enough punch to knock out heavy vehicles. The UM list that was shared earlier that the Ork list beat is a great example of that. LOTS of plasma and high strength shots but very few units capable of killing infantry in large numbers. Go ahead and shoot those Plasma guns at an Ork boy, i'll take that as a win, especially since I'll still likely get at least a 5++ and/or a 6+ FNP.

Once the tournament scene stabilizes in a few months, you are going to see competitive players taking more anti-horde fire power just in case they do come across some of these ork infantry skew lists.

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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Bingo. Random lists will top time to time, but that doesn't mean everything is cheeky when it comes to balance or army consistency.
The fact that the OP would sell their current army in favor of Orks because of a couple of tournaments really says more about the OP wanting Orks to be good rather than them actually being good.


Shush.
We need meta-chasers to believe that they can get easy wins by switching to orks and then fail miserably so people really interested in orks can buy painted ork boyz for cheap on ebay.

Oh don't get me wrong, I want Orks to be good, but there's nothing to suggest they are.


And what threshold must they hit, in order to convince you?

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 Void__Dragon wrote:
Lot of delusional people desperately trying to come up with excuses for why orks are nearly consistently placing in top tables.


It's weird, I thought the definition of "consistent" was doing well, MANY TIMES, not "on average not doing very well, but doing extremely well a few times" which is what we are currently seeing with orks.

7 Ork armies in total in tournaments considered by Goonhammer, with 4 doing very well, and 3 doing extremely poorly. Doesn't seem like "consistency".

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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 Dysartes wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Bingo. Random lists will top time to time, but that doesn't mean everything is cheeky when it comes to balance or army consistency.
The fact that the OP would sell their current army in favor of Orks because of a couple of tournaments really says more about the OP wanting Orks to be good rather than them actually being good.


Shush.
We need meta-chasers to believe that they can get easy wins by switching to orks and then fail miserably so people really interested in orks can buy painted ork boyz for cheap on ebay.

Oh don't get me wrong, I want Orks to be good, but there's nothing to suggest they are.


And what threshold must they hit, in order to convince you?

Consistency in placings. As of now, we are still at the beginning of the edition and are settling into what is good. 3 tournament placings LOOKS good, but I don't think it'll hold steam like how the beginning of 8th looked with various lists placing (Roboute parking lot didn't last as long as people expected after all.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Ork buggies placing 4th:
https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-invasion-gt/

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
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and not a suit of power armor to be seen in the top 3

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Who cares. This thread is about orks, we already have enough marine threads to found a chapter from them.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
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 Jidmah wrote:
Who cares. This thread is about orks, we already have enough marine threads to found a chapter from them.


I think he was giving credit to the Orks with that statement my friend
   
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the_scotsman wrote:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
Lot of delusional people desperately trying to come up with excuses for why orks are nearly consistently placing in top tables.


It's weird, I thought the definition of "consistent" was doing well, MANY TIMES, not "on average not doing very well, but doing extremely well a few times" which is what we are currently seeing with orks.

7 Ork armies in total in tournaments considered by Goonhammer, with 4 doing very well, and 3 doing extremely poorly. Doesn't seem like "consistency".


Your seven army figure is from an article that is almost a month old. Since then Orks have had even more success.

Are they overpowered or top tier? No, probably not. I think they're worse than Marines, Custodes, and Harlequins, and possibly worse than Chaos armies leaning heavily into Nurgle (Death Guard or otherwise).

But this whiny bs about how an army that has placed highly on several occasions while leaning into different units depending on the list since ninth edition started and continue to do so is actually bad is nonsense.

Genestealer Cults are actually awful, and you might notice haven't placed on gak yet. In fact, in the stats you referenced IIRC they weren't even played a single time!
   
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
(Roboute parking lot didn't last as long as people expected after all.


I never expected Robute Soup to last. I think depending on how Core shakes out he could make a come back but unless they screw up and forget to change his bubble to core, still only in UM lists.

The biggest factors for 9th meta are things we don’t know yet. How do the marine chapters redistribute after their merge and purge supplements, what happens to Necrons? The Gladiator Tanks and Speeders could have a huge impact but we haven’t seen a data sheet yet.

Bear with me here to get it back to orks....

Impulsor is about a hundred points. The gladiator Lancer is an impulsor with a Heavy Laser Destroyer Turret. About 40-50 points. If you get a discount on the turret for giving up carrying capacity they get pretty cheap. The anti infantry version, 100 points of Impulsor, 60 points of turret, and.. whatever the hell Tempest Not Quite Hurricane Bolters are. 4x Bolt Rifle? Rapid fire 30” s4 -1 D1 for 8-10 points? 160-180 points, 40 shots? With a non-transport discount it could put a crimp in ork tide meta, full price and it’s less so. If they are cheaper, it also depends on if you can squadron them.

What I’m getting at is there’s a lot of new “hotness” that both could go either way on the meta, AND will have to be tested for strengths, weaknesses and surprises.

Nor have we seen what they’re doing, if anything, to grots and other ork units that are getting reshuffled.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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Breton wrote:
The Gladiator Tanks and Speeders could have a huge impact but we haven’t seen a data sheet yet.


We have seen a datasheet for one of the Storm Speeders, during the Codex preview - and it led to many complaints from Eldar & Dark Eldar players regarding its speed.

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 Alwrath wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Who cares. This thread is about orks, we already have enough marine threads to found a chapter from them.


I think he was giving credit to the Orks with that statement my friend


... aaaand two posts later we are discussing marines again.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in ca
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 Dysartes wrote:
Breton wrote:
The Gladiator Tanks and Speeders could have a huge impact but we haven’t seen a data sheet yet.


We have seen a datasheet for one of the Storm Speeders, during the Codex preview - and it led to many complaints from Eldar & Dark Eldar players regarding its speed.


maybe but we'd best not derail this thread too much with Marine talk.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/17 09:29:28


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
 
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