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Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey,

for the past weeks, I've been thinking about getting into WH40k. My plan is to get the Command Edition and start to build a Necron and Ultramarine Army from there. I have a gaming table which has two play areas, the "inner" area is 51" x 36" and the "outer" area is 61" x 46". After starting to read the core rules online yesterday, I started to get a little confused about the points recommended for the table size I have. For example the Strike Force battle size is up to 2.000 points. Above the table it writes "combined points of both me and my opponent". Does that mean each of us has a 1.000 point max?

With how many points per army can I realistically (from your experience) calculate with the above mentioned table sizes?

Best regards
   
Made in pt
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

I enjoyed 9th edition using 500 points on a 4foot by 4 foot table.

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon





koiyama wrote:
Hey,

for the past weeks, I've been thinking about getting into WH40k. My plan is to get the Command Edition and start to build a Necron and Ultramarine Army from there. I have a gaming table which has two play areas, the "inner" area is 51" x 36" and the "outer" area is 61" x 46". After starting to read the core rules online yesterday, I started to get a little confused about the points recommended for the table size I have. For example the Strike Force battle size is up to 2.000 points. Above the table it writes "combined points of both me and my opponent". Does that mean each of us has a 1.000 point max?

With how many points per army can I realistically (from your experience) calculate with the above mentioned table sizes?

Best regards
They change it up- Power level is combined, points is per player.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

For the outer area you can each fit a 2k pt force well enough.
At 36" across you'll find the inner area feels fantastically small.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Can't believe you've had several responses and nobody bothered to mention that the "official" size is 60x44 so a 61x46 table would be perfect. That is for 2k games

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/21 18:55:38


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Toofast wrote:
le would be perfect. That is for 2k games


To be clear, that means 2,000 points PER PLAYER

Want a better 40K?
Check out ProHammer: Classic - An Awesomely Unified Ruleset for 3rd - 7th Edition 40K... for retro 40k feels!
 
   
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Toofast wrote:
Can't believe you've had several responses and nobody bothered to mention that the "official" size is 60x44 so a 61x46 table would be perfect. That is for 2k games


And that's minimum. Not even ideal. Just smallest game can functionally works sensibly.

2022 painted/bought: 227/322 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

Toofast wrote:
Can't believe you've had several responses and nobody bothered to mention that the "official" size is 60x44 so a 61x46 table would be perfect. That is for 2k games


Why would I mention something that's not true?
There is no official size, just a list of recommendations based upon pts.

How big a table is ideal for your games is really determined by the # of models you use, what you & your opponent prefers, and of course what'll fit in the space you've available.
   
Made in pt
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

Fewer points on larger tables is best imho.

   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Cobleskill

 jeff white wrote:
Fewer points on larger tables is best imho.

agreed.
with that said...

With strategic reserves and no blast templates you can field as many points as you and your opponents feel comfortable fielding.
Last year (or the year before?) I built a gaming table for my apartment that is 48"x96" - essentially my gaming space is a piece of plywood cut in half (2x 48x48) and how big of a force you want to build is dependent on how good you are at storage and how many other games you want to share that space.
[Thumb - IMG_2090.JPG]
gaming space


'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks for the responses.

I currently don't have any plans to go for 2k on each side yet, but as you have already mentioned, the size in the rules is a minimum requirement and I was a worried that I barely meet the minimum requirement for a 1k army on both sides (2k sum). But you have clarified that.

Going for 1k on the larger table area should be great to play then.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/21 22:38:08


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

IMO, start with 500 pts and see how it goes. GW wants you to buy more, because it pads their bottom line with more profit, not because it makes for a better gaming experience.

You may find that playing 750 out of a grand total 1000 pts is "enough" for a good game that finishes in a reasonable amount of time.

   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






The minimum size you need to play per game mode:
Combat Patrol 500/25 PL per player: 44" x 30"
Incursion 1000/50PL per player: 44" x 30"
Strike Force 2000/100 PL per player: 44" x 60"
Onslaught 3000 per player: 44" x 90"

This is true for almost every game mode 40k has to offer, and as a beginner, you don't need to pay any mind to the few that use other sizes. They are wonky narrative modes anyways.
As you can see, you are perfectly set up for any game up to 2000 points per side.

Having a table that is smaller might cause issues because you can't properly set up missions as described. Outside of that the only impact might be that a player cannot deploy their army fully.

Earth is not flat
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We've been to the moon
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Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
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Made in us
Yellin' Yoof




44 x 30 works well for 500 per side, but I feel it's a little cramped for 1000. If you're playing 1000 and have a horde or tanks then deploying/maneuvering your army can be a little difficult, especially if you use a lot of terrain. Equally however, going too much bigger than the suggested size can make certain mission secondaries far easier, since it's harder to defend your whole deployment zone.

Ultimately I think your table is plenty big enough for 1000 per side games, and is technically big enough for 2000 point games if you ever do reach that point in army size. Which honestly there is no pressure to do, 500 and 1000 point games are a ton of fun and don't take 3 hours.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






That really depends on the army in my experience.

1000 points dark angels vs death guard is a completely different game than 1000 points orks vs tyranids.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in pt
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

 carldooley wrote:
 jeff white wrote:
Fewer points on larger tables is best imho.

agreed.
with that said...

With strategic reserves and no blast templates you can field as many points as you and your opponents feel comfortable fielding.
Last year (or the year before?) I built a gaming table for my apartment that is 48"x96" - essentially my gaming space is a piece of plywood cut in half (2x 48x48) and how big of a force you want to build is dependent on how good you are at storage and how many other games you want to share that space.

4x8 is the OG table size. 4x6 was too small imho. Kitchen tables are NOT gaming tables.
At one time, miniatures wargames were more like old time train sets than card games. The aim was more or less a permanent installation. With the Hasbro-ification of GW, focus has changed from serious luxury hobby to luxury priced branding and lifestyle nast. In the transition, much of the materials became more disposable, e.g. faction cards with rules that change every 18 months, models that are no longer useable due to no model no rules constraints and so on.
As a result, the entire experience is cheapened. Sure, just getting in, or unable to erect a proper table (4x8 imho or larger), then transforming the kitchen table into a Kill Team table or to play Talisman (game rocked) or even OG Man o'War for instance, is OK, but not optimal by any stretch. GW seems to want to establish a "new normal" to open markets to their luxury branding, without addressing the fact that expectations about what to get from the experience must change to suit. So, no longer is this a serious hobby like building a huge lifelike train display in a basement. Rather, the game has been crammed into a shoebox, for people who live in studio apartments with a family of 8. IMHO, a better ay would have been to market KT and Necromunda and Bloodbowl to those with space and time limits, and to leave 40K and WFB for people with the time and space to afford large installations, such as a proper sized gaming and hobby table.

Anyways, exalted for doing things right.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Back when I got into The GW Hobby at the very tail end of 2E, playing smaller matches on a 4x4 battlefield was perfectly fine, and 4x6 was the standard size for large tournament games. 4x8 was never the standard size.

Fact of the matter is that a standard 3x5 kitchen table is perfectly fine, as you almost never use the farthest 6" on either flank, and there's still 2' separation between the armies.

OG Necromunda and Mordheim play fantastic on 2x3, and certainly don't need a 4x4 space.

   
Made in ca
Deranged Necron Destroyer






 jeff white wrote:
 carldooley wrote:
 jeff white wrote:
Fewer points on larger tables is best imho.

agreed.
with that said...

With strategic reserves and no blast templates you can field as many points as you and your opponents feel comfortable fielding.
Last year (or the year before?) I built a gaming table for my apartment that is 48"x96" - essentially my gaming space is a piece of plywood cut in half (2x 48x48) and how big of a force you want to build is dependent on how good you are at storage and how many other games you want to share that space.

4x8 is the OG table size. 4x6 was too small imho. Kitchen tables are NOT gaming tables.
At one time, miniatures wargames were more like old time train sets than card games. The aim was more or less a permanent installation. With the Hasbro-ification of GW, focus has changed from serious luxury hobby to luxury priced branding and lifestyle nast. In the transition, much of the materials became more disposable, e.g. faction cards with rules that change every 18 months, models that are no longer useable due to no model no rules constraints and so on.
As a result, the entire experience is cheapened. Sure, just getting in, or unable to erect a proper table (4x8 imho or larger), then transforming the kitchen table into a Kill Team table or to play Talisman (game rocked) or even OG Man o'War for instance, is OK, but not optimal by any stretch. GW seems to want to establish a "new normal" to open markets to their luxury branding, without addressing the fact that expectations about what to get from the experience must change to suit. So, no longer is this a serious hobby like building a huge lifelike train display in a basement. Rather, the game has been crammed into a shoebox, for people who live in studio apartments with a family of 8. IMHO, a better ay would have been to market KT and Necromunda and Bloodbowl to those with space and time limits, and to leave 40K and WFB for people with the time and space to afford large installations, such as a proper sized gaming and hobby table.

Anyways, exalted for doing things right.


Most people don't have the space for a 4x8' table, or even 4x6'.

These absolutely nothing wrong with playing 500 point games as your standard, if that's what works for you.

You should take a look at why you sound so aggressive about "proper" sized tables.

Girl Gamers are the best! 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





ccs wrote:
Toofast wrote:
Can't believe you've had several responses and nobody bothered to mention that the "official" size is 60x44 so a 61x46 table would be perfect. That is for 2k games


Why would I mention something that's not true?
There is no official size, just a list of recommendations based upon pts.


What size table were the missions made for and playtested on? What size do all tournaments in US, UK, and Australia use? When the "minimum recommended" table size was 6x4, what size were 95% of warhammer games played on? If you go to a Warhammer store, what size are the tables? They're 60x44 and the realm of battles tables are in the back because "that's not the correct table size for 9th edition". Hmm...

You can play football in your back yard or a parking lot but a football field is 100x52 yards...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/23 17:00:54


 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 jeff white wrote:
 carldooley wrote:
 jeff white wrote:
Fewer points on larger tables is best imho.

agreed.
with that said...

With strategic reserves and no blast templates you can field as many points as you and your opponents feel comfortable fielding.
Last year (or the year before?) I built a gaming table for my apartment that is 48"x96" - essentially my gaming space is a piece of plywood cut in half (2x 48x48) and how big of a force you want to build is dependent on how good you are at storage and how many other games you want to share that space.

4x8 is the OG table size. 4x6 was too small imho. Kitchen tables are NOT gaming tables.
At one time, miniatures wargames were more like old time train sets than card games. The aim was more or less a permanent installation. With the Hasbro-ification of GW, focus has changed from serious luxury hobby to luxury priced branding and lifestyle nast. In the transition, much of the materials became more disposable, e.g. faction cards with rules that change every 18 months, models that are no longer useable due to no model no rules constraints and so on.
As a result, the entire experience is cheapened. Sure, just getting in, or unable to erect a proper table (4x8 imho or larger), then transforming the kitchen table into a Kill Team table or to play Talisman (game rocked) or even OG Man o'War for instance, is OK, but not optimal by any stretch. GW seems to want to establish a "new normal" to open markets to their luxury branding, without addressing the fact that expectations about what to get from the experience must change to suit. So, no longer is this a serious hobby like building a huge lifelike train display in a basement. Rather, the game has been crammed into a shoebox, for people who live in studio apartments with a family of 8. IMHO, a better ay would have been to market KT and Necromunda and Bloodbowl to those with space and time limits, and to leave 40K and WFB for people with the time and space to afford large installations, such as a proper sized gaming and hobby table.

Anyways, exalted for doing things right.


Dang, better get on the phone to Rick Priestly and tell him he wrote the intro to Rogue Trader all wrong.
The Field of Battle, Rogue Trader page 8 wrote:Six feet by four feet is a fair size; larger tables are difficult to reach across properly. Many gamers (including the author on occasions) improvise by using the dining room table.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in pt
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

Fair size isn’t what was normal back then at least not for people who could afford it. Frankly having trouble believing that few seem to share this experience. Larger tables were always better. During university, friends introduced me to 40k and one was upset that the largest table that I had available was smaller than a 4x8. After uni, everyone I knew had a 4x8. My own table was more than that, about 51” x 106” so that we had room for books and beers at on end…

   
Made in ca
Deranged Necron Destroyer






 jeff white wrote:
Fair size isn’t what was normal back then at least not for people who could afford it. Frankly having trouble believing that few seem to share this experience. Larger tables were always better. During university, friends introduced me to 40k and one was upset that the largest table that I had available was smaller than a 4x8. After uni, everyone I knew had a 4x8. My own table was more than that, about 51” x 106” so that we had room for books and beers at on end…


That's wonderful for you.

Many of us have nowhere near that amount of room, let alone stogare space for when the terrain/models and books need to get put away.


Girl Gamers are the best! 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Table size can be a matter of preference and personal taste.

Generally, you won’t really need bigger than a 6’x4’. That provides decent sized deployment zones, and should only rarely see “stranded” units.

By stranded, I mean units hopelessly out of position and out of range who will spend most of the battle just trying to get into range.

The only way to figure it out is to play. You may find that some armies do better the bigger the table. Tau for instance tend to have enough range on even their basic troops, that you really need to go some to have them outside of range. But any foot slogging army intended for hand to hand might suffer, as the great the width of the table, the more ground they need to cover, all the time being under incoming fire.

There’s also the wider issue of terrain. Planet Bowling Ball is bloody boring. But too much terrain, particularly if it blocks movement and line of sight is just as bad.

I say give it a whirl with what you’ve got, see how it pans out. If you need a larger playing surface, sort out some toppers for your existing table.to increase the available surface area. For the toppers, you ideally want something fairly cheap, and not easily prone to warping. Chipboard fits the bill, and you can add wooden batons around the perimeter to keep it place, and prevent bumps and knocks sending it off the underlying surface. Yes it has a certain texture to it which doesn’t exactly look realistic, but some textured paint and a quick drybrush can easily take care of that.

Now, for me? I’d go the topper route. I’ve a big old farmhouse table in my flat, which is slightly too small for a 6x4 board. But with a topper, which can be done as sections for ease of storing, extending it is an absolute doddle and won’t cost a huge amount of money. And if I need a smaller table (say for a skirmish mission or indeed something like Necromunda) I can do that easily enough, because I don’t need to use the whole available area.

Heck, I could even extend it to an 8x4 table. Not only is that handy for much larger games? But when using it as 6x4 or what have you, I’ve then got space to put books, counters, tape measures dice etc within each reach, and not interfering with the game itself.

For you though, I say for now suck it and see. Don’t make any work for yourself than you absolutely have to. If you find your games satisfying and enjoyable on your table as it is? Job done, happy days. And if you want a larger area, it’s not especially tricky to get that sorted too - depending on your storage options (I’m lucky enough to have a dedicated gaming room)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And speaking of terrain….

If you are square footage restricted? Build High For Happiness.

It’s not exactly completely ideal, but if you have enough terrain to create a second and even third level, with interconnecting walk ways? That can work pretty well, as you don’t have to cram everything in at floor level.

Sure using GW only terrain would make that pricey, but they’re not the only fish in the sea when it comes to 40k suitable terrain. There are lots of options and lots of price brackets. I’d simply say go with anything where you can find pics of the terrain showing GW models for size.

I say this as quite a while back, a friend bought a plastic terrain set that came highly recommended for Necromunda. It was pretty cheap price wise, and in the pics certainly looked the part. But once he received it, he found out it just wasn’t quite the right scale for the models. Whilst not dinky, the Gangs did look like adults running around a kid’s adventure playground. Usable, sure. But not ideal.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/24 00:23:26


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Cobleskill

You can mitigate tall terrain to a certain extent - either don't bring flyers or do what I did, get 10 inch long PVC tubes that can be used as an extended hover arm. And to anyone saying you are modeling to advantage; screw em. Its your table, do what you want. There is a reason it's called home field advantage.

'No plan survives contact with the enemy. Who are we?'
'THE ENEMY!!!'
Racerguy180 wrote:
rules come and go, models are forever...like herpes.
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon





 jeff white wrote:
Fair size isn’t what was normal back then at least not for people who could afford it. Frankly having trouble believing that few seem to share this experience. Larger tables were always better. During university, friends introduced me to 40k and one was upset that the largest table that I had available was smaller than a 4x8. After uni, everyone I knew had a 4x8. My own table was more than that, about 51” x 106” so that we had room for books and beers at on end…

I've seen a lot of 4x8 tables. Some of them were a full 4x8, and some of them were 4x8 with a 4x6 playing surface leaving a foot on teach side for storage, food, drinks etc.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 jeff white wrote:
Fair size isn’t what was normal back then at least not for people who could afford it. Frankly having trouble believing that few seem to share this experience. Larger tables were always better. During university, friends introduced me to 40k and one was upset that the largest table that I had available was smaller than a 4x8. After uni, everyone I knew had a 4x8. My own table was more than that, about 51” x 106” so that we had room for books and beers at on end…


LOL, nope. The game is designed for 4x6 because that's what they play on in the UK, not 5x10 ping-pong tables. Every single "official" tournament event I've ever played was 4x6.

The only real point of 4x8 is to have a spare 1' on each side for rulebooks, refereshments and reserves.

   
Made in pt
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

Dude, you are not right, and just to let you know that it is not just me with this memory, here is a copy paste from a random post that appeared with a quick search as I have no more time to waste on you no matter how great your avatar pic might be:
From: http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?32597

Gilvan Blight's Avatar Join Date
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It started at 4foot by 8foot. Moved to 4x6 in the 90s and is now at 4x4.

I think this was done to make the game more accessible to more people.

My personal gaming table purchased at 4x8 due to the old size requirement.


(((NOTE; the above copied post was in response to a question in 2009 about what size table suits a 1500pt 40k game.)))

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/24 20:06:45


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

LOL, dude, no. Stop digging.

When I was playing 40k, 1500 pts comfortably played on a 4x4.

This was back in 3rd Edition, before 7 editions of constant points deflation.

It was never 4x8, and you're just full of it.

Show an official Games Workshop Grand Tournament from waaay back when GW actually hosted tournaments, and there won't be a single 4x8 board out there. They were always 4x6. I know, because I actually attended them 20+ years ago.

Stop making stuff up about things that were never true. Stop lying.

   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




4x8 was definitely never a requirement. It wasn't completely unheard of, but it wasn't standard and it was never 'required' by any edition.

3rd edition WFB does tout 4x8 (though 4x6 is deemed satisfactory); but also notes that too long a table is pointless, especially if you aren't using hundreds of models.

By the time Rogue Trader comes out, 4x6 is the top end, nothing larger is even mentioned. I don't care about a random post on some forum, the rulebook says otherwise.

2nd I'd have to check what the suggestions were, but given the much smaller forces in 2nd, 4x6 itself is pushing it.

3rd edition 40k refuses to be explicit about the table (or floor, which still gets mentioned as an option, though a bad one), but the missions are clearly designed for 4x6, with 12" deployment zones, 24" apart and several 'go to opposite corner' missions which are very different on a 4x8 than a 4x6

By 5th, 4x6 is _explicitly_ the table size.

If it was normal for you personally, hurrah? But it wasn't a game requirement.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 02:39:46


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

Toofast wrote:
Can't believe you've had several responses and nobody bothered to mention that the "official" size is 60x44 so a 61x46 table would be perfect. That is for 2k games


I can't believe nobodies tried to talk him out of doing smurfs.

   
 
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