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I know Ive seen some of you here. I suspect significant internet outages.

Thoughts are with you and your families tonight and in the coming days.

If you're still online, then know that you are in our thoughts.

Love and friendship from the UK.

Massive respect to the ordinary Ukrainians picking up arms and fighting for their country.

War is hell. :(

And remember while bravery is great, you also have to live to fight again another day.

https://tinyurl.com/ycx4y7vj

While I expect this thread to get locked soon well wishes from here as well. Hopefully it works out. Hopefully you can do what my country did and survive despite losing war(twice).

As somone from a country that also had the unfortunate privilege of being invaded by the painfully clueless armies of Kremlin in order to "denazify" a fictional nazi threat and reestablish obedience to the rulers of Russia, I find this development extremely depressing.

Definitely thoughts with the people living in Ukraine, I can't imagine what they are going through.

We have some extended family (by marriage) that were there and are currently trying to get word of how they are doing. It seems like communication is extremely difficult at the moment.

I know this thread will get shut very soon, so a quick reminder (and I hope the mods don't mind) but there is another forum that was started specifically by Dakka members for discussion of world events. Please check it out, there are bunch of us from Dakka over there
Everything that counts forum (ETC) https://www.etcforums.com/

Can only echo what others have said, to any and all Ukrainian Dakka Dakka members, really hope you are safe and as well as can be in these horrific times.

I'd like to think that maybe, if we all quietly keep any politics out of it, the thread will be allowed for the sake of sympathies and condolences at the present situation which sucks regardless of political leanings.

War is only fun in games where no one really gets hurt and in history when the violence is long past.

Hear hear.

Hoping for the brightest possible future for all!

As a Pole I can relay what we think almost unanimously - if you want to stay and fight, we will sent you weapons and ammunition and assist you however we can in the current political climate, and if you want to escape to safety, we welcome you here and we will take care of you.

Mod note: I am going to leave this topic for now, please take all political discussion to the link provided by Pacific.

Thoughts go out to the people stuck in this horrible situation ongoing right now, following several hobbyists and cosplayers through social media, who have been providing updates on their situation, sharing their anger, grief, but also an amazing display of resilience and fighting spirit.

Wargame Exclusive has suspended sale of their regular products, instead putting up a support Ukraine page with the proceeds going towards Ukrainian charity organisations, with a mini in it for donators after the war: https://wargameexclusive.com/product-tag/ukraine/

If people have any other charity links they know of, might be useful to post those here as well.

I just donated. $100. Thank you for link.

Stay strong

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXZs3e_VSlYgrUuTqm3GgVA/videos

A very good channel for anyone interested in non-media curated on the ground footage being shared. Various fronts and events and aftermaths being shown.

OBVIOUS WARNING: Some images will be distressing but there is no sugar coating a war.

There are entire armor columns were destroyed and abandoned from both sides. T-64, Tunguska, Smerch, and all sorts of assets destroyed or abandoned and other significant hardware.Absolute madness..
This is a snapshot of what a full-on war looks like. :(


Im from southern Poland and my fiancee is from Zamosc in Poland which is a stones throw away from Lviv & Kovel town major population centers in western Ukraine.

We will be organizing a local aid convoy for all the women and children that are fleeing. This will be in the Southampton area of the UK but there are other polish/UK communities around the Uk that are organizing support. Once I have some links from us I will share.

We had a discussion with some Polish aid centers as to what they need -

If you really want to help the best way seems to be to send material aid: food(cans/tins/instant foods), toiletries, towels, blankets, sleeping bags, etc. so I suggest looking for those aid convoys and either sharing what you have or buying some specific things to send.

I am amazed at how well neighboring european countries are taking this insanity.

If this was to happen in the context of north america, it would be like california invading wyoming... Just bonkers.

I wont give cliches of thoughts and prayers, as they are just insulting platitudes.

But I will give validating solidarity. Slava Ukraina.

Russky voyenny korabl, idi na khuy

@Argive. Thanks for link i will check it out. Hoping for calm and law and reason.

Seriously though, this is messed up and I think there needs to be more active role by the international community.

A friend of mine, her husband is Ukrainian and they found out just last night his brother had been killed when the Russians were shelling Melitopol's residential areas. They still don't know whether his mother and sister are safe. I am heartbroken for their family.

The whole thing is pointless and I feel for the Ukrainians out there defending their homeland and those just trying to stay alive. Endless respect for those Ukrainian journalists reporting from Kyiv and elsewhere as the war has been going.

Слава Украине

Yes hopefully the operation will end and Russia will pull back to the inside of the LPR and DPR soon and w can begin the process of rebuilding from this terrible conflict

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Yes hopefully the operation will end and Russia will pull back to the inside of the LPR and DPR soon and w can begin the process of rebuilding from this terrible conflict

Regime compliant comment.

The LPR and DPR do not exist. There is no 'operation' either, there is an invasion.

 Orlanth wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Yes hopefully the operation will end and Russia will pull back to the inside of the LPR and DPR soon and w can begin the process of rebuilding from this terrible conflict

Regime compliant comment.

The LPR and DPR do not exist. There is no 'operation' either, there is an invasion.

e.e

You’re missing the point where I said I hope this ends quickly

Still shocked by the development in Ukraine so far and I hope that the West gets their damn act together and push more towards more concrete support towards Ukraine. Ukraine really is making Putin work for it, I'm hoping they can hold out long enough that Russia has to go back to the bargaining table.

 Grimskul wrote:
Still shocked by the development in Ukraine so far and I hope that the West gets their damn act together and push more towards more concrete support towards Ukraine. Ukraine really is making Putin work for it, I'm hoping they can hold out long enough that Russia has to go back to the bargaining table.

The Russian military is coming out of this looking not very good no matter how it ends and I'm starting to get the sense that the proper logistics were not put in place for a conflict lasting past Russian armor rolling into the country. There's lots of talk about vehicles running out of fuel and Russian troops having no food. Rumors of lackluster commitment to the endeavor about but there's a real hard wall between what's happening and what we're hearing about it. Most western reporters seem holed up in Kiev and are not getting lots of first hand info as the Ukrainian government has focused on fighting rather than talking to the media. Russia is saying very little about the progress of the war. It's hard to know what is and isn't true right now.

The British have been putting out the most info as its gone on.

Unfortunately, Putin doesn't seem interested in changing course even as Western allies have started rallying around some rather hardcore responses targeting Russian banking. I don't think the conflict is going to end soon or without cities becoming brutal fights.

EDIT: Added a White House release on economic sanctions that just came out.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Still shocked by the development in Ukraine so far and I hope that the West gets their damn act together and push more towards more concrete support towards Ukraine. Ukraine really is making Putin work for it, I'm hoping they can hold out long enough that Russia has to go back to the bargaining table.

The Russian military is coming out of this looking not very good no matter how it ends and I'm starting to get the sense that the proper logistics were not put in place for a conflict lasting past Russian armor rolling into the country. There's lots of talk about vehicles running out of fuel and Russian troops having no food. Rumors of lackluster commitment to the endeavor about but there's a real hard wall between what's happening and what we're hearing about it. Most western reporters seem holed up in Kiev and are not getting lots of first hand info as the Ukrainian government has focused on fighting rather than talking to the media. Russia is saying very little about the progress of the war. It's hard to know what is and isn't true right now.

The British have been putting out the most info as its gone on.

Unfortunately, Putin doesn't seem interested in changing course even as Western allies have started rallying around some rather hardcore responses targeting Russian banking. I don't think the conflict is going to end soon or without cities becoming brutal fights.

EDIT: Added a White House release on economic sanctions that just came out.

Yeah, I've noticed that as well. People have pointed out how they went all in on tanks and planes as a sort of blitzkrieg to try and make Ukraine capitulate to shock and awe tactics which explains the surprising lack of infantry support that should have gone with their tank divisions, which is why so many tanks have been taken out by Ukrainian armed forces. They clearly didn't get the 2nd day surrender they were expecting (maybe they thought Ukraine would fold like Afghanistan?) and with the Ukraine PM bolstering morale by staying in Kyiv and showing solidarity with the rest of the Ukraine fighting the Russians, I think Russia have lost the ability to win through demoralizing the Ukrainian people. It's going to continue getting bloodier before this conflict ends. It seems like Putin has a death wish in making this invasion happen based on his rambling, it wouldn't surprise me if he had some kind of health diagnosis that triggered his desire to leave a legacy before biting the bullet.

Russia has not recovered from the Crimea sanctions. They'd only just started getting on the road back where they were when COVID hit and COVID tanked their economy right back down. The Russian population continues to decline and his regime has (supposedly) become increasingly precarious.

Putin's entire perspective is completely irrational to me, but from his POV this might be the very last chance left to assert Russian geopower. He wouldn't have the economy to even attempt it in a few years. That's still irrational if you ask me, but maybe that's where his head is and he wasn't expecting the solidarity of western countries in retaliating this quickly (it took a year for sanctions to really come down after Crimea). He probably hoped Ukraine would touple in a few days, he could depose the current government and put a more friendly one in it's place and then withdraw before the West really came to any mind of how to react.

 Grimskul wrote:


Yeah, I've noticed that as well. People have pointed out how they went all in on tanks and planes as a sort of blitzkrieg to try and make Ukraine capitulate to shock and awe tactics which explains the surprising lack of infantry support that should have gone with their tank divisions, which is why so many tanks have been taken out by Ukrainian armed forces. They clearly didn't get the 2nd day surrender they were expecting (maybe they thought Ukraine would fold like Afghanistan?) and with the Ukraine PM bolstering morale by staying in Kyiv and showing solidarity with the rest of the Ukraine fighting the Russians, I think Russia have lost the ability to win through demoralizing the Ukrainian people. It's going to continue getting bloodier before this conflict ends. It seems like Putin has a death wish in making this invasion happen based on his rambling, it wouldn't surprise me if he had some kind of health diagnosis that triggered his desire to leave a legacy before biting the bullet.

It definitely seems like they overextended. They're also not properly securing their flanks and just barreling down the main roads while the Ukrainians can just take side roads and flank their columns.

They were definitely banking on the Ukrainians being stunned and hoping they wouldn't fight back, but now they've gotten smashed.

Sounds like the Russians have lost a LOT of their elite troops too. I've heard of multiple transport planes with paratroopers being shot down, and that's basically a death sentence for all onboard.

Logistical chains are said to be a nightmare as well.

How long before high level resignations from commanders in Moscow?

 LordofHats wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Still shocked by the development in Ukraine so far and I hope that the West gets their damn act together and push more towards more concrete support towards Ukraine. Ukraine really is making Putin work for it, I'm hoping they can hold out long enough that Russia has to go back to the bargaining table.

The Russian military is coming out of this looking not very good no matter how it ends and I'm starting to get the sense that the proper logistics were not put in place for a conflict lasting past Russian armor rolling into the country. There's lots of talk about vehicles running out of fuel and Russian troops having no food. Rumors of lackluster commitment to the endeavor about but there's a real hard wall between what's happening and what we're hearing about it. Most western reporters seem holed up in Kiev and are not getting lots of first hand info as the Ukrainian government has focused on fighting rather than talking to the media. Russia is saying very little about the progress of the war. It's hard to know what is and isn't true right now.

The British have been putting out the most info as its gone on.

Unfortunately, Putin doesn't seem interested in changing course even as Western allies have started rallying around some rather hardcore responses targeting Russian banking. I don't think the conflict is going to end soon or without cities becoming brutal fights.

EDIT: Added a White House release on economic sanctions that just came out.

I have noticed the lack of information compared to other recent conflicts; I have a suspicion that western media have been asked / have decided not to show anything that could be used by the Russians to aid their invasion (either as intelligence or propaganda).

Massive respect to the Ukrainian people, they really seem to have rallied together in defiance of this outrage. I just hope that a way can be found out of this mess with the least amount of bloodshed (but unfortunately I think “least” isn’t going to be very small at this stage.)

Just a note on people looking to help, I'd recommend donating to reputable international groups like the International Red Cross.

There are already a lot of shady 'help Ukraine' emails popping up in my inbox.