Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

No its not. Army tier operates in a vacuum. Look at blackmoor. His list is what I and most players would consider gak tier. But it works well for him, thats skill. However 99% of players would struggle to win an event with an army like that against people of even skill. Forgiving=tier because it means the most players can win with it. Its like an auto pilot.

Look at it this way. CoD4 you have two assault rifles for examples. Say the M16 and the M14. Anyone can use an M16 well, but the M14 is much harder, more recoil and what not. So therefore the M16 is a higher tier. This isnt to say I didnt slaughter with a silenced M14, but that was skill. As it was much harder to use and less forgiving.

If you define "tier" to mean "usability," then yes, 40k has armies with different "tier" ratings.

Jayden63 wrote:
There is not one unit in the whole codex that breaks the game. People might complain about Rune Priest a little, but seriously. Against any number of different armies, he is no tougher than a standard Librarian.

Since there are ways to stop psychic abilities he doesn't break the game. If there was no way then he would have a power that was outside of the normal realm of 40k. There have been abilities that force removal from the board without invulnerable save off a stat check for awhile now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kuro_khan wrote:Codex creep at it's finest.

Make each codex stronger than the last, and you get a rush of sales because people want to be on top.

People buy new models cause they look awesome. How would you be able to explain the purchase of models that aren't particularly strong in terms of gameplay?

If you think that they just make the last codex a little stronger than the one before it on purpose because someone at GW management is so devious to design this strategem.... well you probably believe in all sorts of conspiracy theories.

If there is true codex creep why are these new codexes not nearly as powerful as 4th edition Chaos Codex? Perhaps most people see the evolution of the game over time and confuse this with a creep in power level. How is it Creep when multiple powerful choices for army selection are removed from each codex?

WC_Brian wrote:
Since there are ways to stop psychic abilities he doesn't break the game.

Unless you play Tau, Necrons, or Chaos, of course.

Kirasu wrote:Cheese is just the battle cry of the inept

If someone somewhere in the world gets beaten by anything than you had better be darn sure that is some cheesy stuff that whooped em.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Polonius wrote:

WC_Brian wrote:
Since there are ways to stop psychic abilities he doesn't break the game.

Unless you play Tau, Necrons, or Chaos, of course.

Yeah but since people don't play those 3 races exclusively then it isn't a power that always goes unanswered. If everyone had access to everything then the game would be pretty boring. Imagine if everyone had all the same guns.

Also none of those races really care all that much about the power(I only ever see Necron Lords on Destroyer Bodies myself). Does it really hurt anything in a big way besides Carnifex?

sry wrong quote


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WarmasterScott wrote:

scifi112233 wrote:tell me if im being stupid but one of the things that killed me (fluff wise) in the New SW and SM codex's was the fact that their psykers could get 2 psychic powers a turn............ I'm not saying its over powered or anything just that 2 psychic powers is a zeetch thing...

I haven't seen anything in the SW codex that lets them use 2 a turn. Aside from Mephiston(BA) I don't know any other SM psyker who can use multiple powers in a turn.

If so than there is a conspiracy at my store because every space marine player i've played says its true and even some non SM players say its true... everyone else just mutters that its cheesy.... they say its like a 50 pt upgrade... can you qoute the rules in the sm and sw codex .. i don't have them

WC_Brian wrote:

Kirasu wrote:Cheese is just the battle cry of the inept

If someone somewhere in the world gets beaten by anything than you had better be darn sure that is some cheesy stuff that whooped em.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Polonius wrote:

WC_Brian wrote:
Since there are ways to stop psychic abilities he doesn't break the game.

Unless you play Tau, Necrons, or Chaos, of course.

Yeah but since people don't play those 3 races exclusively then it isn't a power that always goes unanswered. If everyone had access to everything then the game would be pretty boring. Imagine if everyone had all the same guns.

Also none of those races really care all that much about the power(I only ever see Necron Lords on Destroyer Bodies myself). Does it really hurt anything in a big way besides Carnifex?

I play Tau Exclusively for now. I care about JotWW for the broadsides mainly, though it can cut swathes through any Fire Warriors dismounted as well (sure, it only gets 2-3, but that's a lot more than his bolt pistol would have gotten) but I care about tempest a great deal more. My entire army is jump infantry and skimmers/skimmer mounted infantry, and the power affects nearly the entire board. Nothing quite so fun as taking 4 dangerous terrain tests per crisis suit per turn.

scifi112233 wrote:
sry wrong quote


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WarmasterScott wrote:

scifi112233 wrote:tell me if im being stupid but one of the things that killed me (fluff wise) in the New SW and SM codex's was the fact that their psykers could get 2 psychic powers a turn............ I'm not saying its over powered or anything just that 2 psychic powers is a zeetch thing...

I haven't seen anything in the SW codex that lets them use 2 a turn. Aside from Mephiston(BA) I don't know any other SM psyker who can use multiple powers in a turn.

If so than there is a conspiracy at my store because every space marine player i've played says its true and even some non SM players say its true... everyone else just mutters that its cheesy.... they say its like a 50 pt upgrade... can you qoute the rules in the sm and sw codex .. i don't have them

I don't have the SW codex, but in the Marine codex, the rule is listed under Librarians - Epistolary. Upgrading your librarian to an Epistolary allows him to cast 2 powers per turn. It costs 50 points, and that's all it does.


Plenty of things can cast more than one power per turn. Epistolaries, Tzeench sorcerors, Eldrad and other Eldar psykers, Tigurius. Who cares? You'll have a point of contention once other races can choose Lash of Submission.

scifi112233 wrote:
sry wrong quote


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WarmasterScott wrote:

scifi112233 wrote:tell me if im being stupid but one of the things that killed me (fluff wise) in the New SW and SM codex's was the fact that their psykers could get 2 psychic powers a turn............ I'm not saying its over powered or anything just that 2 psychic powers is a zeetch thing...

I haven't seen anything in the SW codex that lets them use 2 a turn. Aside from Mephiston(BA) I don't know any other SM psyker who can use multiple powers in a turn.

If so than there is a conspiracy at my store because every space marine player i've played says its true and even some non SM players say its true... everyone else just mutters that its cheesy.... they say its like a 50 pt upgrade... can you qoute the rules in the sm and sw codex .. i don't have them

Alright well at least from the sw side they're being legit..
A rune priest has 2 psychic powers from the list below, chosen when the army is picked. He can only use one power each turn unless he has been upgraded to a master of the runes, in which case he may use 2 powers. All rune priest psychic powers are used following the rules given in the main Warhammer 40k rulebook. pg 37 top left corner..

Some guys like mephiston can use multiple powers because he uses some in attack phase, movement etc. Without this upgrade the only guys that can do this kinda crazy psykerness is eldrad and ahriman of the 1k sons. They use 3! Sorry scifi they're legit. I will check my friends sm codex as well later 2day.

not complaining its just i always thought it was an eldar/zeetch thing

I care about JotWW for the broadsides mainly, though it can cut swathes through any Fire Warriors dismounted as well (sure, it only gets 2-3, but that's a lot more than his bolt pistol would have gotten) but I care about tempest a great deal more.

Ok I get the fire warrior deal but why are the broadsides part of the worry. Jaws doesn't hurt vehicles unless you mean as in your cargo in which this would make more sense. Well medusa will do more to your troops then a line.

How thick is the line you draw from the rune priest for JOTWW?

edit reason: typo

scifi112233 wrote:How think is the line you draw from the rune priest for JOTWW?

Well since I'm the only wolf player at this time at our club and I don't use jaws(I think it's not worth it) we haven't had a formal verdict at the club. Though if I ever used it say with the stormcaller I would prob use the measuring tape on its side or bring a piece of string.

WarmasterScott wrote:I care about JotWW for the broadsides mainly, though it can cut swathes through any Fire Warriors dismounted as well (sure, it only gets 2-3, but that's a lot more than his bolt pistol would have gotten) but I care about tempest a great deal more.

Ok I get the fire warrior deal but why are the broadsides part of the worry. Jaws doesn't hurt vehicles unless you mean as in your cargo in which this would make more sense. Well medusa will do more to your troops then a line.

Broadsides are an infantry battlesuit that has twin-linked railguns, and is by far the best option for anti-mech in the Tau list. At I 2, they're JotWW bait.

Sure, there are a lot of things that chew up FW, it's a given. But a Medusa I can put a railgun round through and end that threat. Without a solid mid-board assault threat (I maintain Kroot only truely shine assaulting from the flank, or out of a big forest terrain.) there is no Tau Ability to gank independant characters attached to a squad, which means the rune priest tends to be a lingering threat (smart players will manuver so that a RP with a nearly killed squad can leave that squad and join a new squad in his turn.)

Kroot Loops wrote:

WarmasterScott wrote:I care about JotWW for the broadsides mainly, though it can cut swathes through any Fire Warriors dismounted as well (sure, it only gets 2-3, but that's a lot more than his bolt pistol would have gotten) but I care about tempest a great deal more.

Ok I get the fire warrior deal but why are the broadsides part of the worry. Jaws doesn't hurt vehicles unless you mean as in your cargo in which this would make more sense. Well medusa will do more to your troops then a line.

Broadsides are an infantry battlesuit that has twin-linked railguns, and is by far the best option for anti-mech in the Tau list. At I 2, they're JotWW bait.

Sure, there are a lot of things that chew up FW, it's a given. But a Medusa I can put a railgun round through and end that threat. Without a solid mid-board assault threat (I maintain Kroot only truely shine assaulting from the flank, or out of a big forest terrain.) there is no Tau Ability to gank independant characters attached to a squad, which means the rune priest tends to be a lingering threat (smart players will manuver so that a RP with a nearly killed squad can leave that squad and join a new squad in his turn.)

Most sw squads are only ten guys at best so if he tried to hide the rp just pour alot of fw shots into them. Due to the allocating rule you would hit the priest a few times each round. He's pretty soft. Ok I know what a broadside is, now I have a name to go with that darn thing. My friend likes em to mess with my mech stuff hard. Oh and I doubt a rp will get close enough to a rail gun user unless he drops him in with a drop pod.

WarmasterScott wrote:
Most sw squads are only ten guys at best so if he tried to hide the rp just pour alot of fw shots into them. Due to the allocating rule you would hit the priest a few times each round. He's pretty soft. Ok I know what a broadside is, now I have a name to go with that darn thing. My friend likes em to mess with my mech stuff hard. Oh and I doubt a rp will get close enough to a rail gun user unless he drops him in with a drop pod.

Guy at the store does this, drop pods a single RP in, and JotWW the broadsides. Figures it's a pretty good use of 135-145 points to take out a 283 point squad that represents about 75% of my anti-mech capabilities, and 90% of my AV 14 capabilities, in a 1500 point game.

Here's the problem, FoF against the rune priest squad, 24 shots kill 2-3 marines. The 8 marines left rapid fire the FW back, and they kill 3-4 FW, then JotWW removes 2-3 more; you just got outshot. Plus a RP sent out to maintain tempest generally stays mid- board to maximize coverage, and if I'm shooting at him, I'm not shooting at the assault forces barreling towards my forces, which means I've lost.

Its just a good army book there are obviously some very underpointed items ( Canis Wolfborn WTC 185 points).

The whole army as a whole though doesnt have anything to stand out and say I am broken.

Here is a break down;

HQ
Disadvantages : minimum buy in of 100 points , taking multiples defintiely reduces the overall ability of your army to perform. Expensive HQs that overall have very little effect on the game as a whole.
There is no wolf lord that says : I give fleet, I give you the ability to take bikes as troops.
The one wolf lord that does this is Logan at a steep buy in at that.

Great I can take Canis and take wolfs as troops; which is good cheap throw away units, but they cannot sore or contest.

Go ahead and take 4 Wolf lords or whatever on Thunderwolves. You are going to be so outnumbered to not have an affect on the game at all.


Elites 0-3
Again you have 1 unit that if you want to have wolfguard you have to purchase so now its 0-2

Now look ; You have 2 choices. Wolfguard scouts are awesome wooooo. They are its a fantastic unit with a great ability.

Dreadnoughts are great as well. being able to always hit on 3s is pretty excellent.
Troops
Greyhunters are one of the best troop choices in the game. Prolly not the best but pretty damn close.

Fast Attack
Thunderwolf Calvary

Wow these guys are great , wait they have some pretty strong disadvantages.

Leadership 8

No real way to increase this without taking a wolflord on a thunderwolf mount.

Awesome well theyre gonna need a reroll so go ahead and take that Saga of Majesty.

No real antitank;

They do not with their base options have the ability to assault a vehicles occupants by blowing the vehicle up.

Yes, gret they can get plasma pistols.



h. Support:

Long Fangs small unit number and dirt cheap heavy bolters. Looks great. Still have leadership nine.

1 plasma cannon shot or just multiple fire salvos will reduce the unit to nothing.

awesome. i paud 110 points fired 18 heavy bolter shots and then next turn was torn apart simply because I had no ablative wounds.



The Wolf code is a good solid codex but misses some obvious high marks the space marine codex has.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Combat Tactics is a incredibly strong ability Counter Attack is nice if people are assaulting you. However nothing sucks worse than being shot at then assaulted.

Hollismason wrote:Its just a good army book there are obviously some very underpointed items ( Canis Wolfborn WTC 185 points).

The whole army as a whole though doesnt have anything to stand out and say I am broken.

Not broken, no. They have plenty of awesome stuff though. SM are not better, they are merely different. However your complaints, or perhaps contention for downsides, seem ludicrous when you start comparing your army to other forces than SM.

Here is a break down;

HQ
Disadvantages : minimum buy in of 100 points , taking multiples defintiely reduces the overall ability of your army to perform. Expensive HQs that overall have very little effect on the game as a whole.
There is no wolf lord that says : I give fleet, I give you the ability to take bikes as troops.
The one wolf lord that does this is Logan at a steep buy in at that.

HQ's are expensive for most armies by the time you get them kitted out. Your special characters may be expensive, but rightly so. Logan has what, three or four USRs, and he gets to pick which one to use each round? Damn right he better be expensive.

Great I can take Canis and take wolfs as troops; which is good cheap throw away units, but they cannot sore or contest

Cry me a river. None of my special characters let me take anything else as troops. All they do is limit my FoC or give the Tau army a CC USR if it dies... after potentially causing the army to flee off the board.

Go ahead and take 4 Wolf lords or whatever on Thunderwolves. You are going to be so outnumbered to not have an affect on the game at all.

The ability to take 4 HQ is not designed to let you take 4 of 'the best' HQ's, but to allow you to be flexible with them. For instance, you very rarely seem to see Weird Boyz or SAG in Ork armies, because you pretty much need a warboss and a KFF mek. If you could take four, it would allow you to take the neccesary bits, and then the fun bits.

Elites 0-3
Again you have 1 unit that if you want to have wolfguard you have to purchase so now its 0-2

Yep. 1 elite troop that you can use to bolster up to 6 troop selections. Sounds pretty sweet to me.

Now look ; You have 2 choices. Wolfguard scouts are awesome wooooo. They are its a fantastic unit with a great ability.

Dreadnoughts are great as well. being able to always hit on 3s is pretty excellent.

Comparetively, I have Crisis Suits and Stealth Suits. Crisis Suits are great, Stealth suits, not so much, unless you make them a SMT. Cost for an effective SMT? ~290 points

Troops
Greyhunters are one of the best troop choices in the game. Prolly not the best but pretty damn close.

No argument there. At only 5 more points than a Firewarrior, they are excellent. Not to mention the FW pretty much have to take a transport that costs at least 70 points more than a Rhino.

Fast Attack
Thunderwolf Calvary

Wow these guys are great , wait they have some pretty strong disadvantages.

Leadership 8

No real way to increase this without taking a wolflord on a thunderwolf mount.

Hey Awesome. So their weakpoint is that they have a leadership higher than most of my army.

Awesome well theyre gonna need a reroll so go ahead and take that Saga of Majesty.

Oh right, lets not forget how awesome these saga things are.

No real antitank;

They do not with their base options have the ability to assault a vehicles occupants by blowing the vehicle up.

Yes, gret they can get plasma pistols.

I, on the other hand, never have the option to assault troops in the vehicle that was just blown up, unless it's full of IG without power weapons.

h. Support:

Long Fangs small unit number and dirt cheap heavy bolters. Looks great. Still have leadership nine.

1 plasma cannon shot or just multiple fire salvos will reduce the unit to nothing.

awesome. i paud 110 points fired 18 heavy bolter shots and then next turn was torn apart simply because I had no ablative wounds.

Awesome, my Crisis Suits are max unit size of three, and are vulnerable to the same thing happeing to them. They can put out more fire, yes, but cost more.

The Wolf code is a good solid codex but misses some obvious high marks the space marine codex has.

Because if they had everything the SM had, plus the SW stuff, then there would be no question of cheese. There are a few things in the codex I disagree with (mainly psychic powers), but on the whole it's not too bad.

SW have it in spades over Tau though. Drop pod something in their face to force them to concentrate fire for round 1, and your TWC will most likely be in charge range for turn 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Combat Tactics is a incredibly strong ability Counter Attack is nice if people are assaulting you. However nothing sucks worse than being shot at then assaulted.

Well I mean your arguments are very sound within a dicussion of Tau vs SW ; I just don't recall speaking of that discussion.


I am talking in comparison with space marine army book and you are argueing with me about Orcs and Gobbos vs Dwarfs in fantasy.

No, I'm arguing the strengths of SW in the overall topic. By only comparing them to other strong codex it paints a more balanced picture, and while I don't think SW are broken or extremely cheesy, by comparing them to a weaker codex, you can perhaps see where some of the drama comes from. When the downsides of your army is still better than many of the upsides of my army, it paints an entirely different picture.

Thats literally comparing apples versus oranges.

Fair enough, but it's apples and oranges that play in the same fruit punch, and are supposed to be fairly balanced.

Hollismason wrote:Thats literally comparing apples versus oranges.

Um, comparing any two codices is doing the same thing.

While some are more similar to each other than another pair of codices might be, they're still different.

Maybe, we should be comparing and contrasting; looking for the differences rather than just the similarities.

Kroot Loops wrote:Fair enough, but it's apples and oranges that play in the same fruit punch, and are supposed to be fairly balanced.

So compare Tau to Dark Angels.

Honestly, I do not think Tau are that bad. Take plasma/missile suits, two squads of Path Finders, 6-9 Broadsides, and Kroot, Kroot, Kroot.

Twolf Cav die to double toughness rail shots to the face and Rhinos should be stopped at about midfield, letting you JSJ. The huge expense of storm shields in large amounts in the SW codex should make most units vulnerable to a proliferation of AP2 in the shooting phase, and low leadership can even make pinning viable.

sourclams wrote:So compare Tau to Dark Angels.

Honestly, I do not think Tau are that bad.

Tau aren't unwinnable. You must be very precise in their deployment, and really whether they have a chance of winning the game will be decided by round 2. With all the ways coming out to shorten the board, Shooting armies that don't have the numbers and power of IG are falling behind.

Take plasma/missile suits, two squads of Path Finders, 6-9 Broadsides, and Kroot, Kroot, Kroot.

Plasma and missile suits, yes, that has always been a strength for Tau. Setting aside for a moment that two pathfinder squads and 9 broadsides are over 1200 points by themselves (and use all your Heavy FOC), you simply can't take that many broadsides, they are too slow. Deep striking, or even worse, drop podding armies will cackle with glee to see all your railguns are easy pickings. This is why a lot of people don't even use them and take three hammerheads, despite the broadsides better performance against vehicles. Additionally, you don't want all broadsides because they can't pie plate.

Against SW, you better be taking max size Kroot squads. Since they get counter-charge, the kroot will recieve a lot of attacks before the I 3 kroot go, so you'll need to max out on hounds. And of course since Kroot don't get grenades, assaulting through any terrain except forest or jungle, means that they'll all go dead last. And lets not forget that SW GH are still BS 4, meaning they can rapid fire to inflict massive casualties on the un-armored Kroot, and then recieve their charge at no penalty with counter-charge.

Twolf Cav die to double toughness rail shots to the face

Don't you have a Saga that grants Eternal Warrior?

and Rhinos should be stopped at about midfield, letting you JSJ.

Tempest+JSJ= 4 dangerous terrain test, per jump suit, per turn

The huge expense of storm shields in large amounts in the SW codex should make most units vulnerable to a proliferation of AP2 in the shooting phase, and low leadership can even make pinning viable.

You don't need to put SS on everything, just the units that are going to close the quickest. Tau can not ignore a unit of TWC charging across the board with SS to shoot at foot sloggers behind them, it just doesn't work. SS are one of the worst things in the game imo, it killed all need for tactics, and just became the 'I haz a 3+ save against everything' walk down the middle of the board gear, but that's a little off topic.

Again, I don't think the SW are cheese (Ok, Wolf Banner is kind of cheese), but I am saying they have significant advantages over other armies, Especially armies without defense against psychic powers (Do Orks have any defense against psykers?) although it is likely more a topic for the existence of codex creep or tiered armies discussions going on elsewhere.

Honestly the more I look at it and the more I go over it and see it played I find the codex overall subpar when compared to CSM, SM, etc...


The Space Marine codex really still in my view stands head and shoulders above the wolf codex.


Sure there are some great units incredible units but overll it still leave you feeling " well now what are my options".


Mechanized Wolves :

Wht are you going to take?

Greyhunters for sure : 3 to 4 fantastic choice.

If you want a Decent CC guy in that unit its gotta drop to nine with one special though.

Now you have a wolfguard which minimum your gonna have to have 3.

Thats an Elite Slot down.


Well what about dreadnoughts
Okay let's take one of those

1 more elite slot down

gak, well need some mechanized fire support
Let's take Some MM landspeeders coool. Awesome unit.

What I am getting at is yes there are fantatic units but they compete with other units that woul otherwise in other lots provide synergy to the list.


The Space MArine Codex though really beats the wolf codex down on army composition.

Space Marine Captain Khan on a Bike
Space Marine Techmarine on a bike

Great I can have bikes as troops and 6 Dreadnoughts to play with.


All for a cost maybe 30 percent more than Logan grimnar at 285 points who gives you the ability to take Wolfguard as Troops. If you dont take Khan it literally is 20 points more.


Let's look though at Mechanized for Marines

Space Marine Techmarine

10 Terminators split w/ Redeemer
2 Dreadnoughts
Troops
3 Tacticals
F. Attck
Landspeeders
H. Support
Lndraider
Dreadnought
Dreadnought


4 Dreadnoughts 2 Landraiders ; 3 Tactical Squads etc. etc..

GH squad with MotW and a Wolf Banner thing are pretty beastly in CC, Watched a SW army steam roll a BA army with Dante and... The apothecary guy, whatever his name is. The SW army was just 4 GH squads, RP, Long Fang Squad, LR, 2 Rhinos, Predator, Vindicator, as far as I could see. Each GH squad had a Banner, flamer, melta, MotW and PF.

Hollismason wrote:

The Space MArine Codex though really beats the wolf codex down on army composition.


Space Marine Techmarine

10 Terminators split w/ Redeemer
2 Dreadnoughts
Troops
3 Tacticals
F. Attck
Landspeeders
H. Support
Lndraider
Dreadnought
Dreadnought


4 Dreadnoughts 2 Landraiders ; 3 Tactical Squads etc. etc..

Eh, you're trying to wedge Space Wolves into the Marine codex and, no surprise, they don't out-Marine Marines. Your list also dies pretty hard versus any sort of mech IG/Eldar/Dark Eldar; it's a Big Rock list and against Paper armies you have huge problems.

Look at the builds that they can do that Marines simply don't perform as well at:

2x Rune Priest in Termie Armor
Razorback GH squadx4 (flamer or melta, MotW)
Lone Wolf with Chain Fist/SS
Dread in Drop Pod
18 Long Fangs with 15 Missiles
2*3 MM/HF Speeders
10 Fenrisian Wolves

Or

Canis
Rune Priest
Wolves x15
Wolves x15
2x GH Rhino dual melta, MotW
2x IST in Long Fang Razorback
18 Long Fangs with 15 Missiles
2x Twolf Cavx4, SS/PF


That's far more anti-psychic and long range shooting than Marines have got. 4 heavy bolters, 15 missile launchers, Lightning/Jaws/Tempest from Priests sitting in Fenrisian Wolf wound piles, 7 multi meltas/heavy flamers. If it gets first turn against the list you posted, the Speeders are basically dead with enough shots left over to put the hurt on Dreadnoughts. The Dreadnought shows up and starts pot-shotting Land Raiders. Razorback GH squads are pretty deadly in a standoff shoot-you fight and in a close combat scrum. The Lone Wolf can simply run and royally mess up any walkers or vehicle squadrons. Speeders, of course, put the hurt on any vehicles, and your opponent is going to be hard pressed to take them down before they do it with cheap Missile Fangs plunking all the light armor on the table.

Marines don't tend to do cheap heavy weapons or fast assault armies very well because their options are pretty expensive (Terminators almost auto-require Land Raiders, for example). Wolves can do both well, or even both at the same time. Against either army, it's quite likely that on turn 2, 2 of your 3 troop choices will be dead simply because Fen Wolves and Twolf Cav are that fast, and 15 missile launchers are that reliable at killing armor 11. A pile of attacks, Rending, and Canis makes assaulting a difficult proposition even with your Ass Terms, and the general speed of everything in the list means you have one shooting phase to cripple the "important" stuff before your guys really start dying hard.