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by outdated i mean they have a new codex, which does not include the terror or old one eye.

I see what you mean now... I agree with you on that, but say it's an apoc game for example, would you require permission? I don't think I would as long as it's more recent than 2nd ed.

thanks
if we could pull things from an old dex i would be playing 2nd ED eldar


in a normal game it would, but apoc is a different story
allmost everything in apoc is custom as such rather than official.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:I see what you mean now... I agree with you on that, but say it's an apoc game for example, would you require permission? I don't think I would as long as it's more recent than 2nd ed.

The Whole game is....

Ok I'll be good, I promise.

And yes I would agree with the "Official" codex being the latest one printed, otherwise I would use the 2nd ed SW codex.

Good point with eldar....

I really do think apoc is a different story. It's the home of custom stuff. My point is that I have no problem things that are no longer offical but haven't been replaced by anything else. If something has been replaced, too bad, you have to use the new stuff.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:But in this case, if the creature has official rules there shouldn't be a 'permission granted', right? It's an official entry with official rules, so how can you argue?

Because it's not in the main rulebook or a codex, that's why. The rules never give stuff found on their website the same level of officiality. Solkan already listed what the rulebook says, and it does not include the website.

Then why do we have custom apocalypse sheets for stuff people make up? Bear in mind the post that's right above yours... I don't know if I made it clear but everything I'm talking about is in regards to apoc games, not regular games. That's the reason I think it's different.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Then why do we have custom apocalypse sheets for stuff people make up?

Because the Apocalypse book(page 63) says to go ahead and make custom sheets if you feel like it?

Yes, and page 2 of the BRB, under the heading THE MOST IMPORTANT RULE!:

Page 2, BRB wrote:You could even decide to change the rules to suit you better (this is known as a 'house rule').

So page 2 of the BRB says you can change or ignore whatever you want!

Edit: Spelling

So p63 and p2 should have a deathmatch then?

Ghaz wrote:

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:But in this case, if the creature has official rules there shouldn't be a 'permission granted', right? It's an official entry with official rules, so how can you argue?

Because it's not in the main rulebook or a codex, that's why. The rules never give stuff found on their website the same level of officiality. Solkan already listed what the rulebook says, and it does not include the website.

That would mean you dont think the BA codex is allowed either.

You are making alot of of made up "this is how it is" in this thread but not once have you backed up anything you written with a printed rule. If you want to prove something, show the rule. If there isnt a rule printed, it isnt there. There is nothing writting about asking premission to use red terror, so you dont have to. If people think stuff on the GW website isnt real rules and illegal they cant play vs. BA either. (there is nothing about asking for permission for them either, so you dont. If you belive they are official rules)

So if you want there to be a rule about "GW website rules" demanding permission, please show people what you are talking about instead of making it up. (Hint: you cant, since that rule isnt in print)

Well put.

-golf clap-

Modquisition on
Gentlemen, this thread has been reported. Several posters are violating the primary Dakka rule #1: Be polite.

This thread will be reviewed to see if displinary actions are required. In the interim, it is imperative that the posters in this thread return to civility or the thread will be closed and disciplinary action WILL be taken.

This will be the only general warning given.

This might be a bit off topic, but are regular users allowed to report things? There are a few other threads that are kind of beginning to look like this one.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:This might be a bit off topic, but are regular users allowed to report things? There are a few other threads that are kind of beginning to look like this one.

Yes. On the Right hand side of every post you should see a symbol. Clicking that and filling out the box will alert a Member of the Modqusition with l33t haxxor to come and Declare Exterminatus or Quarantine upon a Tainted Thread.

The Emperor Protects!

I see now... My connection is screwy as that doesn't appear on mine. Damned office network.

Note: Caps & Bold were used to emphasize the words for clarity. I'm not yelling.

Ok ... this thread has really gotten out of hand, I've found the "UNOFFICIAL RULES" Posted by Games-Workshop. And this is the First Sentence it says:

"THESE RULES AND BACKGROUND FOR THE RED TERROR ARE REPRINTED HERE FROM THE OLD TYRANID CODEX FOR YOUR USE. THESE RULES ARE NO LONGER OFFICIAL, BUT THERE IS NO REASON THEY CAN'T BE USED IN FRIENDLY GAMES OF WARHAMMER 40,000." -Games-Workshop 2006 Internet Red Terror Rules Reprint

So, that being said a Tyranid player with an army 1500+ "AND" approval from his/her opponent, in a FRIEDNLY game CAN use the Red Terror.

Now, to answer the other question the OP had. The Red Terror, moves 9" in the movement phase AND can assault 9". He is incredibly fast and an MC, also has Deep Strike and has a special attack. His movement is a special rule held only by the Red Terror, for as far as I know.

So if your opponent, was moving him 9" in movement and assualting you in 9" he was perfectly legal in following the characters rules. However, IF you did NOT agree to him using that model then yes HE DOES HAVE TO REMOVE IT.
Edit: He does not have fleet and can not exchange a shoot phase with movement, that is illegal. He can only move 9" in movement, stand for the shooting phase and then Assault 9", "if" a model is in range.

That is the is the simplest I can put it, with out trying to brow beat anyone with just how silly this thread "arguement" has become. Its supposed to be a fun game, if you want to use something that isn't in the current rules or is something off the net that may or may not come from Games-Workshop, ask your opponent. And if he says no, so be it, that's his right, and you should not be so reliant on one model to make your army work. He should only enhance it when he's there and not brake it when he's not.

Caps are not needed, you can use bold for emphasis.

Also, you can ask your opponent to remove any unit you do not want him to use. You can ask him to remove his Flyrant. You can ask him to remove his dakkafex.

he doesnt HAVE to do anything, even when using the Red Terror. You should, before any game of Warhammer 40k tell your opponent what the deal is:
Player 1: "Yo, I'm using the Tyranid Codex"
Player 2: "I'm playing Necrons!"
Player 1: "Ohh, I dont like playing Necrons, I'll pass"

or in the Case of the Red Terror:
Player 1: "Yo dude, I got my Tyranids here, but I'd like to use the Red Terror Rules from the 3rd Codex. That cool?
Player 2: "Ya thats cool buddy. Say, mind if I use the Kroot Merc List? I know its not an "Official Codex"...
Player 1: "Naw man thats cool."

Or of course it could be:
Player 1: "Yo dude, I got my Tyranids here, but I'd like to use the Red Terror Rules from the 3rd Codex. That cool?
Player 2: "Hmmm, I'd rather not mate. You mind if we just stick to whats in the Current Codex's?"
Player 1: "Ya sure no problems" or "No thats ok, I'll look for a different Opponent"

So, as Much as I hate to keep reiterating this, whether the red terror is "Official" or not has no bearing on if it can be used. Even in Tournaments, if the TO says you may, you may. If a TO or club wants to Ban Necrons, or anything Painted Blue, then they can.

Gwar that's quite simplified, but I understand what you're saying. And I agree, I think alot of the confusion was coming from the old 4th Edition rules where all special characters required permission to be fielded in an army list.

Now, since they're written in the codex as available at all times no matter what, that rule was pretty much obliterated. However, with the case of some Special characters being taken out due to story plot or whatever, then a model being used should be agreed upon if you're looking to play vanilla Warhammer 40k. Or like pg.2 of the BRB says make a house rule. Its simple and easy and really doesn't warrant this much discussion, honestly.

The reason I say your response is over simplified, is because normally when this comes up both players have already agreed to playing the game, now they're deciding what other variables are they going to or not going to use, ie. in this situation the Red Terror. If the Tyranid player asks and his opponent says I'd rather not, then guess what at that point you're right the Tyranid player can either pack up and go home (which to me seems a little childish, but that's my opinion) or he can say, thats cool and drive on with the rest of his army.

Well no, what I was describing was a Pick Up game at a local store say, where you just walk in and see who is there.

If it were a pre Arranged game, then yes, it would be silly, as the Tyranid Player Should have Asked the week before or whatever if it was all kosher.

But yeah, the whole concept of 40k is Opponents permission only, down to even using an official codex. Even back in 3rd/4th edition where special Characters were "opponents permission only".

If your opponent doesn't want to play you, for whatever reason, what are you really in all honesty gonna do about it?

I dunno
but last time I checked the gw site rules for old one eye and red terror (you might be able to find them if you search for them on the main uk or us sight, cuz i no you can find the erratas and stuff)

It clearly stated that you can use the rules for them (and the death leaper, if you so wished) as long as your opponent(s) say its not a problem.

Ive used them in the past and I cant honestly say any of the "special" nid characters are not overly powerful, in fact i would take a lictor instead of a leaper XD, I cant see y anyone wouldnt let them field it...

anyways thats all i no...

If you use army builder which I do because it is required to have a army print out for the tourn's. You can still field them under 5th edition rules but you have to find there special rules. If you have army builder then go to roster then go to roster options and check special characters. It really shouldn't make a difference if you ask me because how many nacron armies do you see with out a night bringer? It's a special character so is most of you chaplins.

the1_2blike wrote:If you use army builder which I do because it is required to have a army print out for the tourn's. You can still field them under 5th edition rules but you have to find there special rules. If you have army builder then go to roster then go to roster options and check special characters. It really shouldn't make a difference if you ask me because how many nacron armies do you see with out a night bringer? It's a special character so is most of you chaplins.

Did you really have to drag up a month old thread? And did you really have to bring it back up with such a badly written post that doesn't add to the discussion?

wow gwar, you dont need to diss his post just because he wanted to say somthing, and making comments about the quality isnt your concern.

if its not applicable to the discussion then ignore it, dont pound him cuz he said somthing he thought was important.

manners people.... manners

Just be careful you don't get into a habit of thread necromancy...

oh I have no conflict with not posting on super old forums, its just the way people post about people, I have concerns about

I have the same concerns as you... Being respectful doesn't change whether you're online, in person, over the phone, or anywhere else. I completely agree, but it's GWAR. Gwar is, well, a very 'special' one. Read through the forums and you'll see how he works. He's just trying to get people thinking and spark people to emotional outbursts. We need those people around to shake things up sometimes. Note the emphasis on sometimes, however.

My Mummy Says I am Very Speshul!

You bet you are... And don't let anyone tell you differently!

Locking this thread as it is over a month old and none of the recent posts have added anything new to the discussion.

Please do not post in threads in the YMDC forum that are more than a few weeks old unless you have something substantive to add to the conversation that has not already been discussed in the thread.

Locking now. . .