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Space Marine Librarians can use two psykic powers in a turn and it's a massive deal, regardless of the fact Eldar, Demons, Inquisition and others already do it.

Space Marines led by a special character can assault a possible 24" a turn, and it's a massive deal, regardless of the fact Tyranids already do it.

Space Marines have a unit that can assault after Deep Strike and it's a massive deal, regardless of the fact Orks and Chaos already do it.

I'm sensing a pattern...

I think it's a big deal because it takes what was unique and cool from those armies and gives it to marines. If marines get all the special bits from everyone else, then everyone else is going to be annoyed.

Legoburner, is there a way we can set up some sort of mechanism to collect a nickel for all the mods each time someone panics about a new Codex?

(Should have done this YEARS ago).

When I regularly get tabled by n00bs using the new Space Marine Codex, I'll gripe. Until then, I just can't find the energy to be upset about it.

I, for one, am not upset about this at all. I still despise the need for special characters (why can't someone just have the Sallie special rules without needing that Sallie guy to lead them?), but I think this Codex sounds fantastic.

The only thing I'm upset about is how Chaos got totally bonned by a bunch of unimaginative feth ups when Loyalists get all the fancy new toys.

As I said, it sucks to be a traitor... but my Ultramarines couldn't be happier!!!

BYE

I bought a Space Wolves army off a friend I had planned to turn into more Chaos but now I think Ill hold on. This Codex sounds great and if there is just enough momentum it might carry on into a Space Wolves codex of equal worth

Yeah I dont see what the hub bub is about regarding the sky is falling.

There are some really good toys, and a couple items I think is a little on the overpowered side.

But in general, I would say that this codex is toned down alot from what we saw in 4th ed. no more termie command squads, no more 2 heavys in 5 man termies, forced to take 10 tacs just to get any option other than bolters, etc.

The problem isnt beeing tabled by noobs, if you know half a thing about playing you will be able to just manhandle them(as by pure definition they are noobs and thus dont know the game).

The problem is medium to experienced players against whom you will be fighting in an upphill battle and usually loose unless you can roll unstatistically good.

Also, the guys stating the "people always whine about new codexes" arent really on spot. Much(some are just made by trolls tho) of that whine have usually been made with valid points, everyone can see what is obviously broken by just a glance. Lash for example or the orc codex(before 5th ed) overall and we all know those were right, actually we all knew that from the beginning.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I, for one, am not upset about this at all. I still despise the need for special characters (why can't someone just have the Sallie special rules without needing that Sallie guy to lead them?), but I think this Codex sounds fantastic.

The only thing I'm upset about is how Chaos got totally bonned by a bunch of unimaginative feth ups when Loyalists get all the fancy new toys.

As I said, it sucks to be a traitor... but my Ultramarines couldn't be happier!!!

BYE

I think that was really a response to the flexibility/potential for abuse of the prior Chaos codex, unfortunately.

Kallbrand wrote:
Also, the guys stating the "people always whine about new codexes" arent really on spot. Much(some are just made by trolls tho) of that whine have usually been made with valid points, everyone can see what is obviously broken by just a glance. Lash for example or the orc codex(before 5th ed) overall and we all know those were right, actually we all knew that from the beginning.

People are misinterpreting sarcasm for whining. It's not "Damn GW marines are overpowered!" It's "Ah, GW, there it goes with those marines again."

I agree with allot of these new posts. Everyone is talking about Chaos and also Eldar and orks. What people don't realise Tau is now no longer able to viable in tournements. Tau can win when I can focus and destroy one space marine unit at a time. Now with these new abilities I will have 4 to five units of marines on me by turn two. And if the rumors are right and giving all marines 2 attacks because all have bolt and combat weapon. Thats 30 attacks against tau on assault. and I get int 2, str 3, T 3. Wow... I am dead. I have played tau sense the time they came out. I built a marine killing army designed that most marine army could only get 2 to 1 units a turn close enough to assault. I could deal with that with vespid and many Tau Warriors. The problem is this.. In fith addition with all the new mission in tournements dealing with taking objectives. Makes tau have to move to there death. I understand Chaos Player, Eldar and all worried, I am just saddened. I see Drop pods with assaulting marines, Fleet moving Assault marines. Infiltrating Fleet units (Shriek). Tau is Dead.. untill we get a new book in like I don't know a year maybe 2.


Sorry, I am not whinning. I am just making a point. Space Marines were designed to be balanced against the Demons.

How the armies will deal with this new Marines:

Eldar = Can move and handle this new rules. Player have to become creative
Ork = Da horde they have the toughness and numbers to deal
Nids = Speed and number, out assault them
Dark Eldar = Numbers, assault the marines do not allow the marines to assault
Necon = Shoot and move. Viel of darkeness to a area and kill the marines. Then move and do it again. Use moniliths to bounce around and keep the Marines guessing
Imperial Guard = I have seen this done. Tank, Flame Tank, Flame thrower and vet squads with Plasma guns. Use there armor and barrage and template them to death
Space Marines = Fight cheese with cheese.
Chaos Marines = Feel no Pain t 5, out assault them.

Tau = No barrage weapons except a tank with canister or a Ion gun, but not barrage. won't help - Crisses Suits to few in a squad and expensive and no inv saves unless you removes weapons but you need that, Fire warriors- to static and have no chance in hand to hand and with units deep striking into assault there is nothing to shoot. Vespid, can kill marines but are to weak to really take any fire and also can't fight and loved to be flamed or assaulted by drop pods. Broadsides... awsome but can only kill one or two a turn to easy to be assaulted. Getting a feel for this army... Kroot, to week and no power weapons to be helpfull in hand to hand. They will kill a couple but to darn squishy in hand to hand, Marines will kill more and then beat them in hand to hand.

Assault in this new look in the marines will be fun against chaos but broken against the tau.

Valhallan42nd wrote:I think that was really a response to the flexibility/potential for abuse of the prior Chaos codex, unfortunately.

Done in the typcal ham-fisted, pendulum, overbalancing method that GW is famous for, and now Chaos players have to suffer for another 6 years while Marines get a really, really cool Codex.

BYE

Aduro wrote:Space Marine Librarians can use two psykic powers in a turn and it's a massive deal, regardless of the fact Eldar, Demons, Inquisition and others already do it.

Space Marines led by a special character can assault a possible 24" a turn, and it's a massive deal, regardless of the fact Tyranids already do it.

Space Marines have a unit that can assault after Deep Strike and it's a massive deal, regardless of the fact Orks and Chaos already do it.

I'm sensing a pattern...

... I'm not sure generic demons are on the same playing field as a bunch of veterans with power weapons and 3+ armor saves.

I sure wish my Khorne Berzerkers could charge a potential of 24" in a turn (and get infiltrate! Boy, people would go berserk if that happened). Which Tyranid unit are you thinking of? Do they infiltrate too?

I always thought that Thousand Sons were supposed to have the best sorcerors in the universe (maybe after Eldar). Silly me!

New name for SMs: UltraSwissarmyknifemarines - they do everything!

as people note though, we'll all get over it eventually. I do wish, as H.B.M.C. that the focus was not on special characters - that's annoying.

Sorry had to edit my last post . and I agree with Antonin

In terms of DS and Assault, I kind of think all Jump troops should be able to assault after DS, considering they are flying to the spot, not teleporting or hopping out of a pod. I figure that would give them better ability to steer and hit the enemy.
I would say they should take a dangerous terrain test though to do it.

Generally though, I am still not too worried about the contents of the codex. I am jealous that Marines get so many different options and units, but at the same time I don't expect to see very many in any given army outside of giant games. I would prefer that all codex's have a huge number of different units and options instead of all being equally stripped down.

Here's that annoying pattern in full:-

Rulebook Edition n
'No one is able to do x cool thing that used to be possible, but now we got rid of it to improve the game balance'

Codex A
'Apart from these guys, who get it because of their super duper specialness'

Codex B
'And these guys'

Codex C
'And err these guys'

Rulebook Edition n+1
'Right then! To make sure there's better game mechanics and balance, we've done away with the ability to do x'

New Codex A
'Apart from these guys...'

Now there's your pattern, Aduro

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:I think that was really a response to the flexibility/potential for abuse of the prior Chaos codex, unfortunately.

Done in the typcal ham-fisted, pendulum, overbalancing method that GW is famous for, and now Chaos players have to suffer for another 6 years while Marines get a really, really cool Codex.

BYE

Amen to that.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:We should also stop derailing this thread as well.

It's a thread about fancy Spase Mareins (HURR!) getting fancy new space toys (double HURR!). What else is there to do except bitch endlessly about either it, or how Chaos Marines have been shafted once again?

BYE

You know for some reason I see the anti marine people saying this waaaaaay more than the actual marine people. I think the marine players have said it like four times in this thread and the anti marine players are well into the double digits...

Edited out the flame- Marcus

Very constructive.

Astalado wrote:What people don't realise Tau is now no longer able to viable in tournements.

Eldar = Can move and handle this new rules. Player have to become creative

Tau = Can take Kroot and use Devilfish to move. Player have to become creative

Ratbarf wrote:So shut the feth up and stop saying it if you don't want to hear it you whining chaos space marines who lost all your cheese!

You're a classy guy.

BYE

just my 2 cents in,

unless you have seen the codex you can't really say much, unless you want to pointlessly argue about silly rumors go ahead, there is a 1% chance IT MIGHT HAPPEN!!! if your too worried then just keep saying to yourself, 'there going to be extreamly over priced *rocks back and forth continuosly*'

Cheers,
Gutteridge

Gutteridge wrote:unless you have seen the codex you can't really say much, unless you want to pointlessly argue about silly rumors go ahead, there is a 1% chance IT MIGHT HAPPEN!!!

I can say with some amount of certainty that the majority of what has been posted is 100% true.

BYE

Kallbrand wrote:The problem isnt beeing tabled by noobs, if you know half a thing about playing you will be able to just manhandle them(as by pure definition they are noobs and thus dont know the game).

The problem is medium to experienced players against whom you will be fighting in an upphill battle and usually loose unless you can roll unstatistically good.

No, the problem is Vanguard Veterans (veterans of 100 yrs) having same turn Deep Strike + assault while Raptors (veterans of 10,000 yrs) do not. The problem is Tigurius being equal to or better than Ahriman in the psychic department. The problem is Cassius having a higher Toughness than Typhus. And this has nothing to do with pts costs. It's just all slowed from a background standpoint. 1 on 1 a Night Lords Raptor who's been fighting since the Heresy should be at least the equal of an Ultramarines Vanguard Vet (and of course should cost as much or more).

blood angel wrote:Tough 6 and feel no pain on that chap is pretty haus.

The UMs are getting a lot of nice special characters. I hope it clearly spells it out in the book that these characters are supposed to be for any generic marine army to avoid a lot of pointless 'fluff' arguments.

I'm thinking I'll have to convert an Xavier model for my Salamanders afterall- hellooooo toughness 6 chaplain

Valhallan42nd wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I, for one, am not upset about this at all. I still despise the need for special characters (why can't someone just have the Sallie special rules without needing that Sallie guy to lead them?), but I think this Codex sounds fantastic.

The only thing I'm upset about is how Chaos got totally bonned by a bunch of unimaginative feth ups when Loyalists get all the fancy new toys.

As I said, it sucks to be a traitor... but my Ultramarines couldn't be happier!!!

BYE

I think that was really a response to the flexibility/potential for abuse of the prior Chaos codex, unfortunately.

I completely agree with you and that's the problem. GW's Codexes are reactionary, they're emotional responses to the feelings of over/underpoweredness associated with codex they are replacing. A wargaming rulebook has to be written with an analytical mindset, not emotionally. This "we better make this army more powerful since it was underpowered before" BS only makes the entire game unbalanced. But the "nerf that rule/army- it was too powerful before" mindset is equally stupid. Simply put- GW serves no one by writing reactionary rules instead of balanced rules.

Except, of course, when a rule/army *is* too powerful...

For example, why didn't C: Daemons get Lash as worded in C: CSM? Why did Rending get toned down? Perhaps because they were too powerful as-is and as-used?

I am surprised that those marines aren't getting something along the lines of the rumoured "platoon drill" that the Imperial Guard might be getting next year. I mean, regular guys can go *pew! pew!* and shoot through their own ranks without a hitch and marines can't, even though they gave up their testicles to become super humans that can do everything better. Well, except for the parts that actually require balls.

Hm, might the new codex be overcompensation for the lack of something like that then?

It's official!

This thread is absolutely played out now!

I heard that Marneus Calgar's Leadership goes to 11.

Spase Marinez Haterz, Hurr!!1!!!`!