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Made in au
Axis & Allies Player




What do youse AT experts think of weapon balance at the moment?

I hear Inferno guns in particular are considered sub-par for the points cost--especially compared to the other much better options on Warhounds like mega-bolters and plasma guns.

Anyway, I had a thought (which doesn't happen often) about a simple way to amp up Inferno guns and make them more worthwhile: How about using a bigger flamer template?

The rules design of the Firestorm-trait weapons in AT was probably constrained by the standardised plastic template that GW has made since 3rd ed 40K. It's a bit small, since it was designed for use against models on 28mm bases rather than the much larger sizes that Titanicus models are on.

However, GW used to make three sizes of flamer template in the mid-90s, back when the templates were cardboard rather than plastic. The biggest one--the heavy flamer--is 3" longer than the current plastic one and half an inch wider at the teardrop end. IIRC the same size of cardboard template was also used in 5th ed Warhammer Fantasy. (It had different artwork and a slightly different design, but was the same size as the 40K heavy flamer.)



Increasing the size of the template in AT would effectively upscale the flamethrower weapons to suit the large base sizes of Titanicus models, making it more likely that you can hit multiple targets at once, as well as adding a bit of extra reach.

You wouldn't need to mess around with points costs, revised rules, custom cards or anything like that. You'd just need one player to dig up an old template from a dusty cupboard so you can both use it instead of the regular one. Besides, fiery artwork looks cooler than blue plastic. (For bonus points, use the reverse side of the WFB template and fry the enemy with green wildfire!)

I don't get to play AT enough to get a good sense of the balance, so I'm just throwing the idea out there in case anyone thinks Inferno guns need a boost and would like to give it a go. I doubt it will make Inferno guns every player's first choice, but it can't hurt.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

Agreed inferno guns need a boost, a house rule I've been workin on is, allow them to fire at nothing to gain a 25% obscured -1 to be hit in the front arc, but it also affects the warhound. Fluff concept is it fires off a bunch of fuel in an arc in front of itself and light it up, the smoke and heat wash reduce the enemies ability to hit the warhound, but it cuts both ways.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

Flamers need better representation at the titanic scale. Less flamethrower and more oil well fire×10.
Maybe a continuous conflagration rule where once hit with the weapon every turn it causes d3 wounds to the body or something like that.

But I'd totally agree they need a different template.
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






How can exactly normal flames hurt titans????
The heat would have to be at a point where it would melt metal to make any sence, but then why not go for plasma or melta weapons instead......

The flamer simply dont have a home in AT, it is an anti infantry weapon..

darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
How can exactly normal flames hurt titans????
The heat would have to be at a point where it would melt metal to make any sence, but then why not go for plasma or melta weapons instead......

The flamer simply dont have a home in AT, it is an anti infantry weapon..


Disagree entirely, the rules don't do them justice but, imagine trying to use any sort of thermal targeting with ur optics bathed in a liquid/jelly that may be able to burn for hours, not to mention if a warhound were to get close and light a whole titan on fire, it would have to disrupt that titans ability to do war and target properly, not to mention, any titan targetting the one on fire is going to see one hell of a show on infrared, aircraft as well as orbital craft as well can easily heat map in IR specturm and see the giant thing on fire. Even aircraft just using direct fire would see big black plumes of smoke coming off them. But even outside of targetting other titans, they'd be great for lighting a bunch of buildings on fire to provide smoke cover for fallback or flanking maneuvers. Not to mention the anti infantry boon to lighting a whole mass of troops on fire even in their trenches. The game just does a really poor job with rules for them, they're a glorified cc weapon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/30 19:39:58


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






Adding a houserule for flamer weapons to set terrain ablaze for obstructing smoke clouds would be rather neat.

I'd mostly go with lowered price, it's okay for the base weapon (which is meant to terrorize small targets) to be less desirable for anti-titan warfare if it's suitably cheap. Currently, not so much. This base can then be improved by specialised focus, like legio and maniple rules, they just need to do it properly hard. Haven't had a chance to field Ignis yet, with added dice it's probably fun yet not entirely enough without some synergistic legio shenanigans as well.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
Made in au
Axis & Allies Player




Lots of great ideas so far.

Racerguy180 wrote:Flamers need better representation at the titanic scale. Less flamethrower and more oil well fire×10.
Maybe a continuous conflagration rule where once hit with the weapon every turn it causes d3 wounds to the body or something like that.


Hmm, something like the old 2nd ed 40K / Necromunda 'set on fire' rules? Except maybe without the frantic running around and friendly Titans lumbering over to help beat out the flames.

FrozenDwarf wrote:
The flamer simply dont have a home in AT, it is an anti infantry weapon..


There are other anti-infantry weapons in AT that I don't really mind being there--mainly on the Knights, like the Avenger gatling thingamajig. For the same reason, I didn't really mind the ridiculous impractical military-grade heavy weapons like lascannons that you could buy in original Necromunda. They might be poor choices in game terms, but they make the world feel more real. After all, we know there are no Epic infantry in those buildings, but the models showing up to fight don't know that...

I would like to see the Inferno gun more useful against Titans, though, because it's a basic Titan weapon option for one of the Classic Trio.

FrozenDwarf wrote:How can exactly normal flames hurt titans????
The heat would have to be at a point where it would melt metal to make any sence, but then why not go for plasma or melta weapons instead......


What about the effect on the crew? I don't think they'd enjoy being baked inside a superheated metal oven.

Old 40K editions also had rules for flamer weapons ignoring cover because they could find their way through the window slits of bunkers and so on.

So... maybe there's some scope for Inferno guns causing critical damage against crew and vital systems? Cooks Princeps and leaves Titans standing.

EDIT: Ooh, maybe it cooks the servitor clades, permanently reducing a Titan's ability to repair itself (fewer dice?)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/01 09:57:11


 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




@flamer: I also rarely see, I think he needs some special buff so that he takes on a special role. It causes heat, maybe if there is at least one hit that is not blocked by shields, the plasma reactor of the target should be increased?

@weapon balance in general: with the Warlord you can usually only find the version with apoc + gyroscopes ... think it needs a nerf here. On the other hand, the claw can hardly be seen on the Warlord.
   
Made in us
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





I’d say just give it voidbreaker (2) but that would make the volkites even more pointless.

The Warlord Claw needs its gun. Maybe as an option?
A more expensive version of the arm but with slightly less armour to represent the delicate meshing of completely disparate mechanisms.

How about:
Integral Weapon (Type): a Melee weapon with this Trait has an integrated ranged option selected from the Types listed below. Any characteristics and traits that apply to the melee weapon do not apply to the integrated weapon and vice versa though they will have a combined armour, damage, and repair rolls, as listed on their card. The integrated weapon has no short range; this is replaced entirely by the melee weapon it is attached to. When selecting a weapon to use, you may only use either the melee profile or the integral weapon profile, not both. Though you can switch modes at different points in the turn, for example if your Titan is on First Fire Orders, it could select the integral weapon to fire in the movement phase then still use the melee weapon in the combat phase.

Integral Bolter:
Range 2-20" | Accuracy - | Dice 6 | Strength 4 | Rapid

(There might be other options too if one wanted to take full advantage, though build-your-own would be a bad plan)

And the card itself would have the normal Arioch claw profile but be 40 Points, with a 10+ Disabled and 10-13 Detonation and 14+ big detonation damage results and a Repair roll of 3+.

Edit: Done

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/01 14:27:25


"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






It is not that the claw is bad, it is just that a sunfury/mori/belicosa has overall more usage.

And if we are going down that path, aint a double fist reaver a better alternative if you are going to take the punchbot route?? (cheaper, nimbler, faster and in total hitting harder then what a warlord claw could ever hope to do..)
Its kinda like that carpace volcan megabolter for the reaver.... what is its point....?

darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

CC on something slow like a warlord seems more defensive than offensive, reaver is def the better route.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






 FrozenDwarf wrote:
It is not that the claw is bad, it is just that a sunfury/mori/belicosa has overall more usage.

And if we are going down that path, aint a double fist reaver a better alternative if you are going to take the punchbot route?? (cheaper, nimbler, faster and in total hitting harder then what a warlord claw could ever hope to do..)
Its kinda like that carpace volcan megabolter for the reaver.... what is its point....?


Ehh. With significantly higher strength, the Claw can more reliably punch criticals in and straight up kill a target in one especially when juiced up with adequate legio and maniple rules support. It's not difficult to have a melee Warlord rocketing through the table to the other side in a bullrush that must be accounted for by the enemy. Been there done that, clawlords are terrifying when they don't diddle about kinda shooting kinda moving but instead leg it from the word go. I wouldn't normally field that many of them, unlike with Reavers where it can actually make sense to have multiples, but still.

Also, what? Megabolters are great for Reavers, if theirs' is an aggressive front line role. It's cheap as chips, to begin with. For melee engines, it gives you a lot of accurate targeted shots after punching the holes in with your fists or alternatively as you advance it makes for great shield stripping for your shootier elements in the second wave.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Hi,

short question about merging shields after the last errata:

Now, the merging titans and the titan who contributes the shield level have to be determined at the beginning of the opponent's activation. But if save rolls are failed: is it nevertheless still allowed to pick which of the Titans' Void Shield levels is reduced and/or split the failed saves between the titans?

The Errata ends with "(...)The attack is then resolved as normal, using the declared Titan’s Void Shield level to make any Save rolls."

Greetings

Alex
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






Yes, failed saves are split as you like just as before. The new ruling mainly prevents jumping in and out of merging to screw the opponent's firing order and means that it's clearer which titan takes heat from Voids to Full!

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




@Sherrypie:

cool, thank you very much; we can play more often again, so there are more questions ... :-) for example:

what is the timing of stratagems or effects that are to be played "at the start of a phase"? Which player must / may decide first and how are they dealt with?

Greetings

Alex
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






The player with the initiative begins each triggered timing stack, ie. if you have the initiative you have the opportunity to play things first. If you don't, the other guy gets the opportunity.

It's like priority in MtG, if that's familiar to you.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




thx, yes, I am familiar with MtG :-)
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Hello everyone, I came across a rule question that I couldn't find an explanation for here:

It's about the stratagem "Outflank" :

It's called "During the second
movement phase the unit can be
activated."

How does it work, do I set up the model at the beginning of the movement phase? but where exactly? Can I also decide to keep the model outside?

also: What do you think of the Stratagem? Given the new missions that require a lot of movement, I don't think it's bad at all ...

greetings
Alex
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






habedekrai37 wrote:
Hello everyone, I came across a rule question that I couldn't find an explanation for here:

It's about the stratagem "Outflank" :

It's called "During the second
movement phase the unit can be
activated."

How does it work, do I set up the model at the beginning of the movement phase? but where exactly? Can I also decide to keep the model outside?

also: What do you think of the Stratagem? Given the new missions that require a lot of movement, I don't think it's bad at all ...

greetings
Alex


As per the rules text:

When using the stratagem, secretly note which neutral table edge you are coming from. On the first round, tell the opponent which side you chose. On the second round, in the Movement phase, you can choose the unit to be activated just like you'd choose any other unit. When you do, set up the units so their bases' Rear touches the chosen table edge (anywhere on that edge). You cannot move any further that turn.

RAW, units cannot pass turns without activations, which means you must arrive on the second turn. This makes it less of an instant loss for the opponent with Hold the Line and such, so waiting much longer would be somewhat bad form.

It's not bad, but it is very costly. You could do a lot with those SP's, but then the effect can be powerful if you suddenly burst in their flanks.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

This matched play scenario me and a buddy came up with has outflank built right in as a core mechanic, it's cheaper but a lot more random, no guarantee of turn 2 arrival (3+ roll), when the unit does arrive the edge is randomized on a d6, 1-2 left, 3-4 right, 5 choice of right or left, 6 choice of any board edge. It keeps things very interesting and you see a lot more need to push reactors to turn to address a new threat that's presented itself. It's also very risky, twice now I've had a reaver arrive very late to the party lol

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/787202.page#11135989


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Thank you again for the quick response.

We have already implemented Engine War 3.0, thank you very much! Especially the terrain rules are great!

In the pictures I saw that you also use the Mechanicum Knights (Questoris and Cerastus), how are your experiences? Theoretically
I don't have any greater use than the original variants, they just look cooler :-)
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

habedekrai37 wrote:
Thank you again for the quick response.

We have already implemented Engine War 3.0, thank you very much! Especially the terrain rules are great!

In the pictures I saw that you also use the Mechanicum Knights (Questoris and Cerastus), how are your experiences? Theoretically
I don't have any greater use than the original variants, they just look cooler :-)


Awesome


The styrix I've only run in one game but they got toasted by a warhound pretty quickly after arriving on the flank. The cerastus knight lancers are pretty good, very fast and hit like a freight train if they can make it into close range but like all knights they often just get gunned down before they can get there. The few times my cerastus have made it into cc range they've done some good damage. The acastus porphyrion is an auto take, best unit in the game.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Hi,

the Universal Titan Wargear: Tracking Gyroscopes from the Loyalist Book only applies to Titans of scale 10 or lower. The Legio Specific Wargear from the Ryza book has no such restriction - not even after Errata 1.2

Does that mean that a Warmaster can also get tracking gyroscopes? Is that on purpose?

Greetings

Alex
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

habedekrai37 wrote:
Hi,

the Universal Titan Wargear: Tracking Gyroscopes from the Loyalist Book only applies to Titans of scale 10 or lower. The Legio Specific Wargear from the Ryza book has no such restriction - not even after Errata 1.2

Does that mean that a Warmaster can also get tracking gyroscopes? Is that on purpose?

Greetings

Alex


Naw I think the warmaster loses out. I think tracking gyroscope was born out of some early mistakes on cards but also a lot of the warlord carapace weapons and the warbringers carapace weapons being able to swivel. The warmaster's carapace is sorta inlaid into he armour.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






habedekrai37 wrote:
Hi,

the Universal Titan Wargear: Tracking Gyroscopes from the Loyalist Book only applies to Titans of scale 10 or lower. The Legio Specific Wargear from the Ryza book has no such restriction - not even after Errata 1.2

Does that mean that a Warmaster can also get tracking gyroscopes? Is that on purpose?

Greetings

Alex


RAW it can, if you make a Custom Legio like that. It probably isn't on purpose, but I wouldn't personally mind it much like that given you might then have an actual reason to take the Gyros as one of your legio traits (yeah yeah it's a bit cheaper as well, still not a power move on a common wargear).

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

So speaking of tactics, the traitor book was quite an update.


I don't want to poop on the parade, there truly are some cool and exciting new upgrades and mutations. But man, there are very little in the way of limits.

The issue in a nutshell is the following. One of the later additions to the game that came with the loyalist book was finally we had universal titan upgrades. And even some loyalist only ones too, I feel like overall this was a good thing, it also took the pressure off custom legios a bit.

Traitor book comes out, traitors get their exclusive upgrades, but they also get mutations.

This is sorta where the potential issues start. Loyalists basically get psi titans, traitors get a bunch of very cool and strong upgrades. But there's not a lot of limitations. For starters, like with most upgrades, the trend tends to be less visual or WYSIWYG. The mutations sorta go along those lines, some are more explicit than others in what they might conjure in one's minds eye or whatever they inspire creatively. One would assume something that can spit acid probably should have something modelled that looks like it can spit acid, but other stuff like shield or movement buffs may prove more abstract in concept or just less obvious how one would visually communicate some ability even in the best of faith attempt.

What I'm getting at is, for every cool chaos corrupted titan conversion we may see, we're also likely to also see a bunch of normal looking traitor titans with less than visual special abilities. Now again, I'm not some purist who thinks we all need to model bastion shields, but we are moving further away from a game that's very visual, a lot of these upgrades and mutations aren't really something we can display on the terminal, there aren't any card decks yet with all the upgrades or mutations to at least help in game terms.


A lot of tournaments or matched play didn't fully embrace custom legios and it was understandable. A lot of people sort of suffer their less than ideal legio rules because they committed to a colour scheme and the thought of using custom legio rules may seem heretical. Custom legios too can be very strong, but it's going to be difficult to say not to them and yes to corrupted titans. Custome legios basically offer traits, stratagems and titan upgrades and you pick 4, never more than 2 from any one catagory, That seems almost quaint compared to being able to corrupt entire maniples or battlegroups.

Some mutations are tied to their base mutation but for the most part there's a lot of freedom, there are downsides like losing leadership value (-1.-2 depending and a different awakened chart, but outside of point cost you're pretty free to take a lot of mutations.

The limit in fact doesn't include the base mutation, it's based on titan scale so warmasters can have 5 total if you include base mutation. They can also have titan upgrades in addition to this.

So ya, without some sort of limiting factor events are likely gonna need to set some kind of limits or have modelling requirements like some sort of conversion. Its difficult to sorta get down to tactics if the builds are going to be so crazy. Psi titans are very strong but I still can't help but feel we're going to see a lot of traitor lists and traitor players fielding mutations on pristine titan hulls. I'm not saying it isn't nuanced either, there effectively isn't a tonne of difference between upgrades and mutations, and I certainly don't want to be the upgrade police, but in a game that is largely visual, where i can look down and see terminals and weapons cards and models with WYSIWYG, the upgrades although great certainly are getting further away from the visual side of things.

So it will be interesting to see what tournaments and matched play events do. I don't think there's any one simple solution and obviously people have to take this stuff out for a spin and see how it plays. I don't fault anyone for proxying essentially just to try this all out, especially for content reasons like a video review or an article. But i guess its like one thing to have a "banelord" in a battlegroup of mostly just traitor titans, but im more concerned with like every traitor titan having a bunch of these upgrades in a list with like zero conversion. If we're testing things out to inform the next battlegroup we're gonna build, one that will have conversions and actually daemonic possesed looking titans, cool. If the game will just be dominated by traitor vs traitor because all loyalist have is a psi titan that may or may bot be allowed. And even if it is allowed, as cool and strong as it is it doesn't exactly seem like the best way to fix things or much of a consolation for loyalist players. That's just how it looks for now.

My only constructive thought is maybe well see the mutations be more like 0-1 of each mutation type per battlegroup, Simply on the reality that if you don't limit players, they'll take a lot of good things. I don't think the more narrative or fluff gamers will have issues navigating this but matched play will have to make some sort of call or limit. I feel like we may see some pressure from loyalist players to allow custom legios, even if it only complicates matters, it being available to both sides. Because things really have changed. Access to universal upgrades, traitor upgrades AND mutations is clearly very strong.There are unquestionably good traits and upgrades in the custom legio rules, but you get 2 traits and like 2 unique upgrades max, some of the corrupted titan examples in the goonhammer review of the traitor book have like 5 things added to them when you combine upgrades and mutatons, 2 upgrades and 3 mutations specifically for the warlord example.

Spoiler:

"Toxin Nodes (20)
Mutations:
Base: Unholy Vigour (25)
Pestilence Cloud (15)
Chitinous Carapace (20)
Preternatural Regeneration (50)
Singular Purpose (15)"


And understand each titan in a traitor battlegroup can go the corrupted route, points cost like with most upgrades don't really correlate to scale, some weapon upgrades do thankfully have variable point costs based on other factors. But anyway, like with titan upgrades, you can really pimp ur titans. I feel like he fun police, I do think it's cool that someone could do a whole like nurgle themed force. But my fear is for every cool concept, we're just going to again see a lot of traitor knights with no conversion. It will get harder to say no to custom legios if no other changes or concession are made. We're all excited to see what's possible, but I'm excited and rightfully scared as one should be of giant evil daemonically possessed titans. I just think it has a lot of ramifications for matched play. Good and bad. And some really cool either way.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the traitor book upgrades or mutations?





Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






Yea well, that is the everlasting debate that arrived since marines got chapter spesific rules in 40k 8th.

Freedom vs restriction. Painting and modeling is freedom but should not limit what rules to use, and when faction spesific rules becomes better then generic rules, conflict arises.
My point is, for loyalists, if you are not a blackshield you should not be allowed custom legio rules. I dont know if traitors uses blackshields but if they do, same goes for them.

As for traitor mutations, i dont know enugh about traitor rules and lore, but i would say for the time beeing, mutations should be allowed for anyone, as there is no "official" mutation addon pack that people can get. 3D printers solves this issue, but not many has access to one. If we one day do get a mutations kit pack from FW, i would then say that mutation rules would only be allowed for the correct visual representation.


On a side note, look at thouse adorable new armiger, i have to get a blister of them in the future, my warlord is kinda lonely and i was thinking some pets might cheer him up.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/17 11:50:08


darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






Custom legios in their current form are no more broken than the named ones. Nor are mutations and upgrades you pay through the nose to get.

This is a game with a handful of models, so pimping them up with bling in exchange for fewer bodies is both cool and a real tactical choice. Meanwhile, paint is not rules and being concerned with that reads to me as rather silly. If memory is a problem, having a written list or some reminder tokens on bases or terminals is an option.

Maneuver still wins games and using mutations severly hampers your reliability in commands. If some standout mutations prove overbearing, nerf them later but let the core system be. If someone wants to get all daemon-infested, that's cool and still entirely counterable.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

I like the fact the the mutations have some negative effects. Very fluffy. Chaos giveth, Chaos also Taketh Away.

In every game I've played it has really been won/lost in either maneuvering or reactor/machine spirit shenanigans.

   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
Yea well, that is the everlasting debate that arrived since marines got chapter spesific rules in 40k 8th.

Freedom vs restriction. Painting and modeling is freedom but should not limit what rules to use, and when faction spesific rules becomes better then generic rules, conflict arises.
My point is, for loyalists, if you are not a blackshield you should not be allowed custom legio rules. I dont know if traitors uses blackshields but if they do, same goes for them.

As for traitor mutations, i dont know enugh about traitor rules and lore, but i would say for the time beeing, mutations should be allowed for anyone, as there is no "official" mutation addon pack that people can get. 3D printers solves this issue, but not many has access to one. If we one day do get a mutations kit pack from FW, i would then say that mutation rules would only be allowed for the correct visual representation.


On a side note, look at thouse adorable new armiger, i have to get a blister of them in the future, my warlord is kinda lonely and i was thinking some pets might cheer him up.



Blackshield is a third faction/allegiance. It's neither loyalist nor traitor but independent, currently just tritonis have rules.

As for mutation being allowed for anyone, they are, that's the thing, any legio can be played loyalist or traitor, and if not modelling requirements are expect, you really can just say "my legio is traitors today".

It's hard to say too what a correct conversion or visual representation would be, you get the vibe that the base mutations are more subtle than the additional ones. I don't even think it nee always be deamonic, like one of the base mutations gives extra dice that only work for venting plasma, so someone could model like a plasma generator on a titan's base and have a cord plugged into it to show it's siphoning off he heat. It's nice when peopel make the effort but hell to enforce without a lotta subjective stuff.


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 Sherrypie wrote:
Custom legios in their current form are no more broken than the named ones. Nor are mutations and upgrades you pay through the nose to get.


Yes, but they also stack is the problem. That really does put traitors ahead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:

This is a game with a handful of models, so pimping them up with bling in exchange for fewer bodies is both cool and a real tactical choice.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sherrypie wrote:
Meanwhile, paint is not rules and being concerned with that reads to me as rather silly. If memory is a problem, having a written list or some reminder tokens on bases or terminals is an option.









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Sure but people in this particular game do have a rather abiding love for their chosen legios, so it's understandable that custom legios ruffled some feathers. And I get it too, there was and is a very real concern that what went from being sorta locked in (you and your opponents legios and respective special rules) went to something that could change in theory almost game to game, and I get that it can seem daunting that it's sorta just "one more thing" to be concerned about. My one buddy who plays tiger eyes very much enjoys their rules so it would be a bit hard to take if I played a different set of custom legio rules every time.

Memory is a problem for me, but that's also what attracted me to titanicus, it was very visual. If I was in charge I'd be making either card decks for the titan upgrades or little reminders that interact with the terminals. The more counters the better too, especially with all the one use only wargear/traits/stratagems.


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Racerguy180 wrote:
I like the fact the the mutations have some negative effects. Very fluffy. Chaos giveth, Chaos also Taketh Away.

In every game I've played it has really been won/lost in either maneuvering or reactor/machine spirit shenanigans.



Ya, it's just that a lot of them can be mitigated with maniple rules.

This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2021/11/18 18:08:52


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