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I want to be up front as to why I’m posting this: I cannot really play 40k right now because those I play with are having a crisis of 40k faith, and it has spread to me. So, I am posting this in order to help reason through said crisis so that we can all play again (and perhaps better contextualize why we are playing it). I want to do this through talking about these hang-ups of ours, which would be best dealt with talking through and exploring the topic with the community. I can use some help with that. In short, I am trying to bring my group back into 40k! So if you have some good points to poke holes in my thinking here, they are more than welcome.

Mostly, my issue right now is that the people I have always played 40k with are thinking of bowing out for good because of what their support of the franchise might mean.
And what I hate is that after thinking about it, I actually do get it.

As far as I can tell from my readings about 40k and fascists/the alt-right/etc. online (of which I have done a fair bit so far), people tend to really dismiss absolutely any validity that these people have for choosing to idolize 40k over other IP’s for all kinds of reasons, which I also totally get because I did for the longest time too, but I think they miss some key points. I think there’s more credit due to the idea that 40k is easily idolized by these forces of hatred than folks seem to give these people. The more I’ve thought about it, the more I fear that 40k might actually have an intrinsic problem that comes with the lore, as-consumed by today’s real-world population.

People say ‘lol 40k is a joke/satire/what have you’. “The Imperium is SO stupidly terrible, that no one should ever take it seriously.” “Obviously everything is horrible and there is nothing to admire here.” But as many will tell you, 40k is actually NOT presented as any sort of joke, not really. It’s ultra serious; rooted in parody perhaps, but is now largely not. The joke was basically that fascists and hatred is terrible, look at how ridiculous their world would be. And while I don’t think the change in tone to seriousness in 40k directly supports the idea that astartes/the Imperium/etc. are NOT terrible in any way, its still leaving things woefully unclear.

So 40k stopped being obviously satirical decades ago, and I personally have always taken the lore extremely seriously (having started during 3rd edition myself), in that, when you think about it, all that is required for it to be very realistic is the assumption that the warp exists. That’s in any case at least one way to look at it being a grounded, realistic sort of universe. There’s lots of other ways to draw very direct comparisons to 40k and the real world but I’d rather not go to off topic with that here. But regardless, I’ve actually always thought that the Imperium was a ‘beautiful creation’ – speaking purely in a narrative, engaging sense. Not that it would be a good place to live – obviously. The immersion of being a part of these terrible people partaking in this terrible universe has been appealing because of how new the problems are, and the sheer terror of what you face and then subsequently overcome together, while being a part of the mess of humanity. And that's fun and interesting as hell. I think all of this while, of course, being quite the opposite of these fascists/alt-right/people-spouting-hatred. In fact, I’ve always been proud of 40k as an IP because of the discussions I knew it could always bring about, partially in regards to humanity being at its worst, what they could accomplish in that state verses what they completely disallowed, just hypothetically. But I’ve also always believed that we cannot afford to leave any quarter for hatred to breed in. And if Warhammer 40k has only growing in that capacity…

I’ve read post after post after post about all of this, and I can’t help but think that most people are missing the mark. There is some reason, I think – blatant reason – why fascists would, and indeed perhaps almost should look to the Imperium as a model of pure strength. And if that’s what matters to them, that’s what matters to them (unfortunately). People are always saying that the Imperium is obviously the worst in every way – dancing around the actual reasons why these people look up to it. In a grimdark galaxy, it stands. It is resolute. Parts of it fall just as parts of it rise, but the Imperium does keep humanity alive. It is our deepest, darkest, worst impulses of governance and otherwise to the point where we’ve almost lost ourselves completely – and yet it works in this universe, and has endured for millennia. Even if you say that this is a story where humanity is overcoming not just the galaxy but also itself (a true and grimdark point to make), I would still give credit to the Imperium. The Imperium is a force to be reckoned with. One potentially sad point to real life fascists…maybe.

BUT (counter-point). The thing that people are trying to say but aren’t giving enough voice to is how there could be something BETTER. Instead of a fascist, dominating Imperium that allows for no voice within its throngs of underlings, there could be a government that works much more collectively, more democratically, or what have you – just like that one democratic hive on Necromunda, Gothrul's Needle (yes, democracy exists in 40k – even if it is still terrible in that hive). So there’s the thing – the Imperium is gloriously messed up but strong, yet if the government was replaced with something much more sensible, it would be so much better. Presumably. The problem is that sort of solution has barely even been vaguely, tertiarily SHOWN as even a possibility to sustain within the lore (for humanity). I get that is potentially a part of the grimdark theme – but there is so much room here for more clarity on the part of the narrative. And I suspect Gulliman’s work may show just how much better the Imperium COULD be. So there is certainly hope.

To clarify what I mean by that – better solutions to evil Empires is displayed better in, for example, Star Wars. In Star Wars, you have the ‘evil Empire’, and a rebellion, a republic, etc. You can see the alternative to the Empire very plainly. You can know the failings of these evil empires very easily, and see a better, more righteous alternative in which others get a say. You do not get that in Warhammer 40k. There is the Imperium. THE solution. Maybe there was some fancy idea of something way better in the Horus Heresy and that’s obviously a tragedy that given all their actions they still couldn’t sustain even a fraction of that vision, but there is some very real argument that because of the Horus Heresy’s failure, and any other government’s failure to have stopped the Imperium, that the message becomes “humanity is at its (at least martially) best when it’s at its worst”. Therein lies the danger, I suspect. That message. That subtext. I fear the Imperium does seem to support this theory, given the lack of any other evidence to the contrary, and the routine triumphs they make. These triumphs are supposedly in spite of the government etc. (given the ‘satire’ of the IP), but what actual proof of that is there? The Imperium is supposed to be ‘the most oppressive regime imaginable’, after all, sayeth the intro quote, so there should theoretically be a better one. Unless the Tau government is somehow supposed to be the example?

Some people might say it would be needless modernization of 40k lore to get Guilliman to really re-arrange things, or split the Imperium in two in some way. Letting the “SJW’s” have their way with things. I don’t care. I think this is necessary going forward, because when you are faced with it, really faced with the realization that supporting Warhammer 40k monetarily (by purchasing its products etc.) or otherwise – might grow a franchise that will only encourage more fascists more than most any other IP…is sort of a disgusting possibility. Again, please disprove me on any of this if you’re able; it’s why I’m here.

We want to deny that, thoroughly – but I fear it’s just the truth. That IS the fact of the matter, I fear, even if it is only to a small degree, which is unfortunately unlike any other IP I’m aware of. And boy is today not a great day and age to be encouraging hatred in.

In any case, this is the rut I currently find myself in, with my thinking. To me, Warhammer 40k has always been so much more than this. It’s glorious, fun, and yes - dark, sure…but only to the point where it enhances the fun. There’s no need to enjoy it at 1,100% sadistic levels like you can bring any franchise, just like you don’t have to enjoy it or see it in any way that encourages hate. It’s creative, it explores various aspects of humanity and in ways we never really see in popular fiction. But the option to see it in a way that encourages hatred is certainly there. I fear it is too easy to see.

So perhaps it’s not truly a question of whether or not Warhammer 40k should encourage these people (I think it shouldn’t for all kinds of reasons – namely that hatred is bad, duh), but the fact of the matter is that it does. And more so than virtually any other IP. Right? If anyone can dissuade me of this thinking or refute any of my specific points, for the love of the God-Emperor please do so, below. For sake of my hobby, and our hobby group.

As I alluded to before, I’ve read a number of articles, threads, etc. on this. This one, saying 40k is a lost cause, I think goes a step too far. 40k certainly isn’t a lost cause, which basically everyone in the comments seems to agree with: https://www.reddit.com/r/Sigmarxism/comments/i50ra7/unpopular_opinion_warhammer_40k_is_a_lost_cause/
There have also been threads about how 40k isn’t ready for the mainstream yet, and it can go a ways before getting there (I agree – i.e. Guilliman, etc.). That’s also echoed in another article where Leakycheese talks out against Arch and his legion (who is also quoted a bit too much in this article):https://www.vice.com/en/article/9358ke/the-warhammer-40k-community-is-trying-to-weed-out-its-far-right-faction" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://www.vice.com/en/article/9358ke/the-warhammer-40k-community-is-trying-to-weed-out-its-far-right-faction It’s articles like this that do give hope to the whole thing, at least.
Ultimately I think what I’m going to land on is what Leakycheese did, as said in that article:

“Leakycheese suggests that a positive step would be a sign posted in every Games Workshop franchise, making clear to all customers that prejudice has no place in the community. Some changes to the lore of 40k would not go amiss, either; there should be greater ethnic diversity in models, he says, and it should be abundantly clear that the Imperium of Man aren’t the “good guys”.
“They need to put the satire back into it,” he says. “The other thing they need to do is stop making Space Marines appear as heroes; people on the alt-right think they are superhuman Übermensch warriors – they [Games Workshop] do stuff around that; it just needs to be brought back to the fore.”

It really is just too dangerous to let the Space Marines, Imperium etc., be marketed as the good guys; no one should get the impression that virtually every marine is good. I’ve always believed that the best thing about 40k is how primarily smaller groups, maybe a planet here and there, a handful of astartes chapters, etc., continue to actually be noble and fight for humanity, in spite of everything. That includes, of course, doing so in spite of the Imperium’s terribleness. That sort of goodness shining through is the real story of 40k, imo. The biggest reason to stick around in and for 40k (not to mention the possibility that humanity just needs to hang on long enough for it to become a fully psychic race, in which everything potentially gets better. That is just brilliant, exciting stuff, courtesy of the Emperor). Conversely, the way people are too easily able to perceive the lore now is upside-down; that these individual good people aren’t the emphasis for marketing, but rather the Imperium and its horrific military presence. They're celebrated because they are powerful and able to overcome xenos etc., and for little other virtue. And that emphasis needs to change, just like Leakycheese said – there needs to be a clearer emphasis on doing what is right in the face of what is wrong.

BUT, I do not want to wait to enjoy 40k until these things happen. I want to be able to more than justify to myself and my friends that there is absolutely no problem with playing, supporting, and buying 40k stuff right now. And to be honest, I’d rather not be doing so purely based on a pure hope that things will improve.

[Spoiler] And there are signs of it. I just recently caught wind of how in one of the latest novels, “Watchers of the Throne: The Regent's Shadow" by Chris Wraight, shows how the High Lords of terra already began a civil war of sorts against Guilliman, before being completely annihilated by Guilliman’s machinations, on account of his understanding of how corrupt and terrible the high lords were. The civil war has already come to 40k…and I for one could not be more relieved. This is the conflict that needs to happen. [/endSpoiler]

So, there are a few questions to think about here, ultimately.

TLDR:
To start with, can you say that 40k lore/the Imperium should not encourage fascists and alt-righters despite how the Imperium’s accomplishments are actually incredibly, and incalculably vast?
If you can’t say 40k shouldn’t encourage fascists and alt-righters, then is it *wrong* to pump money and time into a franchise that still exists in this state?
Finally, if you think it is not wrong to pump money and time into the franchise given this, then is that primarily because of hope for a coming change in the Warhammer lore itself through Guilliman and the IP’s presentation by Games Workshop to change marketing and perception with a better emphasis?

 Netsurfer733 wrote:
Does 40k Effectively Encourage Hatred?

No.

It's just satanic panic come around again, in all of it's infinite finger pointing forms. People need to stop looking for ways to be offended.

You are looking at this from the wrong perspective.

Why do you define the imperium's accomplishments "Incalulably vast"?

Sure, they have an extremely vast empire, but it is founded on reducing your people to little more than gears. That's not exactly what you define as "accomplishment".

Dictatorial countries usually make vast empires, that's normal, that's history.

The lower your common welfare, the higher your military might. That is an accepted rule. There is no accomplishment in this.
An accomplished country/nation/empire/whatever is one that has both external AND internal success.

As it is, the 40k empire is just a scifi version of the Roman empire (which was based on slavery).

No.

I think there are more important issues to get into a tizz about.

sigmarxism. unreal. I would not even think something like this would be possible.

Not sure what an alt right is, but as fasism goes, non of the systems of governance that exist in w40k are fasist, so I can't really imagine how w40k could promote that system specificaly.

I could imagine someone having stron views on an a oligarchic theocracy or a theocratic oligarchy, but other don't system from our world don't exist in w40k, so it shouldn't be a problem.

as the hatred goes. I think it would be a big stretch. And tyranid or an orc is not human. Hating something like that in real world would be like hating locust or a deadly type of fungus. I don't think that hating any of those two is something bad.

I don't have time to read your full post, but yes 40k holds appeal for ethnofascists and anyone disagreeing with this is delusional. And just to be clear, that doesn't mean anyone at GW is supporting an agenda like that, I doubt anyone is.

Do video games lead to violence? Does rock and roll lead to moral degeneracy?

Throw them in the gulag and usher in the utopia brother.

They don't exist, nobody genuinely believes any of that and if they did, they'd be insane like you. This whole phantom group of 40k nazis is just hyperbolic nonsense because it turns out that there are people playing the game who aren't politically left. If I ever meet someone who has missed the sarcasm of the imperium and seriously believes it should be real I'll avoid them.

artific3r wrote:
Do video games lead to violence? Does rock and roll lead to moral degeneracy?

These are really bad analogies. The questions you should be asking are "does joining a violent/fascist/racist/sexist video game community lead to violence/fascism/racism/sexism?" (proven categorically true) and "Does entering a morally degenerate music scene lead to moral degeneracy?"

Rolling dice and painting space marines will never lead to anything except. It's engaging in the communities and subcommunities thereof. Considering there are known gamer->alt-right "funnels" (and also alt-right deprogramming funnels in those same spaces) I think dismissing it as "it's just a game, it can't affect people" is naive at best, sinister at worst.

edit: to further clarify my point, when you have people like Arch Warhammer who is openly anti-leftist/liberal and then, in discord, openly racist, etc, a normal person may start watching his videos to learn about warhammer. As they begin to trust him as a source of knowledge, that trust leads to them slowly (or quickly) buying into the anti-leftist/liberal ideology. Then they join his discord or twitter community or whatever and are inundated with toxic extremist politics/"jokes" and wow, you have a fully toxic alt-right person!

I've met some truly vile people involved in 40k, but this fascist boogeyman that people are riling themselves up about has yet to rear his (or her) head in my experience. At worst I've seen some teenagers who think saying racist words is the most hilarious brand of edgy humour they've heard, but that's about it. I don't think the KKK or whoever are sending recruiters into Games Workshop stores- actually joking aside, extremist groups tend to find the ost recruits at the very poor parts of society (after all, what do they have to lose?) and not the type who have the money to spend on plastic toys.

The whole thing is just a hip new refresh of the Satanic Panic, only instead of Lil Timmy turning to Satanism because he's playing a Tiefling Warlock, he's becoming a Neo-Nazi because he's playing Black Templars or whatever.

Spoletta 794924 11015578 wrote:

The lower your common welfare, the higher your military might. That is an accepted rule. There is no accomplishment in this.
An accomplished country/nation/empire/whatever is one that has both external AND internal success.

That would make the US one of the weakest military in the world, and something like Mozambik a military power house. Plus if you can't keep your people safe, then it is like Mr Rogan said, you ain't farming for yourself in case things go rough, you are farming for your neighbour who has a gun.

Chinas wealther historicaly came, from being able to stop invaders from the north, south and east. Which makes military might the corner stone of their civilisation, and considering they are the only one ancient civilisation that survived till today, saying it ain't an accomplishment just doesn't make sense.

The swiss build their might on quality of their soldiers, and the fact they were able to defend themselfs easier then other countries due to terrain being adventagous for the swiss defenders.

Russia is a power house since the XVIIIth century and the country is litteraly build to fuel expansion. Rome was like that too, the strengh of its army allowed Roman culture, laws and trade to spread. People wanted to be Roman citizents, and all of it because the empire was defended by a strong army. The moment Rome killed of its supply of fresh recruits by promoting great latifudia, they fell apart. And the same happened to the easter empire, when they stopped taking care of anatolians defending them from ur turks and other invaders.

You're first mistake is thinking anyone from Sigmarxism has any sort of point whatsoever.

In 40k's defence, saying 'It's just a game' is valid, because as big as it is, that's all it is.

 BlackoCatto wrote:
You're first mistake is thinking anyone from Sigmarxism has any sort of point whatsoever.

Is the whole Sigmarxism title deliberately tongue in cheek, or do they support a multi-billion pound company producing toys without a shred of irony?

 PaddyMick wrote:
In 40k's defence, saying 'It's just a game' is valid, because as big as it is, that's all it is.

It's also a community, or a collection of communities, and that's the more relevant part.

Rihgu wrote:

artific3r wrote:
Do video games lead to violence? Does rock and roll lead to moral degeneracy?

These are really bad analogies. The questions you should be asking are "does joining a violent/fascist/racist/sexist video game community lead to violence/fascism/racism/sexism?" (proven categorically true) and "Does entering a morally degenerate music scene lead to moral degeneracy?"

Rolling dice and painting space marines will never lead to anything except. It's engaging in the communities and subcommunities thereof. Considering there are known gamer->alt-right "funnels" (and also alt-right deprogramming funnels in those same spaces) I think dismissing it as "it's just a game, it can't affect people" is naive at best, sinister at worst.

edit: to further clarify my point, when you have people like Arch Warhammer who is openly anti-leftist/liberal and then, in discord, openly racist, etc, a normal person may start watching his videos to learn about warhammer. As they begin to trust him as a source of knowledge, that trust leads to them slowly (or quickly) buying into the anti-leftist/liberal ideology. Then they join his discord or twitter community or whatever and are inundated with toxic extremist politics/"jokes" and wow, you have a fully toxic alt-right person!

We've seen this a million times throughout history. It's a pretty boring topic, but I suppose every generation there is always a subset of people out there that thrive on this sort of drama.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
You're first mistake is thinking anyone from Sigmarxism has any sort of point whatsoever.

Is the whole Sigmarxism title deliberately tongue in cheek, or do they support a multi-billion pound company producing toys without a shred of irony?

the whole thing is a meme, its a shitpost subreddit just like grimdank.

If people who hold fascist or otherwise deplorable viewpoints idolise certain elements of 40k's background the problem is not with the background. I don't know why people have a hard time understanding this, but the problem is with the fascists. Y'know, because they're fascists.

Simply put, no. I've enjoyed the hobby for over thirty years and have not encountered what you consider to be issues. Crappy people existed prior to 40K and there will be crappy people after 40K is gone.

I don't know maybe it is because of the place I live in, but I can't have a laugh at anything with national socialist or marxist it name. It just isn't funny. Maybe it is funny from a continent away.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
You're first mistake is thinking anyone from Sigmarxism has any sort of point whatsoever.

Is the whole Sigmarxism title deliberately tongue in cheek, or do they support a multi-billion pound company producing toys without a shred of irony?

the whole thing is a meme, its a shitpost subreddit just like grimdank.

Grimdank makes good memes, the other does not.

 BlackoCatto wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
You're first mistake is thinking anyone from Sigmarxism has any sort of point whatsoever.

Is the whole Sigmarxism title deliberately tongue in cheek, or do they support a multi-billion pound company producing toys without a shred of irony?

the whole thing is a meme, its a shitpost subreddit just like grimdank.

Grimdank makes memes, the other does not.

i just went and double checked and the frontpage is all shitpost memes....?

Look at it again.

I read the whole OP. In part, I agree with it. I wouldn't want 40Ks background to change though, but I also would like the Imperium to be shown more often as the fascist dictatorship it really is. Chaos has become as strong as it is because of the Imperium, not despite it. And I would like 40K/ GW to emphasize that.

Karol wrote:Not sure what an alt right is, but as fasism goes, non of the systems of governance that exist in w40k are fasist, so I can't really imagine how w40k could promote that system specificaly..

The Imperium is a fascist system, without a shadow of a doubt - and aesthetically, fills a similar niche. The iconography, the central leader figure, the high militarisation, the emphasis on racial purity - all features many modern ethnofascists find appealing. And it's not hard for them to imagine that 40k is validating their beliefs - they're wrong, of course, but good luck telling them that.

as the hatred goes. I think it would be a big stretch. And tyranid or an orc is not human. Hating something like that in real world would be like hating locust or a deadly type of fungus. I don't think that hating any of those two is something bad.

The problem is when bigots *do* extend aliens and heretics to real world peoples, which happens. Tau, especially, are commonly compared in ethnofascist circles to communism/socialism or East Asians - and the latter leads to racist rhetoric.

Yes, *rationally* there's no way someone should be comparing a 40k race to a real ethnicity of humans on Earth, much less inciting hatred, but since when were racists and fascists rational?

Void__Dragon wrote:I don't have time to read your full post, but yes 40k holds appeal for ethnofascists and anyone disagreeing with this is delusional. And just to be clear, that doesn't mean anyone at GW is supporting an agenda like that, I doubt anyone is.

Yeah, sorry, but for everyone saying "there's no Nazi problem", you are unfortunately naïve in this. (not you Void__Dragon, I'm agreeing with you!)

Is it 40k that's making them ethnofascists and suchlike? Of course not. These people had scummy beliefs regardless of 40k. But 40k provides a place for them to spread those beliefs, to justify and normalise them through fiction, to have rallying symbols and things to compare to.
Are GW to blame for that? Not in creating 40k, no, and they've done a *decent* job of disavowing certain extremely bigoted 40k figures (Arch), but I feel they could do more - a whole lot more, by being more vocal and proactive about support for hobbyists that are usually targeted by said bigots (women and trans hobbyists, different ethnicities, sexual orientation, and generally opposing nationalist/fascist beliefs). Double down on their "you will not be missed" statement, etc etc.

But yes - while I don't feel GW are actively to blame, or deliberately foster hatred, there is a sizeable portion of 40k hobbyists who *do* foster hatred and bigoted beliefs, and you are either very fortunate, or ignorant, to have not seen it.

 Arbitrator wrote:
I've met some truly vile people involved in 40k, but this fascist boogeyman that people are riling themselves up about has yet to rear his (or her) head in my experience. At worst I've seen some teenagers who think saying racist words is the most hilarious brand of edgy humour they've heard, but that's about it. I don't think the KKK or whoever are sending recruiters into Games Workshop stores- actually joking aside, extremist groups tend to find the ost recruits at the very poor parts of society (after all, what do they have to lose?) and not the type who have the money to spend on plastic toys.

The whole thing is just a hip new refresh of the Satanic Panic, only instead of Lil Timmy turning to Satanism because he's playing a Tiefling Warlock, he's becoming a Neo-Nazi because he's playing Black Templars or whatever.

This is largely my opinion, to the op, in my opinion? No, this is completely anecdotal but I'm the only black guy in my store, everyone else is white, things have been great for me. Ironically the only time my mates realised this is when a discussion like this came up and they actually thought about it. Honestly op, as many people have said there are crappy people, people who make stupid jokes. This is more or less like the satanic scare. At least in my view.

Slipspace wrote:
If people who hold fascist or otherwise deplorable viewpoints idolise certain elements of 40k's background the problem is not with the background. I don't know why people have a hard time understanding this, but the problem is with the fascists. Y'know, because they're fascists.

Agreed, but we have to be aware that those fascists believe that the background supports their beliefs. Obviously, it was not intended to, and so I don't believe that 40k "encourages" hatred, but can it be used to support it? To a fascist, yes.

So, as much as we can all sit around and say "only a madman would think 40k supports fascism", that still leaves us with the madmen in our hobby. I'd like if GW spent more effort rooting them out. Make them uncomfortable, make them know that this isn't a place for them. Call them out vocally.

 Irkjoe wrote:
Throw them in the gulag and usher in the utopia brother.

They don't exist, nobody genuinely believes any of that and if they did, they'd be insane like you. This whole phantom group of 40k nazis is just hyperbolic nonsense because it turns out that there are people playing the game who aren't politically left. If I ever meet someone who has missed the sarcasm of the imperium and seriously believes it should be real I'll avoid them.

100%. I have never, ever, read or met anything or anyone that was in any way a "Fash" or a Nazi. Not even close. I am not saying my experience trumps all. But taking into account I have almost never heard of this problem until recent times. I do not wish to be rude to the original poster, but this may sound rude no matter how I edit it.

People who play 40k have very different ideals and you are going to have to get used to right leaning folks playing this game. Because there are a good amount of them. The great irony is, de-platforming is one of the tried and true go to tactics of a fascist's. Now, apart from this I will answer your post in the spirit it was made in.

No, I do not see a problem. A fictional universe in a toy soldier game does not give me pause in the slightest. And If it is giving you pause. Quit. Because you have far bigger problems you need to be focusing on (we all do). First world issues.


EDIT : I have thought further on this. And I do see a point in the fact the imperium has been softcon'd into a heroic force. I mean read any 40k literature. I reads like a germanic saga. This has been happening for a long time. And while I still stand by what Ive said above, I do see a problem with this. Probably not the same problem as the OP. Because the Imperium being Heroic is idiotic.

And while I am fully against censorship, I think GW should put more warnings on products that are being sold to children. It is the parents job to restrict access to damaging idea's. Not GWs. They just need a warning on every piece of literature.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I read the whole OP. In part, I agree with it. I wouldn't want 40Ks background to change though, but I also would like the Imperium to be shown more often as the fascist dictatorship it really is. Chaos has become as strong as it is because of the Imperium, not despite it. And I would like 40K/ GW to emphasize that.

Yeah, no issue having the Imperium *be* the bad guy, but make that crystal clear. Make it clear that they're not essential, that what they do isn't just "survival", that for all their propaganda, they are still undisputedly evil.

Will next they deal with the Communists I assume? Only fair to thing to do. Take out two groups of mad delusional idiots with one stone, only fair thing to do.

None of it matters and to be frank I'm new to the forum and I at least know that a thread like this is pushing some sort of rule here.