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I think it is about high time we got this thread, so we can keep the AT Projects thread clean and to its intensions.


So i guess i will begin.
Seeing as i am doing a return to the hobby after a serious burnout, i tought i would start with the Ventator maniple as Blackshields(cuz i cant paint 5 models the same style), as my "learn the game maniple" and add other titans as reinforcments for the bigger points battles.
I tought about axiom but i would have no idea how to use 2 Reavers.

As for loadouts i was thinking this so far:

Reaver: Turbo laser destructor+Melta+Gatling.
Warhound: nr1; 2x megabolter, nr2; megabolter+plasma, nr3; megabolter+plasma, nr4; 2x laser.

Now, traits/strats/wargear. last time i was in this hobby, there was only a few of them and i got only to play a demo game, so i am little overwhelmed by the selection now, but i think i have found some selections from the ryza book that might suit me:

Legio trait: motive mastery, path to ascension.
Strategem: marked pray, blistering march, eye for an eye, scouting run.
Wargear: ranging auspexes(usefull for the learning stages), hunting motives.

Any comments and feedback on this from you experienced players? (possibly other recomendations for a beginner?)

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Venator is a solid maniple, especially on a board that has enough terrain to keep your leading Reaver safe from concentrated fire early on as you take positions. Your list looks good.

The Melta cannon is an A-ok pick for it as it won't overheat like the other high strength gun, Volcano Cannon. While I usually prefer to take missiles on top so that it can contribute to any popped shield even while out of LoS (doubly so if you use missile upgrades like Krytos' Earthbreakers or custom list tools like Fusion missiles) or work more reliably through shields on its own, the Turbolaser is also a good all-rounder for the opportunity attacks should they happen out of its Front Arc.

Now with Venator, your opponent knows the Reaver is a key part of your plan and will try to get rid of it if you present any easy opportunites. I've usually countered this by throwing the Hounds aggressively against the enemy line so that they MUST be dealt with quickly or they will rip stuff apart on their own, which can then be further synergized with by using legio rules like Tempestus' who can get extra shots off as they die so your pressure on the enemy doesn't fall as quickly (and can get even more opportunistic Melta shots off ). This can give you some space to hang around in the midfield with your Reaver, happily blasting away.

The most dangerous Hound is the bolter + plasma variant, it's quick, can hurt anything and contributes greatly to your efforts. However, that singular twin-laser engine you have there is also something I've had reasonable success with when it can sit at the extreme range and snipe down any remaining shields to let the Reaver do the heavy lifting. If you're using full (optional) rules, using Power Transfer to take Draining from shields instead of the reactor is a safe-ish option for this long range support unit when it's not going to be under fire that turn and ensures you aren't burning yourself on accident when pushing for Shieldbane.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/19 09:36:07


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Yea i was in doubt about the 2x laser hound but i honestly did not know what else to bring.
The only other options i can see is either a 3rd megabolter/plasma (nothing wrong with that realy, but could be a bit boring) or perhaps 2x plasma, but the issue with that is i have to be So fast with it else i fear it might get shot down before it gets in range since it would be a prioity kill based on the huge amount of dmg it in theory can do.

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Agreed with the Venator, but for some matches you may want to go with the Ferrox maniple instead.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
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SamusDrake wrote:
Agreed with the Venator, but for some matches you may want to go with the Ferrox maniple instead.


Dont realy know how kit out and use the Reavers for that maniple.......

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Ferrox is an excellent maniple as well, it's my usual go-to for possible melee shenanigans. Its bonus is also applicable to all titans, so you can swap in a Warlord with a fist for hitting on 1+

Nice thing about the Ferrox is that it gives the Reavers a +1 Armour roll modifier they usually don't get without odd squadroning tricks but it doesn't require them to go for melee if you don't wish to. I've been running two maniples with midrange / melee tools, rushing the opposing line with melee engines that give them a scare and setting up danger close shots for the end game with the rest.

An example list for smaller games could be something like this:

-1x Reaver: powerfist, chainfist, apocalypse missiles. 300
-2x Warhound: megabolter, plasma blastgun. 440

-1x Reaver: gatling, melta, apocalypse missiles. 310
-2x Warhound: megabolter, plasma blastgun. 440

That's two maniples (and thus two Seniores for more traits and better Command values) and six engines in 1500, giving you plenty of choice to go for lots of activations or squadroning the Hounds for safer approach under shared shields to unleash punishing Coordinated Strikes when they get close. The melee Reaver could also swap the missiles for a turbolaser with the remaining 10 points or your legio might take some upgrades, who knows. If you enjoy living on the edge like me, swapping some Warhound arms for twin inferno cannons is also a spicy choice for a no-chill assault

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Intrsting, but that would be for when i actualy can play the game.
For now i will go with the Venator as my learning the game maniple.

Thanks for all help.

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Pretty much what Sherrypie said!

Good luck with the game and hope you enjoy it.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
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So while i wait for more hounds, i desided to get a Warlord, mainly cuz i should have atleast one in my collection.
My supplyer only had the powerclaw/sunfury version so how is it? how is it best used, and can it work as a reinfocment or must it be part of a maniple?

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Warlords are just like any other titans, some maniples have them and others don't. Any models can be used as reinforcements.

There are multiple ways to arm and use your Warlords, often according to their role as long range support, midfield brawlers or aggressive linebreakers.

If you only have the laser blaster / sunfury / claw setup, you want to push into the midboard where you can kill things with your high strength guns and deny ground by threatening anyone from wandering too close else they get fisted to death. You want someone else to strip the shields first, though, so pairing them up with dakka-Hounds or melta / gatling / missile Reavers might help. For smaller games, you might also consider the Mandatum maniple of one Warlord + 2-4 Warhounds, where the Hounds get bonuses to hit things that are within 12" of the advancing Warlord as well as more reliable commands.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/01 12:55:01


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Yea, i only have what is in the box. Aslong as i know it has a use, im happy.
Should i get some of the carpace weps from FW? seems they might fit the mid range job better..

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Six lasers still hurt, no doubt, but they are pricy in points and inaccurate over 16" while unable to target smaller things entirely if within 10".

You can never go wrong with Apocalypse missiles that are cheap and cheerful while being able to shoot to the table next to yours, but the king of midfield dakka does come from the carapace gatlings. 12 shots rip shields and with S5 Ordnance are quite capable of hurting things you've softened up with your plasma gun.

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What are the new maniples in the latest book?
my dealer is out of stock for some time........

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Ignis combines Warhounds and Cerastus Acherons for barbeque parties by giving flamer weapons an extra die and ability to reroll Armour rolls of 1. Knights that are close to titans can also benefit from their First Fire and Full Stride orders without rolling for themselves.

Preceptor combines all existing titan types and allows you to choose one Order type every turn to succeed on a 2+ ignoring modifiers, so focused action through the line.

Squadroned Ignis forces sounds fun for swift burnination parties when I get the Acherons painted, especially on dangerous environments that might further increase their flamers' effects or alternatively in environments that reduce visibility and allow them to close safely.

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 Sherrypie wrote:
Ignis combines Warhounds and Cerastus Acherons for barbeque parties by giving flamer weapons an extra die and ability to reroll Armour rolls of 1. Knights that are close to titans can also benefit from their First Fire and Full Stride orders without rolling for themselves.

Preceptor combines all existing titan types and allows you to choose one Order type every turn to succeed on a 2+ ignoring modifiers, so focused action through the line.

Squadroned Ignis forces sounds fun for swift burnination parties when I get the Acherons painted, especially on dangerous environments that might further increase their flamers' effects or alternatively in environments that reduce visibility and allow them to close safely.


Sounds allso like a greate maniple for more "storytelling" battlereports.

What is the setup of Preceptor? (demi and full)


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Correcting myself, it was actually Precept maniple. Anyhoo, it's made up from:

1 Warlord, 1 Warbringer, 1-2 Warhounds and 0-1 Reaver

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How do you assemble the reaver powerfist fingers open thumb section?

i dont have the assembly booklet anymore and the parts makes no sence.

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OMG that thumb was a pain in the ass.

Did you get there in the end?

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
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Its on there, if its right or not that is another thing, but it looks correct (at an angle).

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Cool beans. I have the instructions somewhere should the need arise again.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
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I'm looking for a bit of advice from AT veterans on how to compose my forces. I'm looking to create two interesting opposing forces

I'm 3d printing the miniatures I'll be using for AT, and I have several files already. I have a wonderful set of Warlord files, which will take...a while, but will look extremely nice so I would definitely make a couple of those.

I have several different armor and head designs as well as all the weapons for Warhound titans

And I have very nice files for all Knights save for the new Poryphion, which I'm not super interested in anyway because I've heard it's a bit OP. This includes Styrix and Megaera knights.

What I have not been able to find is any kind of a good file for a Reaver titan. While i'm not like...religiously opposed to paying full price for the GW kit for a Reaver, I'm wondering how vital the Reaver titan is to the game experience. The only thing that really saddens me is that the Reaver seems like a good candidate for a melee titan, as Warhounds don't have melee weapons and Warlords seem like melee is a huge commitment/gamble of your one big boi. That leaves melee pretty much solely the purview of Knights and Cerastus knights. Will that lead to more boring games? Is bringing the big claw on the warlord titan less of a dumb gamble than it seems?

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
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zero ingame expeirence, but i can say this: 1 reaver in your collection is a must.

While the warlord powerclaw desimates anything if it hits, it takes time to get there. Chainfist+powerclaw reaver can get in faster and do enugh hurt to the point where the warlord or shooting reaver dont want you anywhere near it.

If we compare the stats if i understand them correctly; Warlord only has access to powerclaw and you only want one of it due to the concussive trait that can, if the dices rolls bad, knock the titan out of mele reach.
So that would be S12, 3 dices.

Reaver has 2 different meleweps; powerfist(same as powerclaw just weaker) and chainfist with the rending trait(some sort of bonus dmg i think)
So that would be S9 2 dices + S8 3 dices, OR S8 6 dices if you usedouble chainfist.


The odds of getting dmg in mele is bigger with a double first reaver then a warlord, but the warlord hurts more if it hits.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/18 17:05:47


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No single class is required for a satisfying game. All Warhounds, all Warlords, all Knights, all armies can work and be fun if often easier to counter than varied forces.

Reavers are the primary melee titans in the game, with some actual staying power on the way in and enough speed that they can reliably connect in time to contribute and punch people to death. If you want to go melee, you want Reavers that don't get instantly vaporized like Knights do when faced with some actual guns.

All titans can however contribute with occasional Charges and such, because you don't need dedicated melee weapons to be able to crump some face. Smash attacks can occasionally offer a surprise to unwary opponents, especially after a punishing salvo last turn has crippled a target that then gets shoulder-bashed to bits.

A melee Warlord (with one claw, it's killy enough you never need the other unless you're intentionally shooting yourself in the foot for style reasons) can do wonders and I've ripped and torn quite a few engines apart with mine. It does need support or dedication to work properly, though, because it is very slow if you aren't concentrating on one thing at a time. It provides a nasty counterpunch to anyone running too deep in your lines and denies area around it on the field while being relatively cheap, but is a big opportunity cost of not shooting another big gun all day if you don't focus on using it. Keep in mind that its value can fluctuate wildly depending on your mission, in closer deployments or wackier scenarios it can be an absolute MVP if it can get into grips with the enemy from the get-go. Several synergies can also make it rather viable, like Astorum's extra speed on turns 1-2, Traitors' extra speed stratagem War Lust, 2d6" warp magic teleport shenanigans in the Combat Phase for surprise fisting and many more.

As with everything in this game, it depends heavily on the rest of your list, your tactics on the field and the scenario being played.

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Well, I'm magnetizing everything already and I do have a file for the warlord powerfist, so I suppose it just costs me the time to paint it and the resin it's printed with, which will be approximately 2$ if I make it hollow.

I guess if games feel like just shooting galleries I can always just bite the bullet and buy a reaver in plastic. So far all I have is 1 warhound fully magnetized and assembled and 2 cerastus knights fully magnetized and assembled, and I'm trying to finagle a layout where I can print 2 mechanicum questoris at once. Havent even gotten into the probably 4 or 5 print runs itll take to get together a warlord.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





the_scotsman wrote:
And I have very nice files for all Knights save for the new Poryphion, which I'm not super interested in anyway because I've heard it's a bit OP.


Since the last FAQ, thankfully not.

That FAQ bought their points and banner size back into balance. They also lost their coordinated strike order, as they can no longer be taken as part of a lance.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in fi
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the_scotsman wrote:Well, I'm magnetizing everything already and I do have a file for the warlord powerfist, so I suppose it just costs me the time to paint it and the resin it's printed with, which will be approximately 2$ if I make it hollow.

I guess if games feel like just shooting galleries I can always just bite the bullet and buy a reaver in plastic. So far all I have is 1 warhound fully magnetized and assembled and 2 cerastus knights fully magnetized and assembled, and I'm trying to finagle a layout where I can print 2 mechanicum questoris at once. Havent even gotten into the probably 4 or 5 print runs itll take to get together a warlord.


Shooting galleries are fixed by scenario objectives that require maneuver and using terrain to force it, so that's easy.

SamusDrake wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
And I have very nice files for all Knights save for the new Poryphion, which I'm not super interested in anyway because I've heard it's a bit OP.


Since the last FAQ, thankfully not.

That FAQ bought their points and banner size back into balance. They also lost their coordinated strike order, as they can no longer be taken as part of a lance.


Eh, those were never the important factors. The problem is and still remains that their guns are ridiculous both from the immersive perspective (why are those lascannons somehow turbolasers on steroids, again? Why do their puny missile racks pump out more dakka than megabolters, again?) and mechanicswise (the amount of Blasts to be scattered after the inevitable slew of misses is tedious beyond reason). The way they ought to have been done would have been to accept that their original stats were dumb and then redo them more in line with turbolasers, where the Households' answer to titan killing shooting would be to just bring more of them at lower points costs. They'd still fill the role they have now, abide by the verisimilitude of the rest of the game and actually work within the Lance system.

Now they still outshoot Reavers in a duel until they straight up explode to Critical Hits. That's still dumb swinginess in a game that has a lot of good, dumb swinginess too (like reactor meltdowns).

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 Sherrypie wrote:


Eh, those were never the important factors. The problem is and still remains that their guns are ridiculous both from the immersive perspective (why are those lascannons somehow turbolasers on steroids, again? Why do their puny missile racks pump out more dakka than megabolters, again?) and mechanicswise (the amount of Blasts to be scattered after the inevitable slew of misses is tedious beyond reason). The way they ought to have been done would have been to accept that their original stats were dumb and then redo them more in line with turbolasers, where the Households' answer to titan killing shooting would be to just bring more of them at lower points costs. They'd still fill the role they have now, abide by the verisimilitude of the rest of the game and actually work within the Lance system.

Now they still outshoot Reavers in a duel until they straight up explode to Critical Hits. That's still dumb swinginess in a game that has a lot of good, dumb swinginess too (like reactor meltdowns).


Strongly disagree and for good reason; the low points allowed a player to spam an opponent, unless they took the same amount of Acastus to balance out. That alone broke the game.

In everyone of our match ups as legio vs Household, the Household( with 2 Porphyrions ) would always win, simply because the Household was able to spend those saved points on a supporting warhound, with a bit of juggling on the Questoris loadouts. We even scrapped the blast trait and it made no difference - the Legio was still getting slaughtered. Since the FAQ that Warhound is no longer in the list and as the Legio player I've been winning games, for a change.

And then there was the super low cost of the Asterius - the same price as the Porphyrion! Seriously, how was that not a glaring problem when you can upgrade for free, get +1 damage and to go from 3" to 5" blast radius?

The banner size was insult to injury; Adding an extra two knights saved a further 20 points, further increased their ion saves and could add an additional +2 damage on coordinated strikes. Supposed to be roughly the size of a scout titan but can field the same amount of knights as the smaller, more fragile Cerastus? That felt off...





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, Sherrypie, I forgot to respond regarding the missile racks on the Acastus.

While one is paying the points now, you are correct in that they don't feel right against the other missile racks on the Questoris nor the Reaver and Warlord. For the Porphyrion's Ironstorm, try the following adjustments; remove the rapid trait, reduce the dice by 1. For the Asterius Karacnos...tricky one; remove rending trait, reduce dice by 2, increase strength by 1?

Rapid really belongs to the "gatling" weapons which produce a deluge of bullets, while rending feels more at home with melee weapons. The barrage trait feels right, though.

For the Porphyrion...as an artilary piece I'd probably opt for their cannons being more acurate at long range, and make them less dangerous as the distance is closed. Maybe the Asterius less dangerous at long range as their beam has further to travel and losing energy over distance?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/11/19 10:04:45


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That's not a very strong argument against what I said, though, because the low points cost was mainly an issue because of the ridiculousness of their guns. If their firepower would be a lot weaker, as it should have been from the start, them being a lot cheaper than titans while still being the most expensive knights would be absolutely fine. They can still die to singular shots, which doesn't feel that appropriate for the flow of the game when they start pushing 200 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the Asterius, you're a bit off base in that conversion weapons increase their effect over distance with handwavy scifi by converting mass into energy instead of decreasing by attenuation like you'd normally expect from beams.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/19 11:28:27


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 Sherrypie wrote:
That's not a very strong argument against what I said, though, because the low points cost was mainly an issue because of the ridiculousness of their guns. If their firepower would be a lot weaker, as it should have been from the start, them being a lot cheaper than titans while still being the most expensive knights would be absolutely fine. They can still die to singular shots, which doesn't feel that appropriate for the flow of the game when they start pushing 200 points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the Asterius, you're a bit off base in that conversion weapons increase their effect over distance with handwavy scifi by converting mass into energy instead of decreasing by attenuation like you'd normally expect from beams.


I see where you are coming from( nerf the stats until it makes sense ) but the fact is that 110 points doesn't begin to describe a knight that was designed to be comparable to a scout titan, such as the Warhound which ranges between 200 and 240 points. At best it describes a hench Cerastus with dual, improved battlecannons...which should definitely be a thing.

To achieve a one-shot score of 17+ requires the strongest weapons in the game, maybe some legio traits here and there; A reaver's melta cannon for instance. Otherwise, a devastating hit is much more likely to happen. It might be a knight but its still an exceptionally tough one.

If even the stats were nerfed, it would only be along the lines of the cannon strength being brought down to 6 & 7, cannons and beams respectively. Thats still not close to 110 points.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:

On the Asterius, you're a bit off base in that conversion weapons increase their effect over distance with handwavy scifi by converting mass into energy instead of decreasing by attenuation like you'd normally expect from beams.


Okay, we'll scratch that then!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/19 18:15:07


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Longtime Dakkanaut






Right, but the problem there is still not primarily about the points as much as the huge questionmark about why said knight that's almost comparable to a scout titan outshoots battle titans. That's a rules problem, not a points problem, though the two naturally feed off of each other especially in how you could buy singular ones for cheap to pad out your activations.

They are tough and I like them to be such, so that there are also some knights that do not immediately die to bigger guns pointed in their general direction. I do however feel the need to emphasize that it's not that hard to get 17+ hits on them if you know you might be facing such forces (even without tailoring against them). Cheap and cheerful Warhounds in squadrons (especially in Lupercal or Ferrox maniples) can pump out effective Str 10+2 plasma shots all day long, big guys in Extermigus maniples can go higher, Blast weapons can get +1 Str from Macro Charges, plasma weaponry can use +2 Str stratagems like Overcharged Cannon et cetera before we get deeper into the Legio rules. I feel that's currently in a pretty sweet spot in that most hits against Acastii are Devastating and whittle them down with occasional Criticals every now and then, but that feeling is broken by their obnoxious amount of shooting in comparison to the work the titans have to go through to match theirs. Because of their rules they have to be focused on and that can screw the game experience on the field, which is a problem that isn't solely addressable by points.

Lowering their stats would of course require another go at pointing them, but as they are it is a requirement for using them in good conscience and having a good game.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
 
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