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How do!

So, this is something that just popped into my head. And despite setting the thought out, I’ve no particular dog in this race. Rather I felt it an interesting discussion topic which might provoke new and interesting discussion.

And it all stems from this very specific Bad Boy, and some obscure background I’d swear blind I read but can’t cite as I can’t remember where I read it.



Yup. The very original Screamer Killer. The Super Tough Tyranid Dreadnought equivalent bio-construct. And there’s something about this specific take which is odd. As a living, breathing creature? It doesn’t look at all viable. How does it feed itself? What is its evolutionary niche?

Yet, when we strip the Tyranids down to their very very basics? It….fits. The Hive Mind (outside of a couple of specific creatures) isn’t aiming for self sustaining species. Everything it vomits forth from whatever passes as a bio-forge is, first and foremost, a weapon.

The Screamer Killer in this most basic form isn’t even a composite creature. From its claws to its plasma scream? It’s one creature bio-engineered to be an ambulatory wrecking ball. No, it can’t turn its head. That’s a silly design isn’t it? Well….no. Not really. Not when you keep in mind the Hive Mind acts as an overseer, and so every other Tyranid nearby acts as CCTV in a sense. When I thought about it that way? Why would a Screamer Killer need a distinct head on a neck? It’s ickle Bros and Sisters are there for that. The Screamer Killer is there to run straight at stubborn foes and give them a good squelching.

And from there? Further thoughts began to coalesce. Outside of Warriors, Gaunts and Tyrants (and their direct adapted cousins)? Why should Tyranid Bio-forms have necks and heads the way other organic life does? Why does a Biovore need to look around? Why do ever larger bio-forms need ever larger heads? Or even distinct heads at all? Why not evolve so it’s actual central nervous system is buried deep in the body? By all means have external sensory apparatus like eyes and feelers. But the processing thinky bit? Why the head? Most Tyranids aren’t designed or intended long enough to actually need to eat?

This is where the obscure “I really wish I could remember where I read it, but I assure you it wasn’t fan fiction” came from. It basically set out that most bio-forms simply didn’t have a digestive tract. The theory being in a purely warrior form it was wasteful. For things fighting close up jaws and teeth are of course another weapon at its disposal. But actually stopping to feed? That’s for Rippers.

And so, I put to you Dear Dakkanauts. There is an argument for a full on, from the ground up, reworking to the Tyranid range. Make the most specialist weapon beasts look like walking weapons. Keep the six limbs by all means. As we can reasonably say the Hive Mind finds that optimal and hasn’t stuck to it for nostalgia.

No bonce bigger than a Warrior’s, unless it’s a Hive Tyrant or Zoanthope or other ‘highly psychic because that’s it’s weapon” thing. And even on that. The Maleceptor is close to my concept. Just….not need for such a big face.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And from there? Further thoughts began to coalesce. Outside of Warriors, Gaunts and Tyrants (and their direct adapted cousins)? Why should Tyranid Bio-forms have necks and heads the way other organic life does? Why does a Biovore need to look around? Why do ever larger bio-forms need ever larger heads? Or even distinct heads at all? Why not evolve so it’s actual central nervous system is buried deep in the body? By all means have external sensory apparatus like eyes and feelers. But the processing thinky bit? Why the head? Most Tyranids aren’t designed or intended long enough to actually need to eat?

There's a user on this board who made some excellent conversions very much along those lines. I remember a redesigned Genestealer with weirdly lanky, extra-jointed limbs, and Termagants where the guns stuck out of the head cavity. Maybe someone else remembers who it was; I can't find the thread again.

I think it's a great idea from a fluff standpoint- it is a bit odd that there's such a stylistic difference between 'creatures' and 'vehicles' when as far as the hive mind is concerned, everything from the smallest phage cell to the largest hive ship is a Tyranid organism. For the same reason, the visual language of all Tyranids having six limbs similarly makes no sense; they're masters of genetic modification and that's an arbitrary limit.

Of course, from a buying-and-painting-toy-soldiers standpoint, there's something to be said for alien antagonists that look like alien antagonists, and have cohesive design language that links them together. According to Jes Goodwin, the whole reason Tyranids were given guns integrated into their arm stumps rather than protruding directly from the body was simply that it looked more natural. GW is, of course, a model company first and foremost.

But I'd love to see an army where everything is an engineered weapon. In a setting otherwise comprised of anthropomorphic factions, it would definitely stand out.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
This is where the obscure “I really wish I could remember where I read it, but I assure you it wasn’t fan fiction” came from. It basically set out that most bio-forms simply didn’t have a digestive tract. The theory being in a purely warrior form it was wasteful. For things fighting close up jaws and teeth are of course another weapon at its disposal. But actually stopping to feed? That’s for Rippers.

3rd Ed codex, Hormagaunt dissection at the very back of the book.

If 40k was more grounded, I'd agree.
If GW could manage a good redesign without hiking costs or delaying other things more in need of an update, I'd agree.
If I thought the current Nids looked bad, I'd agree.

But the first and last thing are definitely not true, and I highly doubt the second thing would be true if push came to shove.

Remember-40k is a game/hobby/IP/media franchise. Its purpose is NOT to be realistic, or even necessarily to make sense, though being consistent is generally good. Its purpose for GW is to make money, its purpose for us is to be fun.

How does it feed itself?

It goes in to a bio pool, absorbs nuritient that are needed, then fights till it expires. tyranid swarms come in eat what is left of him. Go in to the bio soup, disolve someone else eats. If tyranids win the end result is a space straw sucking up the bio pools.

What is its evolutionary niche?

It is a screamer killer. Its niche is kill till you expire.

Why does a Biovore need to look around?

Because a large part of its DNA is based on ork DNA and orks happen to have necks.

There is an argument for a full on, from the ground up, reworking to the Tyranid range. Make the most specialist weapon beasts look like walking weapons. Keep the six limbs by all means. As we can reasonably say the Hive Mind finds that optimal and hasn’t stuck to it for nostalgia.

No.

Tyranids get jerked around in different directions by GW often enough as is.

Tilting everything into the bin and starting over just means losing everything, blindly hoping it all comes back and accepting what sounds like a really awful fluff redirection and a completely untenable model rebuild.

 JNAProductions wrote:
If 40k was more grounded, I'd agree.
If GW could manage a good redesign without hiking costs or delaying other things more in need of an update, I'd agree.
If I thought the current Nids looked bad, I'd agree.

But the first and last thing are definitely not true, and I highly doubt the second thing would be true if push came to shove.

Remember-40k is a game/hobby/IP/media franchise. Its purpose is NOT to be realistic, or even necessarily to make sense, though being consistent is generally good. Its purpose for GW is to make money, its purpose for us is to be fun.

On your third point? I do want to stress I’m not slagging off the existing range. This thread is, from my perspective, purely a debate topic. I like the current Nid range. But there are now thinks in my Brian’s that they could be made to look very, very alien.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
If 40k was more grounded, I'd agree.
If GW could manage a good redesign without hiking costs or delaying other things more in need of an update, I'd agree.
If I thought the current Nids looked bad, I'd agree.

But the first and last thing are definitely not true, and I highly doubt the second thing would be true if push came to shove.

Remember-40k is a game/hobby/IP/media franchise. Its purpose is NOT to be realistic, or even necessarily to make sense, though being consistent is generally good. Its purpose for GW is to make money, its purpose for us is to be fun.

On your third point? I do want to stress I’m not slagging off the existing range. This thread is, from my perspective, purely a debate topic. I like the current Nid range. But there are now thinks in my Brian’s that they could be made to look very, very alien.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I just think that, while a design shift would be cool, it wouldn't be nearly cool enough to justify itself.

I would love to see an inmediate redesign of the whole 40K line to fit my personal tastes.

Also a pile of GW shares will be a nice bonus.

In the actual real world I doubt GW is planning any major shift for tiranids design in the near future.

That screamer killer truely is the most badass model to ever grace the tabletop.

Personally I'd just be happy to see Tyranids take center stage in the next edition.

OP just seems like tortured logic to retroactively justify archaic technical design choices as artistic design choices.

It doesn't have a neck because that would have been one more part to produce, and a more complicated kit.

I don't think the background states that full sensory input is managed by the Hivemind. Even if it did, your ideas are kind of dumb-adjacent. What happens when the Carnifex is first through a wall, and no other creature has eyes on the interior of the position it just barged into? What happens when Synapse creatures are struck down amid an otherwise winnable engagement?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Do Tyranids need a ground up redo?

Nope.

I'm pretty happy with the general 'nid aesthetic as-is. I'm fine with them having heads/necks because it's hard to design a headless predator that doesn't look kind of goofy or stiff. Picture, if you will, any of the pokemon designs that lack a distinct head: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pinsir_(Pok%C3%A9mon)

Having a toothy mouth on a head on a neck makes it easy for me to picture tyranids biting into things, and that's aesthetically a good thing for an army all about hunger; even if the actual eating is technically done by specific feeder organisms.

My main two aesthetic wishlist items for tyranids:
1. I kind of wish more of them had a lithe and/or snakey look about them. Less of the chonky, beetle-y big bugs; more raveners/xenomorphs. Making the tails longer would go a long way towards this, and I think I"ll probably greenstuff some of my new gaunts to have xenomorph tails before I paint them.

2. I wish it didn't look like they were "holding" their guns. Especially on the infantry (looking at you, termagaunts). I'm not sure how I'd do that exactly. Maybe just lengthen the bits connecting the left "hand" to the right and show those limbs being used for mobility? Chest guns? Tail guns? Mouth guns? I don't know. Just something so it doesn't look like my gaunst are holding rifles.

The creature that fire plasma with its mouth needs a neck to be able to turn around its mouth and thus actually be able to hit stuff with the plasma.

I agree that it makes practical sense, but then if we applied practical sense to 40k it wouldn't be 40k anymore. Keeping an overall design language for nids makes them look more unified as a race and looks better as an army on the table. Sure it doesn't really make a lot of sense that the hive mind has concluded that six limbs and chitin plates are ideal for EVERY situation but it keeps the army cohesive rather than having them look like a messy hodge-podge of The Thing concept art rejects. Also crazy weird mutations are Chaos's thing. Presumably part of the hive minds design concept is that because it's organic it follows some rules of the natural world.

More recent fluff is those creatures can eat and digest to feed themselves, if we are to extrapolate on the snippet where a Termagamt is eating a dude. Hormagaunts are also noted as being able to asexually reproduce and grow to maturity on their own, which means nom noms. Overall it makes more sense logistically; organisms would ptherwise require separate organisms to feed them, or need to carry all the calories they'd potentially need from the onset.

Perhaps more importantly there is biting, which by numerous account Tyranids do quite often. The mouth is very much another weapon in itself. Sensory apparatus, on the other hand, are relevant because feeding individual organisms all the sensory input they need means they are even more effectively neutered by being severed from synapse organisms, already a potential weak point the Hive Mind would no doubt be aware of. The central nervous system being in the head of organisms IRL is so it can be next to all those senses and the large number of neurons connected to them. This is both more biologically efficient, relevant IRL, and in 40k those fractions of a second in reflex speed can very much matter.

Larger organisms having bigger skulls also makes sense, as their robust physiology both supports and necessitates thicker bone to protect its brain. The skull also needs to have a good degree of strength as a mounting for the jaw muscles, which we know are quite powerful. It is even theorized that during human evolution a mutation which weakened our jaw muscles allowed the skull to become thinner and prove room for larger brains--big nids don't need the larger brains but dem jaw muscles gotta attach somewhere!