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JohnHwangDD wrote:Is it a actual copy?

Or is merely a competing product?

Having seen both in person it is a bad copy. And a stolen idea.

outriderhobbies wrote:Hey guys, the infamous Bryan Wade here from Outrider Hobbies. Just wanted to stop by and throw in my two cents and answer a couple of questions.

First off, I do know Romeo Filip. I have known him for a couple of years now. It hasn't been fun. In fact to the point that an injunction against harrassment has been placed on him. I wonder what the judge will think of the post he made earlier.

Second, yes I decided I would compete with Romeo. I reched this conclusion after doing some research. I thought as a consumer that his prices were a bit high. Even for custom work. I looked into material cost, manufacturing cost, and still decided that his prices were too high. So what is a person to do, armed with all of this information, well, I figured go into business for myself. In addition, I thought that Romeo had made some mistakes in his process and designs, so I decided to improve upon them. The whole idea of "building a better mousetrap".

I admit it has taken longer to get moving than I expected, but things are starting to progress. So, to answer a couple questions about the Space Hulk trays. First, I find it very funny that he says my trays will not work. Which is rather surprising since the pictures show all of the components but TWO, in the trays themselves. I also play boardgames. I looked at his second tray and said to myself, why bother, I might as well throw all the pieces back in the box for all the protection it is going to provide. So I went to work and came up with this tray http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/555731. Every single piece except for the large room, the control panel and the two rule books fits in this tray. The sides are a bit thinner than I would like, I admit that, but figured since the tray most likely will not leave the box, it should not be an issue.

As for the quality of my products, I will leave that to the public to decide. I am about to ship some to people who ordered from me through BoardGameGeek.com.

And what the heck, I will send a 1" tray (Sabol sized) to the first 20 people that PM me. I will do this free of charge. Not even shipping. The only thing I ask is that you post your thoughts on DakkaDakka. Just specify in your email if you would like a 40 man (1x1.5" cuts) or 30 man (1x2"). And include your shipping info.

This whole post bothers the living crap out of me on so many levels it sends a chill down my spine. First you say you have known Romeo for many years and you have had issues with him before? He has done blah blah to you.... So you decided to go in the same business as him why? Because you think there are errors in his work? Give me a break! Because you think you have came up with a low cost business plan? Be honest It really seems like you are a person using the law to make someone’s life difficult and manipulate certain things to put him in those positions.

Reminds me of those Tv shows that always show the guy with restraining order on his ex girlfriend but all of a sudden takes a job that works on site as his ex to make her life miserable.

Yes, Romeo is passionate about his business and defends it with pride just as any young business men would do. Anyone with half a brain can see that with the previous articles that people have posted about his previous history in the bat business. He isn't being unprofessional as any young gun in the new business and people thinking he is being unprofessional should actually be thankful for him defending something that he is such passionate about.

I see this post and be honest I hope people will see something is up and stay away from someone like this. It just feels so unethical and manipulative under the guise....

Darkwynn wrote:

outriderhobbies wrote:Hey guys, the infamous Bryan Wade here from Outrider Hobbies. Just wanted to stop by and throw in my two cents and answer a couple of questions.

First off, I do know Romeo Filip. I have known him for a couple of years now. It hasn't been fun. In fact to the point that an injunction against harrassment has been placed on him. I wonder what the judge will think of the post he made earlier.

Second, yes I decided I would compete with Romeo. I reched this conclusion after doing some research. I thought as a consumer that his prices were a bit high. Even for custom work. I looked into material cost, manufacturing cost, and still decided that his prices were too high. So what is a person to do, armed with all of this information, well, I figured go into business for myself. In addition, I thought that Romeo had made some mistakes in his process and designs, so I decided to improve upon them. The whole idea of "building a better mousetrap".

I admit it has taken longer to get moving than I expected, but things are starting to progress. So, to answer a couple questions about the Space Hulk trays. First, I find it very funny that he says my trays will not work. Which is rather surprising since the pictures show all of the components but TWO, in the trays themselves. I also play boardgames. I looked at his second tray and said to myself, why bother, I might as well throw all the pieces back in the box for all the protection it is going to provide. So I went to work and came up with this tray http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/555731. Every single piece except for the large room, the control panel and the two rule books fits in this tray. The sides are a bit thinner than I would like, I admit that, but figured since the tray most likely will not leave the box, it should not be an issue.

As for the quality of my products, I will leave that to the public to decide. I am about to ship some to people who ordered from me through BoardGameGeek.com.

And what the heck, I will send a 1" tray (Sabol sized) to the first 20 people that PM me. I will do this free of charge. Not even shipping. The only thing I ask is that you post your thoughts on DakkaDakka. Just specify in your email if you would like a 40 man (1x1.5" cuts) or 30 man (1x2"). And include your shipping info.

This whole post bothers the living crap out of me on so many levels it sends a chill down my spine. First you say you have known Romeo for many years and you have had issues with him before? He has done blah blah to you.... So you decided to go in the same business as him why? Because you think there are errors in his work? Give me a break! Because you think you have came up with a low cost business plan? Be honest It really seems like you are a person using the law to make someone’s life difficult and manipulate certain things to put him in those positions.

Reminds me of those Tv shows that always show the guy with restraining order on his ex girlfriend but all of a sudden takes a job that works on site as his ex to make her life miserable.

Yes, Romeo is passionate about his business and defends it with pride just as any young business men would do. Anyone with half a brain can see that with the previous articles that people have posted about his previous history in the bat business. He isn't being unprofessional as any young gun in the new business and people thinking he is being unprofessional should actually be thankful for him defending something that he is such passionate about.

I see this post and be honest I hope people will see something is up and stay away from someone like this. It just feels so unethical and manipulative under the guise....

Your insight is spot on

Yep bottom sections are a total rip off. /sarcasm

http://battlefoam.com/images/SpaceHulkBoxTray.jpg
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/555731

and a close look at the top sections show them to be similar, but still different products.

And a stolen idea.

please it is no more a stolen idea then making after market foam for sabol, and GW cases.
I applaud Romeo for making a product that people want. If a competitor wants to bring a similar product at a more reasonable price than I applaud that also.

neiltj1 wrote:Yep bottom sections are a total rip off. /sarcasm

http://battlefoam.com/images/SpaceHulkBoxTray.jpg
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/555731

and a close look at the top sections show them to be similar, but still different products.

And a stolen idea.

please it is no more a stolen idea then making after market foam for sabol, and GW cases.
I applaud Romeo for making a product that people want. If a competitor wants to bring a similar product at a more reasonable price than I applaud that also.

Funny I did not know you were a patent lawyer.......

@ Cato: I'm not saying romeo does or does not have the right to be annoyed, I dont know enough about either buisness or thier respective histories to comment on that, I was just pointing out to those folk whom argued that he was not hot headed that taking your anger to a public forum in the manner he has is a pretty hot headed thing to do.

@ Darkwynn: I see your point but again we don't know the backstory, we dont know why they have known eachother for so long and the bad blood could be because they were both in competition over the same market, hence persistent issues? for all we know they could have been buisness partners until one ran over the others cat ???? also, with regards to Romeo's posting, it just comes off as if he's running his mouth, he could have said exactly the same thing in a far more civilized way, or said nothing and just let the courts or the buyers do the talking.

with regards to outrider they could have done the same thing. I think that his response, including the faf about restraining orders was an attempt (not a very good one) at sounding reasoned while tipping public opinion in his favour.

As i've said on the other thread (and especially now that i've seen comparison photos) BF provide a markedly superior product, however outrider is cheaper, therefore, who buys which will probably be decided by a quality/price balance, I paint everything I own to an above table top standard so i'd have to back BF, but my decision would be based entirely on the products. (however I intend to buy niether as niether have a uk distributor and I dont fancy the shipping)

A final point i've noticed, a lot of new faces are appearing to raise opinions in the foam war, opinionated lurkers or friends of the respective distributors? the plot thickens *gasp*

Funny, I didn't know anyone on Dakka was.) I'm sure we may have one somewhere though, I just know them.
You don't need to be a patent lawyer to take part in a discussion.

What I'm finding interesting is the people who are coming onto Dakka, setting up new accounts, and only posting on the BF side of the Foam Wars. I guess the other guy hasn't played his "hire shills" card yet.

If making foam trays could be patented, then Romeo wouldn't be the first to do it. Many other companies made/make foam trays for miniature cases Sabol, GW, Chessex, Reaper, and probably a 100 other companies. Plus cases for guns, photgraphic equipment, medical instruments, musical instruments, etc etc etc.

Now, is it possible Romeo has invented a radically new method and machinery to do it, patented the idea/machine, and now someone else has made the same thing to cut foam? I suppose it's a possibility. In that case, he should just send the guy a cease and desist order.

Sirius42 wrote:@ Cato: I'm not saying romeo does or does not have the right to be annoyed, I dont know enough about either buisness or thier respective histories to comment on that, I was just pointing out to those folk whom argued that he was not hot headed that taking your anger to a public forum in the manner he has is a pretty hot headed thing to do.

@ Darkwynn: I see your point but again we don't know the backstory, we dont know why they have known eachother for so long and the bad blood could be because they were both in competition over the same market, hence persistent issues? for all we know they could have been buisness partners until one ran over the others cat ???? also, with regards to Romeo's posting, it just comes off as if he's running his mouth, he could have said exactly the same thing in a far more civilized way, or said nothing and just let the courts or the buyers do the talking.

with regards to outrider they could have done the same thing. I think that his response, including the faf about restraining orders was an attempt (not a very good one) at sounding reasoned while tipping public opinion in his favour.

As i've said on the other thread (and especially now that i've seen comparison photos) BF provide a markedly superior product, however outrider is cheaper, therefore, who buys which will probably be decided by a quality/price balance, I paint everything I own to an above table top standard so i'd have to back BF, but my decision would be based entirely on the products. (however I intend to buy niether as niether have a uk distributor and I dont fancy the shipping)

A final point i've noticed, a lot of new faces are appearing to raise opinions in the foam war, opinionated lurkers or friends of the respective distributors? the plot thickens *gasp*

The plot indeed does thicken........


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mikhaila wrote:Funny, I didn't know anyone on Dakka was.) I'm sure we may have one somewhere though, I just know them.
You don't need to be a patent lawyer to take part in a discussion.

What I'm finding interesting is the people who are coming onto Dakka, setting up new accounts, and only posting on the BF side of the Foam Wars. I guess the other guy hasn't played his "hire shills" card yet.

If making foam trays could be patented, then Romeo wouldn't be the first to do it. Many other companies made/make foam trays for miniature cases Sabol, GW, Chessex, Reaper, and probably a 100 other companies. Plus cases for guns, photgraphic equipment, medical instruments, musical instruments, etc etc etc.

Now, is it possible Romeo has invented a radically new method and machinery to do it, patented the idea/machine, and now someone else has made the same thing to cut foam? I suppose it's a possibility. In that case, he should just send the guy a cease and desist order.

First off I am no hired gun. Just some one lucky (or unlucky enough) to see this mess first hand. I have been around both people and have seen their character. I was there to see the incident in the store and the follow up to it. And I have seen first hand both products. So do I consider myself very well informed? Yes.

Cato Sicarius wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Is it a actual copy?

Or is merely a competing product?

Having seen both in person it is a bad copy. And a stolen idea.

Tell you what...

Post pictures of both trays (filled), and let us all decide in a poll.

Most likely, it's not close to a copy.

The "stolen idea" bit is completely laughable.
____

neiltj1 wrote:

Cato Sicarius wrote:And a stolen idea.

please it is no more a stolen idea then making after market foam for sabol, and GW cases.

Exactly. Variable foam inserts aren't a new concept at all. I've been able to get foam inserts for over a decade.
____

mikhaila wrote:If making foam trays could be patented, then Romeo wouldn't be the first to do it. Many other companies made/make foam trays for miniature cases Sabol, GW, Chessex, Reaper, and probably a 100 other companies. Plus cases for guns, photgraphic equipment, medical instruments, musical instruments, etc etc etc.

Now, is it possible Romeo has invented a radically new method and machinery to do it, patented the idea/machine, and now someone else has made the same thing to cut foam?

What? The world of foam inserts doesn't revolve around Romeo Flip? Inconceivable!

If it really is a new machine and process, that isn't obviously derivative of existing cutting / control systems, I'll be quite impressed. Shocked, really.

Cato Sicarius wrote:

How do you know there has not been a Cease and Desist letter?

Ooh, this one is easy.

I know because if there WAS a letter, and it was ignored (which it obviously would have been if Outrider is still producing trays), we wouldn;t be discussing who is right and who is wrong over the internet. Men in very expensive suits who charge out the nose by the hour would be discussing it in front of a judge.

Which isn't happening, by the way.


Also, to expand on my "Romeo may want to watch which sleeping dogs he lets lie here" statement from earlier, someone pointed out that BF will produce your foam with a choice of logo on them. One gentleman had the Blood Angels logo on his.

The Blood Angels logo, which is an IP of Games Workshop.

He isn't "ripping Romeo off", he's competing. And since (by the sounds of it) he's doing it for half the price, I forsee a lot of business coming his way.

Bunker wrote:Also, to expand on my "Romeo may want to watch which sleeping dogs he lets lie here" statement from earlier, someone pointed out that BF will produce your foam with a choice of logo on them. One gentleman had the Blood Angels logo on his.

The Blood Angels logo, which is an IP of Games Workshop.

As I posted in the other "foam wars" thread:

BF is definitely stepping on GW IP. Given that Romeo is familiar with licensing, per his experience with MLB bats, one would assume that he should have known to do so. Plus, GW says:

Games Workshop wrote:WHAT YOU CANNOT DO WITH GAMES WORKSHOP'S INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY

If you are using or want to use our intellectual property and you do not have a written license with us, you must not:
- Use Games Workshop's intellectual property in relation to any commercial activity ­ this includes, for example, paying a printer to print some flyers for you, obtaining sponsorship, or selling non-Games Workshop materials using our trademarks.
- Use any of our IP without appropriately crediting the IP and using the appropriate disclaimers in accordance with this policy.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?community=&catId=&categoryId=&pIndex=3&aId=3900002&start=4#

So, to comply, Romeo would have had to have approached GW (i.e. "Legal@games-workshop.co.uk") for usage rights and license fee, because this is clearly commerical use and GW legal clearly states that you can't do that without a license.

Perhaps GW Legal can weigh in here. I'd *love* to know what they say about Romeo copying the BA Logo in direct violation of their IP rules.

Cato Sicarius wrote:

First off I am no hired gun.

You JUST joined Dakka.

You ONLY post in topics about the Battlefoam/Foam Corps. debate.

You sound EXACTLY as angry as Romeo did in his post on BoardGameGeek.

Chrispy wrote:I do like Romeo and the service that battlefoam provides, but the rest of the posts in that thread do make a point. There's no "bootlegging" going on. There's no "copying". You can't patent an idea. The design is original and different from BF's.

One can only patent processes and designs! As long as one uses their own designs that are dissimilar to Battlefoam's or GW's or Sabol's or KR, anyone with scissors and foam could set up their own foam company and compete!

Bunker wrote:

Cato Sicarius wrote:

How do you know there has not been a Cease and Desist letter?

Ooh, this one is easy.

I know because if there WAS a letter, and it was ignored (which it obviously would have been if Outrider is still producing trays), we wouldn;t be discussing who is right and who is wrong over the internet. Men in very expensive suits who charge out the nose by the hour would be discussing it in front of a judge.

Which isn't happening, by the way.


Also, to expand on my "Romeo may want to watch which sleeping dogs he lets lie here" statement from earlier, someone pointed out that BF will produce your foam with a choice of logo on them. One gentleman had the Blood Angels logo on his.

The Blood Angels logo, which is an IP of Games Workshop.

He isn't "ripping Romeo off", he's competing. And since (by the sounds of it) he's doing it for half the price, I forsee a lot of business coming his way.

You could not be more off on all accounts.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

A lot of smart stuff, also:

or selling non-Games Workshop materials using our trademarks.

Like I said, Romeo may want to watch who he threatens with legal action here, GW could easily take him to the cleaners over this.

On a slightly related note, could GW hit BF with a C&D for just using the term "Blood Angels"?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cato Sicarius wrote:

Bunker wrote:

Cato Sicarius wrote:

How do you know there has not been a Cease and Desist letter?

Ooh, this one is easy.

I know because if there WAS a letter, and it was ignored (which it obviously would have been if Outrider is still producing trays), we wouldn;t be discussing who is right and who is wrong over the internet. Men in very expensive suits who charge out the nose by the hour would be discussing it in front of a judge.

Which isn't happening, by the way.


Also, to expand on my "Romeo may want to watch which sleeping dogs he lets lie here" statement from earlier, someone pointed out that BF will produce your foam with a choice of logo on them. One gentleman had the Blood Angels logo on his.

The Blood Angels logo, which is an IP of Games Workshop.

He isn't "ripping Romeo off", he's competing. And since (by the sounds of it) he's doing it for half the price, I forsee a lot of business coming his way.

You could not be more off on all accounts.

Really? Prove me wrong.

Bonus points: do it without being insulting or telling me "how wrong" I am without actually making any points.

Oh yeah, see the post of mine above this one, the part in bold actually shows how right I am

I'm sure that GW could hit battlefoam, but they don't gain anything by restricting what their logo is placed on. It's free marketing for them. The foam is going to be purchased anyway.

However, logos on a website are a no no, because not only would they lose potential customers of people ran out to buy "Battlefoam's Space Marine Trays" but they'd be publicly supporting or affiliated with anything Battlefoam said or did. Which is obviously a poor business practice given Romeo's history of running his mouth.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
What? The world of foam inserts doesn't revolve around Romeo Flip? Inconceivable!

What? The world of internet forums doesn't revolve around JohnHwang? Inconceivable!

Cheers

Actually, part of dakka does revolve around John, as he's been a regular poster and part of the Dakka community for sometime.

Unlike the shills and hired guns on both sides of the foam wars.)

mikhaila wrote:Actually, part of dakka does revolve around John, as he's been a regular poster and part of the Dakka community for sometime.

Unlike the shills and hired guns on both sides of the foam wars.)

Bang Bang

Cato Sicarius wrote:

Sirius42 wrote:I think the reasons for calling Romeo hot headed are about the only thing in this situation that are clear. He's obviously unhappy, but he went a little ott (same with the baseball thing), and all that does is inflame the situation. Hey has anyone noticed that niether of the involved parties has said anything in days?

Put yourself in Romeo's position. He put all sorts of time money and hard work into creating his foam. And then a someone buys it from him, attempts to copy and releases it. If that was your business I imagine you would be pretty mad yourself. And it is not a coincidence that no one is saying anything......

It's called capitalism, or to put it in a more poignant way, Matthew 26:52. Don't like it? Then stop supporting a system where greed is rewarded. Until then, acts like that are not only the order of the day, but to be expected.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mikhaila wrote:Actually, part of dakka does revolve around John, as he's been a regular poster and part of the Dakka community for sometime.

Unlike the shills and hired guns on both sides of the foam wars.)

Sadly true, he has his own cult of personality, much like H.B.M.C. amongst others.

Hello guys,

I'm going to make post on this matter and that will be it. Please take it as truth because I have no reason to lie to you. I don't know any of you so by lying I would only be doing myself injustice.

1. My personal matters with Bryan Wade are just that, personal. I have known of him for many years and nothing good has come from it.

2. I will always fight to protect Battle Foam because I started it from nothing and worked my butt off to make it what it is today. Many people depend on my ability to keep them employed and keep food on their tables. If I don't fight for Battle Foam, who will?

3. I respect each and every one of you. God knows you are all blue collared workers who all busts your butts to make money that you spend on models. I respect that more then anything else so I will always strive to keep you 100% satisfied with our products or your money back.

4. We do have a patent on our cutting system. Not the machines or the foam, but on the process it takes to actually cut the material. This technology is what allows us to cut 1" to 10" deep foam without destroying the product. This process has never been done with these types of machines before. That is why our patent has been excepted and approved.

5. Patents and Copyrights are two totally different fields. When someone goes to your website and copies your idea and sells it to your customers after you created it, that becomes copyright infringement. That is what Mr. Wade is doing with the Space Hulk trays. He is not only violating parts of our patent, but he is in violation of copyrights. That is why GW can put lock downs on the word Space Marine and all artwork that resembles it.

6. We have been working with GW, PP, and FOW since day one of our doors being open. We always ask permission on all parts of our products and website. These discussions are kept private and I will not comment any further on those matters. Simply put, would I be advertising our business on every game forum and pod cast if I was violating GW, PP, or FOW policies?

7. We will always strive to bring you the best product possible. We will always be active in the community and we will always be here to pick up the phone to answer your questions. Please put yourself in our shoes, or better yet my shoes. How would you feel if someone poached your ideas days after you came up with them? What would you do if you spent weeks on painting your models a really cool and original way just to find the local bootlegger at the gamestore copied your idea and bragged he was the inventor?

8. Lastly, I'm here to tell you that we have several new items and projects launching in the upcoming months. These projects and products are coming to life to support your hobby. They are being made possible because of the Dakka communities support and willingness to buy our products. We all thank you for that at Battle Foam, and I personally thank you for being so vocal with your opinions.

Romeo
Battle Foam

I'm sad. I've been saving up to buy one of the battlefoam sets. Though after seeing how Romeo reacts to "competition" and/or criticism makes me very hesitant..

Though all of this interweb drama unfold has given me much good reading on Dakka to get my lurk on with.

So, Thanks you guys!

Nuwisha wrote:

I'm sad. I've been saving up to buy one of the battlefoam sets. Though after seeing how Romeo reacts to "competition" and/or criticism makes me very hesitant..

Though all of this interweb drama unfold has given me much good reading on Dakka to get my lurk on with.

So, Thanks you guys!

The drama can be exciting. On the serious side Battlefoam bags are amazing. I currently own a 1520 and a 216. I have been a GW fanboy since I got into this hobby and have used everything GW. And that includes the GW plastic cases. For less than the cost of my 4 large GW cases I secured myself a custom cut 1520. Not since I purchased it have I had any models break. Multiple people that game at the same store with me also have BF stuff. When any of them have had problems they have contacted the staff and gotten things replaced. Dont let all the shennanigans on here sway your opinion. Ask me......... better yet ask any of the other people on this forum that have purchased his stuff what they think of it. You may decide it is not for you or you may find it is what you are looking for. Good luck and good job on saving......any money I make burns a friggin hole in my pocket

Cato Sicarius wrote:

Nuwisha wrote:

I'm sad. I've been saving up to buy one of the battlefoam sets. Though after seeing how Romeo reacts to "competition" and/or criticism makes me very hesitant..

Though all of this interweb drama unfold has given me much good reading on Dakka to get my lurk on with.

So, Thanks you guys!

The drama can be exciting. On the serious side Battlefoam bags are amazing. I currently own a 1520 and a 216. I have been a GW fanboy since I got into this hobby and have used everything GW. And that includes the GW plastic cases. For less than the cost of my 4 large GW cases I secured myself a custom cut 1520. Not since I purchased it have I had any models break. Multiple people that game at the same store with me also have BF stuff. When any of them have had problems they have contacted the staff and gotten things replaced. Dont let all the shennanigans on here sway your opinion. Ask me......... better yet ask any of the other people on this forum that have purchased his stuff what they think of it. You may decide it is not for you or you may find it is what you are looking for. Good luck and good job on saving......any money I make burns a friggin hole in my pocket

And that was all I was pointing out I did say BF was better then FC and if I could afford it I would buy it, did I not?
I didnt come on here to sell FC trays. I made a comparison cuz I had both trays and people had asked for that. Never did I say FC trays were better.
No I do not know the details of the patents and copy rights. I do know romeo has a patent on how he cuts foam. I know Brian didnt steal it for I have witnessed he catch foam on fire when I worked for foam

Once again I have worked with brain not for him. and never have I gotten a single dollar. I never said anything bad about BF. I almost regret bringing it up as this has been blown out of proportion and I apoligize to Romeo for any hard feelings.

until I know farther about the laws and patents, buy from BF if you can afford it- if not look into other products as I was.

Oh my... Hired guns are plain silly!... people here at dakka can form their own opinions without ugly cheerleaders. If you think your doing a good service then think again, you are just scaring the pigeons.

For each penny wasted from these new and fragile companies on these disputes is a penny less improving service and product... so everyone looses, and thats bad.

As long as I have to pay 42 dollars for a 15dollar product Im not a happy or even just a customer and these foam wars only makes me even less interested on what you guys have to say or sell.

People at dakka have made it so clear that international costs are ridiculous proibitive and you should find a solution for it... if you do that I take my hat and give my money... but if you want to do foamwars then you only get my boot.

Some say they listen to their customers others say they have a cheaper product... I dare you to prove it then

Which isn't happening, by the way.

@ Bunker

We will see. Mr Wade has 30 days and if he is smart he will comply. Maybe you can send him some defense money or help him get a tax id so he can finally report his unclaimed earnings.

Cheers

Well, I'm sure they can sway our opinions for some free swag? If not, I'll just keep waiting for a company to set up shop across the Channel or dare I say, on the continent here.

Nuwisha wrote:

I'm sad. I've been saving up to buy one of the battlefoam sets. Though after seeing how Romeo reacts to "competition" and/or criticism makes me very hesitant..

With respect, I would offer another way of looking at it. I can see where you don't agree with how Romeo handles. Fine. But how much do you really interact with him? How much influence does he have in your life? I would guesstimate that the answer is "Damn little." So does it really matter if you like the guy or not? Are you planning on asking him over to dinner, maybe babysit the kids?

Romeo is, for most here, a possible vendor. Do you care what the person who is selling you a product thinks about you, in an e-business (a medium where customer service takes on very different dynamics, with it's own REAL limits)? How about the guy who changes the oil in your car? If that guy thinks you are a prick, are you going to be upset? How about the cook in the restaurant you patronize? Sure, you don't want to piss that guy off, but most places do you ever even SEE the dude? Yet he brings you food that you eat and feed your family. And you would eat it even if he hated you. Yeah, ignorance taints that example some, but there is still some comparison there.

And some people would really be offended in such situations. And that's fine; I'm not trying to say that there is a right or wrong. It's an opinion. But I think that you should just think abolutit a bit. Does it really matter, in this case, with an e-busniess, if you really like the guy?

For me, it doesnt matter so much if the product is somethign I want. Yeah, I've done business with Romeo. Yeah, I support him. I've never bought battlefoam, but it's not because I think he's a jerk. He's been pleasant with me, treated me well, and he came through for me in the clutch with a deal that was very small and very important to me. I'm not trying to say that all this you read here is smoke and mirrors or just plain lies. I'm saying that I know for fact 2 things: 1) the internet is not where I go for my "facts" regard who is a jackass and who is not. Obvious reasons. 2) He's treated me well, and I will sure as rat feth treat him the same way in return.

Everyone else, make your own calls of course. But don't do yourself the disservice of jumping on some forum hatewagon for some guy who you have never dealt with, never met, and never shook his hand. Some of you have, but others certainly have not. Decide for yourselves; don't let your judgement be a reflexive action.

If you think the product sucks ass for one reason or another, don't buy it. If the product is a good solution for you and will protect your models; then what the hell does Romeo's personality have to do with keeping your minis safe? The quesiton is rhetorical, I don't need or want an answer. Just make sure you conciously agree with why you are making your decision.


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Oh, more text wall for you. What in the name of Donkey Punch feth does GW's IP got to do with us as end customers? Let me shift that a little: GW has proven itself to be MOST capable of enforcing their IP rights. How many projects have we heard tanked or strangled in the cradle because of GW's IP defense?

And GW, this multinational corporation with revenues in the tens of millions a year and a net worth of WHO knows, needs OUR hepl to defend their IP? Really?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!111!!1111111!!!!!!!11

Romeo says he is working with the relevant parties. You know one thing you can infer from that statement that is pretty solid? He ain't workin with us on it, because we are not relevant to it. Frankly, that's between him and GW. Am I saying we can't/shouldn't discuss it? Nah, that's like telling water to be dry. But after seeing some of those posts, I felt that had to be pointed out. Are you really going to let yourself get all hatestormed over something that isn't, really, even your business? Morally, mayhap. But fiscally? feth all.

edited because what the hell happened to my post???

Well, people do make choices were to buy and who to buy from many times not based on service or product... Its all part of the package... How many times you enter a store and dont feel welcomed just because store fella behaviour is not according to your espectations? and you just decide to go elsewere...
I really dont care much about it but I ussually buy more were I feel confortable, and I totally understand these agressive wars turning lots of people off... even if all are nice chaps with great services/ products.

For example when PP guy told not long ago on the official forum to a member STFU I voted with my wallet for some months... sometimes I ignore other times I dont... Miniatures and hobbies are not totally rational to me and have a big slice of emotions involved... even if pure business dont need emotions.