Switch Theme:

Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





What nerf that was?

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






tneva82 wrote:
What nerf that was?

GW devs told the ITC head judge that MWBD and similar abilities wore off when a unit was removed from the table and entered again as if coming from reinforcements. They walked it back as you will know from the VoD/Da Jump FAQ.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

I had a very successful game this weekend vs my friend's Imperial Fists Seigebreaker Cohort list using my Seraptek Gunline at 2k points
List
Spoiler:

Lord w/ Veil of Darkness
Overlord, Warlord, Immortal Pride

x10 Tesla Immortals
x10 Tesla Immortals
x10 Gauss Immortals

Triarch Stalker

x6 Destroyers

Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark

Super Heavy Aux Detatchment

Seraptek Heavy Construct with Singularity Generators



Long story short, we both deployed aggressively, intending to strike a decisive turn 1 blow. The Necrons got initiative, and blew 6 devastator centurions off the board, and a squad of heavy bolter devastators (The whole seigebreaker cohort) as a proverbial KALI-MA, ripping the heart out of the fists army. The fists turn 1 was ineffective, failing to score first strike, reducing my destroyers to 1 model, and one squad of immortals to 2 models.
Game was over bottom of turn 2, as still no Necron squads had been destroyed, reanimations were effective, and they were up on points.

Why do I mention this? The meta for many marines is shifting towards Aggressors and Centurions, neither of which has an invuln save base.
We're very, VERY good at killing such targets with the right units.

On another nice note, for once in it's life, the Seraptek actually probably over-performed. So thats cool.

Bedouin Dynasty: 9000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4k pts
The Emperor's Finest 3k pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





What dep rules you used? Here it's 1 side deploys first and goes first so either you seized(luck), opponent played poorly counting on seize or you use some other method(this one is good to reduce this sort of 1st turn alpha)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There's coming tournament next month. No mention of style so I presume competive. I want to bring the pylon in(hey expensive model and going to be fairly new painting wise...). How about this?
Spoiler:

Battallion: nephrek

command barge(gauss cannon, warscythe, lightning field, skin of living gold)

Tough as hell model as long as not facing spam of D1/D2 attacks. Gauss cannon due to model(2nd hand) coming with it only. Then again with BS2+ not too bad.

Cryptek w/canoptek cloak, veil of darkness

2x10 tesla immortal

7xtesla immortal

4xscarab

3xscarab

6xdestroyers

3xdda

super heavy auxiliary: nihilik

pylon


Nihilik for pylon for the +1 saving throw stratagem if I expect to face heavy bombardment(too bad it doesn't help the inv bubble ). 2 CP bit steep with just 7CP to begin with so not going to use if I feel don't need. But 4++ on pylon sounds useful. And don't think other faction stratagems are any use for it anyway.

7 tesla squad to fit 4 scarab swarms into the list for some screening.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/21 15:18:32


https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

tneva82 wrote:
What dep rules you used? Here it's 1 side deploys first and goes first so either you seized(luck), opponent played poorly counting on seize or you use some other method(this one is good to reduce this sort of 1st turn alpha)



We used the base alternating drops/deployment, I had fewer drops, getting a +1 to the roll off and I won the roll-off to go first, he failed to seize. We played a malestorm mission. The cards themselves were fairly inconsequential, and the terrain mirrored an ITC-style setup with LOS blockers in the middle.

Bedouin Dynasty: 9000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4k pts
The Emperor's Finest 3k pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in us
Deranged Necron Destroyer





So a small group of friends of mine are going to be having a open game campaign with a single customs character with list starting at 20 PL. so far we have an ork player, eldar player, and a guard player and myself with necron.

At 20 PL its pretty limiting on what to bring but mostly i was thinking about the custom character (starting at hero and growing as it gets exp). I'm thinking of cryptek with cloak and go "fast" with a 6 man unit of tomb blades for the cryptek to follow around bu not entirely sure what to give my custom character aside from 2 more inches for speed to keep up. thoughts? suggestions?

It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.  
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

Oberron wrote:
So a small group of friends of mine are going to be having a open game campaign with a single customs character with list starting at 20 PL. so far we have an ork player, eldar player, and a guard player and myself with necron.

At 20 PL its pretty limiting on what to bring but mostly i was thinking about the custom character (starting at hero and growing as it gets exp). I'm thinking of cryptek with cloak and go "fast" with a 6 man unit of tomb blades for the cryptek to follow around bu not entirely sure what to give my custom character aside from 2 more inches for speed to keep up. thoughts? suggestions?
What are the rules for Custom Character Creation?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Check chapter approved 2018

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






Oberron wrote:
So a small group of friends of mine are going to be having a open game campaign with a single customs character with list starting at 20 PL. so far we have an ork player, eldar player, and a guard player and myself with necron.

At 20 PL its pretty limiting on what to bring but mostly i was thinking about the custom character (starting at hero and growing as it gets exp). I'm thinking of cryptek with cloak and go "fast" with a 6 man unit of tomb blades for the cryptek to follow around bu not entirely sure what to give my custom character aside from 2 more inches for speed to keep up. thoughts? suggestions?

If you want to maximize the efficiency of the build you'll want to select the most powerful base hero and then build on top of that or go heavily into making a support character. If you select a Cryptek or Lord you'll get very little benefit from personal upgrades and even if you just make a buffing hero you'll have your hero destroyed relatively easily by Eldar snipers and psychic powers. That said there's nothing wrong with picking something cool if your friends are doing the same, I would actually recommend you all get together and roll for the traits of your heroes, that's going to limit the amount of OP builds people produce. The more powerful CHARACTER datasheets for the Necrons are the Catacomb Command Barge, Destroyer Lord and Transcendent C'tan. The Transcendent C'tan cannot get a WL trait or Relic but they can still get pretty nasty, Overlords are okay if you don't have any of the former 3.

The following are good for a Catacomb Command Barge, Destroyer Lord and Transcendent C'tan and decent for an Overlord:

Spoiler:
Grudge: You can re-roll any hit, wound and damage rolls made for this model’s attacks that target the enemy Warlord.

Resilient: Each time this model loses a wound, roll a dice; on a 5+ it does not lose that wound.

Stealth Assault: Enemy units cannot fire Overwatch at this model.

Indomitable: All damage suffered by this model is halved (rounding up).

Strike and Fade: After this model has fought in the Fight phase, it can immediately pile in D3+3" in any direction, not just towards the closest enemy model.

Finely Balanced: Pick one of this model’s melee weapons. Add the following ability to that weapon: ‘Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.’

Shredder: Pick one of this model’s melee weapons. Add the following ability to that weapon: ‘You can re-roll failed wound rolls for attacks made with this weapon.’

Heirloom: Pick one of this model’s melee weapons. Add the following ability to that weapon: ‘Each unmodified hit roll of 6 made for attacks with this weapon scores 2 hits instead of 1’.

Artificer Weapon: Pick one of this model’s weapons. Add 1 to that weapon’s Damage characteristic.

Toughened Armour: Improve this model’s Save characteristic by 1 (e.g. Sv 5+ will become Sv 4+), to a maximum of 2+.

Divine Protection: Improve this model’s invulnerable save by 1 (e.g. an invulnerable save of 5+ will become an invulnerable save of 4+), to a maximum of 3+. If this model does not have an invulnerable save, it instead gains a 6+ invulnerable save.


For a Catacomb Command Barge the following are also useful for a Hero, but only if you go more or less all-in on these:

Spoiler:
Deadly Marksman: Add 1 to the Damage characteristic of ranged weapons used by this model.

Sundering Shots: Each wound roll of 6+ made for this model’s ranged attacks inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.

Keen Eye: This model can target enemy CHARACTER units in the Shooting phase even if they are not the closest enemy model.

Auto-loader: Pick one of this model’s ranged weapons. Increase the number of shots this weapon makes by 1 (e.g. a Pistol 1 weapon becomes a Pistol 2 weapon).

Penetrator Rounds: Pick one of this model’s ranged weapons. Improve that weapon’s AP characteristic by 1 (e.g. AP -1 becomes AP -2)


The following are going to be good for later upgrades or if you decide to take a Lord or Cryptek as your Hero:

Spoiler:
Inspirational Fighter: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 in the Fight phase for friendly <SUB-FACTION> units within 6" of this model.

Targeting Augury: Enemy units do not gain the benefit of cover to their saving throws against attacks made by friendly <SUBFACTION> units within 6" of this model when the attack is made.

Directed Fire: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 in the Shooting phase for friendly <SUB-FACTION> units within 6" of this model.

Reactive Tactics: This model, and friendly <SUB-FACTION> units within 6" of them, can charge even if they Fell Back that turn.

Direct Fire: Each time you make a wound roll of 6+ in the Shooting phase for a friendly <SUB-FACTION> unit within 6" of this
model, the AP characteristic of that attack is improved by 1 (e.g. AP -1 becomes AP -2).


The following are our good relics for a Hero: Voidreaper, Lightning Field (Catacomb Command Barge), The Nightmare Shroud, The Veil of Darkness (must-have somewhere in your list as you go up in PL, only mandatory if you go the support route early on), The Nanoscarab Casket, The Abyssal Staff (Cryptek with Canoptek Cloak), The Voltaic Staff (Catacomb Command Barge with Merciless Tyrant only), The Blood Scythe.

I'll leave 6 suggested builds below:

Spoiler:
Mephrit sniper Catacomb Command Barge Hero WL with a Relic. Take tesla cannon and staff of light. Replace staff of light with The Voltaic Staff Relic. Take the Merciless Tyrant Warlord Trait. His Hero traits will be Deadly Marksman for himself Penetrator Rounds, Artificer Weapon and Sundering Shots for his tesla cannon.

The hard to hit Nephrekh Catacomb Command Barge Hero WL with a Relic. Take a gauss cannon and warscythe. Take the Lightning Field Relic. Take the Skin of Living Gold Warlord Trait. His Hero traits will be Resilient, Stealth Assault, Indomitable and Divine Protection.

The blender/support Novokh Destroyer Lord Hero WL with a Relic. Take a warscythe and phylactery. Take the Bloodscythe Relic. Take the Crimson Haze WL Trait. His Hero traits will be Indomitable, Inspirational Fighter and Divine Protection. Blademaster isn't worth taking on a Lord or Cryptek and has no effect on Overlords and CCBs, for a Destroyer Lord, especially one dedicated to blending units in melee it's decent it improves his WS characteristic by 1.

The friendly Cryptek Hero WL with a Relic. Take a chronometron. Take the Veil of Darkness Relic and the Immortal Pride WL Trait. His Hero traits will be Resilient, Directed Fire, Targeting Augury and Direct Fire.

The less friendly Sautekh Cryptek Hero WL with a Relic. Take a canoptek cloak. Take the Abyssal Staff Relic and the Hyperlogical Strategist WL Trait. His hero traits will be Directed Fire, Targeting Augury and Direct Fire. Normally I'd say Fleet isn't worth it but because you seemed to want a build with it and because Crypteks are starved for good options we'll give him Fleet to add 2" to his Movement characteristic.

The Knight-killer (being a bit optimistic here) Transcendent C'tan Hero with Entropic Touch from the Fractured Personality table and the Antimatter Meteor and Transdimensional Thunderbolt powers of the C'tan. His Hero traits will be Divine Protection for himself, Heirloom and Finely Balanced for his crackling tentacles. He'll also have Brutal for his Crackling Tentacles which is rarely good, but for a dedicated Knight hunter at S7, it's priceless. It lets him pick one of this model’s melee weapons. Improve that weapon’s Strength characteristic by 1 (e.g. User becomes +1, +1 becomes +2).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/25 07:09:48


 
   
Made in us
Deranged Necron Destroyer





 vict0988 wrote:

If you want to maximize the efficiency of the build you'll want to select the most powerful base hero and then build on top of that or go heavily into making a support character. If you select a Cryptek or Lord you'll get very little benefit from personal upgrades and even if you just make a buffing hero you'll have your hero destroyed relatively easily by Eldar snipers and psychic powers. That said there's nothing wrong with picking something cool if your friends are doing the same, I would actually recommend you all get together and roll for the traits of your heroes, that's going to limit the amount of OP builds people produce. The more powerful CHARACTER datasheets for the Necrons are the Catacomb Command Barge, Destroyer Lord and Transcendent C'tan. The Transcendent C'tan cannot get a WL trait or Relic but they can still get pretty nasty, Overlords are okay if you don't have any of the former 3.

The following are good for a Catacomb Command Barge, Destroyer Lord and Transcendent C'tan and decent for an Overlord:

Spoiler:
Grudge: You can re-roll any hit, wound and damage rolls made for this model’s attacks that target the enemy Warlord.

Resilient: Each time this model loses a wound, roll a dice; on a 5+ it does not lose that wound.

Stealth Assault: Enemy units cannot fire Overwatch at this model.

Indomitable: All damage suffered by this model is halved (rounding up).

Strike and Fade: After this model has fought in the Fight phase, it can immediately pile in D3+3" in any direction, not just towards the closest enemy model.

Finely Balanced: Pick one of this model’s melee weapons. Add the following ability to that weapon: ‘Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon.’

Shredder: Pick one of this model’s melee weapons. Add the following ability to that weapon: ‘You can re-roll failed wound rolls for attacks made with this weapon.’

Heirloom: Pick one of this model’s melee weapons. Add the following ability to that weapon: ‘Each unmodified hit roll of 6 made for attacks with this weapon scores 2 hits instead of 1’.

Artificer Weapon: Pick one of this model’s weapons. Add 1 to that weapon’s Damage characteristic.

Toughened Armour: Improve this model’s Save characteristic by 1 (e.g. Sv 5+ will become Sv 4+), to a maximum of 2+.

Divine Protection: Improve this model’s invulnerable save by 1 (e.g. an invulnerable save of 5+ will become an invulnerable save of 4+), to a maximum of 3+. If this model does not have an invulnerable save, it instead gains a 6+ invulnerable save.


For a Catacomb Command Barge the following are also useful for a Hero, but only if you go more or less all-in on these:

Spoiler:
Deadly Marksman: Add 1 to the Damage characteristic of ranged weapons used by this model.

Sundering Shots: Each wound roll of 6+ made for this model’s ranged attacks inflicts 1 mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage.

Keen Eye: This model can target enemy CHARACTER units in the Shooting phase even if they are not the closest enemy model.

Auto-loader: Pick one of this model’s ranged weapons. Increase the number of shots this weapon makes by 1 (e.g. a Pistol 1 weapon becomes a Pistol 2 weapon).

Penetrator Rounds: Pick one of this model’s ranged weapons. Improve that weapon’s AP characteristic by 1 (e.g. AP -1 becomes AP -2)


The following are going to be good for later upgrades or if you decide to take a Lord or Cryptek as your Hero:

Spoiler:
Inspirational Fighter: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 in the Fight phase for friendly <SUB-FACTION> units within 6" of this model.

Targeting Augury: Enemy units do not gain the benefit of cover to their saving throws against attacks made by friendly <SUBFACTION> units within 6" of this model when the attack is made.

Directed Fire: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 in the Shooting phase for friendly <SUB-FACTION> units within 6" of this model.

Reactive Tactics: This model, and friendly <SUB-FACTION> units within 6" of them, can charge even if they Fell Back that turn.

Direct Fire: Each time you make a wound roll of 6+ in the Shooting phase for a friendly <SUB-FACTION> unit within 6" of this
model, the AP characteristic of that attack is improved by 1 (e.g. AP -1 becomes AP -2).


The following are our good relics for a Hero: Voidreaper, Lightning Field (Catacomb Command Barge), The Nightmare Shroud, The Veil of Darkness (must-have somewhere in your list as you go up in PL, only mandatory if you go the support route early on), The Nanoscarab Casket, The Abyssal Staff (Cryptek with Canoptek Cloak), The Voltaic Staff (Catacomb Command Barge with Merciless Tyrant only), The Blood Scythe.

I'll leave 6 suggested builds below:

Spoiler:
Mephrit sniper Catacomb Command Barge Hero WL with a Relic. Take tesla cannon and staff of light. Replace staff of light with The Voltaic Staff Relic. Take the Merciless Tyrant Warlord Trait. His Hero traits will be Deadly Marksman for himself Penetrator Rounds, Artificer Weapon and Sundering Shots for his tesla cannon.

The hard to hit Nephrekh Catacomb Command Barge Hero WL with a Relic. Take a gauss cannon and warscythe. Take the Lightning Field Relic. Take the Skin of Living Gold Warlord Trait. His Hero traits will be Resilient, Stealth Assault, Indomitable and Divine Protection.

The blender/support Novokh Destroyer Lord Hero WL with a Relic. Take a warscythe and phylactery. Take the Bloodscythe Relic. Take the Crimson Haze WL Trait. His Hero traits will be Indomitable, Inspirational Fighter and Divine Protection. Blademaster isn't worth taking on a Lord or Cryptek and has no effect on Overlords and CCBs, for a Destroyer Lord, especially one dedicated to blending units in melee it's decent it improves his WS characteristic by 1.

The friendly Cryptek Hero WL with a Relic. Take a chronometron. Take the Veil of Darkness Relic and the Immortal Pride WL Trait. His Hero traits will be Resilient, Directed Fire, Targeting Augury and Direct Fire.

The less friendly Sautekh Cryptek Hero WL with a Relic. Take a canoptek cloak. Take the Abyssal Staff Relic and the Hyperlogical Strategist WL Trait. His hero traits will be Directed Fire, Targeting Augury and Direct Fire. Normally I'd say Fleet isn't worth it but because you seemed to want a build with it and because Crypteks are starved for good options we'll give him Fleet to add 2" to his Movement characteristic.

The Knight-killer (being a bit optimistic here) Transcendent C'tan Hero with Entropic Touch from the Fractured Personality table and the Antimatter Meteor and Transdimensional Thunderbolt powers of the C'tan. His Hero traits will be Divine Protection for himself, Heirloom and Finely Balanced for his crackling tentacles. He'll also have Brutal for his Crackling Tentacles which is rarely good, but for a dedicated Knight hunter at S7, it's priceless. It lets him pick one of this model’s melee weapons. Improve that weapon’s Strength characteristic by 1 (e.g. User becomes +1, +1 becomes +2).



thank you very much for taking the time and effort to make your post. i do like the friendly sautekh cryptek build you posted. Why the staff and not the weave for extra T and wound or lightning field with the hero trait to add +1 to invul save so it has a 3++ all the time?

Also assuming i'm going helper surfer cryptek, which do you think are better for "fast" harrasment praetorians or tomb blades? I'm thinking tomb blades with gauss, shadowloom with the tek with them for +1 RP and Targeting Augury, Directed Fire

T c'tan is out for being my hero just because of how expensive PL wise he is and i can't even make a simple patrol with him.

It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.  
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






Oberron wrote:
thank you very much for taking the time and effort to make your post. i do like the friendly sautekh cryptek build you posted. Why the staff and not the weave for extra T and wound or lightning field with the hero trait to add +1 to invul save so it has a 3++ all the time?

Also assuming i'm going helper surfer cryptek, which do you think are better for "fast" harrasment praetorians or tomb blades? I'm thinking tomb blades with gauss, shadowloom with the tek with them for +1 RP and Targeting Augury, Directed Fire

T c'tan is out for being my hero just because of how expensive PL wise he is and i can't even make a simple patrol with him.

A Cryptek is going to fold under any serious assault regardless of upgrades, I like to just take my chances and enjoy the increased efficiency and if my opponent has some light sniping ability that's enough to kill a Cryptek without upgraded durability then that's too bad. I feel like it's more likely that lists are on either end of the extreme, either they have no way to target the Cryptek or they have a tonne of ways to target the Cryptek.

Tomb Blades are far stronger than Praetorians. Praetorians don't even benefit from the Hero abilities or from the Cryptek's +1 to RP rolls.

I didn't check whether the T C'tan would be an option, but I'll probably end up copy-pasting the guide somewhere else at some point now I know the system as well which is nice. I was working on pts costs for all the upgrades but it's a nightmare to try and balance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/27 07:01:54


 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




In anticipation that CA2019 will include point adjustments for Necron units, are there any units folks are currently not fielding competitively for which a <10% point reduction would shuffle them to ‘Playable’?
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





sieGermans wrote:
In anticipation that CA2019 will include point adjustments for Necron units, are there any units folks are currently not fielding competitively for which a <10% point reduction would shuffle them to ‘Playable’?


How about the Tesseract Ark? Or don't we need more than 3 DDA-like units? (it does also sport T7, a 3+ save and 5++, though fewer wounds and weaker cannon)

Still, some sort of change to the core Necron mechanics feels necessary at this point. Slightly cheaper lackluster damage output is still going to be just that.

Shiny 40k 8th tool with colors: dice-hammer.com 
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal




T Ark drop down to 180 would be nice.

Tesseract Vault coming back down to it's old cost would be nice. Wraiths could do with being slightly cheaper. Warriors down to 10pts might give them some play.

All of our HQs need a drop, but command barges getting a 10-15% drop might make me look at them.

Really we need new rules, not cheaper stuff as you said.
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






torblind wrote:
sieGermans wrote:
In anticipation that CA2019 will include point adjustments for Necron units, are there any units folks are currently not fielding competitively for which a <10% point reduction would shuffle them to ‘Playable’?


How about the Tesseract Ark? Or don't we need more than 3 DDA-like units? (it does also sport T7, a 3+ save and 5++, though fewer wounds and weaker cannon)

Still, some sort of change to the core Necron mechanics feels necessary at this point. Slightly cheaper lackluster damage output is still going to be just that.

Tier 1 is meta, tier 2 is off-meta but can win against meta lists, tier 3 is bad, tier 4 is terrible. I think units move 0,5-1,5 tiers with a 10% reduction. Things get more complicated with combos, dynasty choice and the weapons you equip your units with, this is mostly assuming top synergy and you not just taking 1 Doom Scythe because it's tier 1 but instead take 3 Doom Scythes to make use of Amalgamated Targeting Data.

Tier 1 units: Destroyers, Tesla Immortals, Tomb Blades, Doom Scythes, Doomsday Arks, Imotekh.
Tier 2 units Annihilation barge, Gauss Pylon, Ghost Arks, Lychguard, most HQ, Scarab Swarms, Seraptek Heavy Construct, Tesseract Ark, Tesseract Vault, Triarch Stalker, Wraiths.
Tier 3 units: C'tan Shards, Gauss Immortals, Heavy Destroyers, Sentry Pylon, Trazyn, Warriors
Tier 4 units: Night Scythe, Tomb Sentinel, Spyder, Triarch Praetorians.
Spoiler:

Tier 5 (dumpster tier) units: Acanthrites, Monolith, Nightshroud, Obelisk
Tier 6 (secret dumpster tier) units unit: Tomb Citadel

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/29 18:40:02


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

Wraiths are most definitely T2. Much more so than lychguard

11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

No way the craptek big spider thing is tier 2. Lots of LOS blocking terrain is required for this game. Its impossible to move it around the battlefield, unless you have almost no terrain. It cant even move over a simple container. Plus its overcosted ~100 pts. Lychguard arent tier 2 either, more like 3.
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






 p5freak wrote:
No way the craptek big spider thing is tier 2. Lots of LOS blocking terrain is required for this game. Its impossible to move it around the battlefield, unless you have almost no terrain. It cant even move over a simple container. Plus its overcosted ~100 pts. Lychguard arent tier 2 either, more like 3.

Have you tried the Seraptek Construct? It has topped a tournament and I think the lack of more tops is because of lack of chances more than it being tier 3. It isn't bad and I've personally beat a number of tournament lists with it, although I've lost more games with it than I've won against tournament lists. Running it against the original Loota Bomb and Castellan before its pts increase was definitely a trial by fire IMO.
 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Wraiths are most definitely T2. Much more so than lychguard

Lychguard are seeing a surprising amount of tournament play from the lists I've been researching. Wraiths have fallen out of favour as far as I can see, saying that Wraiths are bad is definitely wrong though. I've moved Wraiths up to T2, but I think we've been sleeping a bit on how good (or at least how not bad) Lychguard are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/29 18:51:34


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






IanVanCheese wrote:
T Ark drop down to 180 would be nice.

Tesseract Vault coming back down to it's old cost would be nice. Wraiths could do with being slightly cheaper. Warriors down to 10pts might give them some play.

All of our HQs need a drop, but command barges getting a 10-15% drop might make me look at them.

Really we need new rules, not cheaper stuff as you said.


Exactly, warriors could be 5 points and they would get wrecked by new marines. The faction needs an overhaul. For one, the range band is idiotic. One of the slower factions and they pigeon hole the army at the 24" band lol. It's also mind boggling to me that necrons don't have more deepstrike abilities. They are the faction that warps around with the most ease yet you are forced to play nephrek and burn CP.

Personally, I'd fix the rang issues first. I'd give tesla an AP -1 and ignore cover, otherwise keep it the same barring destructors being 2 damage. Gaus blasters should be assault 2 30" range, gauss canons 36" range, heavy gaus 48" after that the priority would be durability. Vehicles should all be 3+ save and t7. I feel like warriors should be 3+ save and immortals t5. I am on the fence on reanimation protocols. I personally liked the ignore damage more then this getting back up stuff. It's too imbalanced currently, you either get nothing, or the whole unit repairs (usually in casual games) and it's too much. Conceptually it currently doesn't work either, no idea how a fallen immortal from turn 1 returns to the unit on turn 7 way on the other side of the field. Crypteks should have powers from a table again, make them similar to the new chaplain abilities in their execution. The necron lord should cost Much less, like half his current price and be purchasable as 2 per slot like lieutenants. Beyond that theres a lot ot be corrected on garbage slates, but those are the initial tweaks that get the army running properly again.

   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

 vict0988 wrote:

Have you tried the Seraptek Construct? It has topped a tournament and I think the lack of more tops is because of lack of chances more than it being tier 3. It isn't bad and I've personally beat a number of tournament lists with it, although I've lost more games with it than I've won against tournament lists. Running it against the original Loota Bomb and Castellan before its pts increase was definitely a trial by fire IMO.


Wow, it has topped one tournament. What about the other hundred tournaments ? I havent tried it, because i usually play on tables with a good amount of terrain (which is a good thing), moving it around the battlefield wouldnt be possible. The tournament it has topped must have been the no terrain tournament.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






It has no base lol. Not sure it would be that hard to move around.

   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

 Red Corsair wrote:
It has no base lol. Not sure it would be that hard to move around.


OMG read the datasheet for it It has a virtual base. To move over a piece of terrain your model must move up vertically, move across it horizontally, then move down again vertically, and lastly move its base size. If the container is 3x3", and the virtual base is 10", the big spider thing has to move 19", to get over the container. Unfortunately it only has 16" move, it must advance, and cant fire its weapons, and cant charge later. 625 pts. for a unit which can only move over an almost terrain free battlefield

Towering Construct: If this model is not placed on a
base, imagine it is on an irregular hexagonal base, with
each of the model’s legs and forelimbs at a corner, as
shown in the diagram below (if a leg/forelimb is not
physically on the ground, that ‘corner’ is the spot on the
ground level directly beneath the tip of the leg/forelimb).
For all rules purposes, this imaginary base counts as
the model’s actual base; you must measure distances to
and from this ‘base’, no other models can move on or
through it, and so on.


https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads//Forgeworld_Necron_Seraptek_Datasheet.pdf
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Well not much different to knight and those have no trouble moving. And besides wobbly model. If it's still over the terrain piece it still is there. Who says it can't stand there on top of that container? Not the datasheet anyway

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

It can stand on the container, it just cant move over it, which is ridiculous. Same with a knight. Both have large legs, so they should be able to simply step over it, without losing movement, but they cant.
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




tneva82 wrote:
Well not much different to knight and those have no trouble moving. And besides wobbly model. If it's still over the terrain piece it still is there. Who says it can't stand there on top of that container? Not the datasheet anyway


Caveat: I have not played with the Seraptek yet.

But I think this is a dispositive point on the movement capabilities of the beast. Knights are clearly competitive enough in the meta and their base is roughly the same size.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Took out pylon first time to game yesterday. Started okay smashing atropos knight in 2 rounds(almost one shotted. Got 3 wounds but 4++ saved 2). Made right call that there would be plenty of super heavies on last round of escalation league with super heavy detachments and air wing detachments finally becoming allowed. Today there were 4 players(me including) playing and either atropos+repulsor+2 helverin army, 2 questor+2 helverin or warhound armies to face Target rich enviroment.

Anyway rest of game it was less than spectacular. Turn 3 nothing, turn 4 finished near dead helverin, turn 5 and 6 nothing. Made me think of actual average damage output vs various targets and number crunched:

T8 3+ W12 9.26
T8 3+ W16 11.48. (btw for repulsor aka +1 to hit it's 13.22 or so)
T8 5++ W24 titanic 14,72.
T8 4++ W24 titanic 12.15.


For doomsday ark:

T8 3+ W12: 5.15
T8 3+ W16 5.34
T8 5++ W24 3.62
T8 4++ W24 2.72

So with price of pylon being 3 dda you can basically triple those for comparison. So pylon wins out clearly vs the knight level guys but loses vs leman russ style targets.

Not sure if this is any use but got curious about it myself.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal




tneva82 wrote:
Took out pylon first time to game yesterday. Started okay smashing atropos knight in 2 rounds(almost one shotted. Got 3 wounds but 4++ saved 2). Made right call that there would be plenty of super heavies on last round of escalation league with super heavy detachments and air wing detachments finally becoming allowed. Today there were 4 players(me including) playing and either atropos+repulsor+2 helverin army, 2 questor+2 helverin or warhound armies to face Target rich enviroment.

Anyway rest of game it was less than spectacular. Turn 3 nothing, turn 4 finished near dead helverin, turn 5 and 6 nothing. Made me think of actual average damage output vs various targets and number crunched:

T8 3+ W12 9.26
T8 3+ W16 11.48. (btw for repulsor aka +1 to hit it's 13.22 or so)
T8 5++ W24 titanic 14,72.
T8 4++ W24 titanic 12.15.


For doomsday ark:

T8 3+ W12: 5.15
T8 3+ W16 5.34
T8 5++ W24 3.62
T8 4++ W24 2.72

So with price of pylon being 3 dda you can basically triple those for comparison. So pylon wins out clearly vs the knight level guys but loses vs leman russ style targets.

Not sure if this is any use but got curious about it myself.


Good maths. It's worth noting the benefits of Pylon vs flyers too. it'll out perform DDAs there I would have thought. Still, interesting stuff. I think they work best together tbh, especially as the pylon can give the DDAs a 5++

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/30 14:11:32


 
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

sieGermans wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well not much different to knight and those have no trouble moving. And besides wobbly model. If it's still over the terrain piece it still is there. Who says it can't stand there on top of that container? Not the datasheet anyway


Caveat: I have not played with the Seraptek yet.

But I think this is a dispositive point on the movement capabilities of the beast. Knights are clearly competitive enough in the meta and their base is roughly the same size.


Except that knights have warlord traits, stratagems, relics, household traditions, to help them mitigate their disadvantages, which the big spider things hasnt. In addition, knights are cheaper.
   
Made in us
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker





Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 p5freak wrote:
sieGermans wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Well not much different to knight and those have no trouble moving. And besides wobbly model. If it's still over the terrain piece it still is there. Who says it can't stand there on top of that container? Not the datasheet anyway


Caveat: I have not played with the Seraptek yet.

But I think this is a dispositive point on the movement capabilities of the beast. Knights are clearly competitive enough in the meta and their base is roughly the same size.


Except that knights have warlord traits, stratagems, relics, household traditions, to help them mitigate their disadvantages, which the big spider things hasnt. In addition, knights are cheaper.




I've played the Seraptek a good bit. Honestly the thing has good firepower. Tends to be on the squishy side for a knight i feel, and is definitely a little overpriced. Dropping it 50-75 points would be reasonable.

On the plus side,

The firepower it puts out is excellent. Its weapons have good range if you want to keep it away from the Mortarions, Knights Galant/Rampagers of the world.
It is an excellent melee combatant, capable of dropping a full health knight in a round of combat if your dice roll average, or you use a command reroll.
It actually GETS its invuln save in melee
It is really, really fast when it has room to move (i've never had movement issues on an ITC-style terrain setup as long as its on a flank, and not in between)
As a vehicle it can still benefit from damage control override stratagem to be full effectiveness
It has the Dynasty Keyword, so it can benefit from various stratagems like Methodical Destruction, Blood Rites, or Reclaim a Lost Empire (Which improves its Invuln Save as well as armor save)


Bedouin Dynasty: 9000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4k pts
The Emperor's Finest 3k pts

MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





IanVanCheese wrote:

Good maths. It's worth noting the benefits of Pylon vs flyers too. it'll out perform DDAs there I would have thought. Still, interesting stuff. I think they work best together tbh, especially as the pylon can give the DDAs a 5++


Yep -1 and -2 to hit will help pylon. I'll do later that as well.

Another thing i checked. Vs t8 3+ pylon does 0 damage about 13% times. That's why it's only 9.26 vs w12 when in vacuum it's bit under 16. those 0's drag average down and when you cause the 32 damage shot 20 of those gets wasted on overkill(so that's basically 0+12 resulting average of 6 etc etc etc.).

Potential damage is huge but overkill reduces real average as targets survive unscathed or still alive quite often.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: