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Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





I originally took sabotage critical objectives as a meme but I have been consistently scoring 12 on it. Has anyone else tried the amazing mind game this secondary gets to play?
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

So what units do we have that are bad? Bear in mind I'm a noob with this army, but to me everything looks fairly viable. The RR strikes me as the worst bang for the buck, but if taken in numbers seems like it could be serviceable. The Locus maybe? I don't fully see the utility of it.

 
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





The locus is neat tech. I dont ever run them but I always want to. If they were 20 points I would. The patriarch is bad at 140, abberants are horrendously overpriced for 2 attacks, the abdominant is worthless without abberants, the sabatuer is bad if you only take 1, the jackal alphus is meh. Thats half the codex. The rest of the units are really really good. They all have uses and are playable. Its good stuff. Every troop/ unit that you can take 5+ of is worth taking based on your list. Pretty much everything playstyle wise depends on the cult you take and play with.

Stars of the show are nexos, bikers, neophytes, acolytes, rock trucks, and kellermorphs
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

I have seen more skilled payed battlereports have the locus bodyguard a patrirach with hiding behind terain.

My own epereince with abberants was really positive the one time I ran them.

I see most people beeing really splitt on the patrirach. Some love him, some hate him.

Most things seem aqsome so far.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




South Bend, IN

 deviantduck wrote:
So what units do we have that are bad? Bear in mind I'm a noob with this army, but to me everything looks fairly viable. The RR strikes me as the worst bang for the buck, but if taken in numbers seems like it could be serviceable. The Locus maybe? I don't fully see the utility of it.


Honestly the internal balance of this codex is pretty spot on compared to other books. Things in the book aren't bad as much as they are niche depending on what playstyle and cult you are. The stand outs for things being priced too aggressively is abberrants and the abominant imo but they're still quite playable.

I find the locus to be pretty effective if you're making a blender patriarch, myself.

Ridge runners make for excellent backfield obj holders or harassing units and triggering expose, especially for their price.

The only thing I'm not sold on is trucks personally. Especially with the insane anti tank that Tau and Eldar (previews/rumors) are putting out, I think to myself "why bother?".

All in all there's a ton to explore in this codex compared to other GW releases that have 3 spammy op units and the rest are trash.

3789
2850
2400
1250
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Trucks are small and easy to hide and let us play with a stronger board presence t1 if it's needed. The twin autocannon is also choice for setting up crossfires.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Trucks do not exist to bumrush at the opponent. No transport can do that.

You park it behind a building in the midfield and use it as a springboard to launch units at the opponent.
Or do you want to have infantry sitting around waiting to be bombed by SMS?
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





If you load them up with explosives the trucks are in fact perfect to bumrush opponents with.

Fire trucks are a trapnto kill. Because you spend so much firepower killing trucks.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




South Bend, IN

I'm well aware of their uses. There's far more anti vehicle in my meta and on the board everywhere nowadays and without having an invulv they are screwed over by lots. The -1 dmg is really nice.. We can talk about SMS all we want but let's not forget that Hive guard have heavily existed in the meta for a long time now. I just kind of see them as worse de raiders. Maybe my opinion is skewed though.

Edited for spelling

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/16 16:37:13


3789
2850
2400
1250
 
   
Made in us
Damsel of the Lady




 Glintfox wrote:
I'm well aware of their uses. There's far more anti vehicle in my meta and on the board everywhere nowadays and without having an invulv they are screwed over by lots. The -1 dmg is really nice.. We can talk about SMS all we want but let's not forget that Hive guard have heavily existed in the meta for a long time now. I just kind of see them as worse de raiders. Maybe my opinion is skewed though.

Edited for spelling


Don't forget Custodes Salvo Missiles.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/16 18:02:11


 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

In a 2k list, how many characters is too many? Do we run 2 detachments to get more in?

When making a list, what's are the auto takes when starting before the tweaking begins?

Let's go with twisted helix to start.

 
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





No such thing. You are giving up 15 assassinate unless you min your characters. So I run 11
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




dreadlybrew wrote:
No such thing. You are giving up 15 assassinate unless you min your characters. So I run 11


Aren't you giving up Grind Them Down too, then?
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Havoc with Blastmaster





New Orleans

I play in Crusade mode , so not as aggressive,
but I think a second Jakal Alphus in a second det would be a great force multiplier
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





Madjob wrote:
dreadlybrew wrote:
No such thing. You are giving up 15 assassinate unless you min your characters. So I run 11


Aren't you giving up Grind Them Down too, then?



For a single turn. They are only exposed for a turn. Your opponent won't leave one alive if they can kill it.
   
Made in us
Brainy Biophagus Brewing Potent Chemicals






 deviantduck wrote:
The Locus maybe? I don't fully see the utility of it.


The Locus has two main uses. The first (and perhaps most obvious) is a bodyguard that also benefits from character protection rules while also protecting his charges from melee combat so long as he is also engaged with the attacking model. This is quite good for things like an Iconward, Patriarch, or Primus that naturally want to hang around the midfield and allows you to position a bit more aggressively so long as the Locus is the closer (ineligible) target.

The second use is a pocket counter-assault threat thanks to the extended heroic intervention range and always swings first ability. A Locus is remarkably good at disrupting enemy chargers and can be a nasty surprise for an enemy wanting to sweep troops off an objective in close combat (or at least use the charge move to get more bodies on the objective for contesting purposes).

I've used mine twice so far with the new book and it did well both times. There is just a lot of competition for points and it is hard to just squeeze them in without building around their inclusion.

 deviantduck wrote:
In a 2k list, how many characters is too many? Do we run 2 detachments to get more in?


I think you have too many when you don't have enough bodies to protect them. Basically, it is going to depend on your list. Most of the characters cost around the same as a squad of infantry, so the question is how well can you protect them and do they have enough minions running interference so that they can do their job. I tend to have around 5-7 in total, but I also really like my mech and one of the considerations is whether I have seats available for the characters to ride along with the troops.

I haven't felt a need to get a second detachment yet. Maybe in a Neophyte swarm sort of list where more troop slots and a second Iconward/Kelermorph would be useful?


 deviantduck wrote:

When making a list, what's are the auto takes when starting before the tweaking begins?

Let's go with twisted helix to start.


Other than a Nexos I haven't found any single unit that is a must take regardless of creed. For Twisted Helix I'd probably consider Purestrains and Jackals must-haves though, simply because they get a lot from the creed ability. Both are fast so extra speed is good, both T4 and S8 is fairly common so they can get some use out of the 2's to wound fail ability, and both have S4 melee weaponry (Purestrain Claws and Jackal Power Weapons) that very much like the bump to S5.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/17 21:46:21


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




FAQ/errata is up, very light which is a testament to the book being well authored and edited at print. I can't really think of any rules issues they didn't tackle and they even covered some that hadn't occurred to me.

However, disappointingly, they walked back the CA2022 confirmation of the price on Our Time is Nigh, errata'ing it to be 15 points again.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/22 16:10:26


 
   
Made in nz
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman



New Zealand

I was a bit sad you can't automatically cause charges to fail with Prowling Agitant any more
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Do anybody know what Nick Navadi's GSC list that took 1. place at Melee At Shiloh was? I checked Bestcost Pairings app, but I can only see the list if I attended the event.

Auspexts Tactics had a copy of the list. But it does not say what the neophytes where armed with. I find it a bit ambigius as to if it was shotsguns or rifles.

https://youtu.be/zv23-5hmG2c?t=75

   
Made in us
Brainy Biophagus Brewing Potent Chemicals






 Niiai wrote:
Do anybody know what Nick Navadi's GSC list that took 1. place at Melee At Shiloh was? I checked Bestcost Pairings app, but I can only see the list if I attended the event.

Auspexts Tactics had a copy of the list. But it does not say what the neophytes where armed with. I find it a bit ambigius as to if it was shotsguns or rifles.


I had to hunt around a bit, but Goonhammer just posted an article with it:
Spoiler:

Custom GSC Battalion- Hunters Instincts, Industrial Affinity

HQ: Patriarch- Warlord Prowling Agitant, the unwilling orb, Mass hypnosis, Mental Onslaught, psychic familiar
HQ: Acolyte Iconward- Alien Majesty
TROOP: 10 Acolytes- 4 Heavy Rock Cutters, A Trap Sprung
TROOP: 10 Acolytes- 4 Heavy Rock Cutters. Our Time is Nigh
TROOP: 5 Acolytes- 2 Hand Flamers, Excavate
TROOP: 5 Acolytes- Demo Charge, Lying in wait
TROOP: 5 Acolytes
TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
ELITE: 10 Purestrain Stealers- They Came From Below
ELITE: 10 Purestrain Stealers
FAST: 4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge
FAST: 4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge
FAST: 4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge
TRANSPORT: Goliath Truck

Custom GSC Patrol- Hunters Instincts, Industrial Affinity
HQ: Patriarch- Biomorph Adaptaion, The Crouchling, Psychic Stimulus, Might from beyond
HQ: Primus
TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
FAST: 2 Ridge Runners- Heavy Mining Lasers, From All Angles


I'm not 100% sure this is accurate as there is a rather glaring error in both Patriarchs and Iconward having a warlord trait (not possible). If it is accurate it takes away from the victory a smidge and makes one question what else might have been played wrong...

Error aside,
it definitely aligns with some of the discussions that have been had in here regarding the power of Industrial Affinity and it follows Navadi's typical list design with emphasis on maxing out certain secondaries. I expect the Neophyes have autoguns for reach. Navadi had said in previous articles he builds lists to max out points first and do damage second, so the Neophytes are probably playing fairly conservatively while the melee units are doing the bulk of the trading.

Edit: Disregard first part.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/23 21:33:34


 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Strat_N8 wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
Do anybody know what Nick Navadi's GSC list that took 1. place at Melee At Shiloh was? I checked Bestcost Pairings app, but I can only see the list if I attended the event.

Auspexts Tactics had a copy of the list. But it does not say what the neophytes where armed with. I find it a bit ambigius as to if it was shotsguns or rifles.


I had to hunt around a bit, but Goonhammer just posted an article with it:
Spoiler:

Custom GSC Battalion- Hunters Instincts, Industrial Affinity

HQ: Patriarch- Warlord Prowling Agitant, the unwilling orb, Mass hypnosis, Mental Onslaught, psychic familiar
HQ: Acolyte Iconward- Alien Majesty
TROOP: 10 Acolytes- 4 Heavy Rock Cutters, A Trap Sprung
TROOP: 10 Acolytes- 4 Heavy Rock Cutters. Our Time is Nigh
TROOP: 5 Acolytes- 2 Hand Flamers, Excavate
TROOP: 5 Acolytes- Demo Charge, Lying in wait
TROOP: 5 Acolytes
TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
ELITE: 10 Purestrain Stealers- They Came From Below
ELITE: 10 Purestrain Stealers
FAST: 4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge
FAST: 4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge
FAST: 4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge
TRANSPORT: Goliath Truck

Custom GSC Patrol- Hunters Instincts, Industrial Affinity
HQ: Patriarch- Biomorph Adaptaion, The Crouchling, Psychic Stimulus, Might from beyond
HQ: Primus
TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
TROOP: 10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons
FAST: 2 Ridge Runners- Heavy Mining Lasers, From All Angles


I'm not 100% sure this is accurate as there is a rather glaring error in both Patriarchs and Iconward having a warlord trait (not possible). If it is accurate it takes away from the victory a smidge and makes one question what else might have been played wrong...

Error aside, it definitely aligns with some of the discussions that have been had in here regarding the power of Industrial Affinity and it follows Navadi's typical list design with emphasis on maxing out certain secondaries. I expect the Neophyes have autoguns for reach. Navadi had said in previous articles he builds lists to max out points first and do damage second, so the Neophytes are probably playing fairly conservatively while the melee units are doing the bulk of the trading.


i am a bit surprised about the alien majesty on the iconward, assuming that only the action activates the aura, which is the only thing affected, unless my german version of the dex is missing the aura keyword on the reinforcement thingy?.

Further the list is actually faulty as in he only chose to buy a singular demo charge, which is not an option allowed, so he has paid there 5 pts too few for the lying in wait democharge acolythes:

Spoiler:
Custom GSC Battalion- Hunters Instincts, Industrial Affinity Genesire’s Gifts
Patriarch- Warlord Prowling Agitant, the unwilling orb, Mass hypnosis, Mental Onslaught, psychic familiar 150
Acolyte Iconward- Alien Majesty 75
10 Acolytes- 4 Heavy Rock Cutters, A Trap Sprung 145
10 Acolytes- 4 Heavy Rock Cutters. Our Time is Nigh 145
5 Acolytes- 2 Hand Flamers, Excavate 71
5 Acolytes- Demo Charge, Lying in wait 70
5 Acolytes- 45
10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons 90
10 Purestrain Stealers- They Came From Below 150
10 Purestrain Stealers 140
4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge 53
4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge 53
4 Atalan Jackels- Demo Charge 53
Goliath Truck 90

Custom GSC Patrol- Hunters Instincts, Industrial Affinity
Patriarch- Biomorph Adaptaion, The Crouchling, Psychic Stimulus, Might from beyond 150
Primus 80
10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons 90
10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons 90
10 Neophytes- 2 Seismic Cannons 90
2 Ridge Runners- Heavy Mining Lasers, From All Angles 170

so he has 5 pts over since the acolyth squad with the demo is faulty anyways, because the correct pts for the demo lying in wait squad would be 75, albeit i don't see anything prohibiting him from granting the Acolyth and the other patriarch a warlord trait via the stratagem.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/02/23 16:16:08


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

 Strat_N8 wrote:
I'm not 100% sure this is accurate as there is a rather glaring error in both Patriarchs and Iconward having a warlord trait (not possible). If it is accurate it takes away from the victory a smidge and makes one question what else might have been played wrong...

Error aside, it definitely aligns with some of the discussions that have been had in here regarding the power of Industrial Affinity and it follows Navadi's typical list design with emphasis on maxing out certain secondaries. I expect the Neophyes have autoguns for reach. Navadi had said in previous articles he builds lists to max out points first and do damage second, so the Neophytes are probably playing fairly conservatively while the melee units are doing the bulk of the trading.


Doesn't the Leader of the Cults strat give you a total of 3 warlord traits? What am I missing?

Use this Stratagem before the battle, when you are mustering your army, if your WARLORD is a <CULT> PATRIARCH. Select up to two other <CULT> models with the HQ Battlefield Role from your army and determine one Warlord Trait for each of them (these must be Warlord Traits they could have); those models are only regarded as your WARLORD for the purposes of those Warlord Traits. Each Warlord Trait in your army must be unique (if randomly generated, re-roll duplicate results). You can only use this Stratagem once.

 
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Yeah it gives 2 warlord traits. For 1 CP mind you.

I stil can't figure out if the Neophytes are shotgun or autoguns. I would assume the later since something in that list needs to start on the table.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/23 17:57:57


   
Made in us
Brainy Biophagus Brewing Potent Chemicals






 deviantduck wrote:

Doesn't the Leader of the Cults strat give you a total of 3 warlord traits? What am I missing?


I will check the wording when I get home (as I could very well be remembering wrong), but I think the Broodcoven army rule stipulated only PATRIARCH, PRIMUS, and MAGUS GSC models could be given warlord traits if one was present in the army. In the case of Nick's list he has a Primus that would take priority over the Iconward.
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

 Strat_N8 wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:

Doesn't the Leader of the Cults strat give you a total of 3 warlord traits? What am I missing?


I will check the wording when I get home (as I could very well be remembering wrong), but I think the Broodcoven army rule stipulated only PATRIARCH, PRIMUS, and MAGUS GSC models could be given warlord traits if one was present in the army. In the case of Nick's list he has a Primus that would take priority over the Iconward.


I got the 'Dex in front of me. No priorities. They can be given to other cult models with HQ role.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
 Strat_N8 wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:

Doesn't the Leader of the Cults strat give you a total of 3 warlord traits? What am I missing?


I will check the wording when I get home (as I could very well be remembering wrong), but I think the Broodcoven army rule stipulated only PATRIARCH, PRIMUS, and MAGUS GSC models could be given warlord traits if one was present in the army. In the case of Nick's list he has a Primus that would take priority over the Iconward.


I got the 'Dex in front of me. No priorities. They can be given to other cult models with HQ role.


This. Its why the book states characters without the hq role cant be given traits. It was the previous version of this that required 1 patriarch, 1 magus and 1 primus.
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
 Strat_N8 wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:

Doesn't the Leader of the Cults strat give you a total of 3 warlord traits? What am I missing?


I will check the wording when I get home (as I could very well be remembering wrong), but I think the Broodcoven army rule stipulated only PATRIARCH, PRIMUS, and MAGUS GSC models could be given warlord traits if one was present in the army. In the case of Nick's list he has a Primus that would take priority over the Iconward.


I got the 'Dex in front of me. No priorities. They can be given to other cult models with HQ role.
Right. The Iconward can't be the warlord over the patriarch, magus, or primus, but it can have warlord traits as long as it's an HQ.

 
   
Made in us
Brainy Biophagus Brewing Potent Chemicals






 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

I got the 'Dex in front of me. No priorities. They can be given to other cult models with HQ role.


Thanks. I'll scratch out the previous commentary with that confirmation. Admittedly, I'm a bit irked that that is the second rule I've misremembered, but better to be wrong here than wrong in a tournament.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/24 00:27:18


 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





PDX

 Strat_N8 wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

I got the 'Dex in front of me. No priorities. They can be given to other cult models with HQ role.


Thanks. I'll scratch out the comment previous commentary with that confirmation. Admittedly, I'm a bit irked that that is the second rule I've misremembered, but better to be wrong here than wrong in a tournament.


Don't sweat it too much. The rules bloat over the last decade has been pretty outrageous.

   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Strat_N8 wrote:
 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

I got the 'Dex in front of me. No priorities. They can be given to other cult models with HQ role.


Thanks. I'll scratch out the previous commentary with that confirmation. Admittedly, I'm a bit irked that that is the second rule I've misremembered, but better to be wrong here than wrong in a tournament.


TBH, the last iteration of that stratagem had the limitation to magus and primus.


Anyways, has anyone tried to field a massed neophyte list yet?
Thinking about agile guerillas and supplies for the trait and two battalions worth of neophytes aswell as 2 iconwards.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
 
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