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Teh_K42 wrote:Daemonettes cost the same as a Fire Warrior, with as many attacks on the charge as Harlequins! They Fleet. Rending. Probably T3, S3.

No hit and run and no furious charge, but I still get the same number of rending attacks with the same survivability at 61% of the price? Sign me up!

bigchris1313 wrote:No hit and run and no furious charge, but I still get the same number of rending attacks with the same survivability at 61% of the price? Sign me up!

They're probably not WS5 I6 either...

BYE

Remember that rend will not be as good when 5th edition rolls out.

- G

H.B.M.C. wrote:

bigchris1313 wrote:No hit and run and no furious charge, but I still get the same number of rending attacks with the same survivability at 61% of the price? Sign me up!

They're probably not WS5 I6 either...

BYE

The lack of I6 is something, but who cares about WS5 when all that matters is rolling a 6 to hit?

bigchris1313 wrote:The lack of I6 is something, but who cares about WS5 when all that matters is rolling a 6 to hit?

6 To Wound come 5th Ed.

God I love The Revisited Project...

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:They're probably not WS5 I6 either...

BYE

That doesn’t matter that much. Nor does the (rumoured) revision to rending. Harlequins have the Veil of Tears, or Falcons to get them into assault. Daemonettes have neither, and T3 models without much of a save will get shot up really quickly. Ask any tyranid player, and they’ll tell you ‘stealers get butchered unless they’re properly protected by tie-up units and LOS blockers, and they're a lot more survivable than the rumoured daemonettes.

The exact make up of the new codex is too uncertain for us to know how a list might be able to protect any daemonettes but without such an ability you’re looking at a 10 point model that’ll die to lasgun fire. I think that explains the low price easily enough.

Now we have some info on prices from bakeneko... Here he informs another poster of the accuracy of his guesses, red is bakeneko's comments

Keeper of Secrets -210 Jackpot

Great Unclean One -230 Leeeeesss

Bloodthirster -230 Jackpot

Changer of Ways -250 Less

Heralds: 50 pts --- 150 pts (assuming tooled up and with Chariot/etc.) we know already the right price, with chariot don't go more then 170


--------

Troops:


Daemonettes: 13 pts each (Squads 5-20 for each unit type maybe ) ? ? cheaper

Plaguebearers: 14-15 pts each (given how hard-to-kill they are rumored as)cheaper

Bloodletters: 14 pts each little cheaper

Horrors: 12 pts each little more expensive

Furies: 13 pts each (flying, etc.) jackpot

Nurglings: 12 pts each (3-Wounds, Daemonic, etc.)the half and 1 less W


Screamers: ? ? 16-20 ? (probably 2-wounds, Toughness 4, Flying, etc)cheaper


Flamers of Tzeentch: 13-14 pts - strong ranged attacks and good BS-skill ? more expensive

---------

Seekers of Slaanesh: 18 pts each ? (units of 3-6 probably), Cavalry, Fleet, Rending, Daemonic Save, etc cheaper

Beasts of Nurgle: 25-35 pts each ? (probably 3-wounds, WS-3 or 4, STR-4, Toughness-5, basic d6+1 Poisoned attacks per model, Cloud of Flies daemonic gift, normal Daemonic 5+ Inv-Save, and Feel no Pain ! Yowza ! Me Likes !) (Units of 3-7 possibly ?) the second quess is jackpot, but only d6 attacks


Bloodcrushers of Khorne: 30-45 pts each ? Units of 3-8 ??
(probably Toughness-5, 3-Wounds each, 3+ Armor Save (reflecting the light armor the Bloodletters are wearing, combined with the armor plating and natural defenses of the Juggernaut mount they are riding), 5+ Inv. Save (Daemonic), 4 Attacks per model ? (combining the attacks of the Bloodletter with the additional bonus attacks of the Juggernaut biting, clawing, etc.) ... move as regular Infantry (6-inches per), but may Fleet of Iron-Hoof (lol), in the shooting phase (so they still retain some concept of "sort of fast", but aren't REALLY fast (true Cavalry-type), as that remains the domain of Slaanesh and the Seekers.
the truth lies between your guess, armour save is 4+
--------

Heavy Support

Soulgrinder "Daemonic Engine/Tank/etc. thing" - up to 200-ish points "fully tooled-up" (like the Carnifex CAN become in the Tyranid Codex, if you spend enough on goodies for him) it's a defiler, it cost like a defiler



Daemon Princes - 100 "basic", and upgradeable to near the 200-pts range with tons of "goodies n' gifts" selected ?
basic is cheaper
-----------------

Those would be my guesses.... so.... assuming that, in an average 1850-pts list...you could have something like this:


HQ-1: Keeper of Secrets -200-ish

HQ-2: Herald (a) - of Slaanesh - 95-ish

Herald (b) - of Nurgle - 85-ish

--

Troops 1: 15 Daemonettes with Icon, etc.- 200-ish

Troops 2: 15 Daemonettes with Icon, etc.- 200-ish

Troops 3: 10 Plaguebearers - 140-ish

Troops 4: 10 Furies - 130-ish

--

Fast Attack 1: 5 Seekers of Slaanesh - 100-ish

Fast Attack 2: 3 Beasts of Nurgle - 100-ish

Fast Attack 3: 3 Beasts of Nurgle - 100-ish

--

Heavy Support 1: Soulgrinder Daemon Tank Thing - 150-ish

Heavy Support 2: Soulgrinder Daemon Tank Thing - 150-ish

Heavy Support 3: Daemon Prince of Nurgle (Wings, etc.) - 135-ish ?

---------------------

Total Points in this Imaginary List based on "Guessed" Unit Costs: 1785


* * * When you add in the extra costs of things we don't have here, unit upgrades or Daemonic Gifts for the Greater Daemon, etc. it's clear we'd easily be able to get up to the stated goal of 1850 pts, if we aren't there "already". So ...basically...this would be a possible (likely?) list using the new Codex when it comes out - sounds reasonable ? * * *


For those that care, the above-imagined list would have a Model Count of 67

Nurgle-Slaanesh looks like a natural combo.

I hereby dub this the "Not-So-Fresh-Feeling" setup.

I'll admit now that I am excited about C: Demonica, and as such I went digging on Warseer and found this rumor round up by MrManson (cleaned up by me):

------

Just trying to do a rumour roundup-thingy. What we got this far is something like:

Every unit is daemonic, with invulnarable save, immunity to Instant Death and Deep Strike (only deep strike within 6" from Icon.). No psychic powers, everything is just abilites.

FOC:

HQ

Greater Daemons
Bloodthirster - Wings, S7, Furious Charge, I4, A5 can shoot 12" S7 Ap2, 2+ save against psychic powers and Force Weapons, Chaos Armour
Lord of Change - Sort of Force Weapon, All Tzeentch Gifts and Shooting Powers, Can shoot 3 times at 3 different Targets
Keeper of Secrets - Lash-like power (Pavane of Slaanesh), Hit and Run, Assault and Defensive Grenades, Fleet, Highest I in the game, can shoot two times (Lash + Doombolt-equivalent)
Great Unclean One - T6, I2, SaP

Herald (2 per slot)
Nurgle Noxious Touch: wound on 2+ in HtH.
Tzeentch Boon of Mutation: see CSM psychic power, but as a ranged weapon (Gift of Chaos?)
Breath of Chaos: Template weapon (Wind of Chaos?)
Unholy Might: +1S
Slaanesh Sophoric Musk: -1A on one opponent in close combat
Tzeentch We Are Legion: Shoot at two different targets
Tzeentch Master of Sorcery: Use two shooting powers, three if monstrous creature
Nurgle Cloud of Flies: Assault and defensive grenades
Nurgle Aura of Decay: S2 AP- attack on models within 6"
Tzeentch Soul Devourer: Force Weapon

3 Special Character Greater Daemons: Nurgle (Kugath the Plaguefather, with Blessing of Pus and Nurgling Infestation), Tzeentch (Oracle of Tzeentch, monstrous creature with 1 wound), Undivided (?)

4 Special Character Heralds: Nurgle (Epidemius), Tzeentch (The Changeling), Khorne, Slaanesh (The Masque, with Eternal Dance, 3+ inv.save, two Lash-like powers in the shooting phase)

Elite

Flamers
Flesh hounds (w/special character)
Fiends of Slaanesh (W2)
Beast of nurgle (FNP and poisoned attack)

troop

Daemonettes (Fleet, Rending, Less cost then Lesser Daemons, 5-20)
Bloodletters (Power Weapons, Furious Charge, T4, same cost as Pink Horror, 5-20)
Plaguebeares (T5, FNP, Poisoned Weapons, Less then 13 pts, 5-20)
Pink Horrors (w/special charcter, Shooting attack: S3 AP3, One Bolt of Change per unit (S9 AP2), Cost less then Marine, 5-20)
Furies
Nurglings (low stats, swarm rule, same cost as Orcs)

Fast Attack

Bloodcrushers
Seekers of Slaanesh (Daemonettes on steeds, Same stats as daemonettes but +1A, +1W and Cavalry)
Screamers (as Jetbikes)

Heavy Support

Soulgrinder (modified Defiler, 2 Close Combat Weapons, Mawcannon (upgradeable), Reaper Autocannon)
Daemon Prince (very customizable choice, Lower stats then CSM DP, Slaanesh and Khorne can be better in close combat then CSM DP, Tzeentch can be a very good mobile fire base, Nurgle can have Wings and wound anything in close combat on 2+)

Icons are available to:

Herald
Bloodletters
Daemonettes
Plaguebearers
Horrors
Bloodcrushers
Seekers
Daemon Prince

Same cost as CSM Powerfist for Troops, Same cost as CSM Flamer pts for DP

------

Looking forward to flooding the table with my Khrone demon horde again, though I was happier when I thought all demons could strike wherever they wanted BUT not assault that turn OR strike near an ikon and assault that same turn. A bummer that they might be hamstrung by ikons still, instead of boosted by them :(

But you could still strike in a soulgrinder

- Salvage

Im having terribly blasphemous thoughts about the possibility of an adversary-esque rule and being able to integrate them with my chaos orks. Not that im holding my breath but oh man i would be happy

Wonder if they'll get a rule where anytime there are Grey Knights on the board the GK's get "Without Number"...

Stormtrooper X wrote:Wonder if they'll get a rule where anytime there are Grey Knights on the board the GK's get "Without Number"...

Dear lord...

Hmmm...with the rumoured 5th edition screening rules, Daemonettes can hide behind T5 FNP Plaguebearers to get across the board. Seekers are more of a problem, as they'll be able to be shot at over the plaguebearers; they'll have to use Daemon Engines / MCs for cover.

This could be a really interesting army after all! I hope that Flamers of Tzeentch and Daemon Engines aren't the only things with ranged weapons in the whole list though...

Strangelooper wrote:Hmmm...with the rumoured 5th edition screening rules, Daemonettes can hide behind T5 FNP Plaguebearers to get across the board. Seekers are more of a problem, as they'll be able to be shot at over the plaguebearers; they'll have to use Daemon Engines / MCs for cover.

This could be a really interesting army after all! I hope that Flamers of Tzeentch and Daemon Engines aren't the only things with ranged weapons in the whole list though...

Right but if PB's are S&P and the deamonettes have fleet your kinda f'ing yourself.

FearPeteySodes wrote:

Strangelooper wrote:Hmmm...with the rumoured 5th edition screening rules, Daemonettes can hide behind T5 FNP Plaguebearers to get across the board. Seekers are more of a problem, as they'll be able to be shot at over the plaguebearers; they'll have to use Daemon Engines / MCs for cover.

This could be a really interesting army after all! I hope that Flamers of Tzeentch and Daemon Engines aren't the only things with ranged weapons in the whole list though...

Right but if PB's are S&P and the deamonettes have fleet your kinda f'ing yourself.

Ah, I don't know about that. I always screen Stealers and Raveners behind an MC wall, giving up the fleet for a few turns of protection. The fleet is a little added burst of speed for the assault turn really. I'd rather the daemonettes survive to hit combat than get there one turn early.

Still, it would work better if Plaguebearers aren't S&P that's true! S&P might well cause more than one turn delay, especially the way my difficult terrain dice usually roll...

Strangelooper wrote:S&P might well cause more than one turn delay, especially the way my difficult terrain dice usually roll...

QFT

But yea i see where you are coming from.