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Deadshane1 wrote:Terminators lose combat by 3 and have 3 terminators left.

An example for why most people advocate full TH/SS and Vulkan or Pedro when looking at 30 terminators. Or even just TH/SS 10 man in your typical marine list. That unit should push or beat the nob bikers even if shot and charged (depedning on how many klaws they are packing). So as mentioned a 400 point unit keeping up with a 700+ one -- with the very possible counter charge on the horizon.

Of course this is kind of pointless number crunching -- mission, terrain, tactics used will have a great deal of effect on the outcome. There's also alot of armies that 30 terminator Vulkan list will struggle against (so no I am not one to say it is top tier).

I would not really use pedro as your basically losing his very special ability to take Stern as scoring.

Now a Master of the Forge would be nice or even dreads.

I just dont think 30 terms are personally viable unless your playing Hard Boyz Level or 1750; 1750 its a tough army to beat.

Very Low Points and very high points it seems to shine.

I just dont think 30 terms are personally viable unless your playing Hard Boyz Level or 1750; 1750 its a tough army to beat.

Indeed, consider the following army:

Librarian - 100
3x 10 Assault Termies - 1200
2x 10 Tactical Marines - 340
7 Scouts - 101

1741 pts

I'm gonna have to go with Deadshane on this one. Granted I'm not sure what is actually GOOD against nob bikers, but this list does not look to fit the bill. Having a LRC to ride around in would seem like a big benefit against the orks in a 1500+ games in general. The LRC packs the firepower of a tactical squad but laughs at most ork shooting.

Honestly, if you want to run a termie heavy list, then just suck it up and play DW. Sure, you lose the 3++ SS, but you gain wound allocation, 1st turn deep strike, Heavy weapons mixed in with assault termies, fearless, and most of all SCORING termies.

Of course, you are even better off if you go with DW/RW combo...

Just my 2 cents

I think large term lists are Viable at the Hard Boyz level of 2500.

I mean seriously.

Vulcan HeStaan (175)
Space Marine Captain on bike w/ Relic Blade (155)

5 Terms w/ TH/SS w/ Redeemer 465

8 Terms w/ TH/SS w/ Crusader 585

10 Man Sterngaurd w/ 10 Combimeltas w/ Drop Pod 335

Troops

8 Man Bike squad w/ 2 Meltas

8 Man Bike Squad w/ 2 Meltas

8 Man bike Squad w/ 2 Meltas

Alerian wrote:Honestly, if you want to run a termie heavy list, then just suck it up and play DW. Sure, you lose the 3++ SS, but you gain wound allocation, 1st turn deep strike, Heavy weapons mixed in with assault termies, fearless, and most of all SCORING termies.

Of course, you are even better off if you go with DW/RW combo...

Just my 2 cents

wound allocation? all these guys have one wound.

Yes..wound allocation.

If you get lit up by Lootas or any other large volume of fire unit, you will be taking ALOT of saves. Thanks to having all of your DW termies uniquely equipped you will lose fewer guys, generally speaking.

Say you have to make 15 saves. Instead of rolling 15 dice and losing as many termies as you roll 1s for, instead you roll 3 dice per termie, in a 5 man squad. If on one termie you roll snake eyes (or heaven forbid three 1s) you still only lose one termie...if they are all uniquely equipped. It is one of the benefits of DW, thanks to wound allocation, and the ability to make all termies unique you will usually lose fewer guys when you are hit by a large volume of fire