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insaniak wrote:

Moz wrote:I don't think it's so much about what helps or hurts GW sales. It has more to do with their IP. If they do not actively defend their IP (even when it's a benign mis-use), they will lose the rights to defend it when it is a serious mis-use.

In this particular case, as I understand it, it's more that if they don't stomp on anyone producing video games based on 40K IP, they leave themselves open to a lawsuit from the people (THQ) who currently own the exclusive rights to make such games.

There is a bit of a difference between THQ and the creators of VASSAL. One Costs money, the other is completely free.
So, THQ cannot make a lawsuit against GW.

They're just being bullies.

Vassal is a stand alone product that runs mods. 40k is one of those mods and it doesnt make money.. PLENTY of games have 40k mods, esp bethesda RPS such as the 40k mod for fallout 3

Does the 40k mode let you play 40k? SUre I suppose, but you still need the rules and knowledge of HOW to play considering its merely a virtual gameboard

I would say that GW should threaten lawsuits against any game store that provides gaming materials for players to use free of charge (Including free to use store armies)

Its unfortunate the vassal owners fell for the bully tactics because its totally unenforceable.. If anything just change the name of the mod and units. GW loves to use fake laws to scare people, like how they seem to not understand that the USA has a fair use law which allows you post portions of virtually ANYTHING.. including the always holy "point costs"

Fair Use isn't as open as you think it is.

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

And then there's this:

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

All it takes is further developement - launched onto a rapidshare/mediafire etc etc site.

Simply talking about it on forums isn't against anything.

;P


But vassal still dies. hah

malfred wrote:Fair Use isn't as open as you think it is.

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

And then there's this:

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

I know its not quite as simple as I stated.. However the main point is that if they want to keep making vassal there isnt a single thing GW can realistically do to stop them.. Its the internet, all it takes is changing a few names around and using hosting websites

I would think doing something you enjoy and playing a game how you want to play it would trump the saber rattling of a super scary international company who cannot do a damned thing except send you letters with big words

... however I guess it doesnt

Kirasu wrote:I know its not quite as simple as I stated.. However the main point is that if they want to keep making vassal there isnt a single thing GW can realistically do to stop them..

I think you missed the point of the thread.

VASSAL isn't closing, the VASSAL 40K group is.

You're right, though, GW can't legally shut down VASSAL. It CAN however, shut down the VASSAL 40K group and website.

I cant believe this. This shows no respect to WH40K fans. Whatsoever. It makes me really sad.

Burn the Non-Spender! Kill the Pirate! Purge the Freebie! In the name of the holy IP.

Hence why I keep V40k on a Flash Drive.

You're right, though, GW can't legally shut down VASSAL. It CAN however, shut down the VASSAL 40K group and website.

I understand the argument and that is false.. GW may have the so-called ability but it doesnt mean they'd be able to do anything..

Shut down the website? How? Just move the website to an overseas host.. group? again HOW?

The internet is such that large companies really can only affect other companies or those with a profit motive.. There is not a thing GW could do that would stop an independent and small team such as vassal 40k on the internet

Its dissapointing they would give up over a bunch of barks

It's really too bad. I love Vassal 40k! It's a great way to play solitaire games to test proof-of-concepts. I've got a dozen or so pre-made boards and can run a solo game in a couple of hours. Doesn't stop me from buying GW items, I've got three complete armies now, and I play live at least 3-4 times a month.

Alas, poor Vassal40K, I knew him well...

Kirasu wrote:

You're right, though, GW can't legally shut down VASSAL. It CAN however, shut down the VASSAL 40K group and website.

I understand the argument and that is false.. GW may have the so-called ability but it doesnt mean they'd be able to do anything..

Shut down the website? How? Just move the website to an overseas host.. group? again HOW?

The internet is such that large companies really can only affect other companies or those with a profit motive.. There is not a thing GW could do that would stop an independent and small team such as vassal 40k on the internet

Its dissapointing they would give up over a bunch of barks

Yes, how dare they recognize that GW is fully within their rights and obligations to protect their IP.

Many of the arguments here are just head-shaking bizarre.

Kirasu wrote:GW loves to use fake laws to scare people, like how they seem to not understand that the USA has a fair use law which allows you post portions of virtually ANYTHING.. including the always holy "point costs"

"fake laws"? Malfred saved me the trouble of posting the links, but it will suffice to point out that the relevant IP laws are all very firmly on GW's side here. Several posters here, to their great credit, have pointed out that GW is very likely constrained by contractual obligation and basic duty to protect their IP within the limits of the relevant laws. Several other posters have responded that, basically, GW is being a big meanie.

It's like a replay of the thread talking about models being damaged by others at game stores; some people posted real life experiences, and thoughtful ways to respond, and others post adolescent braggadocio.

It's interesting how GW goes to such great lengths to "protect their IP" while other companies such as Blizzard protect their IP just fine while having their art and images used all over the damned internet.

And Blizzard is part of the reason that GW has to watch their IP so closely.....GW has copyrighted not only their images, but the "image" of Space Marines. They have to be seen as defending that IP or they could lose the ability to fight it if they ever needed to.....ie Another company releases a video game with "Star Marines" with the same look to their power armor, with shoulder pads, and the same eyes and grill in the helmet. Because they let this get through, they might have a harder time in court blocking the star marines.....

Its all legal speak, but that is the company stance (and has been for years).

Blizzard isn't as aggressive because they are already a largely derivative work, based on myth, LotR, D&D, GW, Everquest, and many others.

They don't seem to worry because all they have to do is tweak computer models, and add it to the next WoW patch.


If GW lose control of their IP, they lose control of their product and competitors can start making models to directly compete.

If this happens, GW loses their exclusivity in their own game, and that would be very bad for them.

But it could create competition for them which could be very good for us as customers, potentially driving prices down.

Oh well - GW sucks - end of story... yeah? hah.

Buzzsaw wrote:...some people posted real life experiences, and thoughtful ways to respond, and others post adolescent braggadocio.

Excellent word usage. 10 points added.

Need I say more?


http://vassalwmh.ipbfree.com/

I'd try vassal if the damned thing would work on my vista machine. LOL.

Ya Vassal is still up and running. I played a game just the other day with a friend over the net. Besides if you don't have it it's not like you couldn't still find it somewhere. I'd be surprised if it's not on thepiratebay.

thesuperiorninja wrote:Ya Vassal is still up and running. I played a game just the other day with a friend over the net. Besides if you don't have it it's not like you couldn't still find it somewhere. I'd be surprised if it's not on thepiratebay.

the piratebay is down, it has been for like 2 months now.

http://www.2shared.com/file/7050478/603c38f0/V40k_V5-2_wwwvassal40kcom.html?cau2=403tNull

Its here.

Pirate Bay is down?

Hmmm, nope. Not to me.

BrookM wrote:Pirate Bay is down?

Hmmm, nope. Not to me.

you're right actually, turns out a windows file was blocking it somehow.

I don't understand why Vassal40k caved in so easily. Everyone is using the phrase 'IP' as if it is an explanation, as if GW had some actually property stolen, but IP is nothing to do with property. IP is simply a shorthand for three laws:
copyright law
trademark law
patent law

Did Vassal40k infringe GW's patents? I'd be very surprised if GW had any patents, and if they did they only last 14 years so the patents on 40k would have expired by now.

Did Vassal40k infringe GW's trademarks? Yes, GW has probably trademarked words like 'space marine'. But it would be pretty easy to simply do a search and replace, i.e. use 'space trooper' instead, and then there would be no infringement.

Did Vassal40k infringe GW's copyrights? You can't copyright the rules to a game. You can copyright the text of the rulebook, but Vassal40k didn't reproduce the rulebook. You can copyright artwork. Did Vassal40k use copyrighted artwork? If so, just get someone to draw new artwork.

For a similar legal case, the makers of Scrabble tried to sue the online game Scrabbulous. They won on trademark infringement, so Scrabbulous simply chose a new name that didn't include the trademarked word 'Scrabble' and carried on. The rules of Scrabble can't be copyrighted or patented, so there was nothing the makers could do to stop them.

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