Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Nothing,

It's just playing with toys.

I don't know of many women that like hanging out in a place where on a given day, they get to enjoy the heady aroma of body funk unless they're back stage at a rock concert. Add into the mix the players who have all the charisma of the comic book guy from the Simpsons trying to impress them with tales of how good they are at the game, etc. and it kind of adds up why there aren't that many women in the hobby.
It's kind of the looking for an Alpha male type of thing, and most women aren't going to find the version they want in a game store.
That being said, I've seen some gorgeous women in game stores, but the guys they're with are the kind that do something else with their lives along with pushing toy soldiers around.
Most times it's people that are college students, military, or young professionals.
On nights when it's people that are awkward teens or older guys living in their parents basement, the women are absent.

Arondight wrote:Those are called fine arts.

I'd consider Warhams (harhar!) a fine art, painting and assembling isn't the easiest thing in the world.

Anyways, I think other than the dramafemales there are the intelligent ones that intimidate the socially reclusive sect of gamers. Which, is why you probably got flamed. God forbid a nurgle-faced teenage boy be demasculinated [sp?] in front of his "crew".

On another note I'm heading off to join the sausage-fest that is my LGS, huzzah!

Since this thread seems to have gone somewhat into the direction of why more women don't play, may I suggest just asking actual women why they don't get into 40k?
That should just about cut through the possible 8 pages worth of theorizing to come.

I know my better half and her sister went into a GW shop recently but felt insulted straight away as the assistant came up to them and said 'Hi guys' (they look very similar and one was an air hostess until opening her own shop recently...).

Kilkrazy- I found the best way around shoe or clothes shopping with a partner is to not like the first item or the second but love the third. Has always worked for me...

Mick

stonefox wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:P.S. The more you talk about how macho and buff and Kewl you and your "rugby playing" gaming buddies are, the less believable you are.
--Although there's only one person in this thread doing it, that really IS a blanket statement. You're not the only gaming geek I've seen do that on the Intrawebz.

I also play piano, am an awesome cook, have girls rating 8-9 with my arms draped over them on the weekend, and squat max 400. What are your creds?

Well, to start, I'm 10 ft. tall and bullet proof... and that's WITHOUT any alcohol in me.

..and I play piano, guitar, flute AND sing in a rock band, I get hit on by girls rated 10 or 11, but my wife (Angeline Jolie look alike) doesn't like it.
Oh... and I Max squat..... Uhh.... 401.


Eric

Arondight wrote:[his is true. And scares me to death personally. Especially at the game club. ...And on top of that, they automatically assume I have no knowledge of the game or its background. I don't know where you guys are, but here in the middle of Rochester, the wargamers are often downright sexist or just ...

Yeah. It bugs me. They're either awkwardly trying to use pick-up lines, trying to walk me through the game (I know what the Speed of Asuryan is. Thank you, but after the 4th time it's getting a bit repetitive) or trying their best to make me leave with snide comments.

Might I offer a suggestion?
I've seen this done. I've never seen it NOT work.

After about the 3rd "helpful tidbit," respond like this:

"Excuse me? No. Eyes up here, pal. I can't see you with those. There. That's better. Look, I know how to play the game. I know the rules. I know my army. I'll make you a deal, though. Kick my *ss, and THEN you can offer advice all you want. Until them, STFU and play the game."

Eric

Relapse wrote: Since this thread seems to have gone somewhat into the direction of why more women don't play, may I suggest just asking actual women why they don't get into 40k?
That should just about cut through the possible 8 pages worth of theorizing to come.

Well played.

MagickalMemories wrote:

Arondight wrote:[his is true. And scares me to death personally. Especially at the game club. ...And on top of that, they automatically assume I have no knowledge of the game or its background. I don't know where you guys are, but here in the middle of Rochester, the wargamers are often downright sexist or just ...

Yeah. It bugs me. They're either awkwardly trying to use pick-up lines, trying to walk me through the game (I know what the Speed of Asuryan is. Thank you, but after the 4th time it's getting a bit repetitive) or trying their best to make me leave with snide comments.

Might I offer a suggestion?
I've seen this done. I've never seen it NOT work.

After about the 3rd "helpful tidbit," respond like this:

"Excuse me? No. Eyes up here, pal. I can't see you with those. There. That's better. Look, I know how to play the game. I know the rules. I know my army. I'll make you a deal, though. Kick my *ss, and THEN you can offer advice all you want. Until them, STFU and play the game."

Eric

Problem with saying something like that is that you're begging for the karmic foot to go
straight for your mouth. After you make such a bold statement your brain wires short
circuit and you flub a rule.

It's like, a universal law, or something.

Relapse wrote: Since this thread seems to have gone somewhat into the direction of why more women don't play, may I suggest just asking actual women why they don't get into 40k?
That should just about cut through the possible 8 pages worth of theorizing to come.

But that would mean logging off dakka and i cant do that, its addicting!

This is true. And scares me to death personally. Especially at the game club. ...And on top of that, they automatically assume I have no knowledge of the game or its background. I don't know where you guys are, but here in the middle of Rochester, the wargamers are often downright sexist or just ...

Yeah. It bugs me. They're either awkwardly trying to use pick-up lines, trying to walk me through the game (I know what the Speed of Asuryan is. Thank you, but after the 4th time it's getting a bit repetitive) or trying their best to make me leave with snide comments.

In the "old store" i frequented we tried to prevent some of that, though we were a bit elitest at times as well. The store owner was a bit harsh towards the highpower neckbeard crowd also. Unfortunatly the store eventually got a reputation as being hardline and lost a lot of business through this and plenty of other things. In a gaming store you sort of need to accept anyone that wants into the culture, it's far from a money industry and you can't afford to be discerning when it comes to paying customers.

"Excuse me? No. Eyes up here, pal. I can't see you with those. There. That's better. Look, I know how to play the game. I know the rules. I know my army. I'll make you a deal, though. Kick my *ss, and THEN you can offer advice all you want. Until them, STFU and play the game."

I especially approve of the "STFU" part. The acronym is just perfectly concise. In fact, just saying "STFU, I know the rules!" should be enough. It ties with GTFO for world's greatest acronym.

I know my better half and her sister went into a GW shop recently but felt insulted straight away as the assistant came up to them and said 'Hi guys' (they look very similar and one was an air hostess until opening her own shop recently...).

Why were they feeling insulted?
Does "guys" refer only to men in your part of the world?

In the "old store" i frequented we tried to prevent some of that, though we were a bit elitest at times as well. The store owner was a bit harsh towards the highpower neckbeard crowd also. Unfortunatly the store eventually got a reputation as being hardline and lost a lot of business through this and plenty of other things. In a gaming store you sort of need to accept anyone that wants into the culture, it's far from a money industry and you can't afford to be discerning when it comes to paying customers.

This is a pretty good point.
Stores can rarely afford to kick out a bunch of people who aren't blatantly problematic, even if they're annoying or unfriendly.

Relapse wrote: I don't know of many women that like hanging out in a place where on a given day, they get to enjoy the heady aroma of body funk unless they're back stage at a rock concert. Add into the mix the players who have all the charisma of the comic book guy from the Simpsons trying to impress them with tales of how good they are at the game, etc. and it kind of adds up why there aren't that many women in the hobby.
It's kind of the looking for an Alpha male type of thing, and most women aren't going to find the version they want in a game store.
That being said, I've seen some gorgeous women in game stores, but the guys they're with are the kind that do something else with their lives along with pushing toy soldiers around.
Most times it's people that are college students, military, or young professionals.
On nights when it's people that are awkward teens or older guys living in their parents basement, the women are absent.

Bingo.

To some of us, it's a hobby like ..I don't know, bonsai or stamp collections. The fact that it's a game makes it a lot sweeter.

To answer someone else's question: I think fantasy draws more of the humanities or the literature/mythology/history-savvy girls because we can identify with it better. If I see a Bretonnian army, I go "Oh, cool. That's like this one scene from King Arthur stories." While 40k is mildly entertaining but otherwise feels "geeky" and reminds us all too much of Star Wars/Trek debates.

"Excuse me? No. Eyes up here, pal. I can't see you with those. There. That's better. Look, I know how to play the game. I know the rules. I know my army. I'll make you a deal, though. Kick my *ss, and THEN you can offer advice all you want. Until them, STFU and play the game."

Nah, I'm usually quite friendly. I normally hold my tongue and wait for the guy to finish. (Usually much, much longer than expected.) My friend's a lot more caustic though. To quote her:

"Maybe if you weren't staring like the uncouth youth you are, you'd have noticed her forces holding off the majority of your forces."

And of course,

"Now, I charge your Slann-Magepriest with Luthor and my Reiksguard. "

Crowning moment of awesome. I think. He ditched the game after his Slann died, claiming that we were being too girly and distracting.

Augustus wrote:Oh, maybe...

But what do you call: Knitting, Scrapbooking, Candlemaking, Makeup, Karaoke...

???

Karaoke!?!

malfred wrote:Problem with saying something like that is that you're begging for the karmic foot to go
straight for your mouth. After you make such a bold statement your brain wires short
circuit and you flub a rule.

It's like, a universal law, or something.

That's true... but it's all right.
He's already been put in his place and, if she did it right, he won't have the nads to bring it up. Even if he does, it'll be in a VERY different tone than initially.

If, somehow, she's gaming against Uber-nerd, who has overcome the embarassment of having a girl tell him off and starts his stuff back up, she just says it again with an added "I thought I told you this ONCE, already. Listen closer this time and PAY ATTENTION..."


Eric

Mick A wrote:I know my better half and her sister went into a GW shop recently but felt insulted straight away as the assistant came up to them and said 'Hi guys' (they look very similar and one was an air hostess until opening her own shop recently...).

Kilkrazy- I found the best way around shoe or clothes shopping with a partner is to not like the first item or the second but love the third. Has always worked for me...

Mick

It depends on the price of the third item.

Arondight wrote:
Bingo.
To some of us, it's a hobby like ..I don't know, bonsai or stamp collections. The fact that it's a game makes it a lot sweeter.

That's what it is for me... A hobby..an escape from reality.. No job to think about ..no bills to think about... gets my mind
off all things real.
As for women playing ... I have played since the late 80's... (yes I am one of the old dogs) and have played a few women
in my time..One thing is the standard with them.. most are only playing because their boyfriend / husband pushed them in
to it... there was a few that had genuine interest in the game.. but once they saw the cost, time, environment (gamer funk)
involved they lost interest.
I welcome anyone to the hobby if the have genuine interest.. but most i have seen would not continue to play the games
after the person that got them into it stopped playing..but that applies to not just girlfriends playing but cousins, brothers
or anyone else.
My wife has little interest in the games... we have our own interests together and I feel I don't have to pull her into the games
to do something with her. She does go to the shops with me and but she thinks something bad had happened in the game store because of the over bearing bad smell.
Years ago a local comic shop was ran by a husband and wife... they ended in divorce and the wife tried to keep the
shop running... Not even a week later after they where separated every single mama boy basement buddy was hitting
on her. She was a gamer and had true interest in the games but in the end the shop finally did close.

when I was a redshirt some 8 years ago there was actually an unofficial policy of not hiring female staff. I was told this by the cell manager that this was because the "bedroom commandos" (his words not mine) have a hard enough time speaking to lads let alone a female!

make of that what you will.

That's pretty sad.
I know a few socially awkward but nice gamer lads, and exposure to friendly women in a social context generally does wonders for them.

I feel I must point out that the fairer sex has it's share of annoying nerds too, though they are a smaller population!

I know a few socially awkward but nice gamer lads, and exposure to friendly women in a social context generally does wonders for them.

I know the same and I just find that it makes them more annoying with the internet catchphrases because OMG SOME GIRLS "GET" IT TOO.

MagickalMemories wrote:

stonefox wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:P.S. The more you talk about how macho and buff and Kewl you and your "rugby playing" gaming buddies are, the less believable you are.
--Although there's only one person in this thread doing it, that really IS a blanket statement. You're not the only gaming geek I've seen do that on the Intrawebz.

I also play piano, am an awesome cook, have girls rating 8-9 with my arms draped over them on the weekend, and squat max 400. What are your creds?

Well, to start, I'm 10 ft. tall and bullet proof... and that's WITHOUT any alcohol in me.

..and I play piano, guitar, flute AND sing in a rock band, I get hit on by girls rated 10 or 11, but my wife (Angeline Jolie look alike) doesn't like it.
Oh... and I Max squat..... Uhh.... 401.


Eric

You're trying too hard.

stonefox wrote:

I know a few socially awkward but nice gamer lads, and exposure to friendly women in a social context generally does wonders for them.

I know the same and I just find that it makes them more annoying with the internet catchphrases because OMG SOME GIRLS "GET" IT TOO.

MagickalMemories wrote:

stonefox wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:P.S. The more you talk about how macho and buff and Kewl you and your "rugby playing" gaming buddies are, the less believable you are.
--Although there's only one person in this thread doing it, that really IS a blanket statement. You're not the only gaming geek I've seen do that on the Intrawebz.

I also play piano, am an awesome cook, have girls rating 8-9 with my arms draped over them on the weekend, and squat max 400. What are your creds?

Well, to start, I'm 10 ft. tall and bullet proof... and that's WITHOUT any alcohol in me.

..and I play piano, guitar, flute AND sing in a rock band, I get hit on by girls rated 10 or 11, but my wife (Angeline Jolie look alike) doesn't like it.
Oh... and I Max squat..... Uhh.... 401.


Eric

You're trying too hard.

You guys sure can do a lot, but can you fly?

ShumaGorath wrote:

stonefox wrote:

I know a few socially awkward but nice gamer lads, and exposure to friendly women in a social context generally does wonders for them.

I know the same and I just find that it makes them more annoying with the internet catchphrases because OMG SOME GIRLS "GET" IT TOO.

MagickalMemories wrote:

stonefox wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:P.S. The more you talk about how macho and buff and Kewl you and your "rugby playing" gaming buddies are, the less believable you are.
--Although there's only one person in this thread doing it, that really IS a blanket statement. You're not the only gaming geek I've seen do that on the Intrawebz.

I also play piano, am an awesome cook, have girls rating 8-9 with my arms draped over them on the weekend, and squat max 400. What are your creds?

Well, to start, I'm 10 ft. tall and bullet proof... and that's WITHOUT any alcohol in me.

..and I play piano, guitar, flute AND sing in a rock band, I get hit on by girls rated 10 or 11, but my wife (Angeline Jolie look alike) doesn't like it.
Oh... and I Max squat..... Uhh.... 401.


Eric

You're trying too hard.

You guys sure can do a lot, but can you fly?

More to the point, why the need to inpress "gamer geeks" with tales of prowess?

ShumaGorath wrote:

You guys sure can do a lot, but can you fly?

Only on days ending in Y.. And then only when the moon is out and only if there's a phonebooth to change cloths in.. What would superman do in a world with no phonebooths?

Port-a-potties.

For when you really have to go (somewhere, anywhere for God's sake).

malfred wrote:If you think women spend more time sitting around talking without actually doing anything,
just think of who's represented on these forums. We do the same thing with a game and a
hobby that we aren't actually playing at the moment that we post things.

Well, we still need a mutually accepted topic of interest to banter about. And in anycase - I don't banter on wargames forums in my spare time - I do it when I'm skiving at work. So that doesn't count.

And in the case of me and my mate, largely the game is more of an excuse. Quite often we'll put the stuff out on the table, and have only got half way through the 1st turn before its time to turn in because all we've done all evening is spout bollocks about crap and take the p*ss all night, rather than actually do any game play. "Oh, lets call it a draw!" is about as competitive as it gets. Which is fine. But if my mate just rang up and said "can I come over and just chat for 2 hours" I'd have thought he'd caught gay!

ShumaGorath wrote:

stonefox wrote:

I know a few socially awkward but nice gamer lads, and exposure to friendly women in a social context generally does wonders for them.

I know the same and I just find that it makes them more annoying with the internet catchphrases because OMG SOME GIRLS "GET" IT TOO.

MagickalMemories wrote:

stonefox wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:P.S. The more you talk about how macho and buff and Kewl you and your "rugby playing" gaming buddies are, the less believable you are.
--Although there's only one person in this thread doing it, that really IS a blanket statement. You're not the only gaming geek I've seen do that on the Intrawebz.

I also play piano, am an awesome cook, have girls rating 8-9 with my arms draped over them on the weekend, and squat max 400. What are your creds?

Well, to start, I'm 10 ft. tall and bullet proof... and that's WITHOUT any alcohol in me.

..and I play piano, guitar, flute AND sing in a rock band, I get hit on by girls rated 10 or 11, but my wife (Angeline Jolie look alike) doesn't like it.
Oh... and I Max squat..... Uhh.... 401.


Eric

You're trying too hard.

You guys sure can do a lot, but can you fly?

Not me but I DO have to brace myself when I fart, or I'll be thrown about 5 feet forward.
That count?

Eric

Relapse wrote:More to the point, why the need to inpress "gamer geeks" with tales of prowess?

Bingo!


DING DING DING DING DING


And the November 2008 "I get it" award goes to... :drum roll:

Relapse!!!!

Excellent post, Relapse. I agree whole heartedly.


Eric

Relapse wrote:
More to the point, why the need to inpress "gamer geeks" with tales of prowess?

The most macho (i.e. fattest) geek gets to be the caboose in the man train.

2 heads: He'd be a streakin streaker.

A lot of girls I know play or at least collect Magic the Gathering. None of them competivily, we have four girls in our RPG club at school of which two are decent looking and one who actually plays while the other just likes to roleplay a drunk striptease. (Four characters and counting...) The other two know what they are about and actually do play.One is really shy and the other is really friendly.