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So while I'm a huge fan of the older editions of 40k for many reasons (cheaper to find/buy rules, easier to learn and play, ect.) it seems that GW is pushing players with older, 1st born space marine armies into that direction. Here's why I see it that way-

In a recent trip to my local GW/Warhammer store the only space marine units available were Primaris marines. While the first-born marines are still in the current codex, I really think they may be removed by the next one leaving just Primaris marine units as the only options.

And after reading and looking at the leaked HH rules floating around the internet, some of you may be thinking that's fine and that you'll convert your first born Space Marine army into a 30k HH force instead with the new edition coming out. Except in the leaked Legion Astarties codex book there are a number of units that worked in both 40k and 30k that are no longer in the 30k leaked codex. For instance, the standard Legion Dreadnought used to be in the old HH Age of Darkness legion book, but that's been removed from the new leaked codex. You now only have the choice of the Contemptor dread as an Elites choice and a couple of the other non-traditional dreadnoughts as Heavy options. You might also notice that the standard terminators (Indomitus pattern) are also removed from the HH book. Yep, apparently the ancient, tactical dreadnought armor is apparently so ancient that it missed the HH era. But wait, there's more... I also didn't see an option to bring the standard (Phobos pattern) Land Raider.

What does this really mean?

Well, it means that while you may have spent a small fortune on space marines throughout the years, GW would rather you discarded them and instead bought some shiny new ones if you would like to stay with the current rules. OR, you can simply say, "I'm done trying to keep up!" and instead jump on the growing bandwagon of those of us who have found new joy in playing older editions of the 40k game or perhaps an alternative game that you can still use your models in. Personally, I've found a new joy in going back to play 5th edition 40k. It is by no means a perfect edition, but given that I was able to help friends get copies of the rules and codex books off eBay for $10 a rulebook and $5 a codex, we're having a ton of fun at a fraction of the cost.

So based on conspiracies, leaked playtest rules, and fear, anyone who has non-Primaris should play older editions? Mk.

 Gert wrote:
So based on conspiracies, leaked playtest rules, and fear, anyone who has non-Primaris should play older editions? Mk.

Pretty much... However, there are a ton of players (myself included) out there with existing armies that feel disengaged from the current edition and where the game may be headed. For those of us who feel that way there is an alternative to nerd-rage quit and dumping your army on eBay.

Haven't been following conspiracies, leaks, etc, but looking from the outside (haven't bought a 40k product in a long time) as soon as Primaris Marines appeared I just took it for granted that within a decade all marines would be Primaris.

Is this a fringe belief?

I have harbored dreams for years of fixing up and playing with my old 40k armies again, but I always assumed it would be with Grimdark Future or some other ruleset. Especially since GW has proved once again that even when they build an improved, streamlined 40k ruleset it will only be a matter of years before it bloats just like previous editions.

but neither First Born nor Primaris are rocking the top end of major events (well till the "pushed" codex 2.0 arrives and even then its a coin flip as Primaris on launch were non optimal)

And a cross 30k/40k sales will mean the First Born will survive at least 10th, maybe not all of the range but id wager a fair bit, especially anything with cross sales ability

With the state of things the second half of that title is correct on its own : /

GW is definitely pushing the Primaris models hard, but at the same time firstborn TrueMarines are plenty viable rules-wise. What does it mean for the future of firstborn? I dunno. But GWs handling of the franchise has been so off putting recently that I'm not giving them anymore money right now. I will play my TrueMarines because I bought their codex at the start of 9th ed, but beyond that I don't know.

I know my Nids just got a nice new codex too, but I'm not going to buy it.

They have proper rules for the current edition I don't see how that’s pushing you to play older editions. You'd have an argument if we where talking about Renegades & Heretics, or Elysians or Corsairs. But Space Marines? Even looking at "Firstborn" only gives you one of the largest and newest range in the game with continuing rules support.

Moar dirty trickses … older editions are the light and the way.

Reckon i'm just gonna take the Intercessor data sheet, cross out the word Intercessor and write Tactical above it, then use that to play with my firstborn models, if it comes to it. Don't think anyone would mind.

I'll play my 1st born as such as long as they have rules - codex, Legends, etc.
And then I'll just proxy them as Primaris should they ever be fully dropped.
I don't play in tourneys & I don't play with people who'd mind so I'll be fine.

If my Firstborn get squatted I'll just play them as count-as-whatever-Primaris-unit they resemble the most.

There's no way in hell that I'd allow GW to unmake all the money and time I've spent on my Firstborn, and even less chance that I'd "reward" their scummy behaviour buying the new Primaris-kits.

Why do you think the hype around 30k 2.0 is so much right now.

40k is imo the worst its ever been in terms of rules, even worse then the gak show that was late 7th ed.
9th ed 40k has had all its soul ripped out from it and become a bland boring iteration of itself.

In a world of 31 flavors, 9th ed 40k is the ice cream scoop water bucket.

Ok, I'll just put them on the shelf next to my other legends and stick a different unit in the list. GW has been eliminating options from codexes for 25 years so if that puts you off, I'm not sure why you're still playing. Somewhere I have my 3E space wolves codex that allowed them to take one variety of Leman Russ tank, which was removed from their next codex...

Toofast wrote:
Ok, I'll just put them on the shelf next to my other legends and stick a different unit in the list. GW has been eliminating options from codexes for 25 years so if that puts you off, I'm not sure why you're still playing. Somewhere I have my 3E space wolves codex that allowed them to take one variety of Leman Russ tank, which was removed from their next codex...

There is a big difference between GW Squating a model that no one bought and basically died out vs squatting the entire first born line.

Given the option my marines have I don't think I would want to play the GK codex, which people maybe okey to play against, and vice versa I don't think anyone would let me play with the book, I would like to play with. A full squat of GK non primaris is, at worse an edition away. If GW removed terminators as an option from GK armies, I would just stick to playing Lumineth Lords in AoS.

I still play with my full firstborn SW army in 9th and so far I never had the feeling that my army was either left behind or that I needed the primaris stuff.

I feel weird mixing First Born and Primaris in the same army.

If you use older (1st born) space marines, you might as well play an older edition of 40k...

Why, yes, and i do.

I own zero primaris models and i never will. they are the GW answer to loosing the chapter house studio law suit. i understand the reason and i even rather like the design as sort of a true scale maximus style power armor mark.

But the lore for them and the 9th edition game are flaming piles of GAK and i will no longer be involved with either.

My DIY marine chapter dating from 5th ed has enough minis to do whatever i wish to do with them in 5th edition rules and i own all the old codexes so i do not need GW anymore.

 Eilif wrote:
Haven't been following conspiracies, leaks, etc, but looking from the outside (haven't bought a 40k product in a long time) as soon as Primaris Marines appeared I just took it for granted that within a decade all marines would be Primaris.

Is this a fringe belief?

I have harbored dreams for years of fixing up and playing with my old 40k armies again, but I always assumed it would be with Grimdark Future or some other ruleset. Especially since GW has proved once again that even when they build an improved, streamlined 40k ruleset it will only be a matter of years before it bloats just like previous editions.

This, the writing is on the wall. It's just a matter of time, be it next edition or three editions away. It's coming though.

Torchbearer Fleets are some of my favourite rules in the game. I never had an interest in Custodes or marines who weren't being used as Chambers Militant of the Inquisition until I read those rules.

IMHO, any model is only as good as the stories you can use it to tell, and the Firstborn / Primaris divide became a story when the Torchbearer rules were printed.

That's fine.
On the very odd occasion that I play 40k, I only play 5th ed.

But I play it with my eldar and my GK. I got rid of most of the marines a while ago.