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Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






How do?

Afraid I’ve been spelunking down the ole eBay Stuff Mine again.

Last year, I went on a mission to acquire every Rogue Trader era book. Managed it, with the original Chapter Approved being at once the most expensive, and least impressive of the bunch. Even roped in a Canadian member of the Loot Group to secure the Orky books at a reasonable price (seller wouldn’t post international, but even with two lots of postage I got them for less than U.K. based sellers).

This year? It’s high time I fixed my Epic Space Marine itch. It’s an awesome system, and one I reckon I can get others playing (for infantry, a friend is willing and able to design our own infantry. Tanks and that aren’t too expensive as long as we’re not fussy about specific eras of the models. Barring the Epic 40K Eldar, which were inexplicably ugly models)

To start with, I’ve just bagged complete sets of Armies of the Imperium and Ork & Squat Warlords (the latter I never had as a kid).

Tokens and that aside, that leaves me with just Renegades, Hive War and the core rule books to get. Oh, and Titan Legions, I suppose.

For me, this is an exercise in nostalgia, reassembling the rules for the games I loved as a kid. And with an eye to actually playing, it seems sensible to track down the expansions with the various army cards.

Anyone else fond of the older rules? I’d love to hear your reasons and motivations, whatever they might be! This goes for any and all TTWG, not just GW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/31 18:00:00


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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Quite fond of the 3rd edition rules for Craftworlds. The Ulthwe council and Black Guardians were very awesome indeed.

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in ie
Dakka Veteran




Ireland

Big fan of the simplicity of 3rd edition 40k with just the lists from the core rule book, same for 6th edition WFB with just Ravening Hordes.

Less about gimmicks, and big flashy new models and more about grunts, and players making good choices on the table and not list building.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/31 22:58:06


The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused. 
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






London

Been playing since 4th, I do miss how customisable your guys were back then. Not just standard weapon upgrades but also basic wargear such as Bionics (6+ FNP) or Purity Seals, etc. Means you can really make "your guys" without having to just go for the same Relics.

   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant




San Jose, CA

RT, epic space marine & AT are the only old stuff I'm keen on.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






I too am a fan/collector of old editions of GW stuff.

Don't know about the rules vs 40k today (because I don't recall much about them, other than there were proper vehicle damage rules) but I love 40k 2nd edition as a whole. Although looking at it, it was a very "cardy" game. But looking at it all it just seems more complete, despite some factions that are now present not being so back then. Until a forced house move back in the early 2000s (where a lot of my stuff ended up in landfill), I did have a complete set of 2nd edition 40k, I'd love to get it all again but I'm not sure I'd play it, enough or at all, to justify buying it all again...

I have and love Warhammer Quest 1995, although I only have the starter box set contents and some alternative models for adventurers. The rules do seem a little iffy/broken at times, but it's just a better setting imho than current WHQ titles.

Ditto Necromunda, I have the 2003 rulebook (deemed to be 2nd edition) and an OG set of the cardstock terrain (need/want more!). Great aesthetic and the rules are pretty decent also. Although I've not played current Necromunda so I can't compare the rules but with a little conversion (to represent weapons) the current models fit right into old Necromunda, as I have done with the Van Saar and Cawdor box sets (although I need to finish painting my Cawdor gang)

I also have 3rd edition Bloodbowl and the Deathzone supplement (I got bought those back in 1994!!), although I only have the starter set teams - difficult to put any effort into Bloodbowl when you aren't part of a club (or your "friends" aren't into tabletop gaming). Although if I were into collecting the models I would probably replace the starter set teams with some new models, or perhaps even just strip and repaint the originals.

Have had an urge to try to source the old 2nd edition polystyrene pitch for Blood Bowl, just because, but apparently the square sizes aren't the same as 3rd edition's pitch, so it wouldn't be compatible.

Last year I bought the pdf version (and then printed and bound it myself) of 1st edition Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (now published by Cubicle7). Just because - my "gaming buddy" had it "back in the day" and I loved reading the books. Don't have a big enough "gaming group" to play it as I'm not part of a club and only have 1 friend (my "gaming buddy") who plays such stuff. But it's great for nostalgia and background. I may in the future buy some of the 1st edition campaign books as PDFs from Cubicle 7.

I also have Space Hulk, although my copy's 4th edition. so not sure that counts, but Space Hulk hasn't changed much since 1st edition. Would love to get one or two copies of the original 1st edition board sections, if only so that I have them to enable 1st edition missions/campaigns from WD to be played, as "the community" have updated them to 3rd/4th edition. Although again, as with 40k 2nd, it's a matter of whether or not the investment would be worth it...


I'm also currently getting into Battlefleet Gothic, apparently it's the best game GW ever made...



I'm just more of a fan of the stuff GW did during the late 80s, 90s and very early 2000's than I am of their current stuff - it was far more colourful, far more inspiring, far more engaging, far less simplified and cookie cutter, and more a hobby than a self hyped so-called "premium product".

Although strangely I've never really been a fan of actually playing Warhammer Fantasy Battle. A little too complex for me and just too many models required no matter what edition you get into. Although I do have a recurring urge, probably due to playing Total War Warhammer (1 and 2), to put together a small Empire army from miniatures still available from GW - must have steam tank!!

This message was edited 16 times. Last update was at 2021/02/01 04:39:11


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I've been on an old hammer collecting streak after finding stuff at various charity shops.
Collecting as many old books as I can and rules.

Outside of Crusade, 9th just doesn't "do it" for me.

As other say, in some editions you really could make them "your guys" rather than cookie cutters.

9th Crusade kind of returns some of that and you care about your units which changes the dynamics of game play.


Consummate 8th Edition Hater.  
   
Made in eg
[MOD]
Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

First off congratulations on your RT quest, even I don't have the ork books!

I'm a huge fan of RT fluff, but I consider the game itself to be damn near unplayable.

3rd and 4th had about the right level of granularity for my taste. A bolter is a bolter, is a bolter, and a lasgun is an autogun is a crossbow. Tanks had more specific rules but that was ok because there were just a few on the table.

I also have fond memories of Epic, but that's in part because we played all the time in my dorm. If I had to look at the ork bubble chucker rules now I'm sure I'd have a different judgement.

If anyone hasn't seen them, here are some of my trips back down memory lane.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Kid_Kyoto_Retro_Review_Index

 
   
Made in de
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Nuremberg

All the old editions have their charms.
2e was really wacky and had a smaller game size that meant it was pretty accessible. I really enjoyed learning the game back then, and I think the 2e Codex Imperialis and Wargear books are probably my favourite 40k books ever.

Same was true of 5e Fantasy, a wacky game with super heroes carving up regiments, but a smaller game size along with that and really cool books in the starter.

3e and 6e both simplified the game and balanced it, opening it up in a way by providing lists in the starter box. The model quality increased in this time and I really enjoyed the core rules. Sadly, the codex release schedule got a bit out of hand back then, with some factions getting multiple releases while others languished. I loved the 6e Starter for Fantasy too.

4e and 7e... I was more fond of 7e Fantasy, to be honest. I think this is mostly because I spent almost the entire edition waiting for my Ork boyz to be updated while watching the game bloat out with other factions. I think in other ways 4e was an improvement on 3e, but it suffered from not being a full update like 3e was and not bothering with having updated lists in the rulebook. 7e started off really well and became my main game for a while, but eventually went way off the rails due to poorly written army books. It had a fantastic starter though, made the guts of two full armies for me that I still get use out of.

I reckon 5e is the best core rules edition of 40K ever and I really enjoyed playing at that time. It got a bit wonky at the end with the fliers and big stuff starting to creep in, but overall it is probably my favourite edition of 40k. If it had had reset lists again, it would be hands down, but I really love the 3e BBB lists.
I also think 5e is one of the best starters they ever released. Loads of boyz, nobs, deffkoptas, and a solid force of Marines.

On the other hand, although 8e Fantasy had a wonderful rulebook and starter set, but it really killed the game for me. Game size increased too much, magic became too significant, and the game lost it's charm to me. Then they ended the Old World, which is a shame.

6e 40K killed my interest in the game and it hasn't recovered. So my interest in GW games kinda collapsed for both games around the same time.

As to specialist games, I think nothing will ever top original Necromunda and Mordheim for that flavourful gang warfare fun, and Battlefleet Gothic is one of the best things GW have ever produced, I am amazed they don't ever want to bring it back. Too many metal models or something?

TL, DR: 5e 40K and 6e Fantasy are my happy place.

   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
First off congratulations on your RT quest, even I don't have the ork books!

I'm a huge fan of RT fluff, but I consider the game itself to be damn near unplayable.

3rd and 4th had about the right level of granularity for my taste. A bolter is a bolter, is a bolter, and a lasgun is an autogun is a crossbow. Tanks had more specific rules but that was ok because there were just a few on the table.

I also have fond memories of Epic, but that's in part because we played all the time in my dorm. If I had to look at the ork bubble chucker rules now I'm sure I'd have a different judgement.

If anyone hasn't seen them, here are some of my trips back down memory lane.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Kid_Kyoto_Retro_Review_Index


I find that reading the RT era books in order is an awesome exercise in understanding 40K then and now.

It’s easy for peeps to not know or to have forgotten that the level of success kinda surprised GW. This meant over its five or six year or so life span, it went under various iterations (for instance, playing just with Rogue Trader, and playing with the Vehicle Manual are basically two distinct experiences).

Yet it was also a period of frankly insane creativity. Things got more and more codified. Some stuff fell by the wayside, and have returned in altered forms over the decades. Others just aren’t there anymore (Illuminati, Starchild etc). The great joy of course being that they’re not actively denied or removed, so can still be treated about as canon as the rest of 40K. What is remarkable for me is just how little the Orks have changed. Other than Nobz and that being physically larger models, everything else has largely stayed the same.

I do think it’s a shame other races didn’t get the same treatment as Orks did, but again that’s an indicator of just how chaotic and mental 40k’s growth was.

2nd Ed was definitely required. It didn’t massively change the size of games as a purpose, but it made them easier to handle. The rules (comparatively) were neater, and easier to follow. And with greater resources pumped in (more plastic kits, more vehicles), players armies expanded, and bigger games were played.

3rd Ed? Yes it was a smoother system, but from me it threw baby out with the bath water. Like someone looking to lose a few pounds going all cross fit mental and no longer coming down the pub for a laugh.

Maybe it’s a pure grognard thing, but as someone who is familiar with the early days (even if I missed them, starting as I did with 2nd Ed), many of the comments about constant FAQ and Errata? To me they’re simply par for the course. It’s always been that way with 40K, as has the Codex and Edition cycle.

Now, that is not a lazy, handwavium excuse. My experiences do not by any stretch negate such comments and complaints. It’s just, well, I’m so used to them, they neither disappoint nor surprise me as an individual.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in de
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Nuremberg

I think it is really about what you want from the game. As a kid playing 2e, I was really happy with all the wacky stuff that happened. It wasn't really a wargame as much as it was a sort of skirmish roleplaying game with lots of crazy stuff happening. We definitely did the most of our crazy and imaginative stuff back then in terms of weird scenarios and so on.

3e was like a bucket of cold water at first. But then when I played it, I saw the point - the make this a wargame, where you used tactics and so on, where the normal troopers were emphasised over super characters and massive explosions. And it meant you were telling a different kind of story, but also playing a game that was more of a competition. And there's nothing wrong with that.

If I want that roleplaying experience, I can play a roleplaying game now. When I was a kid, I didn't know what an RPG was at all, but when I found Dungeons and Dragons in University, I was like "Oh, this is what we were doing in 2e 40K!"

That said, I still incorporated stories into my games all through 3e, 4e and 5e and all through 6e and 7e fantasy in particular. The stories were just less focused on the heroic characters and more on the story of the army as a whole, kind of like a different genre of fiction.

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Great to hear you are getting into Epic MDG and especially 2nd edition which was possibly my favourite version (although am sure nostalgia plays a big part of that!)

Have been listening to a few of the Crown of Command podcasts recently and that has really made me want to play that version again! Of course, the beauty is that there are lots of rule sets you can play with the same set of models. So you can do that nostalgia collection thing for 2nd edition Space Marine, and then it's a very short step to NetEpic, which is the current community effort and for which you can still find ongoing tournaments and events (well.. when things like that are easily possible again anyway).

What has kind of shocked me is how big some of these communities still are despite it sometimes being many years since the official versions were last on sale. Some of the Epic FB groups have tens of thousands of members with new completed armies popping up every day. I think the 3d printing and new proxy miniature producers (Vanguard, Onslaught etc.) have really helped and mean you don't have to rely on eBay price gougers or lucky finds. I love it, it's super chilled-out and you can pick your way through releases and miniatures at your own pace, for what you want to do, without the pressure of the meta crowd or needing to get the biggest and latest for 40k tournaments and the like.

Oh and 2nd edition 40k FTW

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

If anyone hasn't seen them, here are some of my trips back down memory lane.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Kid_Kyoto_Retro_Review_Index


Ah I love your retro reviews, always a great laugh. Will have a look through and make sure I have read them all!

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
Made in ca
Nimble Skeleton Charioteer






SamusDrake wrote:
Quite fond of the 3rd edition rules for Craftworlds. The Ulthwe council and Black Guardians were very awesome indeed.


I still have nightmares playing against Altioc and that damned ranger disruption table. That was one of the most obnoxious and un-interactive things I've ever experienced. Just start the game with your whole army pinned and/or in reserves and being shot at before the game starts.

3rd edition was certainly the wild west of 40k. Every other white dwarf had a whole new random (broken) army list in it, and nothing was balanced lol.

I really enjoyed 5th and 6th edition. 7th would have been great, if formations weren't free. That was wild.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 jaredb wrote:


I still have nightmares playing against Altioc and that damned ranger disruption table.


As well you should! Ah, the glory days of being an eldar player. Sigh....

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Nah, that was 2nd Ed. Shuriken Catapults better than Storm Bolters. Warp Spiders being absolutely horrific to face.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Codex Craftworlds? 2000?

Its got the ranger disruption table.

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






I was meaning the Eldar Glory Days

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooh. I seeeeeeeeee.....

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nah, that was 2nd Ed. Shuriken Catapults better than Storm Bolters. Warp Spiders being absolutely horrific to face.


That entire codex was bananas. Not just in the big ways, but in lots of little ways also. You could choose your flavor of broken.

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Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






My local game shop is moving, and the owner pulled me aside and said "hey, I think these are Eldar, I want the box they're in, do you want these?"

I now have thirty or so rogue trader/2nd edition era Harlequins sitting in a nice acetone bath becoming un-painted, I'm very excited.

The only problem is, they're an el classico "was played with for a long time" 2nd edition army, which means much like the ancient roman statuary found defaced as foolish romans updated their dead relatives' hairstyles, many of my beautiful harlequins are missing hands and arms due to someone having updated their weapon loadout and the altered weapon being long since broken or lost.

Looking through them I believe I have almost all of the 1988 metal harlequin sculpts, with multiple duplicates. I haven't decided whether I'll try to carefully replicate their original weaponry with my 3d printer and greenstuff, or whether I'll try to kitbash them with modern bits.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/01 19:50:22


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







I'm bringing back Man o War.

Actually that's not quite right. The first gaming store over here opened when MoW was already OOP, so nobody in my area has ever ever played it.

But now we will. I got all the cardboard in a BGG trade and some glorious gentleman has sent me all the rulebooks for free, and the miniature line is well on its way to being completey digitzed for 3d printing.

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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

I like looking through and reading the older editions far more than I would play. But if I had a like-minded playgroup I’d definitely have a game of 2nd edition for old time’s sake, or do a Inq28 style campaign adapting Rogue Trader rules for table games.

I prefer the feel of the fluff in older books, it has more of that grim, raw feel which is since diminished as you have less of the sinister stuff and more silly ‘awesome’ characters like Draigo or whoever. Also you had a lot more freedom to stick random stuff in rather than follow an army list. 2nd edition was fairly flexible, you look in the back of the codex books and there’s all sorts, dæmon-world armies, beastmen, entire armies of frateris militia led be mad priests, or whatever. Rogue Trader is a free-for-all, you can take your dark inquisitor with a random mutation off the D1000 table and his pet Grinyx, and put him in a custom vehicle to lead your zoat swarm...
   
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[MOD]
Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

It's odd since I have Africa's largest collection of Space Fleet models (well I assume I do, if anyone can prove me wrong please do) but I've never actually played Space Fleet.

I hear however it is quite a cool game (barring the throw dice in your box lid). The mechanic is you have to specify how your ship will move (turn, straight, stop) simultaneously with your opponent so one miscalculation can put you at a serious strategic disadvantage.

 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

I hear however it is quite a cool game (barring the throw dice in your box lid). The mechanic is you have to specify how your ship will move (turn, straight, stop) simultaneously with your opponent so one miscalculation can put you at a serious strategic disadvantage.


Space Fleet copied X-wing!

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40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

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Made in gb
Bane Knight






Check out the crown of command if you fancy some 90's GW nostalgia.

Joshua is rounding up various bods who like their lead minis and we do podcasts, You Tube videos and more.

I've been doing the Epic 2E retrospective with Joshua, we are through the core box and Armies of the Imperium, well into Warlords and just fought our first batt rep via the interwebs with me in the UK and Joshua in Japan

...and you will know me by the trail of my lead... 
   
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[DCM]
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Have been listening to that at the moment and really enjoying it!

Completely agree with how characterful the different Ork clans were at that period, it definitely made Orks a lot more interesting in Epic (and the whole army look a lot more colourful!)

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
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Bane Knight






 Pacific wrote:
Have been listening to that at the moment and really enjoying it!

Completely agree with how characterful the different Ork clans were at that period, it definitely made Orks a lot more interesting in Epic (and the whole army look a lot more colourful!)


Good to hear and thanks

When I was a kid, I owned a Mega Gargant, a Goff Clan and a blister of Gutrippers and I dreamed of having all six clans fully kitted out... as an adult, I have the minis, I just don't have the time :(
Same with the 40K 2nd ed orks... got several 1000 points waiting for their time to shine :(

The riot of colours, back banners and sheer comedic madness of 2nd ed 40K/Epic cannot be beaten on the Ork front

...and you will know me by the trail of my lead... 
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

I'm lucky enough I have all the old core rulebooks back to 2E (my RT book fell apart, unfortunately). However, I don't have any secondary books or codexes prior to what appears to be 3rd or 4th edition. Somehow I have a near-mint copy of Dark Millennium for 2E.

The books are fun to look at and see how the game has evolved, but because of space restrictions, all my old books had to go into storage - which has made it unlikely now that I'll continue to seek out a copy of RT to complete my rulebook collection.

I do wish they would bring back some form of the old robot rules from Rogue Trader, or at least non-forgeworld versions of the robots beyond the Castellan. As someone who does computer programming, I was intrigued by the way they had to be programmed, and I bet they could make a fun 40K roborally-like game with those old rules.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




South New Jersey

 JonWebb wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
Have been listening to that at the moment and really enjoying it!

Completely agree with how characterful the different Ork clans were at that period, it definitely made Orks a lot more interesting in Epic (and the whole army look a lot more colourful!)


Good to hear and thanks

When I was a kid, I owned a Mega Gargant, a Goff Clan and a blister of Gutrippers and I dreamed of having all six clans fully kitted out... as an adult, I have the minis, I just don't have the time :(
Same with the 40K 2nd ed orks... got several 1000 points waiting for their time to shine :(

The riot of colours, back banners and sheer comedic madness of 2nd ed 40K/Epic cannot be beaten on the Ork front


Also a listener! And you guys make it really tempting to not try to get some kind of old edition project going.

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Battlefield Tourist





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Haha Infinite_array I have been already checking out the Vanguard website today and looking at the 'Skinner' range, partly as a result of that podcast

I had been collecting for Orks for Epic Armageddon but after reading through some of the NetEpic rules (which is pretty much 2nd ed Space Marine with nobs on) there is just so much character in the Ork force that isn't present in EA. In EA you have mekboy vehicles and weirdboy towers reduced to powerful shooting weapons. In Space Marine your Weirdboy tower is absorbing energy from surrounding Orks and can be massively powerful, or you can get greedy, suck up too much and end up blowing a massive crater in your army! And your Mekboy vehicles have got all kinds of zany effects and bubble-chuckas that can envelope an enemy titan weapon so it blows itself up (lol). In EA you just have Ork Boyz, in Space Marine they actually have character depending on which clan they belong to. So left unsupervised Goffs will charge at the enemy, Evil Sunz will try and drive around at top speed, while Blood Axes will slunk off towards a table edge. The list goes on..

Not to denigrate Armageddon at all, I love that game too. I can totally see why it is so popular in tournaments because it's a massively tactical game, and it's brilliant watching a very good player take apart an opponent with tactical acumen. But, I think for flavour (and for Orks especially) I think the 2nd edition Space Marine, and NetEpic, captures the character of the faction perfectly (from a time when they were at their most characterful).

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page
 
   
 
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