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Early reviews are coming in and they are calling it pretty stellar.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Solid opening to the series and to what looks to be the groundwork of a mafia war in Gotham!
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Lance845 wrote: Gunna be weird if all this murder keeps escalating and Batman never shows up.
Yeah, I've been thinking about that, particularly in the previews that show things escalating.
I have a few rationalizations in my head: First is that he's recovering after his injuries from the tale end of The Batman, which was only like a week ago in the show universe. Or he's just overwhelmed by the mass displacement of neighborhoods and the associated chaos. Or internecine violence between criminals might not be a priority when the gak has hit the fan so thoroughly in the city.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Lance845 wrote: Gunna be weird if all this murder keeps escalating and Batman never shows up.
Yeah, I've been thinking about that, particularly in the previews that show things escalating.
I have a few rationalizations in my head: First is that he's recovering after his injuries from the tale end of The Batman, which was only like a week ago in the show universe. Or he's just overwhelmed by the mass displacement of neighborhoods and the associated chaos. Or internecine violence between criminals might not be a priority when the gak has hit the fan so thoroughly in the city.
Yeah I agree. Batman is busy/recovering.
But....
The people directly involved in or related to the inciting incident are now directly involved in this escalating gang war. While Batman would need to go after these other groups that are trying to make plays for power, Penguin and the Falcones are directly on that list of people who need to be watched and dealt with.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Lance845 wrote: Gunna be weird if all this murder keeps escalating and Batman never shows up.
Yeah, I've been thinking about that, particularly in the previews that show things escalating.
I have a few rationalizations in my head: First is that he's recovering after his injuries from the tale end of The Batman, which was only like a week ago in the show universe. Or he's just overwhelmed by the mass displacement of neighborhoods and the associated chaos. Or internecine violence between criminals might not be a priority when the gak has hit the fan so thoroughly in the city.
Believe I saw a pic of a newspaper prop they used in the show that mentioned something about the The Batman being missing. So yeah...likely recovering, helping the city (again, being that positive force instead of just a thug-beater), and planning next steps.
And as The Batman narration said...it's a big city and he can't be everywhere. Imagine in real-life one dude trying to "patrol" New York City. Would he have his eye on Oz? Possibly. But the events of The Penguin might only take place over a couple weeks (we'll see) and he also can't fight both sides of a gang war.
I think it'd be incredibly cool if
Spoiler:
we got a brief appearance by Pattinson as Matches Malone in a mob hangout or something, with no explanation for non-comics fans. Basically just a quick drive-by for those of us who know to show that he's out there, lurking.
But I haven't heard any actual rumors and leaks about that, so it's unlikely anything like that will happen.
Really loving Oz and his scheming. Dude is a ruthless killer, but I can't help but sympathize with him after seeing his mom starting to fall into dementia and how much he really cares for her. And his tutoring of Victor is weirdly endearing in a dark way.
We get a bit more of Sofia's backstory and it turns out she's much worse than I thought. Figured she was suffering some form of mental breakdown or disorder, but turns out she's much more sinister. Only familiar with the "main" baddies of Batman's stable of villainy, so had no idea on the backstory of the character she's playing.
Persian mobsters in Maroni's outfit is pretty weird, but not a deal breaker.
Pacing is good and feels pretty dense, with the dialogue being stellar. For someone who doesn't view a lot of media much anymore, this is a nice little shot in the arm after the abject failure of The Acolyte and the wildly disappointing Rings of Power.
This is a great show. Gonna give this episode a re-watch tonight.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
I am enjoying it an awful alot more than I did the Batman film - so far good characters, pacing and story.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Still have to watch ep3 (will when I get at home) but so far, 2 eps in this show has been absolute gold.
Even though you know that nothing can happen to penguin (atleast nothing can kill him) in this show.. you're still constantly at the edge of your seat when he gets in trouble and that is an acting-effort as much as really, really good writing.
This show blows most if not all other shows out of the water and into the firmament, hopefully through it' to never be seen again.
Seriously, when you watch this show you'll feel like canceling most other shows is the right thing to do.
I've heard some people say that it reminds them of the sopranos, now, I haven't ever really watched sopranos other than a few clips because it was so popular in online communities, but the idea is that it's moreof a mob-tale than a gotham-universe'.
Ofcourse it's based on the batman movie (which did have the absolute worst riddler imaginable, and this riddler is also a bit suggested to exist in this series, which can go two ways; continuing the genericified version or evolving him into a more recognicable riddler, albeit in a realistic setting)
Sofia is played really well, the Gotham version of her is a lot less well played, going by looking like a helpsless deer to manipulate people around her, this version (Penguin) of Sofia is a lot more crazy crazy, you wonder wether she is going to snap and lose her mind. That' is a good thing because it makes whoever is in the room be there in uncertainty, with her being a ticking timebomb, people need to walk on eggshells around her just so she doesn't go over the rails or atleast that is what the atmosphere feels like in scenes she's in.
Penguins sidekick is also well selected, realistically going back and forth between being in over his head and succeeding somewhat halfly to aid Penguin's situations, he's not walking in like a written-solution to a problem, the fact that he can fail is a breath of fresh air.
Another thing that's on my mind is that most series start out really good to hook you and then allow clowncar's full of the worst writers to "add their personal ideas about it" which always involves wokerifying it so much that noone on earth except the writers themselves still feel connected to it (and I don't mean represented when I say connected, that's a different thing and shouldn't even exist in series in the first place as series are meant to be an escape, not a fingerpointing.) so.. it is still possible that this series come Season 2 gets pulled into that sewage pipe.
So holding my breath, this series is really good and makes you forget about all the bad series out there (rings of power, agatha all along, acolyte, house of the dragon to some extent as its the best on the bad list), there are more series that have a good direction but are plagued with strange choices and obvious 'all men bad' paradigm such as 'slow horses' etc, but ok.. that's even in the old Gotham series which I'm still watching (halfway into S4 now, rewatched after I quit halfway in S3 when it was still on air)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/10/07 13:21:59
"Why would i be lying for Wechhudrs sake man.., i do not write fiction!"
I keep hearing good things about this show, but I am having a hard time starting. I am a bit tired of watching shows about bad people doing bad things, and being expected to care about them. I think I am anti-heroed out at the moment.
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He is the protagonist of the series but he's no anti-hero. If at the moment you're not into a show about bad people doing bad things then this is not the show for you.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Ahtman wrote: He is the protagonist of the series but he's no anti-hero. If at the moment you're not into a show about bad people doing bad things then this is not the show for you.
Yeah, pretty much this. You're going into a crime drama along the lines more of Breaking Bad, when Walter is in his full Heisenberg persona, there's no anti-hero in this show so far. If you want something where the main character is unambigiously good and triumphs over the idea of the anti-hero in the DC universe, I suggest watching Superman vs the Elite.
I think the magic of this series is that the danger factor is not to Penguin's own eh health (and survival) but to his growing emotional connection to Victor.
It is Victor that is constantly being put into (realistic) dangerous situations at the behest of Penguin and this is what creates the real tension.
Penguin is a figure that is on a set course, like a wild bull pushing himself through a figurative crawlspace fit only for one. That he takes along Victor, firstly against his will, then by dangling the golden carrot of position and its conveniences' in front of him as a sort of rite of becoming' firstly makes it so that Penguin gives himself a weakness that can be exploited; someone to care about' (beside his mother). Penguin can now be hurt, obviously not so much directly because he simply is a long-term character who can never die in the series, but by hurting Victor who's fate is very uncertain because he's not an established character with a set future.
"Why would i be lying for Wechhudrs sake man.., i do not write fiction!"
watched ep4 yesterday, got some thoughts.. dunno about this.. insert-mini-dei direction.
Biggus spoilerus;
Spoiler:
So firstly, the worst one can do is overexplain a character and leave nothing to mystery or guesswork, Sofia falcone being the focus of this ep kindof exactly goes there, but this could be a set up (HOPEFULLY) for good writing, like I am theorizing how awesome it would be if eventually it would come to light that yes, she actually IS insane and killed all those women herself in her father's stead (who did kill her mother obviously as that is practically confirmed now).. alas, I am a writer and most payroll writers are not really so who knows if this is an option being sculpted (or already prescripted)..
The other option being that no its all just as generic as can be, being layed out like a monocolour cement wall rather than a mozaic; here's your "I didn't have a male generative-part (actual quote in more adult language in this episode mind you) so I am struggletrubbling through life and so all men = bad" character who is just misunderstood, misdiagnosed and therefor "a rebel who just doesn't care" which we have seen almost every female character be made into in every modern show. With the sole exception that atleast Sofia isn't some butch brawler (like lara croft is in her new series) but physically silky and timid, although ofcourse in the tablemanners scene she acts as if she has just been given the powers of a god and can act with impunity.. ohwell..
That is how you get low-imagination reviews like this; https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/penguin-sofia-falcone-actually-185000001.html Making yet another woman character into a "victim" therefor moralizing the rest of whatever she may well do.
I would hope this show turns her into option 1, she did kill those women, she is literally insane, atleast that makes for an interesting character rather than another character everyone that isn't the main populace can "identify with".
My 2 cents.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/10/17 14:29:59
"Why would i be lying for Wechhudrs sake man.., i do not write fiction!"
Im still watching and i think the show is great. This last episode was focused on Sophia. Good background explaining and expanding on her history with oz and her relationship with her family.
You see some more of papa falcones history that mirrors some of his relationships from The Batman. It's neat to see that he had a pattern and that even his "real" family was not safe from them.
Great choice of casting the younger Carmine Falcone. It's pretty incredible how close they look and how good the acting is.
Small cameo of d list villain from the comics.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
I seem to remember her from one of the first Batman/Superman team ups.
Regarding the episode:
It was a decent episode, but I probably rank it as my least favorite so far. Maybe when the series finishes I'll like it more on a rewatch.
Spoiler:
I think it did go a bit farther than it needed to in explaining the how's/whys of Sofia. I think a payoff of whether she's a real psycho or not could've been better served for later in the series. Not knowing the truth of her character made her much more of a menacing presence in the first 3 episodes.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2024/10/17 15:19:40
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
I seem to remember her from one of the first Batman/Superman team ups.
Regarding the episode:
It was a decent episode, but I probably rank it as my least favorite so far. Maybe when the series finishes I'll like it more on a rewatch.
Spoiler:
I think it did go a bit farther than it needed to in explaining the how's/whys of Sofia. I think a payoff of whether she's a real psycho or not could've been better served for later in the series. Not knowing the truth of her character made her much more of a menacing presence in the first 3 episodes.
As my spoilered post states I agree so much on this overexplaining sofia.
And Magpie, I wonder if we see more of her or if that was conclusive.
I just saw some Magpie in Gotham S5 too coincedentially right before watching this penguin ep, as I was still doing a rewatch (and thankfully soon that will be over too, I'm so tired of that show at this point but still want to watch it all)
"Why would i be lying for Wechhudrs sake man.., i do not write fiction!"
Oh come on, we all know Batman has Robot Batmoles constantly digging away, to ensure fresh faces for him to punch, lest he start punching those he deems innocent!
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Olawdy the most recent ep was a gem, can't recall feeling so immersed and entertained by a series in a while, maybe back when watching some german timetravel show (forgot name of, but was really good), every scene in this ep was eyecandy and interesting.
I'm rooting for penguin, man that evil villain smirk on his face during his mushroom trade (to keep it spoiler free)
whataguuuuy
His mother is also played so well, top tier among top tier actresses imo.
Only character I really dislike so far is the shrink but I'm sure hell get killed at some point in the show heh, can't wait.
He's like the annoying fan in Elder scrolls.
This show deserves awards.
Edit after watching ep06:
Spoiler:
Starting to speculate wether Victor is actually a new rendition of Victor Zsasz.. why you may ask?
Well, in canon Zsasz is stated to have gone insane after losing his entire fortune to Penguin in a (literal) gamble.
We can see the Penguin's Victor getting to his second kill now, his character unraveling into a sort of -all or nothing-, we all know his character had the chance to leave with his girlfriend but went back because he likes the money and power, he literally has noone and nothing else, what if he gets super rich from helping penguin and gambles and loses it all, being betrayed by penguin not caring to give him back all his lost money.. yeah, he'd definately be left with absolutely nothing and feel exactly as the canon Victor Zsasz; life having no purpose.
I think this is what they may well be going for, I would like to see it because it would be tragic and I like a good tragedy on screen.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/10/29 15:42:58
"Why would i be lying for Wechhudrs sake man.., i do not write fiction!"
"Oz killing his brothers to have mom all to himself" on their Penguin bingo card?
Yeah, that was pretty horrific.
Spoiler:
I'll have to watch again as I was eating dinner and my dog was acting a fool so it didn't have my full attention, but did it seem like he did it on purpose or he was just fething with his brothers and it turned tragic?
I had thought his brothers would've been killed by organized criminal violence or domestic violence, leaving Vic and his mom to fend for themselves, leading him down this path, but this was next level crazy.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/11/06 16:46:18
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
It was pretty clearly on purpose. There were multiple times he could have said or done something, and that is on top him straight up lying about them going to the theater.
Edit: Looked at some other comments and it seems debated as to when he knew that his actions doomed them. Perhaps initially he hadn't considered that they could be in any serious danger but there also came a point where had to realize it still let it slide.
So far he has betrayed every person around him. First his brothers, then his mom by lying to her about his involvement even though it was obvious their deaths destroyed her, Sofia when he helped get her sent to Arkham and then with the drug, and the the Maroni's who he set up several times. I suppose Victor and the other gangs are next.
Saw someone describe Penguin as "utterly pathetic and inconceivably dangerous" and that sounds about right.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2024/11/06 17:37:28
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Julian Rush only exists in Sofia's mind? He's a very odd character who just seems to be...around...when Sofia needs him. And then absent otherwise. The character is highly inconsequential, adding nothing to the story, and that's a red flag for me when this show is very tightly written overall. If he's meant to be a future rogue as some have suggested, they've done a terrible job developing him. Which is also a red flag for me when the character writing has been so stellar otherwise.
I dunno. If he's not some kind of coping mechanism that Sofia invented at Arkham, I feel like there has to be some other twist. I have no idea why the character would exist otherwise.
Julian Rush only exists in Sofia's mind? He's a very odd character who just seems to be...around...when Sofia needs him. And then absent otherwise. The character is highly inconsequential, adding nothing to the story, and that's a red flag for me when this show is very tightly written overall. If he's meant to be a future rogue as some have suggested, they've done a terrible job developing him. Which is also a red flag for me when the character writing has been so stellar otherwise.
I dunno. If he's not some kind of coping mechanism that Sofia invented at Arkham, I feel like there has to be some other twist. I have no idea why the character would exist otherwise.
Its likely a good shout but
Spoiler:
Others do seem to react to his presence like her minions?
I figure she will kill him at some point
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/11/06 22:30:31
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
