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Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

I think they look quite good. Pretty cool. We will have to see how their rules shaken out, but I am vampire curious.

Of course AoS3 might have a huge impact on how things play out. If they loose random turns it will have a huge impact.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

They look awesome. Seem to be trying to give you a ton of different ways to play them and are almost taking a 9th 40k "all the cool rules piled on" approach which will be fun if 3.0 books are like this.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I like them quite a lot. Skeletons, Dire Wolves, Zombies, the Mother of Nightmares, the Wight King, all of it is fantastic and I can't wait to sink my teeth into the models and get them painted up.

Trouble is, the release feels incomplete. Even with all of what they've shown, the Grave Guard now look wimpier than normal skeletons. The Corpse Cart is ancient. The Vargheists are still tied to a box with the FEC, and the Black Knights are in a kit split with the Nighthaunt. They also make big talk about these different bloodlines under Lauka Vai and the other characters, but what models are we supposed to use to represent those things? Where are the Vrykos blood-born? Where are the vampire infantry? Where's our terrain or endless spells?

My theory is that either at the end of this year or into the next we're going to see a Soulblight Gravelords second wave, just like we've seen for Slaanesh, Lumineth, Sisters of Battle, and Admech...
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Obviously way too early to call things overall, but I am liking the rule previews so far.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Most interested in whats in the new lore although some very nice new models....but have thousands still needing to be painted....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/12 21:53:54


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

drbored wrote:
I like them quite a lot. Skeletons, Dire Wolves, Zombies, the Mother of Nightmares, the Wight King, all of it is fantastic and I can't wait to sink my teeth into the models and get them painted up.

Trouble is, the release feels incomplete. Even with all of what they've shown, the Grave Guard now look wimpier than normal skeletons. The Corpse Cart is ancient. The Vargheists are still tied to a box with the FEC, and the Black Knights are in a kit split with the Nighthaunt. They also make big talk about these different bloodlines under Lauka Vai and the other characters, but what models are we supposed to use to represent those things? Where are the Vrykos blood-born? Where are the vampire infantry? Where's our terrain or endless spells?

My theory is that either at the end of this year or into the next we're going to see a Soulblight Gravelords second wave, just like we've seen for Slaanesh, Lumineth, Sisters of Battle, and Admech...


I'm sure there will be a second wave, but I wouldn't expect most of what you've listed. The trend of second waves has been largely expansion of the range/conversion of non-plastic to plastic, rather than reissues of existing plastic kits. Grave guard might get redone because they are very old and don't work with the new aesthetic of the faction, etc. but the corpse cart probably has life left in it by virtue of the fact that it can't really be compared against another similar unit the way the grave guard can with skellie warriors. Vargheists and Black Knights are still very viable kits and GW is basically stuck with them unless they also redo the nighthaunt kits they are paired with, GW isn't going to invest in replacement minis for a kit that they are going to continue producing.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Not bad but its getting off to a shakey start, release wise; Cursed City discontinued on release day, limited stock of the underworlds warband, some hit'n'miss models for this week's preorders, and its Battle tome released at the same time as a new edition of AoS is announced.

Personally, I'm looking forward to running a Cursed City themed solo-coop campaign but waiting on certain kits to be released. This includes the Broken Realms witch hunters, a "varg" creature of some description, maybe the fabulous new radukar model and anything else that is interesting in a horror-monster kind of way.

Being a relative newcomer to the fantasy side of Warhammer, I wasn't aware that the Wight King, Sepulchral Guard and skeletons come under Soulblight so I'm chuffed that I've already have some models to get started with. I'm thinking that a box of armoured skeletons( up for preorder this saturday ) might be a good investment as they can be used for other games besides AoS.

Casual gamer, casual fun! 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Unless they're hiding some faction stuff (and I've seen most of the book, so I don't think they are) this super screws over my army, and probably a lot of other people that ran Legion of Grief type builds.

My whole army was based around Vampire Lords leading an army of Ghosts. I love the Lord on Zombie Dragon, but I can't even run that as an ally in Nighthaunt as its too many points...

Like... this stuff happens, I'm not fuming or anything. It's just a bit frustrating.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/13 11:57:58


 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

The latest WC post is quite fun and shows the levels of Mannfreds delusions Good to see we will have the true picture tomorrow!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/12/5-reasons-to-pledge-your-allegiance-to-mannfred-von-carstein/


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in ca
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot






I read through a partial leak of the battletome last night. Some pretty spicy stuff in there, very much a Stacking Layers of Buffs: The Army.

Not certain on the forum rules regarding leaks, couldn't spy anything in the rules mentioning it, but to be safe I won't post it yet.

 Rippy wrote:
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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 Stux wrote:
Unless they're hiding some faction stuff (and I've seen most of the book, so I don't think they are) this super screws over my army, and probably a lot of other people that ran Legion of Grief type builds.

My whole army was based around Vampire Lords leading an army of Ghosts. I love the Lord on Zombie Dragon, but I can't even run that as an ally in Nighthaunt as its too many points...

Like... this stuff happens, I'm not fuming or anything. It's just a bit frustrating.
Legion of Grief itself is still valid; it is part of the Forbidden Power supplement. For that matter anything in the LoN battletome not directly updated in SGL is valid until they say otherwise. So legions of Night and Blood are replaced by the new versions as are updated warscrolls but Grand Host and Legion of Sacrament will remain useable for an indeterminate amount of time.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Beastmaster





When I realized you can run a dragon list with Avengorii I can actually run my a lot of my FEC dragons as Soulblight. Even have all the Mounted Vampire Lord parts to and the riders magnetized to switch them out.

So I am liking things so far, only because I can technically dual field an army I already have.

-Primary Armies -
Craftworlds | Dark Angels | Death Guard | Sisters of Battle | Chaos Knights | Flesh-Eater Courts | Idoneth Deepkin

- Secondary Armies -
Drukhari | Necrons || Tyranids | Daughters of Khaine | Blades of Khorne | Stormcast Eternals
 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

I was considering painting some models. It is the monsters that drew me to it. But the FEC monster list with Ghoul back up is very strong and a well established list. Those monsters will stomp you.

After having seen through the leaks I do not see how regular vampires should be able to replicate that. Mind you I am just a lay person.

But all of the vampire spells are variations on magic missile for the most part. De buffs are in the morarts and deathmage section. And even then there are no buffs. Only buff come from command abilities mostly.

The graveside rule is unique and allows you to deepstriker a lot of stuff onto the table. Forcing your opponent to advance if he wants to block this.

Unless there is something I am not seeing FEC are better for monster mash. (Although the monster faction has - 1 to hit them unless you are a monster. And their heroes reduce rending by 1.)

But there must be things I can not see. At least 2 things gives zombies a bonus to their save. But they have no Armour save. I do not know what that is about.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in be
Raging Rat Ogre






The leaks are out now... Being a long time LoN player, I was initially very annoyed.

Mostly because lmost of the old stuff that used to be good, got nerfed (very significantly in some cases) but some of the bad stuff got really good.


For those starting out with vampires, a few things that seem pretty obvious by now:

1) Skeletons back on the shelf, zombies are great now and will do everything better than the skellies ever wil.

2) There is no reason not to pretend your VLoZD isn't prince Vordrai anymore. He'll fit into most other bloodlines, but will be even better in Kastelai. Mannfred is also good enough to slot into other bloodlines besides Legion of Night.

3) Elite vampire force through Kastelai is very much on the table... If it's got the vampire keyword, have it in there and it'll perform well. Gravesites have been nerfed so hard, I don't think it'll be a mechanic you HAVE to take, so full vampire definitely doesn't miss out on too much. Some wolves in there could still be good though.

4) I only see a foot vampire to be useful in a Vyrkos Dynasty who can really go mad with zombies and direwolves. This is the fully opposite build of the mounted Kastelai.

5) Graveguard with greatweapons are insanely good. If your force synergizes well with these, expect insane output from them.

The boy, I say, the boy is as sharp as a sack of wet mice... 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Could you elaborate a bit more on why grave guard are good?

Also, why are zombies good and skeletons bad? The few saving graces for zombies are low points. But 5+ /5+ no rend is a though bar to push through. You are also unlikely to get all in melee range. The moral wound is nice. Spawning more is OK I guess, but I am not seeing them throw out the damage.

You probably want some summon units because you can randomly respawn them at times.

Gravesites I think is quite nice. I did not know what they where before. But you can essentially deepstrikers turn 1.

The only problem is if the opponent gets turn 1 and body block them you are stuck. But you still have 2 Gravesites in your deployment zone. And they really need to push far out to block them. Meaning you can counter charge.

It is a good way to get zombies and skeletons up the bord turn 1.


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Beastmaster





 Niiai wrote:
I was considering painting some models. It is the monsters that drew me to it. But the FEC monster list with Ghoul back up is very strong and a well established list. Those monsters will stomp you.

After having seen through the leaks I do not see how regular vampires should be able to replicate that. Mind you I am just a lay person.


I do agree that I am not so sure how powerful Avengorii will be, but for me it is just a cheap way to get into Soulblight which I could then build upon later.

-Primary Armies -
Craftworlds | Dark Angels | Death Guard | Sisters of Battle | Chaos Knights | Flesh-Eater Courts | Idoneth Deepkin

- Secondary Armies -
Drukhari | Necrons || Tyranids | Daughters of Khaine | Blades of Khorne | Stormcast Eternals
 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Stux wrote:
Unless they're hiding some faction stuff (and I've seen most of the book, so I don't think they are) this super screws over my army, and probably a lot of other people that ran Legion of Grief type builds.

My whole army was based around Vampire Lords leading an army of Ghosts. I love the Lord on Zombie Dragon, but I can't even run that as an ally in Nighthaunt as its too many points...

Like... this stuff happens, I'm not fuming or anything. It's just a bit frustrating.
Legion of Grief itself is still valid; it is part of the Forbidden Power supplement. For that matter anything in the LoN battletome not directly updated in SGL is valid until they say otherwise. So legions of Night and Blood are replaced by the new versions as are updated warscrolls but Grand Host and Legion of Sacrament will remain useable for an indeterminate amount of time.


Yeah I don't see these Legions sticking around. Especially Sacrament.

As I say, I ran Vampires with Ghosts. Which you can't even do in Legion of Grief as they don't get SOULBLIGHT units.

Just not sure what I'm supposed to do with my Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon now... can run my Ghosts as Nighthaunt, but the Lord doesn't even fit as an ally as its over 400pts...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/14 16:56:52


 
   
Made in ca
Confident Goblin Boss






I think they look like a really cool army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Stux wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Stux wrote:
Unless they're hiding some faction stuff (and I've seen most of the book, so I don't think they are) this super screws over my army, and probably a lot of other people that ran Legion of Grief type builds.

My whole army was based around Vampire Lords leading an army of Ghosts. I love the Lord on Zombie Dragon, but I can't even run that as an ally in Nighthaunt as its too many points...

Like... this stuff happens, I'm not fuming or anything. It's just a bit frustrating.
Legion of Grief itself is still valid; it is part of the Forbidden Power supplement. For that matter anything in the LoN battletome not directly updated in SGL is valid until they say otherwise. So legions of Night and Blood are replaced by the new versions as are updated warscrolls but Grand Host and Legion of Sacrament will remain useable for an indeterminate amount of time.


Yeah I don't see these Legions sticking around. Especially Sacrament.

As I say, I ran Vampires with Ghosts. Which you can't even do in Legion of Grief as they don't get SOULBLIGHT units.

Just not sure what I'm supposed to do with my Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon now... can run my Ghosts as Nighthaunt, but the Lord doesn't even fit as an ally as its over 400pts...


Play Grand Alliance Death?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 17:13:17


Space Wolves 4k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Yeah grand alliance death is up for grabs. Easy peacy.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





I guess there's a chance grand alliances are more playable in 3e...

But as it currently stands that's an extremely unattractive option.
   
Made in ca
Confident Goblin Boss






They are playable now, cherry pick whatever you like from each faction. Also, Death gets the Cloak of Mist and Shadows, which is amazing! Stick in a Aborant Archregant too for some free models.

And, you can still have vamps leading all the ghosts. Even now ones which were not in Legions of Nagash.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 18:17:45


Space Wolves 4k
Harlequins 2k
Chaos Knights 2k
Spiderfangs 2k
Ossiarch Bonereapers 1k 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Its built with 3.0 in mind so I honestly have no say in it until I see all 3.0 rules and play a game at least.

15k+
3k
Emperor's Spears 2k
Beastmen 9500
CoS: 3500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

One of the named vampires (manfred?) also comes with a Cloak of Mist and Shadows like abilaty. It sounds very anoying to play against because if you do not commit enough they fight and kill you. And if you commint enough they just bounce away and couter charge you.

Of course things cna bypass this. Missile weapons, pile on 6" etc. But potensially quite nice.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





 Amishprn86 wrote:
Its built with 3.0 in mind so I honestly have no say in it until I see all 3.0 rules and play a game at least.


Gw's "x in mind" just means page or two less erratas. See how last 40k 8e codex had rules removed entirely with 9e and is among early factions to get 9e codex. And had no 9e style stuff in it to begin with

2021 painted/bought: 506/499 
   
Made in be
Raging Rat Ogre






 Niiai wrote:
Could you elaborate a bit more on why grave guard are good?

Also, why are zombies good and skeletons bad? The few saving graces for zombies are low points. But 5+ /5+ no rend is a though bar to push through. You are also unlikely to get all in melee range. The moral wound is nice. Spawning more is OK I guess, but I am not seeing them throw out the damage.

You probably want some summon units because you can randomly respawn them at times.

Gravesites I think is quite nice. I did not know what they where before. But you can essentially deepstrikers turn 1.

The only problem is if the opponent gets turn 1 and body block them you are stuck. But you still have 2 Gravesites in your deployment zone. And they really need to push far out to block them. Meaning you can counter charge.

It is a good way to get zombies and skeletons up the bord turn 1.



6" pile in alone makes them outshine skellies... It makes it an almost guarantee that you get to strike first in the activation wars. They 6+ MW is really strong as summonable units are the only ones you can now buff with +1A in this army.

zombies can effectively run to anywhere within 6" of an enemy and start doing magic via buffs like vanhell's dance macabre, unholy impetus, Mannfred and crimson feast to really mess with an opponent who though they could just block them in their own zone. A simple +1A (you can even get to +2A with a few other combos), can see a blob get up to 80 attacks... even if you don't, I can see units with that simple buff going up to 6+MWs... add in the other damage (which is probably not all that great) and options for vanhell's dance macrabre, and you can really get some super heavy lifting for a 230p unit.

They are suprisingly versatile in both flooding the board with bodies AND still putting out a decent number of attacks.

The boy, I say, the boy is as sharp as a sack of wet mice... 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




It seems like this book is almost entirely about massed units of zombies/skeletons with their appropriate buff characters. Most of the monsters are fairly overpriced and most of the elite units aren't much more efficient point for point than hordes of dudes.

You might see a unit or two of blood knights or other fast movers for objective contesting but it looks like if you're going to try and be competitive you'll need plenty of movement trays.

2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






No change from LoN then.
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

I do not see zombies as beeing an auto include and the others beeing worse.

Zombies are cheap. But 5+ /5+ is horrible. Even with the mortal wound on an unmodified 6. They have terrible range, meaning you most likely want to get a charge of to get them in melee range. And with only 1 reach you only have so many base to base.

It might be one of the cheapest wounds in the game though, so that is good. (I do not know skaven or the ogor once.)

What are the realistic buffs to get on them? Vampire on foot for +1 attack. Necromanser for fight again. What else is there?

Other battle line. Wolves seems like a glass cannon and can have some support, can be power house. I do not know how the skeletons are. They seem like they need support as well.

Only battle line that does not 'need support' are blood knights and terrorgheist/zombie dragon. Blood knights need to get the charge of to get anything done. Big monsters seems a bit lackluster. I mean most lists needs some form of frontline. That is usually what battleline is for.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/15 17:50:02


I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Zombie Mortal Wounds combined with their 2+ to add a new model makes them surprisingly nasty, especially with Bravery 10.

A big old horde of them may well prove a complete sod to deal with, as they’re a classic tar pit unit which is only a few lucky rolls away from doing serious damage to even quite hefty units.

So even without any synergy, they’re pretty reliable.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/15 20:15:07


Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Can go above starting size too.

Zombies of all things doing MWs, and on 6s to hit, is like... Like there's
'meh, this rule is OK'
'this rule is kinda bad'
'wow this rule is very bad for balance/narrative'
'this rule is complete cheese/unfluffy'

Then there is beyond that, where a rule is so completely inane that it just doesn't sink in. I don't have words to express.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/15 22:25:59


 
   
 
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