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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Goonhammer article slipped out early.

https://pastebin.com/L1gsui4m

Primary objective scoring is now 4, 8, or 12 points for holding one/two/more or two/three/more objectives in a player’s Command Phase.

Mission secondary objectives – such as Raze or Data Intercept – are gone. Instead missions now have new additional primary objectives that reward players for accomplishing certain actions, such as destroying three enemy units in a battle round or holding the priority target objective their opponent picks.

At least two of the secondary objectives have undergone major changes and there are more major changes to secondary objectives in the works (but we don’t know any more about those “major” changes).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/02 21:50:58


   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Goonhammer article slipped out early.

https://pastebin.com/L1gsui4m

Primary objective scoring is now 4, 8, or 12 points for holding one/two/more or two/three/more objectives in a player’s Command Phase.

Mission secondary objectives – such as Raze or Data Intercept – are gone. Instead missions now have new additional primary objectives that reward players for accomplishing certain actions, such as destroying three enemy units in a battle round or holding the priority target objective their opponent picks.

At least two of the secondary objectives have undergone major changes and there are more major changes to secondary objectives in the works (but we don’t know any more about those “major” changes).



Whilst I'm not naive enough to think GW isn't test bedding some changes here, it does explicitly spell out these are exhibition matches in a tournament to push players into unfamiliar territory. The thread title and your post sort of suggests it's a game wide update.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





The article also says that they are GT2022 rules, so unless they are GT2022 rules for Exhibition Matches specifically (a new game mode, if that's the case), they are game wide updates.
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought




Rihgu wrote:
The article also says that they are GT2022 rules, so unless they are GT2022 rules for Exhibition Matches specifically (a new game mode, if that's the case), they are game wide updates.


To be fair I did miss that the first time my bad, although I think adding GT2022 to the title will seem clearer.
   
Made in us
On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List




These are some unexpected changes! Excited to see what this does for the game. The idea of TO built lists is really interesting and something I'd like to see more of if it makes for more interesting match ups
   
Made in us
Flashy Flashgitz




North Carolina

TO built lists wont survive amongst the general tournament population. Can you imagine TOs building the lists for events with several dozen or even several hundred players?
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Dendarien wrote:
TO built lists wont survive amongst the general tournament population. Can you imagine TOs building the lists for events with several dozen or even several hundred players?

That part is pretty easy. You can even half automate it and only have the TO do finishing touches.

The impractical bit is different, nothing stop waaac munchkin clowns from just saying 'my collection is sadly just only 8 broken dark eldar skimmers and their gak op infantry and characters, and I thrown away all the bad guns by mistake, poor me, now build me the most unfun, autoplaying list you can to compensate for my lack of skills other than netlisting'
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

Interesting. Keen to see the secondary changes as they've grown a bit stale

The Circle of Iniquity
The Fourth Seal
(HN) wrote:
It's an objectively mediocre book from the rule, lore, edition, content, hobby point of view.
 
   
Made in us
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





I am a big fan of the change to the primary. There were games when if the primary swung to hard turn two or three it was almost impossible for someone to get back into the game if their opponent just played denial. That will be harder now.
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Destroying 3 units to fulfil primary is bad. Look at armies like knights. A knight player might only be 4 models if they're not taking the small knights.

   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Southern New Hampshire

Jarms48 wrote:
Destroying 3 units to fulfil primary is bad. Look at armies like knights. A knight player might only be 4 models if they're not taking the small knights.



Conversely, it would help make Knights more competitive.

"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln

Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.


DR:80S++G++M--B+IPwhfb01#+D+++A+++/fWD258R++T(D)DM+++
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I understand decreasing the rewards to primaries, as the run-away factor can be an issue.

However, does this change further shift the emphasis on the game onto the already-too-important secondaries?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/03 04:10:10


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Do we have an official place to see that

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

You'll have to wait until GW puts the latest patch for their rules up for sale.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I understand decreasing the rewards to primaries, as the run-away factor can be an issue.

However, does this change further shift the emphasis on the game onto the already-too-important secondaries?



No, the points from the primary are still the same 45 ones. Actually they could be easier to score now.

You get your 4, 8, 12 per turn AND the mission specific secondary counted into the primaries.

The fact that now all missions have different scoring for primaries is a call back to the CA missions of 8th, of which I was a great fun.

Having different objectives every mission made it so that you needed to have a list which could tackle all of them.

The 3 unit killed per round mission is for example a hard stab at MSU builds.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Jarms48 wrote:
Destroying 3 units to fulfil primary is bad. Look at armies like knights. A knight player might only be 4 models if they're not taking the small knights.



I think it would work like this -- you can max 12 points on objectives for 48 in the game so you can still reach 45, but it is a little harder. Killing 3 units is harder for some matchups, but the goal, I think, might be two fold:

1) Allow armies that don't do certain things well to have an in-road to scoring primary another way
2) To dis-incentivize lists that are more vulnerable to those "secondary primaries"

The devil is in the details though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/03 13:51:33


   
Made in ca
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Halifax, Nova Scotia

GW has two preview missions from CA2022 up on WarCom now: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/03/watch-the-worlds-best-warhammer-players-at-the-us-open-2021-finale-this-weekend-live-on-twitch/

Beyond the changes we knew, it's also interesting that the Command Phase Command Points are no longer automatic in all missions.
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer




 Asmodai wrote:
Beyond the changes we knew, it's also interesting that the Command Phase Command Points are no longer automatic in all missions.


It says "this is in addition to the Battle-forged CP bonus", which suggests you still always get 1 per turn, but this is a way to get an extra one.
   
Made in ca
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Halifax, Nova Scotia

IanVanCheese wrote:
 Asmodai wrote:
Beyond the changes we knew, it's also interesting that the Command Phase Command Points are no longer automatic in all missions.


It says "this is in addition to the Battle-forged CP bonus", which suggests you still always get 1 per turn, but this is a way to get an extra one.


In this mission, a player only receives the Battle-forged CP bonus at the start of their Command phase if they control either one or more objective markers in their opponent’s territory, or if they control one or more objective markers in no man’s land. In addition, if at the start of their Command phase a player controls the objective marker in their opponent’s deployment zone, that player receives 1 additional Command point (this is in addition to the Battle-forged CP bonus).


The word "only" implies that you wouldn't get the normal one unless you have at least a midfield objective.I read the "this is in addition" part to only apply to the second sentence about controlling an opponent's deployment zone objective.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/03 15:23:55


 
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer




 Asmodai wrote:
IanVanCheese wrote:
 Asmodai wrote:
Beyond the changes we knew, it's also interesting that the Command Phase Command Points are no longer automatic in all missions.


It says "this is in addition to the Battle-forged CP bonus", which suggests you still always get 1 per turn, but this is a way to get an extra one.


In this mission, a player only receives the Battle-forged CP bonus at the start of their Command phase if they control either one or more objective markers in their opponent’s territory, or if they control one or more objective markers in no man’s land. In addition, if at the start of their Command phase a player controls the objective marker in their opponent’s deployment zone, that player receives 1 additional Command point (this is in addition to the Battle-forged CP bonus).


The word "only" implies that you wouldn't get the normal one unless you have at least a midfield objective.I read the "this is in addition" part to only apply to the second sentence about controlling an opponent's deployment zone objective.


Oh yeah, good spot. I just read the last bit about the extra one. I guess this encourages people to push out and play aggressive. Gotta take AND hold points to gain CP.
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





France, region of Paris

Two full missions from the upcoming Chapter Approved 2022 are displayed on Warhammer communauty.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/E1PawH9CyUJv0YOp.pdf

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/xYmRtsSZ3iwqpeqZ.pdf

Very nice indeed.

longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard  
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






That CP change could backfire IMHO. Now if an aggressively mobile army presses into a slower one early they can start snowballing 2 CP a turn to the army on its back foots 0 CP.

   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

This looks like actually interesting missions that would play slighly different ones from the others.

A step in the good direction. Anythimg that moves from the dreadfully boring 9th missions is a nice thing from me.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






 Galas wrote:
This looks like actually interesting missions that would play slighly different ones from the others.

A step in the good direction. Anythimg that moves from the dreadfully boring 9th missions is a nice thing from me.


I do agree with this as well, it always seemed like the mission specific flavor secondaries were skipped over and every mission just became the same. These two examples have one that rewards slower armies and another that punishes MSU. Seems like they are being smart and using the missions to target Drukhari rather then nerfing the army into oblivion with points changes.

   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





The new priority objective scenarion as boring as before. Automatic 15 secondary turned to automatic 15 primary

2022 painted/bought: 38/38 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Yea this is very interesting. Priority Target was the secondary everyone chose. Now people won't have a default 15 point secondary, which changes a lot for that mission. Here's hoping that secondaries change enough to accomodate armies or opponents that don't offer a lot of choice.

The second one is a redo of Retrieval, which had "Minimize Losses" and no one took that, really. Doing just hold two for four rounds gets you 32 so you need to kill 13 units to cover that gap. You'd still need to aim for a round of hold more to make that achievable even against MSU.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
The new priority objective scenarion as boring as before. Automatic 15 secondary turned to automatic 15 primary


That's a fair bit different though. It means you can interact with no man's land less and try and strip them off their priority target. And then you still have to fill the 15 point void of that missing secondary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also note that the opponent picks the priority target.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/03 16:52:52


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Indiana

 Red Corsair wrote:
 Galas wrote:
This looks like actually interesting missions that would play slighly different ones from the others.

A step in the good direction. Anythimg that moves from the dreadfully boring 9th missions is a nice thing from me.


I do agree with this as well, it always seemed like the mission specific flavor secondaries were skipped over and every mission just became the same. These two examples have one that rewards slower armies and another that punishes MSU. Seems like they are being smart and using the missions to target Drukhari rather then nerfing the army into oblivion with points changes.


Feel like the missions are designed to force people to build more TAC if they want to do well in a tournament instead of going all in on an extreme that is good at king of the hill.

People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

My Deathwatch army project thread  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Changes to secondaries

ROD

If this action is successfully completed, roll one D6 subtracting 1 from that roll if the unit that completed that action has the Troops battlefield role. If the result is less than or equal to the number of models currently in that unit, the table quarter is said to be Servo-skull retrieved.


It can be done by bikers and characters now albeit much less easily.

No Prisoners

In addition, if your kill point tally is between 50 and 99, you score 1 additional Victory Point. And if your kill point tally is 100 or more, you score 2 additional Victory Points.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Skimping away with command squads, thralls, lictors, etc for ROD won't cut it any more.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/04 01:21:24


   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 xeen wrote:
I am a big fan of the change to the primary. There were games when if the primary swung to hard turn two or three it was almost impossible for someone to get back into the game if their opponent just played denial. That will be harder now.


Yeah...did we really need to further punish armies without big bricks of tough elite infantry.... its already been like 70% of the play meta for the entirety of 9th..

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Southern New Hampshire

Tzeentch forbid - people might actually have to field *gasp!* armies...

"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln

Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.


DR:80S++G++M--B+IPwhfb01#+D+++A+++/fWD258R++T(D)DM+++
 
   
 
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