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Ok, so that bugging thought came to mind again about space marines and how they basically carry no extra ammo into battle and having only like 20-30 round magazines. And when fighting against orks and tyranids, they simply would never have enough ammo.

I then remembered something though. The Devastator box had the armorium cherub.

What if literally behind every space marine squad was a conga line of servitor skulls and cherubs carrying the magazines and ammo for space marines. They're armor already interfaces with their guns to tell ammo count, so that data can be transferred to a repository of servo skulls at an FOB, or drop pod, or resupply point, that then carries the ammo to the space marine himself, floating just behind the space marine to act as an ammo pouch. And when that skulls almost out of ammo to give, another one takes it's place in this endless conga line of servo skulls and cherubs doing supply runs from space marines, to supply points, and back again.

And when I say servo skulls carrying ammo, I mean like carrying a few magazines for space marine to grab from. They'd also be ergonomical in battle being relatively small, able to float, and traverse the battlefield. Not to mention servo skulls are comparatively cheap, plentiful, and compact. For bigger things like the weapons of Devastator squads, cherubs could be used to make the supply runs since they seem able to carry heavier equipment.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Logistics are not really addressed in most of 40K as far as I can see, so your explanation is just as good as any!

I do remember in some books Space Marine characters talk about preserving ammo, but luckily they always have it when they need it!

I always imagined in the initial drop drop pods with ammo appeared at various predicted rally points... Also they are meant to be a mobile army, so the vehicles would be laden down.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
I always imagined in the initial drop drop pods with ammo appeared at various predicted rally points... Also they are meant to be a mobile army, so the vehicles would be laden down.

This is essentially how I imagine it- supplies in vehicles and from air drops. Essentially how resupply occurs in Dawn of War 2 (I know crates are also found around the maps, but in general supply and reinforcement occurs around orbital beacons), which I think is still one of the best representations of Marines at war.

Soldiers don't usually need that much ammo for a single firefight, especially a very aggressive one where one side is forcing the assault (likely when Marines are involved). So resupplying between short, sharp firefights is very possible. Bear in mind a typical 40k battle probably covers like 10 minutes of combat for a critical action.

Notice how scouts are loaded up with gear and ammo in comparison to Marines- they can expect much poorer levels of resupply.

I think servo skulls, cherubim, and servitors doing the job of delivering ammo from vehicles/drop pods to the actual Marines is a sound hypothesis. Chapter serfs might also be deployed for this role, especially in well-secured positions.

It's also a style choice. The old Deathwatch models were laden with grenades, ammo pouches and whatnot, the new Primaris Marines.... not so much.

There's an Iron Hands short story that has servitor-driven Rhinos ferrying ammo around.

Pretty sure you can also imagine it as being chapter dependent with that

I just handwave it away by 'assuming' that there might be a multitude of Chapter Serfs/runners/non-combatants/auxilliaries/servitors blah blah running around behind the scenes delivering ammunition/rounds/munitions/clips/mags etc etc from various depots/supplies drops to the guys actually firing downrange

Modeling some Ammo services, or Adepts hauling ammo would be some fun Wound markers or other cool conversions for someone to build.

This isn't just a 40K thing either; if you read the fantasy books there's a good many where armies are on the march but there's no camp followers, smiths or any sense that there's anything much save for the soldiers marching in full armour everywhere every day.

Or at least there's often less focus on the logistics side of things compared to the full military side.

Which I cna kind of understand since GW wants to push the war side not the logistics side. Plus 32mm games don't really give you more than room for a token logistics model.

Shift to AI/Epic/Warmaster scale though and you can have space on the table for a whole camp if you want. Indeed a few 15mm fantasy lines (like Battle Valor) even have entire sets of models for the whole logistics side of supporting an army.

Ironically I think the gamification ammo in space marine is actually how it's done.

They drop ammo crates along their planned route, probably genecoded to the geneseed and explode if fiddled with.

Recall also that the imperium doesn't understand underspend, so they could quite literally drop millions of ammo crates across a whole planet with locator beacons and genecoding bombs in the off chance a marine might find it.

They also understand the importance of a whole division of Imperial Guard carving their way through no-man's-land - only one Chimera making it all the way through to the very spearhead of where the Marines are in order to delivery a fresh magazine of ammo to the marines.

I imagine they use every means to ensure they're fully supplied.

The other thing to consider though is that marines aren't supposed to be fighting frontline grinding wars, they are strike force that have specialised missions with specific outcomes.

They shouldn't need a huge resupply train to keep them going, because they strike and retreat. I imagine the majority of their ammo is dropped with them at the same time they are, so when they hit the enemy commander's bunker they're surrounded by ammo to use.

All neat ideas to add to scenarios and campaigns or modelling projects in this thread.

 Hellebore wrote:
They shouldn't need a huge resupply train to keep them going, because they strike and retreat. I imagine the majority of their ammo is dropped with them at the same time they are, so when they hit the enemy commander's bunker they're surrounded by ammo to use.

This.
Marines are a short-term solution when other forces are unable to manage. Once the line is broken, the commander killed, the bunker stormed or whatever, the Guard sweep in and take over. Marines do not expect to be left in the field for long.

And yet originally they were the main troops of the Crusade and we still have them engage in large pitched battles. Rare events sure but they still happen.

Take the two major invasions of Tyranids on Marine Homeworlds. Marines were not operating in surgical strike mode in those; that was full on front-line battle conditions against a foe that favours overwhelming numbers.


So resupply and so forth has to be part of their training and support infrastructure.

Fighting from prepared fortresses is the easiest resupply condition though.

Sustained field operations is the tricky one that Marines rarely do.

Thunderhawks, Drop Pods, Storm Eagles, Rhinos, Landraiders, Razorbacks.

All transport options, all perfectly capable of carrying additional ammunition for the infantry and themselves.

Just because we don’t see it on the board, doesn’t mean the Marines that are, are doing so without support.

Orrr... it could be that the weapons supply their own ammo.

In the 8th edition Imperial Knights codex, the Avenger Relic Endless Fury, says the weapons have built in nano forges which supply endless ammunition.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Orrr... it could be that the weapons supply their own ammo.

In the 8th edition Imperial Knights codex, the Avenger Relic Endless Fury, says the weapons have built in nano forges which supply endless ammunition.

That is a relic, though-not a common Bolter.

Orrrr....

It could.....


Okay, I got nothing.

What powers Volkite weaponry? Does it have ammo? This would be the basis of the great crusade logistics I thought.

I also think drop pods come down totally laden with ammo. Their orbital ships are literally shooting the Space Marines Ammo at them.

Nonetheless, if you do not carry them with you at the very moment you need them, still strange that they got enough ammo to go even through spec ops against nids numbering in their thousands whereever you go, or while extracting , as a fighting retreat can quickly chew through ammo as quickly as any assault action! But hey, let us savour the epicness of all that anyhow!

 Flinty wrote:
What powers Volkite weaponry? Does it have ammo? This would be the basis of the great crusade logistics I thought.

Power cell of some kind, as they’re energy weapons.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
I also think drop pods come down totally laden with ammo. Their orbital ships are literally shooting the Space Marines Ammo at them.

One of the Imperial Armor books mentions supply Drop Pods specifically.

Beyond the usual idea that extra ammunition can be carried by any attending vehicles in the ground force, there's the idea that non-Primaris Marines can actually share the same ammuniton as other forces in the theatre like Sisters or Guard. Imperial Guard have Storm Bolters (which use Bolter ammunition), Heavy Bolters, Plasmaguns, Meltaguns, Lascannons and other shared weapons with their own logistics chain. It'd be mightily convenient if Space Marines could resupply using the Guard in a lot of cases.

The simplest answer may just be that the "tabletop default" loadout for a space marine is minimalistic and represents the least amount of ammo/other gear they would reasonably take on a mission. In other circumstances they would bring more, maybe even large packs with spare weapons or devices, but that's not what's being modeled.

Likewise I figure they're all brightly colored because they're on a mission where camouflage paint wouldn't be useful, and the sergeant isn't wearing his helmet because it's damaged or malfunctioning somehow.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
I always imagined in the initial drop drop pods with ammo appeared at various predicted rally points... Also they are meant to be a mobile army, so the vehicles would be laden down.

from the letsp lay's i've seen, Space Marine 2 seems to take this approach.. chibi-droppods, about the size of those escape pods in the gallowdark killteam sets. the game uses them to let you swap up your loadout, but size wise you could probably resupply a squad that way in a non-game context.

 Orkeosaurus wrote:
The simplest answer may just be that the "tabletop default" loadout for a space marine is minimalistic and represents the least amount of ammo/other gear they would reasonably take on a mission. In other circumstances they would bring more, maybe even large packs with spare weapons or devices, but that's not what's being modeled.

Likewise I figure they're all brightly colored because they're on a mission where camouflage paint wouldn't be useful, and the sergeant isn't wearing his helmet because it's damaged or malfunctioning somehow.

The bold heraldry in place of camo is one of my favourite things about Astartes.

They’re not trying to hide. They want you to see them coming. Because they’re closing fast, and your firepower doesn’t seem to be slowing them, let alone stopping them. And once they’re in range, your mates start exploding.

Not always represented on the board of course, but the background needn’t go full Bolter prawn to get across that Astartes are horrific to fight, and that has a psychological impact on the inexperienced. Which given how rare they’re meant to be, is a decent chunk of the galaxy.

I always try to model my Astartes with at least a few mags worth of ammo, in addition to having pistols and 'nades. Problem is, the equipment bitz GW supplies look to big to realistically support it. Its always a struggle adding it all in.

I always envision marines also being such good shots that they fire single shots most of the time. So 20-30 kills per clip. BL book depictions of spraying the air with bolt slugs might sound cinematic and all, but that ish has no room in my head canon. Also, with power armour and all, marines dont need to lay down as much "covering fire" as humans fighting conventional battles would (AFAIK, most ammo in conventional skirmish is wasted as suppression/cover fire innit)