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So Kyoto Secunda Prime is in middle school and needs a graphing calculator, an apparatus I never used in my life (we were happy with our scientific calculators dang it!).

My bit of research basically turned up that, yes they are wholly unneeded in the age of smart phones and laptops, HOWEVER schools still require them because they're not internet connected and can't be used to cheat.

I remember when using a calculator at all was cheating, but that's just my being old.

So any recommendations? I seem to remember that Texas Instruments (fine makers of the Speak and Spell) and Casio are the brands to go with.

Or should I buy a cheap one since it'll be obsolete before she hits high school.

I think my old TI-85 and TI-93 got me through High School and Freshman year of College.

I did think it was odd that they still sell those relics at Walmart. Now I know the Next Generation is also being tortured by their continued use.

My school days were well over 25 years ago, but I remember my casio graphic calculator well.

 JamesY wrote:
My school days were well over 25 years ago, but I remember my casio graphic calculator well.

I still have mine…

Middle school? Why would you need a graphing calculator?

What are they teaching kids these days?

I needed to get one (a TI-81) for HS calculus. But that was back in the 1900’s.

I had to have one for calculus class but almost never used it. A handful of times they threw in some problems in the HW sets that required a calculator to justify forcing us to buy the things.

Learning to use a graphing calculator is learning an additional skill that diverts necessary mental effort away from learning math and never pays off.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I had to have one for calculus class but almost never used it. A handful of times they threw in some problems in the HW sets that required a calculator to justify forcing us to buy the things.

Learning to use a graphing calculator is learning an additional skill that diverts necessary mental effort away from learning math and never pays off.

To be fair, after a certain point math becomes an exercise in telling the computer how to get your answer.

Before I dropped the concept of being a math/comp sci double major I ended up in a class which was like 90% “how to use mathmatica” to do stuff like N-dimensional vector calculus. Because you are not doing that by hand, and sometimes you need to navigate hyperspace.

 Jadenim wrote:

 JamesY wrote:
My school days were well over 25 years ago, but I remember my casio graphic calculator well.

I still have mine…

Mine was stolen with the rest of my pencil case. Still sore 26 years later

Hey look I'm just the dad here, all I know is if I buy the wrong one it means I don't love my daughter

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Hey look I'm just the dad here, all I know is if I buy the wrong one it means I don't love my daughter

Grain of salt: I’ve only got a son, so am giving bling guesses here.

Which one comes in cooler colors?
Do they have clips to hang charms off of (do girls still do that?)
A case that takes stickers/accessories well?
Are any brands endorsed by famous pop stars?
What ones do the cool kids use?

Is there a list of recommendations from the teacher/school?

The good old ti-84 plus ce should be good enough through middle school to college, dont go splurging on an even newer model like the ti-inspire line. The plus ce has color, works as a graphing calculator and is good enough for basically everything unless they decide to get a doctorate in math or something. The color is nice compared to the base ti-84 and easier to use.

A slide ruler and an abacus should get the job done.

 Ahtman wrote:
A slide ruler and an abacus should get the job done.

Does Pythagoras know your using his stuff?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
A slide ruler and an abacus should get the job done.

Does Pythagoras know your using his stuff?

He doesn't not know.

 Nevelon wrote:
Middle school? Why would you need a graphing calculator?

What are they teaching kids these days?

I needed to get one (a TI-81) for HS calculus. But that was back in the 1900’s.

Time marches on, and stuff we were taught as electives in High School are now required for middle school. And the stuff we learned in high school used to be college-level material decades before.

I'm still waiting for educators to catch on to the little detail that the internet is EVERYWHERE now, most people don't remember 99% of what they learned in school by the time they're 30, and we just look everything up if we need it. We also tend not to do big projects alone anymore, especially when there are many problems to solve and little time to get them done. Teaching HOW to solve problems and how to solve them coo-operatively will take kids way farther than expecting them to memorize things.

 Vulcan wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Middle school? Why would you need a graphing calculator?

What are they teaching kids these days?

I needed to get one (a TI-81) for HS calculus. But that was back in the 1900’s.

Time marches on, and stuff we were taught as electives in High School are now required for middle school. And the stuff we learned in high school used to be college-level material decades before.

I'm still waiting for educators to catch on to the little detail that the internet is EVERYWHERE now, most people don't remember 99% of what they learned in school by the time they're 30, and we just look everything up if we need it. We also tend not to do big projects alone anymore, especially when there are many problems to solve and little time to get them done. Teaching HOW to solve problems and how to solve them coo-operatively will take kids way farther than expecting them to memorize things.

I agree. While you still need to memorize concepts, and some core facts, all of human knowledge is in your back pocket these days. It’s more important to teach how to think, filtering the info stream, analyzing data. But rote memorization of lists of names/dates/etc? Less relevant. I’d rather they focus on the How’s and Why’s then the What’s and When’s.

But I’m not in education, so that’s just my outside opinion.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Hey look I'm just the dad here, all I know is if I buy the wrong one it means I don't love my daughter

Back when I was at school the school basically told us which brand to get - that way the interface/setup was the same so teachers could help more easily.

Vulcan: your ideas about the need to teach skills and concepts over facts are actually really popular and trendy in education these days. I think a factual knowledge base is still essential especially as google is a lot worse than it was and is hardly a neutral entity but I otherwise agree that skills and problem solving are important.

Kid Kyoto: Either Texas Instruments or Casio will be fine, find out which one most of the kids are using and get the same one so group troubleshooting is easier - you don't want to be the only kid with a certain model in the group even if it is better in a technical sense because no one will be able to help you if you get stuck.

We teach students the knowledge that they need to develop skills, and skills with which they can apply that knowledge. Sometimes that knowledge is just a means of developing the skill, but the knowledge itself is arbitrary. I teach English, which is a perfect example of this. It doesn't matter which Shakespeare text we teach, but students learn to understand complex grammatical constructions, vocabulary use, understanding of syntax etc that will help them understand communication modes far beyond the text, like mortgage offfers, job specs, lengthy contracts etc.

I'm still under the firm belief that there needs to be a class on Mortgages, Credit Cards, Interest Rates, DOW JONES/NASDAQ, Banks, etc.

Aka a class on how to deal with money... that is not a Finance Theory class.

It's unbelievable to me of how many people I interact with that have no idea why their credit score is bad... or in some cases that they have a credit score.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I'm still under the firm belief that there needs to be a class on Mortgages, Credit Cards, Interest Rates, DOW JONES/NASDAQ, Banks, etc.

Aka a class on how to deal with money... that is not a Finance Theory class.

It's unbelievable to me of how many people I interact with that have no idea why their credit score is bad... or in some cases that they have a credit score.

The reason THAT'S not going to happen is because the banking and credit industry make too much profit on people NOT understanding those things. And they pay government officials handsomely (via campaign contributions) to keep things that way.

Kids don't need calculators anyway; they yearn for the mines.

 Ahtman wrote:
Kids don't need calculators anyway; they yearn for the mines.

Like Virginia Coal Mines, The Mines in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, or the Mines of Moria?

Or the worst of all, Microsoft's Mine Sweeper?

 Nevelon wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I had to have one for calculus class but almost never used it. A handful of times they threw in some problems in the HW sets that required a calculator to justify forcing us to buy the things.

Learning to use a graphing calculator is learning an additional skill that diverts necessary mental effort away from learning math and never pays off.

To be fair, after a certain point math becomes an exercise in telling the computer how to get your answer.

Before I dropped the concept of being a math/comp sci double major I ended up in a class which was like 90% “how to use mathmatica” to do stuff like N-dimensional vector calculus. Because you are not doing that by hand, and sometimes you need to navigate hyperspace.

I got a degree in pure mathematics. We did all that by hand.

After a certain point, math became an exercise in proving the answers exist.

 Vulcan wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
I'm still under the firm belief that there needs to be a class on Mortgages, Credit Cards, Interest Rates, DOW JONES/NASDAQ, Banks, etc.

Aka a class on how to deal with money... that is not a Finance Theory class.

It's unbelievable to me of how many people I interact with that have no idea why their credit score is bad... or in some cases that they have a credit score.

The reason THAT'S not going to happen is because the banking and credit industry make too much profit on people NOT understanding those things. And they pay government officials handsomely (via campaign contributions) to keep things that way.

It isn't just that. In England we do teach kids about all that, albeit no where near enough, but the other issue is that they are still kids. You try using terms like mortgage, pension, credit score etc to a 14 year old and you'll get an eyeroll or yawn from most. The majority just don't care about anything that adult or far away.

 Ahtman wrote:
Kids don't need calculators anyway; they yearn for the mines.

Mines?

These kids today already spend too much indoors, they need to be harvesting the fields in Florida from dawn till dusk. Get a healthy tan and learn the value of hard work.

Parents - complain about kid not being in the mines/fields

Parents - also not sending their kids to the fields/mines!


Darn it Kyoto this is your chance! Get them a hoe and send them off to the fields then a pickaxe and the mines in the evening!!

 JamesY wrote:
We teach students the knowledge that they need to develop skills, and skills with which they can apply that knowledge. Sometimes that knowledge is just a means of developing the skill, but the knowledge itself is arbitrary. I teach English, which is a perfect example of this. It doesn't matter which Shakespeare text we teach, but students learn to understand complex grammatical constructions, vocabulary use, understanding of syntax etc that will help them understand communication modes far beyond the text, like mortgage offfers, job specs, lengthy contracts etc.

I teach science, I don't feel the body of knowledge taught is arbitrary. It's more that it'd be incredibly inefficient for students to use their skills (application of the scientific method) to re-confirm the massive body of knowledge collected by other people using those skills so we teach it to them as a body of knowledge to build on.

But I think languages and maths are quite different to science in that way. Language is one of the most pedagogically well understood subjects I think.

I'd hope that by reconfirming well known facts we could avoid having to endlessly argue evolution, vaccines and round Earth theory in real life.

Alas...

Trouble is, those making counter claims about those subjects are inherently dishonest, quote mining, data misquoting liars who simply aren’t interested in facts.

For instance, the Flat Earth claim that there is no gravity, only density and buoyancy. Despite their inability to explain why things fall down, when in terms of air density, things are slightly less dense as you go up into the atmosphere.

Young Earth Creationisits ignoring swathes of data and evidence, in favour of lying about a handful of papers.

Anti-Vaxxers relying on Andrew Wakefield’s discredited claims, wilfully ignorant that his conclusion wasn’t vaccines aren’t safe, but that his separate shot vaccine was safer. So even if his finding on the Combined MMR were correct (and they’re not!), nothing in that says anything about other vaccines.