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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'm wondering if anyone else has this feeling.

In 4 years we've gotten 4 waves of Space Marines.
8th Edition
Vanguard wave
SM Supplements
9th Edition

Each of these waves is bigger than many other factions with their updates across that same span of time. Thankfully, in that same span of time, we have also gotten...
Updated Death Guard
Updated Necron
Updated Genestealer Cult
Updated Adeptus Mechanicus
Updated Sisters of Battle
Updated Imperial Knights
Updated Chaos Marines
Updated Orks
New Faction Chaos Knights

Not to mention all of the little things in between them, like Howling Banshees and Incubi, a few characters for different factions here and there...

And yet, for every 2 big updates to other factions, we get 1 major wave of Space Marine releases. If this trend continues... well, I just don't see a great future for 40k. I see a lot of time and energy wasted onto more Primaris and a playing field that becomes ever more focused on Space Marines. Little dips in Space Marine power level/meta are quickly corrected because of the massive playerbase of space marine players, while factions that haven't gotten an update since 6th edition or previous are still begging for attention.

Aside from a few updated models, factions like Eldar, Tyranids, Astra Militarum languish, while other factions still need key models brought out of the resin slump, or even out of 3rd edition, like Dark Eldar, Chaos Marines, Tau, and Orks. Getting new Codexes isn't what I'm worried about. GW have been pretty good at pumping out the books (too many books in some cases).

I know a few of those are likely to get updated soon, it's just a matter of time. But, again. Let's say that Eldar and Astra Militarum get major updates... then what? Another big Space Marine wave.

One of the ways you really see the pain is in Kill Team. Every troop unit in the Space Marine Codex has a Kill Team entry, and as more waves of Space Marines come out, the Space Marine side of the Kill Team rules section gets further bloated. While Space Marines have some 30 entries, other factions have 2-5. It kills my motivation to even get back into Kill Team, despite the new starter set and killzone rules.

Another interesting difference is Age of Sigmar. Now, I'm not here to get into a squabble or debate about which system is better, but in terms of variety of releases, looking at Age of Sigmar is like a breath of fresh air. Yes, they had a big issue with an overabundance of Stormcast for a long while, but they've added so many other things, new factions, and have even brought Slaanesh out from the dead (so BoLS can stop writing those "GW is removing Slaanesh because it's not kid friendly" articles, finally). So while in 40k we continue to wait for new Noise Marines and Khorne Berzerkers, AoS has those factions covered in spades.

I don't know. My favorite faction, the Sisters of Battle, were finally brought back in beautiful plastic, and I'm thrilled that they might be getting even more in the future, but the weight of the space marine releases just deflates me of much hype or hope for much else.

Does anyone else feel this way?
   
Made in ca
Stalwart Tribune






As a Space Marines player I do agree that they should slow down with them as a) I think the list is complete (aside from a few things) and b) the other factions need the work more. I can't see these happening anytime soon however as the SM are too important to the profit of the company and doing work on the other factions would require both money and risk I am not confident they are willing to risk.

Bringing up AoS however shows that these risks can work out however that game was created out of the failing original Warhammer and as a completely new universe they are not constricted by 20+ years of lore to create new things. Something I can't see them doing with 40k and the Space Marines unless they to were failing.

I do agree with you but what can you do?
   
Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






Unless a new supplement comes along, and bar a very small amount of required multi-part kits and character options, the space marine model line is now complete.

Other than the above, and maybe the odd SC character update and maybe a new general start collecting box, marine releases are done till the end of 2022 at the earliest.

I get the frustration, but this cash cow indirectly supports other less financially lucrative products.

My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Unless a new supplement comes along, and bar a very small amount of required multi-part kits and character options, the space marine model line is now complete.

Other than the above, and maybe the odd SC character update and maybe a new general start collecting box, marine releases are done till the end of 2022 at the earliest.

I get the frustration, but this cash cow indirectly supports other less financially lucrative products.


I understand the cash cow aspect, but I unfortunately can't agree that the Space Marine faction is 'complete'. It'll never be complete. Centurions and all of the new Primaris things are proof of that. Just think, we don't have a melee-dedicated gravis unit. We don't have a primaris aircraft. We don't have a gravis equivalent of any of the typical HQ models, like Chaplain, Apothecary, or Librarian. Those are all things they could easily add, and likely will at some point, to keep the cash cow going.

It's just rough. 40k being the popular game, Space Marines being the obvious selection to make and sell more of. And yes, it is thanks to space marines that we get all of those other AoS factions and even things like Sisters of Battle, but wow is it overwhelming sometimes. I just get exhausted seeing MORE space marines come out. It kills hype for the hobby for me.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Without NPCs to beat up Marines lose appeal, though. I know my interest in 40k has continued to dwindle with wave after wave of Marines. It's too much.

Since the onset of 8th how many new kits for marines have we got, verses for everyone else?
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





drbored wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone else has this feeling.


Does anyone else feel this way?


Me. Focus has been moving from 40k to aos due to marine oppressive(compare to aos no faction dominates releases as badly) and rules being more and more extreme killy comboing.

2021 painted/bought: 497/417 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





tneva82 wrote:
drbored wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone else has this feeling.


Does anyone else feel this way?


Me. Focus has been moving from 40k to aos due to marine oppressive(compare to aos no faction dominates releases as badly) and rules being more and more extreme killy comboing.


I feel this.

I'm just sad that my two favorite factions, Seraphon and Daughters of Khaine, got passed over for new models. Figures!

But, those Soulblight are looking mighty spicy...
   
Made in gb
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot




UK

tneva82 wrote:
drbored wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone else has this feeling.


Does anyone else feel this way?


Me. Focus has been moving from 40k to aos due to marine oppressive(compare to aos no faction dominates releases as badly) and rules being more and more extreme killy comboing.


AOS has it's own share of extreme killing combo'ing and absurd lethality unfortunately.

For the actual subject of the thread though:

As long as people keep buying this gak in record numbers, it'll keep happening. The only way it'll change is if the oversaturation gets too much so that every non-Marine player just stops playing which means the Marines have no-one to play, which means they stop buying stuff. Or just the rate of releases becomes too much to keep up with. It's anecdotal, but at my LGS the new Necron models have been selling better than the Marines. That Marine Christmas Battleforce is still on the shelves too. I've seen a few players just straight up saying it's too much to keep up with and how they hadn't even managed to get or finished the stuff from the last release.

I also think the quality of the designs and sculpts does make an appreciable difference. Obviously you'll have whales who will buy 9 of everything anyway, but I think for a lot people some of the recent releases have just felt very bland and uninspired. Like the design studio is just sort of going through the motions (which at this point they probably are).

   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





We will keep getting random captains and Lts here and there, but we are probably done for a couple of years in terms of big marine waves.
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Unless a new supplement comes along, and bar a very small amount of required multi-part kits and character options, the space marine model line is now complete.

Other than the above, and maybe the odd SC character update and maybe a new general start collecting box, marine releases are done till the end of 2022 at the earliest.

I get the frustration, but this cash cow indirectly supports other less financially lucrative products.


There is still the whole csm line up to bring in line with the sm rule set.


To be honest I don't know what people would imagine to be an acceptable start to 9th ed. No space marine codex at the start was not going to happen. Extending each marine faction with all the primaris was a given. I guess GW could have not put the other marine factions in to the sm. But three things spoke against it. First doing so let GW sell 2 books instead of one to all sm faction players. Second, leaving them the way GK or CSM are, and not updating them with primaris, would require both wasting space in FAQ or WD to add any unit rules missing from those armies 8th ed books, and make it very unfun to those players, where DA would cost the same, or more, as codex sm units, but be functionaly at -1W.

And three is assets and investments GW has to put in to making sm books. The art is there, as are the models, they don't have to make any new models in some cases, or as Waltz said make an upgrade sprue and a character model. If there were to make an IG army today, they would face the problem of hybrid kits, resin stuff and old box sets. And something like a full revamp of the Primaris, Necron or SoB style, just costs too much, for it can bring. GW knows their sale data, they know what sells the most and what sells the least. If they knew that there is huge money to make durning covid with lets say a full blown Tau reset, we would see one for sure.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran






drbored wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
drbored wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone else has this feeling.


Does anyone else feel this way?


Me. Focus has been moving from 40k to aos due to marine oppressive(compare to aos no faction dominates releases as badly) and rules being more and more extreme killy comboing.


I feel this.

I'm just sad that my two favorite factions, Seraphon and Daughters of Khaine, got passed over for new models. Figures!

But, those Soulblight are looking mighty spicy...


Daughters of khaine are on a whole, fairly new sculpts though, unless you wanted a brand new unit.

My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
Blog 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

No, I don't share you're SM burnout with the hobby.
Because my hobby is playing the games, not waiting in anticipation to buy more stuff. Either they release stuff I want, or they don't. Either way I've got games to play, a small backlog to assemble, and an endless variety to get painted.....



drbored wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
drbored wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone else has this feeling.


Does anyone else feel this way?


Me. Focus has been moving from 40k to aos due to marine oppressive(compare to aos no faction dominates releases as badly) and rules being more and more extreme killy comboing.


I feel this.

I'm just sad that my two favorite factions, Seraphon and Daughters of Khaine, got passed over for new models. Figures!


So the Ironscale, the Blade Coven, & the Khainite Shadowstalkers + Endless Spells don't count?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It's just the way it is I regret to say. People say and somehow think this all will lead to an end of space marine releases for a bit, I somehow highly doubt that. We are just rounding the end of the marine models we know about. However when a release pace is burning out not only those who aren't getting anything but also the players they are selling to, that is a problem. Like for me, I have a couple marine forces and all I want to pick up is a box of the heavy ints so I can make my kill team with them, and that's only because I have to or have wasted models thanks to the rule changes. There isn't any excitement in it for me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/22 07:54:13


 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




ccs wrote:
No, I don't share you're SM burnout with the hobby.
Because my hobby is playing the games, not waiting in anticipation to buy more stuff. Either they release stuff I want, or they don't. Either way I've got games to play, a small backlog to assemble, and an endless variety to get painted.....



I could sit for a decade thinking, and never write it as clear and simple as this.



Without NPCs to beat up Marines lose appeal, though. I know my interest in 40k has continued to dwindle with wave after wave of Marines. It's too much.


The different marines list are not clones of each other though. Playing vs DA,SW, BA and some of the codex chapters makes you play vs much different lists, then if lets say you faced off against a custodes or an ork army. The different rule set and good faction marine units, are really well done in 9th ed. They were well done under the 2.0 codex in 8th too, RG lists were different from IH lists etc. And if one ignores FW dreads, then the flexibility of theme among marine armies was a nice thing for the game.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in de
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Nuremberg

Like ccs, it doesn't bother me. It used to, but I've moved on. What GW is currently releasing has no particular hold on my mood. I just want to work on the stuff I think is cool from whatever manufacturer. I don't mind if they release nothing but space marines for the next two years, because I haven't assembled or painted all my stuff for all the other factions and I'm not very invested in 40K as a game product.

   
Made in gb
Twisted Trueborn with Blaster




OK.. I get losing interest in space marines...

and I get "why can't *I* have a new shiny?"

but.... just PLAY why don't you? OH! THAT pandemic....

GW has more models on sale than I will ever buy (and I have a lot) even ignoring marines completely....
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

I get release fatigue. In terms of actual tabletop play, though, I certainly do not see Marine dominance locally. We just had a 20 man tourney with only 3 Space Marine lists. Top four placings were Daemons, Death Guard with Mortarian, Sisters and Orks.

Now, local tourney results are just that, but hey.


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, I can understand our frustration.
This basically killed my interest in SM. I find it more challenging to beat them.
But this is getting harder and harder with all the new shiny toys and units they got recently.
Nevertheless, I can understand GW to promote SM to the limit as it's GW's money making machine.

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Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





The release schedule isn't really doing it, but the mechanics are for me.

Nothing feels really effective or satisfying to use, particularly against Marines and marine-like armies where everything just kind of sponges off units and a heavy artillery gun kills like half a guy.

I played a game of 5th edition the other day, and it was astonishing how much better it felt. Bringing the right firepower onto the right target was rewarded with immediate and substantial effect in a way it just isn't now, where a mid-strength, AP-2, D2/3 many shot statline is universally the most effective option and tank guns feel anemic.

And despite the vastly greater ability to actually have an effect with weapons our armies didn't disintegrate nearly as fast. Even though my AP3 blast templates basically erased a squad with each hit and my vanquisher squadron was punching holes in his tanks, the fact that most units had to chose to move or fire at full effect, and fire or charge, made the game both a lot less lethal and a feel a lot more maneuver focused [My friend might disagree, since I immobilized or blew up both his Rhinos and his Land Raider in the opening salvo of my guns]


If I can get my friends to do so, I might be angling towards a reversion to 5th ed. Even if it has it's own problems [wound allocation *coughcough*], it still feels better than 9th.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/02/22 10:18:51


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in gb
Wing Commander





Bristol (UK)

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
The release schedule isn't really doing it, but the mechanics are for me.

Nothing feels really effective or satisfying to use, particularly against Marines and marine-like armies where everything just kind of sponges off units and a heavy artillery gun kills like half a guy.

I played a game of 5th edition the other day, and it was astonishing how much better it felt. Bringing the right firepower onto the right target was rewarded with immediate and substantial effect in a way it just isn't now, where a mid-strength, AP-2, D2/3 many shot statline is universally the most effective option and tank guns feel anemic.

And despite the vastly greater ability to actually have an effect with weapons our armies didn't disintegrate nearly as fast. Even though my AP3 blast templates basically erased a squad with each hit and my vanquisher squadron was punching holes in his tanks, the fact that most units had to chose to move or fire at full effect, and fire or charge, made the game both a lot less lethal and a feel a lot more maneuver focused [My friend might disagree, since I immobilized or blew up both his Rhinos and his Land Raider in the opening salvo of my guns]


If I can get my friends to do so, I might be angling towards a reversion to 5th ed. Even if it has it's own problems [wound allocation *coughcough*], it still feels better than 9th.

I totally agree with this take.

Like others have said, releases don't actually bother me much. But the mechanics do.
9th edition has at least toned back some of what I disliked with 8th, but all the core mechanics I hate are still there.
I doubt I'll have any luck getting Oldhammer going, so I'm moving to other games instead. Legion seems to be building traction near me.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I can appreciate that feeling of something being off with the current edition. Though I'll need see how it goes or what the inevitable 10th will be like in like a year when it happens.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
The release schedule isn't really doing it, but the mechanics are for me.

Nothing feels really effective or satisfying to use, particularly against Marines and marine-like armies where everything just kind of sponges off units and a heavy artillery gun kills like half a guy.

I played a game of 5th edition the other day, and it was astonishing how much better it felt. Bringing the right firepower onto the right target was rewarded with immediate and substantial effect in a way it just isn't now, where a mid-strength, AP-2, D2/3 many shot statline is universally the most effective option and tank guns feel anemic.

And despite the vastly greater ability to actually have an effect with weapons our armies didn't disintegrate nearly as fast. Even though my AP3 blast templates basically erased a squad with each hit and my vanquisher squadron was punching holes in his tanks, the fact that most units had to chose to move or fire at full effect, and fire or charge, made the game both a lot less lethal and a feel a lot more maneuver focused [My friend might disagree, since I immobilized or blew up both his Rhinos and his Land Raider in the opening salvo of my guns]


If I can get my friends to do so, I might be angling towards a reversion to 5th ed. Even if it has it's own problems [wound allocation *coughcough*], it still feels better than 9th.
Hate to break it to you but 5th edition was the edition of the Leafblower no? That was about lots of mid strength shooting.
And I seem to remember do very well in the tournament scene with the 5th edition GK codex spamming dakkadreads with Psybolt ammo. Again the epitome of lots of mid strength shots.

Not saying 5th wasn't a great edition but lets not pretend it was all that different in weapon use.
   
Made in gb
Wing Commander





Bristol (UK)

 Ordana wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
The release schedule isn't really doing it, but the mechanics are for me.

Nothing feels really effective or satisfying to use, particularly against Marines and marine-like armies where everything just kind of sponges off units and a heavy artillery gun kills like half a guy.

I played a game of 5th edition the other day, and it was astonishing how much better it felt. Bringing the right firepower onto the right target was rewarded with immediate and substantial effect in a way it just isn't now, where a mid-strength, AP-2, D2/3 many shot statline is universally the most effective option and tank guns feel anemic.

And despite the vastly greater ability to actually have an effect with weapons our armies didn't disintegrate nearly as fast. Even though my AP3 blast templates basically erased a squad with each hit and my vanquisher squadron was punching holes in his tanks, the fact that most units had to chose to move or fire at full effect, and fire or charge, made the game both a lot less lethal and a feel a lot more maneuver focused [My friend might disagree, since I immobilized or blew up both his Rhinos and his Land Raider in the opening salvo of my guns]


If I can get my friends to do so, I might be angling towards a reversion to 5th ed. Even if it has it's own problems [wound allocation *coughcough*], it still feels better than 9th.
Hate to break it to you but 5th edition was the edition of the Leafblower no? That was about lots of mid strength shooting.
And I seem to remember do very well in the tournament scene with the 5th edition GK codex spamming dakkadreads with Psybolt ammo. Again the epitome of lots of mid strength shots.

Not saying 5th wasn't a great edition but lets not pretend it was all that different in weapon use.

iirc 6/7th was more about that sort of thing due to hullpoints and such.
Psyifleman Dreads were S8 which is what made them so powerful, autocannons with the punching power of krak missiles.

Although you're absolutely right in principle. 5th edition was far from perfect.
I think the reason it's considered the "best" by a lot of people is that it's the last of 'classic 40k' before 6th edition gak set in. All the crazy stuff like Invisibility and Destroyer and Formations either didn't exist, or only existed in Apocalypse.
I'm sure 8/9th is a ruleset that people can enjoy, it's just not the 40k I (and many others) fell in love with.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/22 10:41:10


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





drbored wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone else has this feeling.
In 4 years we've gotten 4 waves of Space Marines
More than 4 waves, but then I don't really differentiate between chaos marines and loyalist marines these days. Particularly with what happened to forgeworld.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
If I can get my friends to do so, I might be angling towards a reversion to 5th ed. Even if it has it's own problems [wound allocation *coughcough*], it still feels better than 9th.

wound allocation can be solved by adding weapon groups in addition to wound groups (so that fire more weapons cannot result in less casulties)
as in each different weapon is its own group that need to be allocated instead of all weapons of the unit

Ordana wrote:Hate to break it to you but 5th edition was the edition of the Leafblower no? That was about lots of mid strength shooting.
And I seem to remember do very well in the tournament scene with the 5th edition GK codex spamming dakkadreads with Psybolt ammo. Again the epitome of lots of mid strength shots.
Not saying 5th wasn't a great edition but lets not pretend it was all that different in weapon use.

Leafblower was a US Meta thing, in EU tournaments it never came up on top or being an issue in general
(I think mainly because of different scenarios or victory condition as tabling alone was not a victory)

main problem of 5th, same as with every other Edi, came up as GW changed their Codex design mid Edition

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Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

I could be mistaken, but didn't Psybolt dreads only really become an issue in 6th?

When Hull Points were introduced (and so suddenly a few glances could auto-kill a vehicle).


As to the OP's question, I wouldn't care about GW vomiting out Marines if they'd at least have the decency to fix core issues with other factions *first*.

For example, much of the Eldar range is old enough to drink, yet instead GW focuses on giving a faction that already consists of new, plastic models an entire second line of new, plastic models.

For my part, give Dark Eldar a nice HQ selection and they're welcome to spend the next decade splurging out Marines like there's no tomorrow.

But no, instead we get 400 Primaris Lieutenants and 0 new HQs for Dark Eldar, in spite of the fact that Marines already have more HQs than DE has units, whilst Dark Eldar have lost 2/3 of their HQ section and gained 0 new units in over a decade.

Hell, I'd even be happy for Dark Eldar to receive a pile of new HQ entries/wargear with 0 corresponding models. I don't care, I'll convert my own. This way, I'd be happy and GW wouldn't need to reroute even an ounce of plastic earmarked for Space Marines. But no, even that is too much to ask - because GW insists on forcing their asinine 'no model, no rules' policy, even for factions they refuse to make new models for.

And yes, I'm aware that this is by no means the first time I've complained about the deficit of DE HQs (and releases in general). I've harped on this before. Tell you what, I'll stop complaining when GW get off their arse and actually fix the problem.

Akiasura wrote:
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 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in de
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Nuremberg

Yeah, Chaos Marines are also just more Marines.

   
Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation




Well if we look to Aos there were have been three main waves of Stormcast before they started properly focusing on other factions (with the odd SC model cropping up). Fingers crossed this is the same for 40k. There is a little bit of design space left for marines if you ignore oldmarines I guess but it can wait!

That said I would probably like to see EC and WE, it just slightly bothers me they have done two of the specific God Legions and not the others!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/22 11:22:20


 
   
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Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan

Can we really call it "waves" when this has been going on for in excess of like 6 years now?

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I think AoS shows us what 40k would be like if Space Marines weren't so popular.
It very much seemed like Stormcast were set up to be Fantasy Space Marines. The approach in lore, models, and advertising very closely followed what GW had been doing with Space Marines. Their release wave matched Primaris very closely.

But Stormcast failed to capture the audience in the way GW perhaps hoped, and so they have diversified their releases.

It's actually in GW's interest for every player to play the same faction. Because that way every kit GW puts out to that faction sells to everyone.
Why spend design resources making a Dark Eldar sculpt and sell to 5% of the playerbase when you can spend less resources (due to commonality of sculpts) and sell to 50% of the playerbase?
   
 
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