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This is from reddit:

There is a Succubus and Haemy equivalent to the Master Archon. Haemy gains an ability to return to life like Saint Celestine, a nasty once-per-battle relic (D3 mortals on 2+, the unit loses Aura abilities and can't benefit from Auras till your next turn) and his Warlord Trait lets him ressurect Wracks, Super-Succubus consolidates at 6' and does not have to finish closer to an enemy models (which is crazy ass balls) brutal Artifact Weapon (+2 S, -4 AP, D2, wounds 6+ ignore invulnerable saves) and a Warlord Trait that allows her to switch out her normal Attacks for 3+number of enemy models 2' around her.

Bloodbraids return - as Trueborn, one unit, they have WS 2+, bonus Ld and upgraded Blade Artists (6+ to wound gain -1 AP, bloodbraids gain -3 AP), wracks also get one unit like this Haemoxytes - +1 Inv save, bigger Ld and once per phase, they ignore damage from a first failed saving throw.

So basically blade artists is a 6+ to wound (I assume in meele) gains -1 ap... a little meh.

 Imateria wrote:
It's incredibly dumb to see almost all weapon choices for Scourge are now Heavy with no way to counter it, at least Shredders are good.

Its a tremendous boost to their damage regardless of Heavy. And they also now have a 5++

 Imateria wrote:
It's incredibly dumb to see almost all weapon choices for Scourge are now Heavy with no way to counter it, at least Shredders are good.

Yeah, I'm curious to see how this plays out.

If the heavy weapons become the exclusive domain of units that don't take the penalty
Or
People let themselves get trapped into playing gun line with a glass cannon infantry army
Or
People decide to try to soak the hit penalty and play DE 'properly'

I'm leaning towards a lot of people going for option #1. The psychology of avoiding penalties is hard to resist.

 Galas wrote:
This is from reddit:

There is a Succubus and Haemy equivalent to the Master Archon. Haemy gains an ability to return to life like Saint Celestine, a nasty once-per-battle relic (D3 mortals on 2+, the unit loses Aura abilities and can't benefit from Auras till your next turn) and his Warlord Trait lets him ressurect Wracks, Super-Succubus consolidates at 6' and does not have to finish closer to an enemy models (which is crazy ass balls) brutal Artifact Weapon (+2 S, -4 AP, D2, wounds 6+ ignore invulnerable saves) and a Warlord Trait that allows her to switch out her normal Attacks for 3+number of enemy models 2' around her.

Bloodbraids return - as Trueborn, one unit, they have WS 2+, bonus Ld and upgraded Blade Artists (6+ to wound gain -1 AP, bloodbraids gain -3 AP), wracks also get one unit like this Haemoxytes - +1 Inv save, bigger Ld and once per phase, they ignore damage from a first failed saving throw.

Well and I thought that Master Archon was scary...

And also, I gues Blade Artist is simply just -1 AP if you roll 6 to wound then (with few exceptions).

Tyel wrote:
I realise its good to join the imperial overlords - but to avoid being hypocritical, I'm going to jump in and say 100 points for 4 18" S8 AP-4 D6+2 damage shots feels slightly crazy.

I guess they'll be kept slightly in check a bit by the Heavy rule - but still, 14" fly move. Going to be able to hide and blast most things.

T3 with a 4+ and 1 wound. You basically MUST hide them either in reserve or behind LoSB terrain, meaning they are going to be hitting on a 4+ with no aura buffs. It's not nearly as efficient as it looks at first glance.

I assume it's Eradicators your comparing them to. Eradicators are absurd because they shoot twice, with any and all benefits you can apply via traits or auras with somehow more range and then afterwards your looking at T5 3+ 3 wound chonky boys that an apothecary can res/heal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blade artists seems really strong on an army with basic infantry that has 3 attacks hitting on 2's lol. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't that an obsession trait from rise of the phoenix? I mean, just gaining that as another faction bonus is pretty solid.

TBH Blade Artists sees pretty weak compared with other faction rules like Angels of Death, Ere we go, mob rule and dakkadakka, Acts of Faith, Res Protocols and Living Metal, etc... (But even worse than weak, boring)

That doesnt mean that the army won't play well. Death Guard have basically no subfaction trait and the anti-soup Necron bonus is pretty lackluster and as armies they work just fine.

 Galas wrote:
This is from reddit:

There is a Succubus and Haemy equivalent to the Master Archon. Haemy gains an ability to return to life like Saint Celestine, a nasty once-per-battle relic (D3 mortals on 2+, the unit loses Aura abilities and can't benefit from Auras till your next turn) and his Warlord Trait lets him ressurect Wracks, Super-Succubus consolidates at 6' and does not have to finish closer to an enemy models (which is crazy ass balls) brutal Artifact Weapon (+2 S, -4 AP, D2, wounds 6+ ignore invulnerable saves) and a Warlord Trait that allows her to switch out her normal Attacks for 3+number of enemy models 2' around her.

Bloodbraids return - as Trueborn, one unit, they have WS 2+, bonus Ld and upgraded Blade Artists (6+ to wound gain -1 AP, bloodbraids gain -3 AP), wracks also get one unit like this Haemoxytes - +1 Inv save, bigger Ld and once per phase, they ignore damage from a first failed saving throw.

So basically blade artists is a 6+ to wound (I assume in meele) gains -1 ap... a little meh.

The entire idea of a haemi power draining a chief apothecary at the start of the phase, denying him his license to practice medicine gives me immense joy. It's literally one ancient evil surgeon totally owing another armies surgeon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:
TBH Blade Artists sees pretty weak compared with other faction rules like Angels of Death, Ere we go, mob rule and dakkadakka, Acts of Faith, Res Protocols and Living Metal, etc... (But even worse than weak, boring)

That doesnt mean that the army won't play well. Death Guard have basically no subfaction trait and the anti-soup Necron bonus is pretty lackluster and as armies they work just fine.

Dark eldar get so many abilities though. Foks need to remember Power from Pain was always an additional bonus to the armies obsessions for example. Admech are in a similar boat with canticles. I think folks expecting even more were expecting a bit much, but in the end there you have it, yet another bonus sprinkled on top for good measure. I am actual happy it's boring since it's easy to implement. My necrons have to deal with preprogramming and even after that you have to remember to pick 1 of 2 options and sometimes both. It's incredibly clunky and silly. Sometimes more interesting really does just mean more complex, I'll take simple any day.

 Galas wrote:
TBH Blade Artists sees pretty weak compared with other faction rules like Angels of Death, Ere we go, mob rule and dakkadakka, Acts of Faith, Res Protocols and Living Metal, etc... (But even worse than weak, boring)

That doesnt mean that the army won't play well. Death Guard have basically no subfaction trait and the anti-soup Necron bonus is pretty lackluster and as armies they work just fine.

Hey galas, could you tell us the Subfaction rules since alongside the more specific things (Strats/WT/Relics) we almost have all the datasheets?

Does the Court of the Archon on the points page show a unit size of 4-16? Maybe I'm just going blind....

So Blade Artisans is just a wet turd. Glad we traded ally-independent PfP for that pigswill.

Incidentally, given that vehicles have apparently kept their invulnerable saves and Scourges have actually gained better invulnerable save . . . what's the point of having them on our PfP table? At the very least, the fething 6++ just seems like an insult. Might as well start the table at turn 2 and be honest about it.

 Galas wrote:
This is from reddit:

There is a Succubus and Haemy equivalent to the Master Archon. Haemy gains an ability to return to life like Saint Celestine, a nasty once-per-battle relic (D3 mortals on 2+, the unit loses Aura abilities and can't benefit from Auras till your next turn) and his Warlord Trait lets him ressurect Wracks, Super-Succubus consolidates at 6' and does not have to finish closer to an enemy models (which is crazy ass balls) brutal Artifact Weapon (+2 S, -4 AP, D2, wounds 6+ ignore invulnerable saves) and a Warlord Trait that allows her to switch out her normal Attacks for 3+number of enemy models 2' around her.

Master Haemonculus sounds pretty nice. If nothing else, potentially resurrecting once per battle is a really cool ability.

Seems like the Archon really drew the short straw when it comes to Master upgrades. And even as a "Master" he's still stuck with the godawful Shadowfield, because heaven forbid GW finally ditch that stupid, fething rule.

But hey, Archons are just Ork Warbosses at this point so I guess them using completely unreliable and outdated tech makes perfect sense.

Enough of my stuff is AP-, AP-1 or AP-2 currently for me to think Blade Artists is not a totally useless rule. TBF tho I do play mostly wych cults, if your drukhari are venomspam warriors yeah it's super pointless.

The 6++ definitely seems extremely lackluster, so much of our army already pays for invulnerable saves. Like SO MUCH - assuming Inured from Pain is still an invuln (which the rules for the super-wracks seems to imply) literally the only units that don't have at least a 6++ are:

-Kabalites
-Courts of the Archon models
-Incubi
-Hellions
-Reavers
-Beastmasters
-Lhameans

That's....that's all I can think of. In the whole codex.

 vipoid wrote:


Incidentally, given that vehicles have apparently kept their invulnerable saves and Scourges have actually gained better invulnerable save . . . what's the point of having them on our PfP table? At the very least, the fething 6++ just seems like an insult. Might as well start the table at turn 2 and be honest about it.

Our vehicle invul saves are just vs ranged attacks, the PfP table invul protects them in close combat, particularly from turn 3 onwards, when I assume GW expects they will be stuck in a melee. This fits with the close combat boost that has been given to the vehicles, like +3 attacks from chain snares.

new pfp makes a lot more sense if Inured is not a redundant invuln save anymore. I was kind of hoping that the 4++ and -1 to hit was the new Wych Dodge, but it seems that's only Lelith, so Wyches will probably retain their current "4++ if in combat" and just either lose the 6++ or still have it but it only matters if you don't have PFP.

the_scotsman wrote:
I was kind of hoping that the 4++ and -1 to hit was the new Wych Dodge

I was hoping it was the new Shadowfield.

oh, I just noticed the Cronos actually got one more buff: its ranged weaponry got upped from the memetastic Strength 3 they were before to Strength 5, as well as being D2 when they roll a 6 instead of dd3.

Still a joke, even if they get that WHITE HOT SYNERGY with the blade artists rule. Tentacle artists, wooglewooglewoogle!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I was kind of hoping that the 4++ and -1 to hit was the new Wych Dodge

I was hoping it was the new Shadowfield.

The best thing about the Archon now is the fact that his aura affects INCUBI so when you take him as a mandatory 2nd HQ alongside drazar he can run alongside him yelling NOTICE ME SEMPAI

As he makes 5 S3 attacks in melee and drazar pumps out like 12 S20 AP-6 D85 melee attacks with +1 to wound

the_scotsman wrote:

The best thing about the Archon now is the fact that his aura affects INCUBI so when you take him as a mandatory 2nd HQ alongside drazar he can run alongside him yelling NOTICE ME SEMPAI

As he makes 5 S3 attacks in melee and drazar pumps out like 12 S20 AP-6 D85 melee attacks with +1 to wound

Seriously, what was the point of this Huskblade nerf?

I could maybe understand it if they wanted to move the Archon away from a melee role (though it would still seem wholly unnecessary), except that the only thing the Master Archon does is fight twice 1/battle.


Also, Blassed Blade: S+2 AP-3 D1d3
Huskblade: S:User, AP-2, D2

Just saying.

All fear the might of our advanced technology.

I love the Shadowfield - have done since it came in

Lots of interesting and powerful stuff so far - have to see if anything is op!

 Mr Morden wrote:
I love the Shadowfield - have done since it came in

Well I guess you're in luck, since it hasn't bloody well changed since it came in.


It existed in a time when models were lucky to have even 5++ saves, and many only got those in lieu of any armour.

Nowadays, invulnerable saves of 4++ (or better) are everywhere - even in our own army.

And the Archon is still stuck with the exact same piece of garbage he's had since 3rd.


Also, I just personally hate the damn thing. I don't like it mechanically (it feels completely outdated, almost as if it was lazily copy-pasted from an older edition). I don't like how it feels (either it's unfun for my opponent or it's unfun for me - there's no middle-ground.), and I hate the fluff (how do Archons survive this long relying on this garbage for protection?).

I'll just stick to the Venom Blade, it's free and AP-1 now.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I love the Shadowfield - have done since it came in

Lots of interesting and powerful stuff so far - have to see if anything is op!

The shadowfield is fine, it seems worse to folks but it's really more an issue with the creeping lethality of the game. The volume of attacks is incredible on so many things which makes the SF seem unreliable. I remember when twin assault canon razorbacks and annihilation barges were the insane volume units with there whopping 4 shots rerolling misses lol. Compare that the the 12 and 10 now.

I'll personally be taking drazhar instead of an arhcon 9/10 games. No need for a second HQ, and even with his aura affecting incubi, I'd rather spend his points on more incubi lol. I honestly wish they went a bit weird with the archon, make him almost worse in combat then now (if thats possible) and really lean into him as a force multiplier and tactician. Now he's easily the worst HQ. That said, maybe a strat, WLT or relic will pull him from the fire but in the past it already hurt giving up those things elsewhere just to make him not suck.

So far it's looking like a sidegrade to me. Sure stuff on a whole is a bit more lethal, but then again the game creep has required that just to stay level with the game. I am a bit disappointed with certain things sucking still. Archite glave, Casket of Flensing, Cronos but i will consider it a win if hellions and beasts improved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Imateria wrote:
I'll just stick to the Venom Blade, it's free and AP-1 now.

My exact thoughts. Maybe there is a sweet venom blade relic for poison tongue instead of the pistol. But either way, 2+ to wound with -1 and a truck load of attacks is probably mathematically close to the husk blade which is more expensive and gives you a false sense of the upward potential.

No interest in master archon? You could take a 20 man warrior put it in the webway and deep strike it with 2 dark lances and 2 blasters. Hitting on 2's that will hit pretty hard as trueborn.

I remember when the shadowfield was an optional upgrade that cost points. When I learned it was made a baseline ability I was pleased they cut out the middle man.

 Xenomancers wrote:
No interest in master archon? You could take a 20 man warrior put it in the webway and deep strike it with 2 dark lances and 2 blasters. Hitting on 2's that will hit pretty hard as trueborn.

Trueborn have a max unit size of 10.

 Xenomancers wrote:
No interest in master archon? You could take a 20 man warrior put it in the webway and deep strike it with 2 dark lances and 2 blasters. Hitting on 2's that will hit pretty hard as trueborn.

Might want to reread that article.

We did get the Djin Blade leaks guys.

I guess you'll say its only one phase - but potentially 14 attacks hitting on 2s with AP-3, 3 damage, seems good. Okay only S4 but if say the warlord trait that lets you reroll all wounds (or something similar) survived the jump that's less of an issue.

Drazhar I guess can to an extent do this every turn he charges - but then he's 135 points, compared to 70+X. Assuming the X is 15-25 or so, I think its a reasonable deal.

 Xenomancers wrote:
No interest in master archon? You could take a 20 man warrior put it in the webway and deep strike it with 2 dark lances and 2 blasters. Hitting on 2's that will hit pretty hard as trueborn.

'Trueborn' are hard-capped at 10.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I remember when the shadowfield was an optional upgrade that cost points. When I learned it was made a baseline ability I was pleased they cut out the middle man.

I remember Corsairs getting it for half the cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyel wrote:
We did get the Djin Blade leaks guys.

I guess you'll say its only one phase - but potentially 14 attacks hitting on 2s with AP-3, 3 damage, seems good. Okay only S4 but if say the warlord trait that lets you reroll all wounds (or something similar) survived the jump that's less of an issue.

Drazhar I guess can to an extent do this every turn he charges - but then he's 135 points, compared to 70+X. Assuming the X is 15-25 or so, I think its a reasonable deal.

At that point it feels like you have 2 characters trying to do the same thing and one of them is just vastly superior at it.

Which is the more annoyng issue for me. I am less annoyed by his lack of killiness and more so his flat aura.

I want the archon to have the Callidus ability to affect the enemies strats for example.

His underworld network and political intrigue should have been the focus.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I remember when the shadowfield was an optional upgrade that cost points. When I learned it was made a baseline ability I was pleased they cut out the middle man.

I remember when Archons actually had a choice of wargear - like the option to take a Clone Field for a regular 4++ instead.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Which is the more annoyng issue for me. I am less annoyed by his lack of killiness and more so his flat aura.

I want the archon to have the Callidus ability to affect the enemies strats for example.

His underworld network and political intrigue should have been the focus.

Agreed. Unfortunately, Archons are just Warbosses now. "We hit things in melee, except we suck at it."

Voss wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
No interest in master archon? You could take a 20 man warrior put it in the webway and deep strike it with 2 dark lances and 2 blasters. Hitting on 2's that will hit pretty hard as trueborn.

'Trueborn' are hard-capped at 10.

Shame. So they cap the unit size but you lose the old trueborn weapons allowance? like...why? Just give us old trueborn FFS.