Oh, Happy Day for Necrons' Codex

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**His Master's Voice**

Kirasu wrote:There is a reason why SMs are a bottom tier army if you dont use vulkan.

Really? I though there were at least a couple of competitive builds that didn't require Vulkan, but I'm not paying much attention to the turney scene for 40K.

**ShumaGorath**

Kirasu wrote:Well then SM is a bad example of not being gunshy.. Every SM book is the same old thing

There is a reason why SMs are a bottom tier army if you dont use vulkan.. and thats because GW is unwilling to do anything to make them more dynamic and up to speed with the newest armies

the SM book was an awesome example of status quo.. as was the 4th ed book and the 3rd ed book.. The only reason the 4th ed book was any good was because of assault cannon rules and tank hunter traits

yay more tactical squads and devastator squads that totally suck

And here I thought unit balance and overall army balance was a goal to be achieved. Books shouldn't be broken at their core, and shouldn't be exploitable at the fringes. It bleaches tournament gameplay into something resembling a magic the gathering net deck competition.

**His Master's Voice**

ShumaGorath wrote:It bleaches tournament gameplay into something resembling a magic the gathering net deck competition.

Only you actually need skill to win in Magic. If all players play with the same cookie cutter lists, skill makes the difference, right?

**Railguns**

And luck of the draw, I suppose.

**ShumaGorath**

His Master's Voice wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:It bleaches tournament gameplay into something resembling a magic the gathering net deck competition.

Only you actually need skill to win in Magic. If all players play with the same cookie cutter lists, skill makes the difference, right?

I see you don't play in the extended formats. Competitive solitaire.

**Sarge**

So my Necrons are either going to sit until the next go around or I'm going to be just as disliked as I am now when I play them. Awsome.

**number9dream**

Sidstyler wrote:
number9dream wrote:
12thRonin wrote:Don't forget the falcons being brought down by kids with ROCKS.

Please tell me you don't mean an eldar falcon?

We are talking about a bird here right? Please?

I think maybe he thought he was writing about a bird...

**His Master's Voice**

ShumaGorath wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:It bleaches tournament gameplay into something resembling a magic the gathering net deck competition.

Only you actually need skill to win in Magic. If all players play with the same cookie cutter lists, skill makes the difference, right?

I see you don't play in the extended formats. Competitive solitaire.

I play all formats, including Vintage. It's in no way of form solitaire.

**ShumaGorath**

His Master's Voice wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:It bleaches tournament gameplay into something resembling a magic the gathering net deck competition.

Only you actually need skill to win in Magic. If all players play with the same cookie cutter lists, skill makes the difference, right?

I see you don't play in the extended formats. Competitive solitaire.

I play all formats, including Vintage. It's in no way of form solitaire.

Tell that to the average game length in vintage.

**His Master's Voice**

You're more likely to go to time in Vintage than any other format. And number of turns taken =/= match length.

**phillosmaster**

I think I might be alone in liking my O&G army book. Animosity does suck, but there are a lot of fun units in the army.

I'd agree that the animosity rolls need something to balance it like some kind of boon when you roll a 6 instead of the blind charge you get currently, which is doing you no favors.

I don't usually play O&G to win though. Just to have fun. I'd never take them to a tournament.

I'm worried that when they update the army book they may take away a lot of what makes O&Gs so much fun: fantatics, squid herds, squig hoppers, vomiting trolls, giants stuffing guys down their pants. They may make them more tournament minded, but they'll probably hit them with the bland stick as well :(

**BrookM**

OH FECK..

http://www.csgoto.com/csgotopositions.html

**number9dream**

phillosmaster wrote:I think I might be alone in liking my O&G army book. Animosity does suck, but there are a lot of fun units in the army.

I'd agree that the animosity rolls need something to balance it like some kind of boon when you roll a 6 instead of the blind charge you get currently, which is doing you no favors.

I don't usually play O&G to win though. Just to have fun. I'd never take them to a tournament.

I'm worried that when they update the army book they may take away a lot of what makes O&Gs so much fun: fantatics, squid herds, squig hoppers, vomiting trolls, giants stuffing guys down their pants. They may make them more tournament minded, but they'll probably hit them with the bland stick as well :(

There's honestly no reason why you couldn't keep the crazy while still being competitive. You just need to have lots of crazy, both good and bad, and have it even out in the end.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrookM wrote:OH FECK..

http://www.csgoto.com/csgotopositions.html

What's wrong with this? I thought it was an interesting read, and he actually seems fairly likeable (and aware of the multi-lasers joke lol). Kind of makes me want to read Eldar Prophecy, just to see if the reason it's disliked is because it's not your standard noble Eldar or because it's trash.

**Stormtrooper X**

I have to admit, despite what people are saying about his writing ability he seems to be able to take it in stride. Goto aside the real thing here are the rules. Has Ward done anything other than O&G, DoC and Marines? His fantasy is bad, but Marines are pretty solid. I know it's their flagship army so he probably had a lot of people "helping" along the way. Like most of the non-doomsayers are saying though, we're just going to have to wait until we have more substantial evidence as to what is in the codex. Not that that would really stop the sky from falling for most people here.

**BeefyG**

number9dream wrote:
12thRonin wrote:Don't forget the falcons being brought down by kids with ROCKS.

Please tell me you don't mean an eldar falcon?

We are talking about a bird here right? Please?

LOL to label myself as one of the "whiny fanboys" that RedS8n mentioned I have not read any of C.S. Goto's works nor do I now feel the compunction to go out and find some.

The wiki page referenced earlier is genuinely funny. I think the above example is reason enough to get involved. Its freakin hilarious!

Bring on "...the freakin shark's with freakin multilazors!"

**jspyd3rx**

Stormtrooper X wrote:I have to admit, despite what people are saying about his writing ability he seems to be able to take it in stride. Goto aside the real thing here are the rules. Has Ward done anything other than O&G, DoC and Marines? His fantasy is bad, but Marines are pretty solid. I know it's their flagship army so he probably had a lot of people "helping" along the way. Like most of the non-doomsayers are saying though, we're just going to have to wait until we have more substantial evidence as to what is in the codex. Not that that would really stop the sky from falling for most people here.

Thanks for keeping the hope alive for my 'Crons

**Waaagh_Gonads**

For all the O&G haters.... The tourney I was at last week I scored 3rd with all night goblins (and no fanatic spam) and another O&G player (mix of orcs and NGs) came 4th.

But I do agree that DOC is super over powered and needs to be banned.

**Gavin Thorne**

number9dream wrote:Kind of makes me want to read Eldar Prophecy, just to see if the reason it's disliked is because it's not your standard noble Eldar or because it's trash.

Don't bother. The novel reads like the author's source material was someone who had played against eldar once a few years prior and remembered the names of the aspect temples. It also reads like a warp spider fanboy wrote it, complete with "WARP SPYDERZ R THE BOMZZZZ!!" scenes. There's a few plotlines left unresolved and some portions just don't make sense when compared to Eldar canon. The craftworld isn't one of the big four and it's traditions are different than the others, but the concept isn't presented very well.

**warhound123**

I actually liked Eldar Prophecy, as it not only portrays Eldar in an alien manner, the traditions, the back drop, all are written through the eyes of something not human- Very refreshing to read instead of the usual "I am inquisitor Blah and I know more about the eldar than themselves" type attitude which normally comes from Authors when trying to write about something not from this earth.

That said I havn't read his human based books.... sold with a multilaser bookmark!

cheers
W

**kanelom**

[edit] Dawn of War series
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War (2004)
Dawn of War: Ascension(2005)
Dawn of War: Tempest (2006)
Dawn of War: Multi Lazerz (2008)
Dawn of War: Necron Menace, With Multi Lazers (2009)

[edit] Deathwatch series
Warrior brood (2005)
Warrior Coven (2006)

[edit] Reception
C.S Goto's books have caused mixed reviews and heated debate amongst readers. Negative reviews of Goto's Warhammer novels have criticised the author's lack of adherence to the established backstory of the Warhammer 40,000 universe. Most prominent among these are the Dawn of War novels which are based on the PC Games by Relic. Another looming concern for players of Games Workshop's Warhammer 40k tabletop game is that the race known as the Necrons, will devolve into Multi Lazer wielding undead, thereby breaking the game with a multitude of multiple multi lazers.

Straight from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassern_S._Goto

**Balance**

You forgot the part about his kids, Multi and Lazer.

**Cheese Elemental**

Man, who the hell undid all the funny on that page? Someone own up so I can kill you with a cheese grater.

**H.B.M.C.**

It gets fixed every now and again. The first time I saw it Multi-Lazor was damn near every second word. Every book title had 'Multi-Lazor' in it.

It'll get changed back.

**Alpharius**

It is one of those things that is totally stupid and yet really, really funny.

I really did 'laugh out loud' the first time I read it.

Got some weird looks at work for that one...

Anyway, the scorn shown C.S. is generally deserved.

But, to be honest, a good editor could ave saved him, and us, a lot of pain.

**Railguns**

We at GW are proud to present C.S. Goto's new take on the Necrons! Get ready, Living Races of the Galaxy! The Era of the GAUSS MULTI-FLAYZOR is nigh!

**jp400**

His Multi-Lasors are over 9000!!!!!!!!!!

**chaos0xomega**

Ixquic wrote:Don't forget the ridiculous miscast tables for Orcs where if you roll a 1-4 on 2D6 your wizard is flat out dead. Pretty much everything on there is terrible and their magic lore is mediocre. The entire orc book would be pretty average but then you throw in the animosity rules and there's just no positive payoff for it. There are little things thrown in like the +1 dispel dice if there's a ton orcs (but no goblin bonuses here) in combat which no one ever remembers or immune to psychology when you move uncontrollably forward (this requires you opponent to put something super close right in front of your units like a moron) but those are are pretty insignificant. It's just a bad book. We all know Demons are super broke but it just highlights that he has no idea what balance is.

People say that he wrote Space Marines and that turned out ok, but really Space Marines are GW's main products. There's absolutely no way there wasn't three levels of management looking over his shoulder to make sure he didn't feth it up. It's one thing when you're doing "the goofy fantasy army" or "the new army we are rushing out to do a combined release with 40k" but you can be sure they aren't going to let him go crazy with their most lucrative seller. I'm sure there was all kinds of stupid stuff in that book that had to be reined back over the course of development. "Hey space marines are strong they should all be like walkers and be able to treat heavy weapons like assault!!!" "No Matt..."

Maybe he's better at 40k development or something but really I hope he never touches Fantasy again.

If you ask me he DID mess up Space Marines. Thunderfire Cannons? REALLY? How does that suit the SMurf playstyle at all? They are supposed to be a hard-hitting fast-moving assault/strike force, they shouldn't be toting around artillery... and there are other things, but I dont want to derail this thread.

Phil K. is the best designer they have now, but even he had a bit of a clunker (Ogre Kingdoms) early in his career.

I am counting the seconds until Phil K. realizes the error of his ways and takes the noble crusade to fix my chosen fantasy army upon himself.

and this thread is too hilarious lol

**smart_alex**

Well thats cool. I always thought they were a cool army.

**torgoch**

Alpharius wrote: But, to be honest, a good editor could ave saved him, and us, a lot of pain.

I attended an interview at Black Library and was fortunate enough not to get the job. However, during the interview process it intimated that essentially there is little or no editing process, other than spell-checking and other proofing. What is published is pretty close to the manuscript's raw form, hence the page long sentences in the Ciaphas Cain books.

chaos0xomega wrote: If you ask me he DID mess up Space Marines. Thunderfire Cannons? REALLY? How does that suit the SMurf playstyle at all? They are supposed to be a hard-hitting fast-moving assault/strike force, they shouldn't be toting around artillery... and there are other things, but I dont want to derail this thread.

According the fluff, my Imperial Fists are siege specialists. Plus Space Marines are supposed to have access to ancient arcane wargear. Makes sense to me, certainly much more so than stealthy or fleeting terminators.

**Barakia**

I attended an interview at Black Library and was fortunate enough not to get the job. However, during the interview process it intimated that essentially there is little or no editing process, other than spell-checking and other proofing. What is published is pretty close to the manuscript's raw form, hence the page long sentences in the Ciaphas Cain books.

No offense, but unless you're a successfully published author elsewhere, that's just bitter grapes. "Yeah.. I'm a programmer, but I'm soooo glad I didn't get a job at Microsoft.. I'm much happier coding in my basement for no money."

As for the quality of writing at Black Library.. They're an in-house publishing imprint for a niche hobby. If you expect to read anything that would qualify for a Nobel in Literature, you're an idiot. If, however, you expect to read something fun and easy on the can, much the same as the average housewife follows Oprah's bookclub, then we can talk. Yes, there still are standards, and yes, Dan Abnett is head and shoulders above DeSoto, or whatever the heck his name is. But neither are high literature, and they both write for a very small and captive audience.