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 Phobos wrote:
Casuals are the bread and butter of EVERY hobby, full stop bar none. The people who are serious are always a minority.

I agree, however, casual and competitive aren't mutually exclusive concepts. Someone can be a filthy casual and still be a competitive player. Someone can be a serious player who puts in thousands of hours and is a fluffy bunny.

I think of it a bit like playing a game of basketball with my colleagues after work, or a game of lawn bowls at the work Christmas party. Everyone there is casual, we might only play once a month or once a year, but you can be damned sure it's competitive On the video game side, back in the day the mates and I would go rent a game for one of our consoles, grab a slab of beer, and spend the night playing, it was hardly serious but it was bloody competitive.

On the flip side, maybe a few mates will go down to the park and kick the footy back and forth, might even run some drills. That would be an example of not-competitive.

My experience is that 40k players are mostly competitive in the sense they are actively trying to win (not WAAC, mind you) and that is a primary driver in the game over any narrative storylines and whatnot, there might be a brief narrative at the start to set the scene for the battle, but once the battle starts the narrative is on a level of kids making pew pew sounds at each other.

That doesn't necessarily mean that the internet meta is representative of the local casual meta, isolated groups will form their own isolated meta, but it will still be affected by the terrible balance of the rule set they are playing to.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
As far as I can tell, veteran guard can either take seven guys in a fireteam like regular guard, or take five and get 'tactical assets'.
Instead of selecting the options above, they can instead deploy four more Trooper Veterans than normal.
It seems that the only reason that is the case is so that the ten-man squad in the starter box is a valid kill team.

My reading is that the Veteran Guardsmen are a 1 Fireteam Kill team of either 10 models with Ancillary Support or 14 models of which 4 are Trooper Veterans and the rest are the various specialist available in the Kreig kit. The Imperial Guard Kill Team is a two fireteam kill team with choices of Guardsmen (7 models) or Tempetus Scions (unknown number of models).

I think Veterans will be one single Firetteam

 alextroy wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
As far as I can tell, veteran guard can either take seven guys in a fireteam like regular guard, or take five and get 'tactical assets'.
Instead of selecting the options above, they can instead deploy four more Trooper Veterans than normal.
It seems that the only reason that is the case is so that the ten-man squad in the starter box is a valid kill team.

My reading is that the Veteran Guardsmen are a 1 Fireteam Kill team of either 10 models with Ancillary Support or 14 models of which 4 are Trooper Veterans and the rest are the various specialist available in the Kreig kit. The Imperial Guard Kill Team is a two fireteam kill team with choices of Guardsmen (7 models) or Tempetus Scions (unknown number of models).

Yes, that seems to match what they say better than my interpretation. I suppose they want to make the 'starter' teams as simple as possible, so they are single fire-team kill-teams, while more 'advanced' ones have the option to take two different types of fire-team.

Marines only get one Fireteam in their gang, I think we've only seen the numbers for three gangs - Marines, Deathguard, and Guard, 2 of whom get two Fireteams and 1 gets one.

They spoke of flexibility in the article mentioning it, but if I had to pick whether Guard or Marines would be more flexible, I'd say the marines!

Worth mentioning that nothing says the "Veteran Guardsman" setup is limited to Krieg alone.

Krieg just seemed to be designed with it in mind.

Also worth mentioning, there's been some talk of Tankbustas and Grenadiers being the "general Kill Team release" in 2022 for both. They did something similar with AdMech & GSC, using the Kill Team branding to release the Manipulus and Kelermorphs bundled with an already released item.

Hard to say. We know there are 10 different 'units' you can pick models from for the Space Marines in Kill Team. We know Space Marines are a single fireteam Kill Team. We don't know how many fireteams options you have to pick between. Could be some strange ala carte selection rules. Could be Interessors/Assault Intercessors, Phobos marines, Heavy Intercessors, First Born, and Death Watch are 5 different fireteams of which you only get one.

Time will tell.

Deathwatch are their own faction.
Weird, never mind! They're not listed? I could have sworn they were.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Deathwatch are their own faction.
Weird, never mind! They're not listed? I could have sworn they were.

Correct. Because otherwise Space Marines wouldn't have enough models to work with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/08/sunday-preview-adjust-your-scopes-kill-team-octarius-has-been-sighted/

Okay, I am at least impressed by the Kill Team Essentials kit. This is something I asked them for during the last edition and I'm glad they've seen sense to add for this edition. They've even thrown in some cool little barracades too!

They'll also be discussing the road map for future 40K codices on friday...

Shame the box is limited edition.
I hope the books aren't too expensive separately.

I appreciate GW offering all the contents of the Octarius book (sans the Octarius-specific addon book) as separates as well. But now I'm quite certain that the combined price of all the four individual items (Rulebook+Compendium+Cards+Tokens&Gauges) will already be quite close to the hundo mark, how much you'd reckon? Somewhere around 80€-90€ maybe?

The box going at 155€ will be quite a decent value proposition as far as the models and terrain are concerned

 tauist wrote:
I appreciate GW offering all the contents of the Octarius book (sans the Octarius-specific addon book) as separates as well. But now I'm quite certain that the combined price of all the four individual items (Rulebook+Compendium+Cards+Tokens&Gauges) will already be quite close to the hundo mark, how much you'd reckon? Somewhere around 80€-90€ maybe?

The box going at 155€ will be quite a decent value proposition as far as the models and terrain are concerned

Well that's the nature of discount boxes and why they are limited. How many separate stuff they would sell if discount box is readily available.

I think it's hilarious that they're doing a two week pre-order window and the box is probably going to spend thirteen days, twenty three hours, and fifty five minutes of that sold out online.

Edit: Anyone want to take bets on how long it takes for the "Kill Team Essentials" accessory box and cards to sell out?

 tauist wrote:
I appreciate GW offering all the contents of the Octarius book (sans the Octarius-specific addon book) as separates as well. But now I'm quite certain that the combined price of all the four individual items (Rulebook+Compendium+Cards+Tokens&Gauges) will already be quite close to the hundo mark, how much you'd reckon? Somewhere around 80€-90€ maybe?

The box going at 155€ will be quite a decent value proposition as far as the models and terrain are concerned

The box doesn't contain the Compendium which is probably at least another £25.

You can probably flog the Krieg and terrain on Ebay for a decent penny though. I expect there'll be a lot less demand for Kommandos, but the Krieg hype will probably make up for any 'loss' on them.

I dunno. I imagine we'll see both sides going for at least $80, though since it's confirmed they're releasing separately, maybe the scalpers will be a bit more generous

 solkan wrote:
I think it's hilarious that they're doing a two week pre-order window and the box is probably going to spend thirteen days, twenty three hours, and fifty five minutes of that sold out online.

Edit: Anyone want to take bets on how long it takes for the "Kill Team Essentials" accessory box and cards to sell out?

Yeah i never understood why GW makes pre-order windows longer than one day.

 solkan wrote:
I think it's hilarious that they're doing a two week pre-order window and the box is probably going to spend thirteen days, twenty three hours, and fifty five minutes of that sold out online.

Edit: Anyone want to take bets on how long it takes for the "Kill Team Essentials" accessory box and cards to sell out?

They said they've produced as many of the Kill Team set as they have Dominion, and that's still available online.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Shame the box is limited edition.
I hope the books aren't too expensive separately.

Same. If the total cost of both books is over £35 then I'm out for sure. They can shove it.

Or why even have preorders in the first place.

 Kanluwen wrote:

They said they've produced as many of the Kill Team set as they have Dominion, and that's still available online.

I think that says as much about the size of the market for Dominion as anything, and I say this as somebody that *bought* Dominion.

Billicus wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

They said they've produced as many of the Kill Team set as they have Dominion, and that's still available online.

I think that says as much about the size of the market for Dominion as anything, and I say this as somebody that *bought* Dominion.

SELLING FAST!!!!

They said they made loads of Hexfire too and that barely lasted five minutes despite GK and TS not being the most popular armies.

Source on the Hexfire bit?

And really, that wasn't going to last. Battleboxes rarely if ever do.

They never said anything about making loads of Hexfire.

They did say they made similar quantities of the KT box to Dominion, Dominion is still available so I expect this box won't sell out immediately. Even if you assume that Dominion didn't sell well or they overproduced it relative to the size of the game community, I think its fair to assume that the KT box won't necessarily sell like hotcakes, especially if this is proced at 125 GBP/199 USD - theres only 20 actual minis in it and a frighteningly large segment of the community doesn't consider terrain to be a meaningful return on value. Beneficial splits will be hard to come by as while everyone will want Kriegers and some may want Kommandos, few will want Ork terrain and finding people to carve up the contents of the box with in a way that gets the cost of the Kommamdos/Kriegers down below what it'll probably cost for those kits individually when they release in 3 months will be tough.

As for why its a two week preorder window, its for logistics purposes. The size of the production lot is larger than normal, which means it takes more time to push the product out of their warehouse and get it everywhere it needs to be by release day. It has nothing to do with giving people more time to order it, thats just a side effect of the process.

chaos0xomega wrote:
They never said anything about making loads of Hexfire.
a frighteningly large segment of the community doesn't consider terrain to be a meaningful return on value

Are you implying it is?

I play at my local club, I have no need of terrain, at all.
In spite of that I already have some terrain anyway. Enough terrain for a game.
So terrain absolutely is worthless for me.

If this starterset didn't have 3d terrain, and instead had a cardboard map like the original Necromunda or Pariah Nexus, at a correspondingly cheaper price, I'd probably buy it then.

Do we know the box cost?

£125 is the rumour

I assume much more than the previous one, this one has significantly more terrain and paper.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
£125 is the rumour

I assume a lot of that is the new model tax.

A lot of it comes from the terrain. Which is unfortunate because I have zero interest in such things.