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Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal




tneva82 wrote:
IanVanCheese wrote:

Good maths. It's worth noting the benefits of Pylon vs flyers too. it'll out perform DDAs there I would have thought. Still, interesting stuff. I think they work best together tbh, especially as the pylon can give the DDAs a 5++


Yep -1 and -2 to hit will help pylon. I'll do later that as well.

Another thing i checked. Vs t8 3+ pylon does 0 damage about 13% times. That's why it's only 9.26 vs w12 when in vacuum it's bit under 16. those 0's drag average down and when you cause the 32 damage shot 20 of those gets wasted on overkill(so that's basically 0+12 resulting average of 6 etc etc etc.).

Potential damage is huge but overkill reduces real average as targets survive unscathed or still alive quite often.


Yeah really the pylon is only making it's points back vs titanics or big flyers. But it will tank a lot of fire, especially if you can get reclaim the lost empire off. Plus I think it has utility and it's the only way to give our vehicles an inv, which helps because their saves are pants. Might even be funny to deepstrike one in with a load of monoliths to give them 5++. Not competitive, but funny.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






 p5freak wrote:
It can stand on the container, it just cant move over it, which is ridiculous. Same with a knight. Both have large legs, so they should be able to simply step over it, without losing movement, but they cant.


It's only marginally wider then several tanks that see play, if your playing on a table with so much scatter terrain that large models without fly cannot move between larger terrain features then that's a problem with your table. 100% it's your table. I play with a ton of terrain and while it limits movement paths, I have never had a model not able to cross the table.

I agree, it is silly and sucks that you can't charge models in a level, but claiming this thing is going to be trapped entirely from moving up the table is stupid. It's literally no different then a gallant. Well except it is a gallant and a crusader rolled into one model. I actually think the seraptek is very valid as a decoy unit, it's not really competitive but neither is anything in our army at the moment. So with that context you kind of need to use what you got.


   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





IanVanCheese wrote:

Yeah really the pylon is only making it's points back vs titanics or big flyers. But it will tank a lot of fire, especially if you can get reclaim the lost empire off. Plus I think it has utility and it's the only way to give our vehicles an inv, which helps because their saves are pants. Might even be funny to deepstrike one in with a load of monoliths to give them 5++. Not competitive, but funny.


Yep. Btw elsewhere i was said damage vs baneblade looks underwhelming as he's often one shotting. So minding i did not calculate cp reroll(which helps pylon more than dda) here's simple math showing simplified what happens with my math and why average is tad under 20.

So t8, 3+ titanic 24 wounds. About 13% odds of zero damage. So from 100 tries 13 times 0 and 87 times result. I simplify that it one shots target. So 87 times 24 damage. It's irrelevant do i cause 24(minimum needed to one shot) or 108(absolute maximum pylon can do). This is 2175. So divide that by 100 and you get 21.75 average damage with overkill removed(whole point of math was to get rid of meaningless overkill inflating average).

Rest of difference comes from that zero damage odds being 13.xx and some of the other times(like when you get 1 hit or like 2 hits but roll one 1 to wound) you cause 14, 16 or 18 damage dragging average down.

So while average result is dead baneblade(3.5 shots, hit on 3, wound on 2 and need 2 successes) average damage still bit under 20. Tomorrow i'll calculate odds of one shots as well

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/29/tneva82-daemon-of-an-ancient-world/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




I’ve been playing a flavorful ‘All Canoptek’ List recently, which has given me an opportunity to play with some little-used units/models and to consider some re-grades on existing models from the Front Page. I do want to say that I’m enjoying the heck out of playing these, even the horrible ones, and for casual play these have a very engaging play style!

Therefore, all of the below relates to Competitive and Casually Semi-Serious metas.

Scarabs were A+ at the point of Codex release: Turn-1 deep striking was ubiquitous and they did a great job denying terrain for this, and CC armies were incredibly common meaning bubble wrapping was more essential. In the modern shooty meta where DSing is delayed a turn, they are no longer auto-include material. I suggest reducing to A.

Spyders were D; but I think this was based on recollections of their necessity in 7th Ed. These are solid F material.
-Scarab units pop entirely when targeted now by the ever-present Plasma/D2 weapons everywhere, so the scarab farm functionality is frequently unused.
-Vehicle repairing assumes they are nearby, but more importantly, the d3 repair is incredibly underwhelming for the 50 point investment.
-Psychic denial is only really achievable if the Spyders are pushed forward (potentially out of range of our vehicles) into the red zone midfield. 55 points for incredibly vulnerable and unreliable Psychic Denial is too expensive as a “counter”.

I can confirm that Acanthrites and Tomb Stalkers should remain D; though this is largely point cost driven. Both would need more than a mere 10% drop in cost to be playable, so they are unlikely to be seen in any competitive meta in this edition.
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






sieGermans wrote:
I’ve been playing a flavorful ‘All Canoptek’ List recently, which has given me an opportunity to play with some little-used units/models and to consider some re-grades on existing models from the Front Page. I do want to say that I’m enjoying the heck out of playing these, even the horrible ones, and for casual play these have a very engaging play style!

Therefore, all of the below relates to Competitive and Casually Semi-Serious metas.

Scarabs were A+ at the point of Codex release: Turn-1 deep striking was ubiquitous and they did a great job denying terrain for this, and CC armies were incredibly common meaning bubble wrapping was more essential. In the modern shooty meta where DSing is delayed a turn, they are no longer auto-include material. I suggest reducing to A.

Spyders were D; but I think this was based on recollections of their necessity in 7th Ed. These are solid F material.
-Scarab units pop entirely when targeted now by the ever-present Plasma/D2 weapons everywhere, so the scarab farm functionality is frequently unused.
-Vehicle repairing assumes they are nearby, but more importantly, the d3 repair is incredibly underwhelming for the 50 point investment.
-Psychic denial is only really achievable if the Spyders are pushed forward (potentially out of range of our vehicles) into the red zone midfield. 55 points for incredibly vulnerable and unreliable Psychic Denial is too expensive as a “counter”.

I can confirm that Acanthrites and Tomb Stalkers should remain D; though this is largely point cost driven. Both would need more than a mere 10% drop in cost to be playable, so they are unlikely to be seen in any competitive meta in this edition.

Spyders are 65 base, not 50 or 45. If you think they are F at 50 then I'd be a bit worried about them becoming anything better than D with CA19.
   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Point cost was going from memory. I think 7th Ed they were 50? Or I’m mad!
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






sieGermans wrote:
Point cost was going from memory. I think 7th Ed they were 50? Or I’m mad!

Yeah and they were part of an amazing Formation that effectively gave them 6 wounds, they are the only Monster AFAIK that effectively went down in wounds from 7th to 8th.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Spyders having 4 wounds is one of the strangest design choices. That said, so are most of the design choices in the necron book. Scarabs having 3 wounds, when 4 are on the standard base? Lol, TranC'tan only being t7 with 4 attacks? *facepalm*

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I just want Nihilakh to be redone. Imagine getting that trait for an army that wants to frickin move and most of their guns being 24".

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Yeah, GW really didn't think that one through.
All of the traits should probably be reworked, really, and the translocation crypt should not be faction locked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Spyders having 4 wounds is one of the strangest design choices. That said, so are most of the design choices in the necron book. Scarabs having 3 wounds, when 4 are on the standard base? Lol, TranC'tan only being t7 with 4 attacks? *facepalm*


Scarabs have 3 wounds because they have always had 3 wounds. Its just GW copy pasting from earlier editions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/01 15:56:17


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Scarabs having 4 wounds should have been default for sure.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Washington State

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, GW really didn't think that one through.
All of the traits should probably be reworked, really, and the translocation crypt should not be faction locked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Spyders having 4 wounds is one of the strangest design choices. That said, so are most of the design choices in the necron book. Scarabs having 3 wounds, when 4 are on the standard base? Lol, TranC'tan only being t7 with 4 attacks? *facepalm*


Scarabs have 3 wounds because they have always had 3 wounds. Its just GW copy pasting from earlier editions.


Not always, in 2nd and 3rd edition (pre-codex) they were individual models with only 1 wound.
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 necrontyrOG wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, GW really didn't think that one through.
All of the traits should probably be reworked, really, and the translocation crypt should not be faction locked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Spyders having 4 wounds is one of the strangest design choices. That said, so are most of the design choices in the necron book. Scarabs having 3 wounds, when 4 are on the standard base? Lol, TranC'tan only being t7 with 4 attacks? *facepalm*


Scarabs have 3 wounds because they have always had 3 wounds. Its just GW copy pasting from earlier editions.


Not always, in 2nd and 3rd edition (pre-codex) they were individual models with only 1 wound.


Huh, that's curious. Were they still swarms? Or have some sort of damage mitigation?

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Believe it or not they were "jetbikes" and didn't even come with bases. You could turbo boost bikes for speed back then, so they would fly up to tanks and hook on and explode.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/01 17:06:40


   
Made in gb
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




 Red Corsair wrote:
Believe it or not they were "jetbikes" and didn't even come with bases. You could turbo boost bikes for speed back then, so they would fly up to tanks and hook on and explode.


Grandpa Red Corsair comin’ at us with some stories from days gone by!
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Washington State

No bases, or anything. S and T 3, could explode at I10 for a S3+2d6.
You can see them in front of the picture here:
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






sieGermans wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
Believe it or not they were "jetbikes" and didn't even come with bases. You could turbo boost bikes for speed back then, so they would fly up to tanks and hook on and explode.


Grandpa Red Corsair comin’ at us with some stories from days gone by!


LOL I mean I am getting grey hair but I am only 34, I just started young

   
Made in ca
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot





Ah, Raiders!
I tried putting together a pure old school Raiders list, the models are hard to find!
I only managed to get 6 of the old lawn chair Destroyers. Its weird to see Destroyers on small flying bases!
In a perfect world, I'd have a full Necron Raiders army,,
Lord
Immortals
Warriors
Scarabs (one per base, to fit modern rules)
Destroyers
I think that was the entire faction back then.

Girl Gamers are the best! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Scarabs had an insane T value too didn't they? That's what I've been told anyway.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Washington State

Blndmage wrote:Ah, Raiders!
I tried putting together a pure old school Raiders list, the models are hard to find!
I only managed to get 6 of the old lawn chair Destroyers. Its weird to see Destroyers on small flying bases!
In a perfect world, I'd have a full Necron Raiders army,,
Lord
Immortals
Warriors
Scarabs (one per base, to fit modern rules)
Destroyers
I think that was the entire faction back then.


My whole army is the old school metals, sans vehicles of course. I'm around 5,000 pts or so.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Scarabs had an insane T value too didn't they? That's what I've been told anyway.

The second edition rules ones did, to represent how small and hard to hit they were.
   
Made in ca
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot





 necrontyrOG wrote:
Blndmage wrote:Ah, Raiders!
I tried putting together a pure old school Raiders list, the models are hard to find!
I only managed to get 6 of the old lawn chair Destroyers. Its weird to see Destroyers on small flying bases!
In a perfect world, I'd have a full Necron Raiders army,,
Lord
Immortals
Warriors
Scarabs (one per base, to fit modern rules)
Destroyers
I think that was the entire faction back then.


My whole army is the old school metals, sans vehicles of course. I'm around 5,000 pts or so.


I'm so jealous!

Raiders and first launch stuff was what drew me to the army. I started in 4th.
I assume you've got a MASSIVE Silver Tide force!
The Scarabs, if run one to a base, feel a lot like the old ones, with the Self Destruct Stratagem.
I'm a massive fan of the old metal Wraiths, Spyders, Lords, and Flayed Ones.

Thematically I'm running a 'predynastic' Tombworld in the first stages of awakening.
As many Scarabs, and Spyders as I can run.

Girl Gamers are the best! 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 necrontyrOG wrote:


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Scarabs had an insane T value too didn't they? That's what I've been told anyway.

The second edition rules ones did, to represent how small and hard to hit they were.


Yeah that makes sense. I was wondering how scarabs stayed alive if they were one wound models that the opponent would want to gun down quickly due to their kamikaze ability.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Well being multiple one wound models actually help when opponent can overkill. As it is if it was possible apart any unit you aren't planning on buffing with stratagems etc would benefit from running as individual models rather than combined unit.

Also being tiny as hell helps. You don't need all that large piece of terrain to hide behind...

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/29/tneva82-daemon-of-an-ancient-world/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






tneva82 wrote:
Well being multiple one wound models actually help when opponent can overkill. As it is if it was possible apart any unit you aren't planning on buffing with stratagems etc would benefit from running as individual models rather than combined unit.

Also being tiny as hell helps. You don't need all that large piece of terrain to hide behind...

Especially on multi-level ruins, you need less than half an inch to hide a unit of Scarabs from an Infantry unit on the ground.
   
Made in ca
Terrifying Wraith





Canada

For someone who want to be in the Necron club, where i need to start if i want to build a small army around the Necron Tesseract Ark???

 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Apart from ark overlord or two, 0-1 cryptek, 25-30 immortals and couple doomsday arks is the boring but effective answer. If you still have points destroyers are good as well.

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/29/tneva82-daemon-of-an-ancient-world/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in dk
Deranged Necron Destroyer






 hellpato wrote:
For someone who want to be in the Necron club, where i need to start if i want to build a small army around the Necron Tesseract Ark???

Cryptek with Canoptek cloak, 1x3+ Tomb Blades. 2x3 Scarab Swarms, 1 Tesseract Ark.

Combine the two Scarab Squads, fill out the Tomb Blade unit such yhat you have 1x9 get 2 Doomsday Arks +1 Ghost Ark and magnetize it so it can be used as a third DDA later.

Replace Ghost Ark with Doomsday Ark and get 3 Doom Scythes.

Get Gauss Pylon.

500 - 1000 - 1500 - 2000 pts. Subject to change when CA19 comes out.
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal




 hellpato wrote:
For someone who want to be in the Necron club, where i need to start if i want to build a small army around the Necron Tesseract Ark???


Do you mean Tesseract Ark (the forge world thing) or Tesseract Vault (the plastic titanic)?
   
Made in ca
Terrifying Wraith





Canada

IanVanCheese wrote:
 hellpato wrote:
For someone who want to be in the Necron club, where i need to start if i want to build a small army around the Necron Tesseract Ark???


Do you mean Tesseract Ark (the forge world thing) or Tesseract Vault (the plastic titanic)?


The Tesseract Ark (FW). I'm trying to build a small fun army when your opponent will said WFT because i only think at the same standard necron army

 
   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal





Jackson, TN

 hellpato wrote:
IanVanCheese wrote:
 hellpato wrote:
For someone who want to be in the Necron club, where i need to start if i want to build a small army around the Necron Tesseract Ark???


Do you mean Tesseract Ark (the forge world thing) or Tesseract Vault (the plastic titanic)?


The Tesseract Ark (FW). I'm trying to build a small fun army when your opponent will said WFT because i only think at the same standard necron army


Actually saw a very good list that uses the current 3x Doomsday arks/3x Dooms scythes and 3x Tesseract Arks. It ended up getting 2nd place at a RTT that was heavy on the Chaos Knights.

Spearhead Detachment
Dynasty: Sautekh

Cryptek: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light
Warlord: Warlord Trait (Sautekh): Hyperlogical Strategist

6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

3x Tesseract Ark: Gauss Cannon

Air Wing Detachment
Dynasty: Sautekh

3x Doom Scythe

Spearhead Detachment
Dynasty: Nihilakh

Cryptek: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

3x Doomsday Ark

[130 PL, 6CP, 2,000pts]
This list of course has issues outside of the Knight Meta, but is strong enough to hold it's own.
   
 
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