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Codex Genestealer Cult 9th edition. Now with 100% more crossfire  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Desied to start the new thread. If anybody have any primers for 9th let's post them.

Looking around the web I am overall on first impression quite happy.

Abominants (T5, 3 wounds) and purestrain genestealers (4++) got upgraded. Hybrid metamorphs have the whip build in, so they might have a home now.

Trucks and rock grinders got better save, - 1 damage and went up 15 points. Acolytes (our bread and butter unit) went up 1 point and got 1 T.

I am not sold on the 20 point banner. Sad to loose re-roll 1, but primus can do that now. (The wording on the timing templating is amazing BTW.)

All characters seems on first impression to be playable, but I have not followed up on them closely. Psykick powers are weaker, but we have better access to them and they are on good characters now.

Several ways to get good charges from reserves. But best is 8" charge on 3d6, discard lowest, +1. Takes some sett up but it can work.

Crossfire looks great, but we need to lean into it. Especially if we want that +1 to the wound roll. (Hand flamers, yes please.)

Several weapons then where not very exiting got better. All versions of seismic cannon. (Remember any D2 or more makes a crossfire token.) Ridge runners with rockets actually has some use now. (D2 for crossfire.)

All in all it is much the same, but updated for. 9th edition. We still crumble if people glanze our way. But our killing potensial is increased by a lott. We stil need to sett up a myriad of buffs to punch above our weight. But each of those buffs has less chances of failing the sett up. So ouer 'long sequence of dominos' have a better chance of suksess.

Welcome to 2022. May your uprising go as well as it says on the phamplett.


   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah I'm not sold on the icon myself. If its only on a few select units then they will just be removed entirely in 1 go, same as happens to Necrons now except way way easier because its only guardsmen bodies.
For a lot of them (like with 4+ neophyte shooting group) an Iconward may be worth it.

Thanks to a bunch of strats and other tricks I think even with a few Crossfire units you can get a lot of mileage out of it.

An acolyte unit with handflamers and the upgrade them lets them shoot as if the target is exposed.

Jackal Alphus, Sniper Sanctus, 5man squads of Acolytes with hand flamers can all give out a crossfire on 1-2 units and then you open up with some Ridgerunners with +1 to hit and potentially +1 wound.

Being able to put Genestealers out front fishing for a turn 1 charge (thanks to the pre-move upgrade) but also being able to put them into reserve or deploy further back thanks to blips sounds really good.

All in all it reads like an absolutely fantastic book. I don't know if GSC will be top tier because of how squishy the army still is but it certainly looks like a blast to play with lots of options.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/08 14:49:44


 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

One of the big tricks in 40K is to put a ridicules. Amount of buffs on units for a super attack.

Primus re-rolling 1's, crossfire on the i den det target and oveoading an attack from ridge runners seems great. Either it is mining lasers or the rockets. (Rockets become D4 when overloaded.)

Goonhammer also kept talking about that first turn charge unit of purest rains. That sounds like fun. And not a big army investment. (Although they suck a bit when they come on board again fif you did not get turn 1.) The big squad of Neophytes with 4 seismic cannon they talked about also sounded fun. (I think I build most of my seismic cannons into lasers though.)

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Purestrains are our sweepers T1. If there's a unit that will give us problems on T2+ with successfully dropping how we want, they've got the punch to clear it out. If you get them to S5 a unit of 10 averages 9 dead MEQ. Insanely efficient at 140 points, and 4+ invulns will make them obnoxious to clear out, assuming you don't just pull them off the board as soon as they're done.
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Some channel (don't know who, goonhammer or MWG) said that there is a relic gun that gives the crossfire keyword to a characters shooting attacks. Can work for kellernoprh and perhaps even better on the sabotour. Sounds fun.

   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Niiai wrote:
Some channel (don't know who, goonhammer or MWG) said that there is a relic gun that gives the crossfire keyword to a characters shooting attacks. Can work for kellernoprh and perhaps even better on the sabotour. Sounds fun.
Goonhammer said
The Oppressors Bane also returns, a multi-shot super-powered autopistol that now gives the bearer CROSSFIRE, and always treats the target as Exposed and as already having a Crossfire Marker. It can’t be taken on a Kelermorph any more, but is a huge boost to the utility of the various buff characters that have a throwaway autopistol shot on their statline
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





Fire truck tested well today. But I think mixing hybrids and neophytes will.maximize our crossfire and exposed shooting. I've found that I am basically always crossfire and exposing everything until I run out of units.

You still need the transports or a swift wind kills your troops. Its the only defensive option.

Also bladed cog giving +3 inches to flamers is some next level awesome.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






dreadlybrew wrote:

You still need the transports or a swift wind kills your troops. Its the only defensive option.


I am extremely curious how a horde list centering around an Alien Magesty Acolyte Iconward with the Pauper Princes 5++ relic would go.

You'd take a Jackal Alphus as your second HQ to avoid being forced to make someone else the warlord, and probably since he's so critical to the strategy generally you'd take a Locus to keep the iconward safe. With a bunch of 20-blocks of neophytes the Jackal's ability to tag exposed one one target and sniper-shot a second target to set up crossfire will be invaluable.

I think it'd have good play into the meta atm which doesnt seem to plan for chaff hordes basically at all, and you'd take just a gak-ton of Jackals, neophytes, acolytes, etc for the Iconward to grant a 5++ and resurrect.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 02:12:38


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in nz
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman



New Zealand

I don't understand why no one seems to be getting excited about Hivecult being able to perform actions and still shoot. This is pretty massive. We want to be dropping units into the backfield to set up crossfire anyway, and if that unit can Repair Teleport Homers at the same time - it seems like 15 guaranteed points.
Repeat with whatever Actions you feel like you want, and Secondaries should be a lot more manageable - so long as they can be completed within our turn...
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Yeah it is quite powerful. Fall back and shoot as well as the warlord aura are strong also in that creed.

I don't know the best unit to what you are suggesting. 3x5 units of hand flamers is 180 points. But so is 3 units of Neophytes as well. If they are just there to do objectives then theyi might be better, with longer range and more wounds. Not a guaranteed to out up a crossfire token (75% within rapid fire range.) But you can only deeps trike back there turn 2 or 3,athough return to the shadow or something probably gets around this.

But you can just spend some points on some action monkeys anyway. The cult creed affe TS so many things now, it is wild. I have not gotten a firm impression on them yet.

Four armed emperors good charges + free CP is also pretty wild. Rusted claw seems good on vehicles. Advance + stasionary is nice. - 1 on small arms AP means that 3+ and ramshackle is strong on transports.

I have a weak spot for twisted helix. It was what I played in the old codex. Advancing acolytes + cp advance and charge stratagem out of trukks made them as fast as genestealers. (But now genestealers can be as fast as genestealers.) I will have to wait and see. :-)

Edit: It is a shame they came from below says non vehicle.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 10:31:40


   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think Hiveguard might be the second best cult, because of being able to do both actions and shoot.

Best being any custom cult involving Industrial Affinity. The ability to just ignore any negative modifiers while still getting positives just looks so strong.

But almost every cult has something that you could build a list around. On the surface the balance looks great.
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Are there many negative modifiers on industrial weapons? The rock scissors come to mind. Moving with Neophytes. And when the enemy is behind terrain. Abberants don't get it anymore.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 11:09:37


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So, i've just finished watching a 3 hour run through of the codex by Skari.

Things I've learnt:-

10 Purestrains are absolutely going to be I every army I build.

The cult creeds are all pretty decent, though right now I am leaning towards Hivecult for its sheer flexibility.

The Sanctus has gone from kinda meh to actually really good. deffo getting one of these now.

metamorphs still kinda meh compared to just normal acolytes, but fight on death is pretty cool.

A big unit of acolytes with the 3d6 charge upgrade is pretty much gonna be an auto-include.

Very happy they didnt get rid of blips.

Am finally going to have to invest in rockgrinders.

Overall, very very happy with how flexible and fluffy this book is, really makes GSC feel unique.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 12:17:47


 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Niiai wrote:
Are there many negative modifiers on industrial weapons? The rock scissors come to mind. Moving with Neophytes. And when the enemy is behind terrain. Abberants don't get it anymore.
those, but multiple armies can also give out -1 to hit as defensive buffs. Ignoring Lightning Reflexes, Smoke Launchers, Nid Malanthrope/Venomthrope. Whatever that Tson power is called, Flyers in general, ect.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 13:12:53


 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Yeah, those are good point. But there is also a creed that makes you count as standing stil after moving and advancing. Witch sorts out the infnatery heavy weapons. It also gives some good range.

Looking at the cost of a brigade.

Patriarch
Magus
Primus

6 troops for 60 each (Neophytes or handflamer acolytes)

3 elite characters at 80 each

3 ridge runners (Although bikes are cheaper)

3 rockgrinders

1470. Plenty of points left for more troops (the reason to field a brigade) and for toys. An option if you need more then 6 troops but do not want to loose cp.

I think we can do good with the codex. Although in experimenting with list buildings I need to add units that can give exposed so I get the important +1 to wound on the shooting. It seems very important.

   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





I think we are looking at always having msu hand flamers units in deep strike to trigger exposed and crossfire. 5 auto hitting weapons triggers the crossfire. Flanking them creates the exposed.

Do we know if ridgrunners are core? That is honestly the best hope the codex has.

Be prepared to argue a lot with opponents on whether their units are exposed or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also hive cult is my jam. But 3 inches on flamers for bladed cog is some insane hybrid play.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 15:47:11


 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Sadly (but expected) Ridgerunners are not core, which also means that an Alphus does basically nothing for them outside of providing a Crossfire marker.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 16:02:10


 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

The old alphus provided +1 bs. The new crossfire rule +1 to hit. You do the math. It is not that big a loss. (If anything, the alphus might be more redundant. Although she is one good source of crossfire. I think the sanctis is as well.)

Ridgerunners and outriders might be our only units that are mobile enough to give exposure outside of deep striking behind stuff.

   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Niiai wrote:
The old alphus provided +1 bs. The new crossfire rule +1 to hit. You do the math. It is not that big a loss. (If anything, the alphus might be more redundant. Although she is one good source of crossfire. I think the sanctis is as well.)

Ridgerunners and outriders might be our only units that are mobile enough to give exposure outside of deep striking behind stuff.
My reasoning is that if you have an army of ridgerunners and neophytes in trucks then the HQ's feel bad. Primus can't effect Ridgerunners and the units inside transports, same with Alphus. Iconward doesn't fit the army so your 2 HQ's are Magus and Patriarch almost by default?

Just for the thematic outrider army I would have liked the Alphus to also be able to effect a Ridgerunner unit.
Tho I guess the 'free' expose might be nice for a Jackal unit that brings a Quad with Incinerator? But is that worth 80 points?

   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Mmmm... I see I missed of the neuanses of Alphus abilaty. I was thinking about her sniper rifle has 5/6's chance of putting up an crossfire token as she is damage 2. And she also has the Priority Target abilaty, to give a unit the benefit of the crossfire.

The sanctus also has a 2 damage sniper rifle, but he auto hits. That also gives crossfire.

True, one units of hand flaming acolytes is only 60 points and deal more damage. But they are hard to use turn 1, and they would die after use I suppose.

Regarding the limited numbers of HQ, for each HQ you take you can take a character that does not take up an slot I belive. So you can do all 5 HQ in the same army.

While primus aura do not boost the ridgerunners, he can boost 2 non core units one turn (usualy turn 1.) So that can benefit the overcharged ridgerunner lasers. I am just stuck assosiating 8th edtion ridgerunners and jackal as our anti tank.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 19:28:08


   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





careful with wording. There is a Crossfire marker, which is given out with 5+ hits or a >1 damage hit and gives +1 hit and there is Exposed which is +1 wound if you shoot at something with a Crossfire marker while it is in line with another Crossfire unit on the opposite side.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Best sources of Crossfire Markers:

1. Nexos. Put a marker on a unit anywhere on the battlefield, no questions asked (no LoS required). His ability "Strategic Coordination" allows you to transfer character buffs from other characters in the backline to the front. The Nexos-only relic "Cranial Inlay" gives him CP regen on a 5+, and he can use "Strategic Coordination" twice. 50 points. Auto-include imho.

2. Sanctus with Cult Sniper Rifle. 36" range, Heavy 1, D2, autohit. So he can move around to draw LoS and shoot, even after advancing in Rusted Claw. No need to use a relic on him for Crossfire duty. 70 points. Also auto-include for lists leaning heavily into ranged/Crossfire, imho.

3. Jackal Alphus. Her buffing potential is not that great actually ("Priority Targeting" has some annoying limitations, not only in regards to CORE units, but also interaction with stratagems that require "true" exposed, and don't work with "Priority Targeting"). But it's still there, and M14 instead of M6 for the Sanctus. BS 2+, 3+ after moving. 80 points. Probably really good (and thematic) in Rusted Claw, otherwise not so much.

4. "Oppressor's Bane" autopistol relic. Only 15" range, but nice stats, always counts as having Crossfire/Exposed active, and gives the wearer the Crossfire keyword. Chuck it on a buff character and call it a day. Primus sadly cannot take it, prime candidates are Biophagus and Clamavus.

5. 5 Acolytes with Hand Flamers. You need to roll really badly to not get five hits, but it's still 60 points for a throwaway unit. Max. one these, I guess.

Taking a HQ unit allows you to add another <Character> without taking up a slot, so with 3+6 base for a Batallion slots will prettymuch never be an issue. Limitation of one character of a type per detachment is still in play, though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/09 23:41:44


 
   
Made in it
Dakka Veteran




The day I'll do fewer hits than 5 on auto hitting 5D6s I'll let you know
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Good write up Acehilator. The nice thing about acolytes is that they will often also activate exposed if you come from behind.

While we have a lot of new cool tricks in this codex we stil can't take a hit. We need to milk the new deadly potensial to the max IMHO. It does not help to have +1 to hit and +1 to wound if we don't activate it. (Witch i suspect a lot of first day lists will have a hard time doing.)

Do anybody have any good canidates to get exposed as well?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/10 00:21:39


   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





KurtAngle2 wrote:
The day I'll do fewer hits than 5 on auto hitting 5D6s I'll let you know
if your trying to be cheap you bring 3 flamers for still an almost guaranteed 5 hits. 2 flamers + 3 pistols is probably not good enough but I havn't done the math on that.
   
Made in nz
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman



New Zealand

Ultimately, getting Exposed relies on angles, so it comes down to how the opposing unit s arranged, and which angle our forces are coming from... hordes should be fairly easy to Expose, but the elite units we most want to get this on will be harder due to small numbers. The closer our first unit is, and the wider they are spaced out, the greater arc of the board they open up for a unit to take advantage of exposed.
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Exposed:

No sources from WL traits, relics or psychic powers (neither general nor Cult-specific), or Cult-specific stratagems.

Proficient planning: "A perfect Ambush"
+15 points, Crossfire & Exposed active on a target within 12" when arriving as Reinforcements. As usual, can only take this upgrade for one unit of your army. Note, you cannot avoid the -1 penalty for Heavy weapons, even as Rusted Claw.

Stratagems:
"Dig them out" (1 CP)
Target within 12" counts as Exposed for Industrial weapons. Interestingly, does not count as Crossfire, and does not require Crossfire active on the target either.

"Pack Hunters" (2 CP)
Enemy unit within 6" of a ATALAN JACKAL unit counts as Exposed for attacks from all other units in your army. Does not require the Jackals to attack the enemy unit, and again only grants Exposed and not Crossfire.

Generally speaking, Exposed will require a sizeable melee element in your army to get consistently. Don't overextend trying to get it, and you probably don't want to drop too many Neophytes in the back of your enemies lines. The obligatory 5-man Acolyte squad will be good for this.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/10 01:04:15


 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Why does not rusted claw avoid the - 1 from heavy weapons? Is it a spesific wording for GSC? Arriving from reserves count as a normal move. Rusted claw count as remaining stationary until the end of the shooting phase.

With athelan jackals beeing fairly cheap and sturdy for their price they can just sipp back on the back end of the table and try to trigger exposed. Those and ridge runners are probably the most movement per unit for points. 4 jackals can also. Space out quite wide.

I just had a hilarious thought of not taking anything but small infnatery to make the opponents heavy weapons really suck. Just supercost every unit starting on the board with 'they came from below' and suddenly you have a pre game move on all units. Sort of like Necrons have (expansionist, is that what they are called?)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/10 01:24:16


   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

 Ordana wrote:
KurtAngle2 wrote:
The day I'll do fewer hits than 5 on auto hitting 5D6s I'll let you know
if your trying to be cheap you bring 3 flamers for still an almost guaranteed 5 hits. 2 flamers + 3 pistols is probably not good enough but I havn't done the math on that.
Are they BS 3+ or 4+? Assuming 3+...

Numbers are as follows:

99.97% chance of 5+ hits from 4d6 Flamer hits and 1 pistol shot.
99.59% chance of 5+ hits from 3d6 Flamer hits and 2 pistol shots.
96.30% chance of 5+ hits from 2d6 Flamer hits and 3 pistol shots.
77.78% chance of 5+ hits from 1d6 Flamer hits and 4 pistol shots.
13.17% chance of 5+ hits from 5 pistol shots alone.

Two Flamers seems like the sweet spot, actually.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





Does the webber trigger crossfire because its not a 1 damage weapon?
   
 
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