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Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One



United Kingdom

He's fun with Crimson Haze and the Blood Scythe for kicking out a surprising number of attacks. But he's still got bad synergy and is too expensive for what he does I think.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





moonsmite wrote:
I would like to argue that the destroyer lord should be Rated B or even B+

Been using him recently as a back field disrupted in Nephrek with the nano casket and war scythe. and has been my most consistent top preforming unit my army. For 129 points, feel he is a steal and worth every penny.

had games where he came down, got unlucky and died in over watch. came back and then proceeded to tie up multiple units the following turn and kill multiple support characters and still be on full wounds at the end of the game.

one game, he only managed to kill a few characters but got killed 3 turns in a row by a shield captain charging him. Though would argue, the threat he gave out stopped a shield captain killing other stuff for 3 turns.

Not arguing he is as good as the staple overlord/immotek these days, though i do consider him now in every list

Nah man.... I say this as someone who recently made a D.Lord conversion, and therefore he is in almost all of my lists - he's just pointed really badly, and therefore isn't worth it. You have to make him your Warlord and give him a relic to even make him usable.

A few small tweaks (like buff working on all friendly Dynasty units, 20-30 point reduction and WS2+) would put him in B+ or even A tier, but that hasn't happened.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






His weapon skill 3+ and low attacks kind of kills him for me.

   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Interesting tournament coming up. I'm not sure can I attend as that would be 2nd tournament in same weekend. 2 days driving 120km one way is bit "ugh". But boy could this be fun. Unusual restrictions:

a) single codex only
b) no LOW
c) no detachment duplication
d) max 3 of same FOC slot
e) max 1 dataslate except max 3 for troop/dedicated transport
f) 1750 pts

Single codex obviously helps necrons. Max 1 slot hurts a bit with anti tank especially as I don't have destroyers. No LOW is nice though. Here's current idea keeping in mind my model limitations

Spoiler:


overlord w/void scythe, veil of darkness
cryptek w/chronometer
10xtesla immortal
9xtesla immortal
5xtesla immortal
10xlychguard w/shields
6xtomb blades(all shield vanes, 4xignore cover, 2xinv save, twin tesla)
8xscarab swarm
6xwraith
doomsday ark
doom scythe




Originally had been hoping to have nightbringer by then but seems I got cheated on that sale :-/

Don't have destroyers as said. 6 tomb blades is also max I have as are immortals maxed out. I do have 24 warriors, command barge(or annihilation since it's magnetized) amd triach stalker I could throw into mix.

Alternative would be drop 3 scarabs and swap overlord for command barge

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/13 17:32:37


https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/15/tneva82-lothlorien-goes-to-war-against-rohan/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

The Destroyer Lord is a good beatstick, its just that compared to other factions' beatsticks he's a little subpar, and he doesn't provide that much synergy either.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in cn
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm




Bit of a noob question guys but what is Imotekh's Artefact? On the Artefacts page it tells that he is already carrying on yet I can't spot it on his datasheet.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

elook wrote:
Bit of a noob question guys but what is Imotekh's Artefact? On the Artefacts page it tells that he is already carrying on yet I can't spot it on his datasheet.


Might be a turn of phrase. Immotekh doesn't have any 'relics' counting towards your limit.

He has a few pieces of unique wargear. But no 'relics'.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/15 14:10:09


Bedouin Dynasty: 9000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4k pts
The Emperor's Finest 3k pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





How would you og about bringing a shot load of warriors in a 2k list?

Om thinking at least a 100.

As always, force multipliers, support and transportation will be key to figure out.

My meta is luckily free of knights.

Things I'm playing around with:

  • Single or double battalion


  • Sautekh with Zahndrekh+Obyron to slingshot units forward. This requires a third HQ if I want Immortal Pride for moral and to bring the Veil


  • A single Night Scythe


  • Deceiver


  • Mephrit


  • One or more Ghost Arks


  • Monolith? Don't really see that happening


  • Illuminor Szeras - would bring some sorely needed AT


  • But how to fit it best together. Some items are mutually exclusive, ie Mephrit and Sautekh HQs.

    Sautekh warriors could advance and still shoot, and the extra CP coming in could make up for not having autopass morale. Perhaps going without the third HQ and having Oby teleporting make up for no Veil.


    Mephrit would almost require Deceiver and perhaps also a NS. With the Veil that should reliably get 2-3 units in RF turn one, with one more coming turn two.


    Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
       
    Made in de
    Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






    Germany

    elook wrote:
    Bit of a noob question guys but what is Imotekh's Artefact? On the Artefacts page it tells that he is already carrying on yet I can't spot it on his datasheet.


    Named characters have unique weapons which count as their own relics. Imotekh has the staff of the destroyer.
       
    Made in gb
    Irked Necron Immortal




    elook wrote:
    Bit of a noob question guys but what is Imotekh's Artefact? On the Artefacts page it tells that he is already carrying on yet I can't spot it on his datasheet.


    It's just generic wording for all special characters, it's to stop you giving them a relic. It doesn't count as your one free relic though.
       
    Made in us
    Numberless Necron Warrior




    torblind wrote:
    How would you og about bringing a shot load of warriors in a 2k list?

    Om thinking at least a 100.



    Other than already having the models, or a fun theme, is there a reason for wanting warriors? They are inferior against most, if not all enemy units compared to our other units.
       
    Made in de
    Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






    Germany

    2x20 novokh warriors with chronotek, ghost ark, anrakyr, and the phaerons will plus disruption fields and blood rites can be a nasty surprise.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/16 13:53:38


     
       
    Made in no
    [DCM]
    Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





    barontuman wrote:
    torblind wrote:
    How would you og about bringing a shot load of warriors in a 2k list?

    Om thinking at least a 100.



    Other than already having the models, or a fun theme, is there a reason for wanting warriors? They are inferior against most, if not all enemy units compared to our other units.


    That pretty much said it. Came across the models cheaply second hand it's a thematic iconic build.

     p5freak wrote:
    2x20 novokh warriors with chronotek, ghost ark, anrakyr, and the phaerons will plus disruption fields and blood rites can be a nasty surprise.


    I had my mind set solely on the shooting power, bit this is interesting indeed! Will definitely try something along those lines. Transporting Anrakyr is the usual hickup, bit running him or deceivering him m ight get him into action soon enough

    Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
       
    Made in gb
    Angry Blood Angel Assault marine




    Leeds UK

    Hi Everyone. I am playing against Deathwatch at 1250 points tomorrow. What do you think of the below list? I find 1250 really tricky for Necrons as you really need to choose between wraiths and destroyers.

    Thanks in advance
    Spoiler:


    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [73 PL, 1247pts] ++

    + No Force Org Slot +

    Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Mephrit


    + HQ +

    Catacomb Command Barge [9 PL, 147pts]: Artefact (Mephrit): The Voltaic Staff, Staff of Light, Tesla Cannon
    . Warlord: Warlord Trait (Mephrit): Merciless Tyrant

    Illuminor Szeras [8 PL, 120pts]

    + Troops +

    Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

    Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: Gauss Blaster, 10x Immortal

    Necron Warriors [12 PL, 220pts]: 20x Necron Warrior

    + Fast Attack +

    Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
    . 6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

    + Heavy Support +

    Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

    ++ Total: [73 PL, 1247pts] ++

    Created with BattleScribe

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/16 17:24:46


     
       
    Made in no
    [DCM]
    Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





    torblind wrote:
    barontuman wrote:
    torblind wrote:
    How would you og about bringing a shot load of warriors in a 2k list?

    Om thinking at least a 100.



    Other than already having the models, or a fun theme, is there a reason for wanting warriors? They are inferior against most, if not all enemy units compared to our other units.


    That pretty much said it. Came across the models cheaply second hand it's a thematic iconic build.

     p5freak wrote:
    2x20 novokh warriors with chronotek, ghost ark, anrakyr, and the phaerons will plus disruption fields and blood rites can be a nasty surprise.


    I had my mind set solely on the shooting power, bit this is interesting indeed! Will definitely try something along those lines. Transporting Anrakyr is the usual hickup, bit running him or deceivering him m ight get him into action soon enough


    So running some math, two full Novokh units, one fighting twice and buffed to S5, Anrakyr nearby, and a lord, exploding 6s warlord trait, between them will put 17 wounds on a knight, kill almost 100 Ork boys or kill 78 genestealers.

    Of course logistics department is going to have a say in the matter.

    Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
       
    Made in fr
    Trazyn's Museum Curator





    on the forum. Obviously

    barontuman wrote:
    torblind wrote:
    How would you og about bringing a shot load of warriors in a 2k list?

    Om thinking at least a 100.



    Other than already having the models, or a fun theme, is there a reason for wanting warriors? They are inferior against most, if not all enemy units compared to our other units.


    They are actually pretty deadly if used right. Warriors are one of the few necron units that can actually heavily benefit from synergies and combos.
    A 20 unit blob of warriors backed up by a Ghost Ark, a chronotek, and an Overlord with Eternal Pride (for the moral immunity) can be obnoxiously hard to remove, and don't underestimate the lethality of 60 gauss shots (40 from warriors, 20 from Ark), especially if there's a charge afterwards. The only real problem is that its bloody expensive to build.

    What I have
    ~4100
    ~1660
    : LM

    Westwood lives in death!
    Peace through power!

    A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

     
       
    Made in us
    Numberless Necron Warrior




     CthuluIsSpy wrote:
    barontuman wrote:
    torblind wrote:

    They are actually pretty deadly if used right. Warriors are one of the few necron units that can actually heavily benefit from synergies and combos.
    A 20 unit blob of warriors backed up by a Ghost Ark, a chronotek, and an Overlord with Eternal Pride (for the moral immunity) can be obnoxiously hard to remove, and don't underestimate the lethality of 60 gauss shots (40 from warriors, 20 from Ark), especially if there's a charge afterwards. The only real problem is that its bloody expensive to build.


    Math (attached and below) says otherwise, as has been shown many times.

    Warriors vs Gauss Immortals
    25.93 23.56 GEQ
    20.74 19.63 GEQ in cover
    11.67 19.63 MEQ
    15.56 15.70 MEQ in cover
    03.89 03.93 TEQ
    03.89 03.93 TEQ in cover

    Immortal benefits are more pronounced at T5, less pronounced at T6, T7, and dramatically more pronounced at T8. Higher armor saves always work in favor of the immortals. Telsa immortals are generally better than Gauss Immortals, and destroyers are better than Immortals.

    To scale it you're going to have trouble keeping your overlord within range of more than 1 or 2 warrior units, so moral is going to be a problem.

    So really, I'm not under-estimating their lethality at all.
    [Thumb - Screen Shot 2019-05-16 at 3.03.09 PM.png]

       
    Made in dk
    Deranged Necron Destroyer






    torblind wrote:
    So running some math, two full Novokh units, one fighting twice and buffed to S5, Anrakyr nearby, and a lord, exploding 6s warlord trait, between them will put 17 wounds on a knight, kill almost 100 Ork boys or kill 78 genestealers.

    Of course logistics department is going to have a say in the matter.

    I'm curious to see the math you used, I posted earlier that the effect of Crimson Haze was *1,25 with Novokh but without MWBD the actual effect is /36*44=1,222222222 and with MWBD it is /36*43=1,194444444 without Novokh or MWBD the effect is /36*42=1,166666667. I don't think it's reasonable to take Crimson Haze in such a Warrior-heavy build

    Shooting:
    RF, Lord: 20*2/3*2/6/2/6*7=2,592592593
    RF, Lord, MWBD: 40/6*5/6/2/6*7=3,240740741

    0 MWBD Shooting: 2*2,592592593=5,185185185
    1 MWBD Shooting: 2,592592593+3,240740741=5,833333333
    2 MWBD Shooting: 2*3,240740741=6,481481481

    Melee
    Anarkyr, Novokh, Crimson Haze, Lord: 20*2/36*44/9*8/6/3/6*7=2,816643804
    Anarkyr, Novokh, Crimson Haze, Lord, MWBD: 20*2/36*43/36*35/6/3/6*7=3,010688157
    Anrakyr, Novokh, Crimson Haze, Lord, Fight Twice, S5: 20*2*2/36*44/9*8/3/3/6*7=11,26657522
    Anrakyr, Novokh, Crimson Haze, Lord, Fight Twice, S5, MWBD: 20*2*2/36*43/36*35/3/3/6*7=12,04275263

    0 MWBD Melee: 2,816643804+11,26657522=14,08321902
    1 MWBD Melee: 2,816643804+12,04275263=14,85939643
    2 MWBD Melee: 3,010688157+12,04275263=15,05344079

    Total

    0 MWBD: 5,185185185+14,08321902=19,26840421
    1 MWBD: 5,833333333+14,85939643=20,69272977
    2 MWBD: 6,481481481+15,05344079=21,53492227

    Assuming one unit without MWBD fails its charge and the other suffers two casualties before charging in with MWBD and that you have to keep 4 Warriors out of combat to stay in range of Anrakyr and that 4 Warriors die in retaliatory strikes from the Knight before you get to fight again (you'll remove 3 of the 4 Warriors keeping you in range of Anrakyr, leaving only the model that is in range and removing one model that was in range to fight) you'll have:

    5,833333333+(0,7+0,65)/2*12,04275263=13,96219136

    4 CP to cause 5-9 extra damage to a Knight in melee seems worth it, I'll keep that in mind if I use my Novokh Warrior list again, it's still a losing battle to use 700 pts and 4CP to deal 200 pts of dmg within 12", at that kind of range without an effective delivery system you'd want 7-1200 pts of damage, which is what you'll get against Orks or Genestealers, which the list is pretty good against, it is super effective against Harlequins, all those S4 attacks without AP is an amazing counter, not only do you outrange them, you also out-fight them, their only chance is mobility and assassination.

    For Warriors vs. Gauss Immortals I'd rather compare 11 Immortals to 15 Warriors to keep the pts the same, that shows what the units are good against.

    Against GEQ Immortals deal 12% less damage, against GEQ in cover 10% more, against Orks 10% more, against Orks in cover 47% more, against MEQ or Chimeras 30% more, against MEQ in cover 47% more, against Leman Russes or Knights with 5++ 96% more, against Knights with 4++ 47% more.

    Immortals do 27% less damage in melee.

    In terms of defence they have the same toughness so we can view it in terms of AP.

    Against AP+1 (cover no AP) Immortals are 47% more durable against AP-0 10% more durable, against AP-1 2% less durable, against AP-2 8% less durable, against AP -3 12% less durable, against MWs, AP-4 or higher or against AP-2 or higher while within 3" of a Chronometron 27% less durable.

    In terms of board control and army coherency Immortals take up 27% less space and their maximum unit size is 50% smaller, this also limits Reanimation depending on enemy army composition. After doing this math I'm liking Gauss Immortals a lot better, I thought they were bad, but knowing that they are better than Warriors in a ton of cases makes me want to take them, given the relative success I've had with Warriors. The math has also high-lighted just how much better Teslamortals are compared to Warriors, although I'm not going to do it right now because of the issues with comparing Assault 2 and RF 1.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/17 07:53:40


     
       
    Made in fi
    Decrepit Dakkanaut





    First 2k game coming up tomorrow. AT department still light(another doomsday ark is on it's way at least). Here's my list.

    Spoiler:

    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [88 PL, 1380pts] ++

    + No Force Org Slot +

    Dynasty Choice
    . Dynasty: Nephrekh: Dynastic Code: Translocation Beams

    + HQ +

    Cryptek [5 PL, 95pts]: Chronometron, Staff of Light

    Overlord [6 PL, 93pts]: Warscythe

    + Troops +

    Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

    Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

    Necron Warriors [12 PL, 132pts]
    . 12x Necron Warrior: 12x Gauss Flayer

    Necron Warriors [12 PL, 132pts]
    . 12x Necron Warrior: 12x Gauss Flayer

    + Elites +

    Lychguard [16 PL, 280pts]: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 10x Lychguard

    + Fast Attack +

    Tomb Blades [10 PL, 198pts]
    . Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
    . . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
    . Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
    . . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
    . Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
    . . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
    . Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
    . . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
    . Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
    . . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
    . Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
    . . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine

    + Flyer +

    Doom Scythe [11 PL, 150pts]: Death Ray, 2x Tesla Destructor

    ++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [38 PL, 620pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Overlord [6 PL, 94pts]: Staff of Light

    + Fast Attack +

    Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]
    . 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm: 3x Feeder Mandibles

    Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]
    . 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm: 3x Feeder Mandibles

    Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 288pts]
    . 6x Canoptek Wraith: 6x Vicious Claws

    + Heavy Support +

    Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]: Doomsday Cannon, 2x Gauss Flayer Array


    And here's my opponents list:

    Spoiler:

    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [47 PL, 719pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Captain [6 PL, 124pts]: 5. Gift of Foresight, Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Angel's Wing (replaces jump pack), Thunder hammer, Warlord

    Lemartes [7 PL, 100pts]

    + Troops +

    Scout Squad [4 PL, 65pts]
    . Scout: Boltgun
    . Scout: Boltgun
    . Scout: Boltgun
    . Scout: Heavy bolter
    . Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

    Scout Squad [4 PL, 83pts]
    . Scout: Sniper rifle
    . Scout: Sniper rifle
    . Scout: Sniper rifle
    . Scout: Missile launcher
    . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

    Scout Squad [4 PL, 83pts]
    . Scout: Sniper rifle
    . Scout: Sniper rifle
    . Scout: Sniper rifle
    . Scout: Missile launcher
    . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

    + Elites +

    Death Company [18 PL, 195pts]: Jump Pack
    . Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
    . Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
    . Death Company Marine: Inferno pistol, Power sword
    . Death Company Marine: Inferno pistol, Power sword
    . Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Hand flamer
    . Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
    . Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword

    + Fast Attack +

    Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 69pts]
    . Scout Biker: Twin boltgun
    . Scout Biker: Twin boltgun
    . Scout Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Twin boltgun

    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [77 PL, 1280pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Captain Tycho [5 PL, 85pts]

    Sanguinary Priest [4 PL, 69pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

    + Troops +

    Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
    . Scout: Combat knife
    . Scout: Combat knife
    . Scout: Combat knife
    . Scout: Combat knife
    . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

    Tactical Squad [5 PL, 94pts]
    . 3x Space Marine
    . Space Marine (Special weapon): Meltagun
    . Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-melta

    Tactical Squad [5 PL, 83pts]
    . 3x Space Marine
    . Space Marine (Special weapon): Flamer
    . Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-flamer, Power sword

    + Elites +

    Death Company Dreadnought [9 PL, 141pts]: Furioso fist (pair), Magna-grapple, Meltagun, Storm bolter

    Death Company Dreadnought [9 PL, 143pts]: Blood talons, Heavy flamer, Meltagun, Smoke launchers

    Furioso Dreadnought [9 PL, 144pts]: Frag cannon, Furioso fist, Heavy flamer, Smoke launchers

    Furioso Dreadnought [9 PL, 132pts]: Frag cannon, Furioso fist, Smoke launchers, Storm bolter

    + Heavy Support +

    Baal Predator [8 PL, 156pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon
    . Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

    + Dedicated Transport +

    Razorback [5 PL, 89pts]: Storm bolter, Twin heavy bolter

    Razorback [5 PL, 89pts]: Storm bolter, Twin heavy bolter

    ++ Total: [124 PL, 1999pts] ++


    My list is more or less fixed. If for nothing else it pretty much contains nearly all my models I have atm and all with at least 3 colours and bases done! (command barge and triarch stalker are waiting for paint) so not much I can do on that department(plus would feel dirty changing list after opponent showed his list). How worried I should be? Lots of vehicles is worry and deep strike charging death company and no overwatch captain are bummer...(had hoped to have nightbringer as counter assault unit but that plan failed).

    Any suggestions tactics wise?

    https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/15/tneva82-lothlorien-goes-to-war-against-rohan/<- lotr painting blog

    12 factions for Lord of The Rings
    11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
    5265 pts
    5150 pts
    ~3200 pts Knights

     
       
    Made in no
    [DCM]
    Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





     vict0988 wrote:
    torblind wrote:
    So running some math, two full Novokh units, one fighting twice and buffed to S5, Anrakyr nearby, and a lord, exploding 6s warlord trait, between them will put 17 wounds on a knight, kill almost 100 Ork boys or kill 78 genestealers.

    Of course logistics department is going to have a say in the matter.

    I'm curious to see the math you used, I posted earlier that the effect of Crimson Haze was *1,25 with Novokh but without MWBD the actual effect is /36*44=1,222222222 and with MWBD it is /36*43=1,194444444 without Novokh or MWBD the effect is /36*42=1,166666667. I don't think it's reasonable to take Crimson Haze in such a Warrior-heavy build

    Shooting:
    RF, Lord: 20*2/3*2/6/2/6*7=2,592592593
    RF, Lord, MWBD: 40/6*5/6/2/6*7=3,240740741

    0 MWBD Shooting: 2*2,592592593=5,185185185
    1 MWBD Shooting: 2,592592593+3,240740741=5,833333333
    2 MWBD Shooting: 2*3,240740741=6,481481481

    Melee
    Anarkyr, Novokh, Crimson Haze, Lord: 20*2/36*44/9*8/6/3/6*7=2,816643804
    Anarkyr, Novokh, Crimson Haze, Lord, MWBD: 20*2/36*43/36*35/6/3/6*7=3,010688157
    Anrakyr, Novokh, Crimson Haze, Lord, Fight Twice, S5: 20*2*2/36*44/9*8/3/3/6*7=11,26657522
    Anrakyr, Novokh, Crimson Haze, Lord, Fight Twice, S5, MWBD: 20*2*2/36*43/36*35/3/3/6*7=12,04275263

    0 MWBD Melee: 2,816643804+11,26657522=14,08321902
    1 MWBD Melee: 2,816643804+12,04275263=14,85939643
    2 MWBD Melee: 3,010688157+12,04275263=15,05344079

    Total

    0 MWBD: 5,185185185+14,08321902=19,26840421
    1 MWBD: 5,833333333+14,85939643=20,69272977
    2 MWBD: 6,481481481+15,05344079=21,53492227

    Assuming one unit without MWBD fails its charge and the other suffers two casualties before charging in with MWBD and that you have to keep 4 Warriors out of combat to stay in range of Anrakyr and that 4 Warriors die in retaliatory strikes from the Knight before you get to fight again (you'll remove 3 of the 4 Warriors keeping you in range of Anrakyr, leaving only the model that is in range and removing one model that was in range to fight) you'll have:

    5,833333333+(0,7+0,65)/2*12,04275263=13,96219136

    4 CP to cause 5-9 extra damage to a Knight in melee seems worth it, I'll keep that in mind if I use my Novokh Warrior list again, it's still a losing battle to use 700 pts and 4CP to deal 200 pts of dmg within 12", at that kind of range without an effective delivery system you'd want 7-1200 pts of damage, which is what you'll get against Orks or Genestealers, which the list is pretty good against, it is super effective against Harlequins, all those S4 attacks without AP is an amazing counter, not only do you outrange them, you also out-fight them, their only chance is mobility and assassination.

    For Warriors vs. Gauss Immortals I'd rather compare 11 Immortals to 15 Warriors to keep the pts the same, that shows what the units are good against.

    Against GEQ Immortals deal 12% less damage, against GEQ in cover 10% more, against Orks 10% more, against Orks in cover 47% more, against MEQ or Chimeras 30% more, against MEQ in cover 47% more, against Leman Russes or Knights with 5++ 96% more, against Knights with 4++ 47% more.

    Immortals do 27% less damage in melee.

    In terms of defence they have the same toughness so we can view it in terms of AP.

    Against AP+1 (cover no AP) Immortals are 47% more durable against AP-0 10% more durable, against AP-1 2% less durable, against AP-2 8% less durable, against AP -3 12% less durable, against MWs, AP-4 or higher or against AP-2 or higher while within 3" of a Chronometron 27% less durable.

    In terms of board control and army coherency Immortals take up 27% less space and their maximum unit size is 50% smaller, this also limits Reanimation depending on enemy army composition. After doing this math I'm liking Gauss Immortals a lot better, I thought they were bad, but knowing that they are better than Warriors in a ton of cases makes me want to take them, given the relative success I've had with Warriors. The math has also high-lighted just how much better Teslamortals are compared to Warriors, although I'm not going to do it right now because of the issues with comparing Assault 2 and RF 1.


    I punched it all into dice-hammer.com , but surely I could account for the math regardless. Which calculation specifically?

    Simply dividing dmg output with and without Crimzon Haze reproduces your numbers.

    Of course you'd need to put it into context of other force multiplying mechanisms you have available, but a 22% dmg increase certainly is worth considering?

    EDIT: The calculation:



    There it is, 17 wounds on an knight, T8/3+, 77 dead GS at T5/5+ or 85 dead guardsmen or 97 dead orks. 20 Novokh warriors buffed to S5, MWBD, fighting twice (gave them 4A), with a lord and Anrakyr watching over them, and 20 other warriors, also pitching in but of course can't benefit from stratagems. The logistics involved in this is of course staggering, but this is the theoretical upper limit.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/17 08:12:31


    Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
       
    Made in dk
    Deranged Necron Destroyer






    tneva82 wrote:
    First 2k game coming up tomorrow. AT department still light(another doomsday ark is on it's way at least). Here's my list.

    Spoiler:

    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [88 PL, 1380pts] ++

    + No Force Org Slot +

    Dynasty Choice
    . Dynasty: Nephrekh: Dynastic Code: Translocation Beams

    + HQ +

    Cryptek [5 PL, 95pts]: Chronometron, Staff of Light

    Overlord [6 PL, 93pts]: Warscythe

    + Troops +

    Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

    Immortals [8 PL, 150pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

    Necron Warriors [12 PL, 132pts]
    . 12x Necron Warrior: 12x Gauss Flayer

    Necron Warriors [12 PL, 132pts]
    . 12x Necron Warrior: 12x Gauss Flayer

    + Elites +

    Lychguard [16 PL, 280pts]: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 10x Lychguard

    + Fast Attack +

    Tomb Blades [10 PL, 198pts]
    . Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
    . . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
    . Tomb Blade: Shadowloom
    . . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
    . Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
    . . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
    . Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
    . . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
    . Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
    . . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
    . Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
    . . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine

    + Flyer +

    Doom Scythe [11 PL, 150pts]: Death Ray, 2x Tesla Destructor

    ++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [38 PL, 620pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Overlord [6 PL, 94pts]: Staff of Light

    + Fast Attack +

    Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]
    . 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm: 3x Feeder Mandibles

    Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]
    . 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm: 3x Feeder Mandibles

    Canoptek Wraiths [18 PL, 288pts]
    . 6x Canoptek Wraith: 6x Vicious Claws

    + Heavy Support +

    Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]: Doomsday Cannon, 2x Gauss Flayer Array


    And here's my opponents list:

    Spoiler:

    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [47 PL, 719pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Captain [6 PL, 124pts]: 5. Gift of Foresight, Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Angel's Wing (replaces jump pack), Thunder hammer, Warlord

    Lemartes [7 PL, 100pts]

    + Troops +

    Scout Squad [4 PL, 65pts]
    . Scout: Boltgun
    . Scout: Boltgun
    . Scout: Boltgun
    . Scout: Heavy bolter
    . Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword

    Scout Squad [4 PL, 83pts]
    . Scout: Sniper rifle
    . Scout: Sniper rifle
    . Scout: Sniper rifle
    . Scout: Missile launcher
    . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

    Scout Squad [4 PL, 83pts]
    . Scout: Sniper rifle
    . Scout: Sniper rifle
    . Scout: Sniper rifle
    . Scout: Missile launcher
    . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

    + Elites +

    Death Company [18 PL, 195pts]: Jump Pack
    . Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
    . Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
    . Death Company Marine: Inferno pistol, Power sword
    . Death Company Marine: Inferno pistol, Power sword
    . Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Hand flamer
    . Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
    . Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword

    + Fast Attack +

    Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 69pts]
    . Scout Biker: Twin boltgun
    . Scout Biker: Twin boltgun
    . Scout Biker Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Twin boltgun

    ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [77 PL, 1280pts] ++

    + HQ +

    Captain Tycho [5 PL, 85pts]

    Sanguinary Priest [4 PL, 69pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

    + Troops +

    Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
    . Scout: Combat knife
    . Scout: Combat knife
    . Scout: Combat knife
    . Scout: Combat knife
    . Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

    Tactical Squad [5 PL, 94pts]
    . 3x Space Marine
    . Space Marine (Special weapon): Meltagun
    . Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-melta

    Tactical Squad [5 PL, 83pts]
    . 3x Space Marine
    . Space Marine (Special weapon): Flamer
    . Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-flamer, Power sword

    + Elites +

    Death Company Dreadnought [9 PL, 141pts]: Furioso fist (pair), Magna-grapple, Meltagun, Storm bolter

    Death Company Dreadnought [9 PL, 143pts]: Blood talons, Heavy flamer, Meltagun, Smoke launchers

    Furioso Dreadnought [9 PL, 144pts]: Frag cannon, Furioso fist, Heavy flamer, Smoke launchers

    Furioso Dreadnought [9 PL, 132pts]: Frag cannon, Furioso fist, Smoke launchers, Storm bolter

    + Heavy Support +

    Baal Predator [8 PL, 156pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon
    . Two heavy bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

    + Dedicated Transport +

    Razorback [5 PL, 89pts]: Storm bolter, Twin heavy bolter

    Razorback [5 PL, 89pts]: Storm bolter, Twin heavy bolter

    ++ Total: [124 PL, 1999pts] ++


    My list is more or less fixed. If for nothing else it pretty much contains nearly all my models I have atm and all with at least 3 colours and bases done! (command barge and triarch stalker are waiting for paint) so not much I can do on that department(plus would feel dirty changing list after opponent showed his list). How worried I should be? Lots of vehicles is worry and deep strike charging death company and no overwatch captain are bummer...(had hoped to have nightbringer as counter assault unit but that plan failed).

    Any suggestions tactics wise?

    The game looks skewed in your favour. Do not worry about his vehicles too much, it's not that many, focus down his Bikes, then his Infantry. If he puts his Dreadnoughts in a big blob you can use a unit of Warriors to Advance 11" and stay 1" away, now your opponent is going to charge, kill your guys, the Dreadnoughts that don't kill your guys move 1", the one that does moves 4" and the rest move 6", compare that to the alternative of moving their max movement, charging and piling in. Don't move your Scarabs into positions where they can get charged, don't use them to kill things, their job is to take objectives and get into combat with shooting units, not to do damage. Avoid the Dreadnoughts if possible with your Wraiths, use them to take out Bikes and use consolidation moves to pile them into several shooting vehicles, charge turn 1 with the Stratagem by placing them as far forward as possible. Use Warriors against Death Company, then Tactical Marines, then against Vehicles. Use Tesla (including Destructors on the DScythe) against Bikes, then Death Company, then scouts, then vehicles. Don't split your forces, try to make the battle take place somewhere on the battlefield where there is less terrain, put your Warriors in a screen as far forward as possible but far enough away that your opponent will need to roll a 10 after moving forward and attempting to charge (19" away from Dreadnoughts, 23" away from Death Company, keep your Tesla at max range. Use your AP-5 weapons against his Baal Predator first, then any priority Dreadnoughts, then Razorbacks, finally against anything far away. Get the Veil of Darkness to pull a unit out of combat and still shoot with it. Play for the objectives!
       
    Made in fi
    Decrepit Dakkanaut





    Good tips. Didn't think I might be favoured(he was wanting to try dreads, I just put what models I have!).

    For death company I expect them to deep strike and do 3d6" charge so staying away from them is going to be hard.

    And if not deep strike he can do the move before game so that's basically 12+d6+12+2d6/3d6 charge...

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/17 08:55:00


    https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/15/tneva82-lothlorien-goes-to-war-against-rohan/<- lotr painting blog

    12 factions for Lord of The Rings
    11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
    5265 pts
    5150 pts
    ~3200 pts Knights

     
       
    Made in no
    [DCM]
    Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





    tneva82 wrote:
    Good tips. Didn't think I might be favoured(he was wanting to try dreads, I just put what models I have!).

    For death company I expect them to deep strike and do 3d6" charge so staying away from them is going to be hard.


    I second that.. that was pretty solid.

    Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
       
    Made in de
    Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






    Germany

    DC are glass cannons, they hit hard, but die like flies to tesla. Screen with scarabs, let them die to the DC attacks, then kill them with tesla.
       
    Made in fi
    Decrepit Dakkanaut





    That's what the scarabs are there if they don't die in first turn. Though pretty hard to create 10" bubble around everything valuable with that few scarabs especially now they can charge over them

    https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/15/tneva82-lothlorien-goes-to-war-against-rohan/<- lotr painting blog

    12 factions for Lord of The Rings
    11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
    5265 pts
    5150 pts
    ~3200 pts Knights

     
       
    Made in de
    Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






    Germany

    That's why I never leave home without at least 2x6 scarabs.
       
    Made in fr
    Trazyn's Museum Curator





    on the forum. Obviously

    Is it worth taking an outrider detachment purely for scarabs? I'm finding 3 FA slots in a battalion is too small for a scarab screen + damage dealers. Its why scarabs should really be a troops choice, as every other faction has their screening unit there.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/17 11:15:14


    What I have
    ~4100
    ~1660
    : LM

    Westwood lives in death!
    Peace through power!

    A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

     
       
    Made in fi
    Decrepit Dakkanaut





    Well it also gave me extra CP and allowed to split scarabs into 2 units(more flexible screen). Albeit cost me HQ tax but...well I ran out of models I could use anyway. Especially as I wanted at least somewhat painted model as it's going to be held in gaming event so could attract some onlookers. Better PR with at least somewhat painted models

    But 1 CP, more flexibility to screens. That's what outrider gives me.

    (could also give fun stuff with dynasty codes but as I'm strickler that different dynasties needs to be identifiable visually easily...)

    https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/15/tneva82-lothlorien-goes-to-war-against-rohan/<- lotr painting blog

    12 factions for Lord of The Rings
    11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
    5265 pts
    5150 pts
    ~3200 pts Knights

     
       
    Made in fr
    Trazyn's Museum Curator





    on the forum. Obviously

    Hmm I should try that then. I generally prefer mono detachments for book keeping reasons, but if they are all the same faction then it probably won't get too complicated.

    If all detachments are from the same faction, there's no keyword conflict, right? Like, no silly crap where Novokh Detachment A can't provide buffs to Novokh detachment B?

    What I have
    ~4100
    ~1660
    : LM

    Westwood lives in death!
    Peace through power!

    A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

     
       
    Made in de
    Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






    Germany

    Novokh works with novokh no matter what detachments they are in.
       
     
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