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Every example of an autogun I can think of, at least on a model, looks like it’s been bolted together by an ork and are treated as the weapon of the ramshackle force.

I’m not denying the obvious advantages of a laser rifle over a weapon that fire bullets but you would have thought that in the 41st millennium they could make something that looks at least as smart as an ak47 where as your average cultist looks like they are armed with a car exhaust.

What are you looking at? Because yeah...they haven't looked at all like junk.

Except maybe Cawdor, I guess?

Chaos cultists, where else do you see them?

mrFickle wrote:
Chaos cultists, where else do you see them?

Outside of Necromunda gangs, you've got the SoB (Novitiates & Priests/Missionaries) plus the old FW Guard & Traitor Guard kits.

To me they look like a fantasy drawing of what an automatic weapon would have looked like in the First World War or almost even steam punk. Why is the body of the gun so big, compared to the modern rifles used today.

I don’t really know anything about guns but is the idea that these autoguns are much more powerful than 21k weapons? I thought they were basically the same.

I didn’t know that SOB used them tbh but I would have thought that the imperium would have an STC of a nice lightweight, high precision automatic rifle as opposed to something that looks like it couldn’t hit the side of a barn

A lot of weapons are oversized due to how GW uses scale. Those guns are probably light weight and small. I doubt ,pst Guardsmen run around with Lasguns the size of their torso and a half.

AFAIK, the autoguns in the 40k universe are chambered for 10mm caliber... so, yeah, a fully auto rifle firing a .408 Chey Tac equivalent better be built like a brick gakhouse because by IRL standards it would be considered a medium machine gun aka a crew-served support weapon.

 AtoMaki wrote:
the autoguns in the 40k universe are chambered for 10mm caliber...

The FW books state the Agripinaa pattern is "long 8.25".

beast_gts wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:
the autoguns in the 40k universe are chambered for 10mm caliber...

The FW books state the Agripinaa pattern is "long 8.25".

That's still a very chunky caliber to fire on full auto.

TheBestBucketHead wrote:A lot of weapons are oversized due to how GW uses scale. Those guns are probably light weight and small. I doubt ,pst Guardsmen run around with Lasguns the size of their torso and a half.

The new models seem to have slightly slimmer lasguns, likely due to GW being better at making models

mrFickle wrote:Every example of an autogun I can think of, at least on a model, looks like it’s been bolted together by an ork and are treated as the weapon of the ramshackle force.

I’m not denying the obvious advantages of a laser rifle over a weapon that fire bullets but you would have thought that in the 41st millennium they could make something that looks at least as smart as an ak47 where as your average cultist looks like they are armed with a car exhaust.

The majority of units that use autoguns either don't care to maintain them like the Orcs or are too poor to really do so like the various cults or gangs so they get ramshackle.

Autoguns are the Ak47 of 40k. They're cheap, nasty but they work well enough for the irregular forces, such as PDF or Cults, to use them as their primary weapon.

I think there’s some decent looking ones on gene stealer cultists. Also the necromunda ones, in particular the Escher gangs, looks alright.

mrFickle wrote:
Every example of an autogun I can think of, at least on a model, looks like it’s been bolted together by an ork and are treated as the weapon of the ramshackle force.

I’m not denying the obvious advantages of a laser rifle over a weapon that fire bullets but you would have thought that in the 41st millennium they could make something that looks at least as smart as an ak47 where as your average cultist looks like they are armed with a car exhaust.

Autoguns in necromunda are quite varied and look pretty solid quality.

 AtoMaki wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:
the autoguns in the 40k universe are chambered for 10mm caliber...

The FW books state the Agripinaa pattern is "long 8.25".

That's still a very chunky caliber to fire on full auto.

A big driver in 40k pdf weapons doctrine is 'will this kill an ork'.
Calibres that are oversized to modern sensibility are standard for a reason.

Based on the RPGs they're often fractionally superior to lasguns (the ability to fire on full auto, for example, as well as a lower needed tech base and the potential for armour piercing ammo). But they're not better ENOUGH to outweigh the advantage of 60 shots per power pack, near immunity to jamming and misfire and all the logistics advantage that brings....

Not to mention that, in the RPG, the Lasgunner can pretend to have AP rounds or special rounds via overcharging their gun for better AP/Damage at the cost of extra ammo consumption/loss of reliability. It's a risk, but it's better than going to their Quartermaster and being told they got no special issue bullets for an autogun

locarno24 wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:
the autoguns in the 40k universe are chambered for 10mm caliber...

The FW books state the Agripinaa pattern is "long 8.25".

That's still a very chunky caliber to fire on full auto.

A big driver in 40k pdf weapons doctrine is 'will this kill an ork'.
Calibres that are oversized to modern sensibility are standard for a reason.

I know. I'm just saying that chunky ammo obviously needs a chunky gun so the autoguns looking so awkwardly buff is well-justified in-setting.

Also, I can't comment on the RPG attributes because despite participating in many games (including several Only War campaigns) I don't think I have ever used a lasgun or an autogun with any of my characters. My memories are cloudy but I can distantly remember dabbing on heretics while hip-firing an autocannon, and that covers all my SP/Las weapon experience.

1d10+3 for both weapons, the Autogun can fire a 10 rounds full auto burst, both weapons can fire a 3 rounds burst or a single shott.

The Autogun has 3-4 types of ammo you can get for it, while the Lasgun is Reliable, and can be Overcharged and Overloaded


Those are the Only War stats. The Lasgun does energy damage, the Autogun does Impact.

 Bobthehero wrote:
1d10+3 for both weapons

Ah. That's why I haven't used them, then .

In my experience, most people switched to the Triplex. Personally I tended to play Stormtroopers, so I started with a Hotshot, I've seen very few lasguns, but apparently a character can built to do some nasty damage with one.

It's just... generally also possible to apply the same build to either Hotshots or Triplex, so you can be even more dangerous, if you really like your rifleman archetype like I do.

 Bobthehero wrote:
1d10+3 for both weapons, the Autogun can fire a 10 rounds full auto burst, both weapons can fire a 3 rounds burst or a single shott.

The Autogun has 3-4 types of ammo you can get for it, while the Lasgun is Reliable, and can be Overcharged and Overloaded


Those are the Only War stats. The Lasgun does energy damage, the Autogun does Impact.

I found this so weird. It’s something fantasy flight stuck to. The lasgun is stated to have a full auto setting in the fluff but it never got that setting in the fantasy flight games. Anyway as I recall the autogun had the benefit of more weapon mods as well. You could put that ammo switch thing and load it with three types of round (say man stopper, dumdum and regular) and swap on the fly depending on the situation. One of my chars used the autogun extensively because of how versatile it was. The one thing it really lacked was damage. I guess you could put a one shot grenade launcher/flamer/shotgun on it for a bit extra damage when you needed to. But then you might as well just have quick draw and carry a bolt pistol or something for the same effect. Also a lasgun could do the same.

The autogun did have the useful ability to use full auto to pin a target. I think it was called suppression fire. It was ridiculously effective at locking down scary enemies for a time.

I assume they interpreted the full auto as a short burst?

Lasguns could do similar without an attachment with power settings, and their Hammer of the Emperor talent tree allowed you to lower the enemy's dodge by up to 30, depending on your degrees of success. Makes for a handy weapon against Eldars, of all things. And then next Lasgun talent on the tree gave you more damage/degrees of success. At this point you could do some nasty damage, with just a basic Lasgun, especially if you took Mighty Shot on top of it all. But it's a lot of talents and BS increase.

mrFickle wrote:
Every example of an autogun I can think of, at least on a model, looks like it’s been bolted together by an ork and are treated as the weapon of the ramshackle force.

I’m not denying the obvious advantages of a laser rifle over a weapon that fire bullets but you would have thought that in the 41st millennium they could make something that looks at least as smart as an ak47 where as your average cultist looks like they are armed with a car exhaust.

Much like the Lasgun, they tend to be equipment for less/uneducated folks. And so they’re robust enough designs to hold up to rough handling and shonky, if any, maintenance.

Me? I wouldn’t arm troops with them if there was any choice in the matter. The humble Lasgun is just superior in nearly every way. No moving parts to have to clean and grease. No need to brush out the barrel every few rounds/after each engagement. Ammo isn’t just lighter, but rechargeable. And when new power packs are needed, that’s just one thing, not “magazine, casing, Freedom seed, primer, gunpowder”. So I suspect you go to be pretty poor to have to turn to the Autogun en masse.

Sisters may get a bye here, as once fully fledged they’ll be shooting Boltguns, known for a vicious kickback, so using Autoguns for training has an extra reason.

Hmm. There’s a thought. Has anyone come across a background reference as to the life expectancy / safe limit of recharges for Lasgun power packs? We can safely assume it’s finite, not just because of modern batteries eventually slowly decaying, but we’re explicitly told the “Chuck it in a fire” recharge method shortens its effective life span.

The Imperium must have some really beefy fires to dump enough energy into a power pack for a HEL…

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Sisters may get a bye here, as once fully fledged they’ll be shooting Boltguns, known for a vicious kickback, so using Autoguns for training has an extra reason.

Well that just sorted out the one reason I felt the Novitiates were a bit off (otherwise love the models), that is an excellent reason, cheers. They are oddly unrefined compared to most Sisters equipment but still better looking then most of the cultist autoguns.

Once fully fledged, they will be firing boltguns from within powered armour. Recoil is rather irrelevant when the servos kick in. If the armour is damaged to the point it loses power to recoil stabilization, then the wearer probably has more problems than a bit of rowdy recoil.

It might help a bit with weapon maintenance and understanding physical ammo weapons i guess. But even the ballistic trajectory of bolt ammo will be fundamentally different to conventional rounds, so even that doesn't help much.

I apologise for spoiling your nice idea :(

An Autogun would have more in common with a Bolter than a Lasgun. Also, again, much cheaper to source than a Lasgun. Any planet can make an Autogun, not so much a Lasgun.

 Gert wrote:
An Autogun would have more in common with a Bolter than a Lasgun. Also, again, much cheaper to source than a Lasgun. Any planet can make an Autogun, not so much a Lasgun.

True. On the other hand, normal human bolters are sufficiently available, that the novitiates could just use them instead. Simplifies the logistics at least.

Not really, not in the same way. For the Sororitas, the Bolter is a holy weapon that a Sister must prove herself worthy of wielding. The dogma behind the weapon is more important than pretty much everything else.
It doesn't really matter if an Arbitrator or Guard officer has a Bolter because its not a weapon of faith in their hands. The same thing applies to Space Marines in many cases.

According to the books by Abnett, they are just as if not more powerful than Las-rifles. Given the fact as others have stated that they are essentially oversized slug throwers, no matter what non-power armor defenses you may be wearing, a flurry of 10mm rifle rounds are still going to ruin your day. Just because they go bang instead of Pew doesn't mean they're junk.

They can still do horrible things. Their larger cousins the Auto-cannons and Assault cannons are both slug throwers, and easily some of the most devastating weapons in the galaxy.

mrFickle wrote:
Every example of an autogun I can think of, at least on a model, looks like it’s been bolted together by an ork and are treated as the weapon of the ramshackle force.

I’m not denying the obvious advantages of a laser rifle over a weapon that fire bullets but you would have thought that in the 41st millennium they could make something that looks at least as smart as an ak47 where as your average cultist looks like they are armed with a car exhaust.

Whenever I am troubled by questions such as these I turn to the 2nd Ed Wargear book:

"The autogun is comparable to a twentieth-century automatic rifle both in appearance and operation, though the introduction of caseless ammunition and plasteel components has increased the rate of fire and durability."

So don't lose sleep - the 40K autoguns can be as quasi-futuristic as your fanfiction wants them to be.